Understanding safest multi-seat configurations using LATCH / seat belts / etc

[amldaley]

I realize I am teetering on being a PIA on this topic but I am having a hard time understanding this and making decisions.

The below assumes installing a FF convertible and a RF infant seat with one outboard and one center.

If a car has two sets of LATCH anchors, one in each outboard position, and use of the center space is allowed, however, it would then require using a non-standard LATCH positioning, using one of each of the outboard sets (in my car, the spacing is 18 inches vs 11), what do you do with the other seat(s) you would install in the outboard positions? Or if you use the two outboard on one side, then the center seat gets a seatblet and then one LATCH from the other side?

I want to make sure I am interpreting this correctly
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOAFSN/~MUS~LEN/41/10fsnog4e.pdf PAGE 152

For example, if you have an infant seat and a convertible, you HAVE use two LATCH anchors (if the combined weight exceeds 48 lbs) for the convertible AND the seatbelt and install the infant seat install with JUST a seatbelt?

Or if in center seat position, seatbelt and one LATCH from the other side? Is it safe to use just one LATCH when also using the seatbelt install (for a RF infant seat) or is it safer to JUST use the seatbelt and not the one available LATCH.

I have been so spoiled with DD1 using LATCH that I am sort of nervous about just using the seatbelts. It just seems to me that LATCH was invented to be better than seatbelt installs.

Please help me understand!

[TwoBees]

I'm a bit confused. I'm pretty certain you cannot use LATCH and a seatbelt install together. It must be one or the other. Also, LATCH is not necessarily safer that a seatbelt install. It was designed to make getting a tight, correct install easier. However, a correctly and tightly installed seat installed with the seatbelt is just as safe.

ETA: I get a login error when accessing that link. Can you C&P the info instead?

[KrisM]

Your link requires a log in.

You can not use half a LATCH by only using 1 lower anchor. You use either the seatbelt or the LATCH (both anchors) to install. Both are equally as safe, but LATCH can be easier to install. LATCH was made to make it easier to install, but is only safer because people use it better. A tight seatbelt install is just as safe.

If your car and your carseat both allow non-standard spacing of LATCH and borrowing of LATCH to use in the center, you can do that. But, most cars do not allow borrowing outboard anchors to install in the center. And, I think only Britax allows non-standard LATCH spacing, but I may be wrong on that.

You can't have 2 carseats using one LATCH anchor either. So, if you're using one outboard for that seat, you can't also use it in the center.

I would install outboard with LATCH and center with seatbelt. If you need more room, sometimes installing outboard with the seatbelt moves the carseat towards the door a bit making it easier to get a seat in the center, too.

I would think that if you are able to borrow the outboard anchors for a center install, that the seatbelt outboard would be covered up by that center seat or the straps for the LATCH making it near impossible to use the outboard seats at all.

[o_mom]

I think you said you have a Fusion? I don't know what year, so I looked up the 2009. I'm guessing you are looking at the chart of ways to install the seats. On there, each box that is checked is one possible way to install, not that you need to use all of them. Also, the Fusion allows borrowing of the inner anchors to install in the center IF the carseat manufacturer allows, but if you do that, you cannot use LATCH to install the outboard positions. Also, as Kris pointed out, the LATCH strap may then overlap the outboard seatbelts so you couldn't install there. You cannot attach two seats to the same anchor at all.

It's really hard to say over the internet what the best thing to do it. I think in your case, if you can find a good tech in your area, that would be best. If your mom (or was it MIL) is not coming right away, you could just install both seats outboard until you can get with someone. ETA: I would start with this listing to see if you can find someone in your area: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=574704

The Fusion backseat is not super contoured (my parents have one), so it should be possible to put the infant seat outboard with LATCH and the older one in the FF seat (is it a Boulevard?) center with the seatbelt. If it really doesn't work, then the infant seat center with the seatbelt and the other seat outboard with either seatbelt or LATCH (not both).

[amldaley]

Weird about the link...it is just to the .pdf file for the Ford Fusion 2010 owners manual and I have never registered for the site nor does it require a log in from me. It shows a place to log in, but I don't have to enter any info there.

It is basically just a chart that shows that for a FF seat with a seat & child combined weight over 48lbs, it should be installed with LATCH and safety belt and top tether. (Meaning the lower anchors are not enough for the weight).

I am trying to understand if this means that the convertible, based on weight exceeding 48 lbs with rider, uses the LATCHes and that means the infant seat MUST use only a seatbelt install? And if so, if the infant seat is using a seatbelt install, can I also hook in to just one other LATCH, NOT used by the other car seat (so....if the infant seat is in the center, it would be seatbelt installed and could it also use the closest, interior LATCH of the other outboard set - NOT the one the convertible is installed with)?

Also, I keep reading and it has been repeatedly suggested to me that it would be safer to put the RF infant seat outboard and the FF convertible center. Does it make any difference in that scenarior if the RF infant seat can only be belted with no LATCH (as far as safety goes...)

Also, given that FF convertible is a Blvd with SIP, WHY is is safer for the infant seat to be outboard???????????????

[o_mom]

Weird about the link...it is just to the .pdf file for the Ford Fusion 2010 owners manual and I have never registered for the site nor does it require a log in from me. It shows a place to log in, but I don't have to enter any info there.

It is basically just a chart that shows that for a FF seat with a seat & child combined weight over 48lbs, it should be installed with LATCH and safety belt and top tether. (Meaning the lower anchors are not enough for the weight).

I am trying to understand if this means that the convertible, based on weight exceeding 48 lbs with rider, uses the LATCHes and that means the infant seat MUST use only a seatbelt install? And if so, if the infant seat is using a seatbelt install, can I also hook in to just one other LATCH, NOT used by the other car seat (so....if the infant seat is in the center, it would be seatbelt installed and could it also use the closest, interior LATCH of the other outboard set - NOT the one the convertible is installed with)?

Also, I keep reading and it has been repeatedly suggested to me that it would be safer to put the RF infant seat outboard and the FF convertible center. Does it make any difference in that scenarior if the RF infant seat can only be belted with no LATCH (as far as safety goes...)

Also, given that FF convertible is a Blvd with SIP, WHY is is safer for the infant seat to be outboard???????????????

:hug: So confusing. I have been cursing Ford for ever coming up with that chart. The chart represents all the acceptable ways to install a given seat. They are not meant to show that you use all of them at once.

The 48 lb limit only reflects the weight of the child, not the child+restraint, so if your older one is under 48 lbs, you can use LATCH (lower anchors + top tether) or seatbelt+top tether, but not both together. If she is over 48 lbs, you must use only the seatbelt + top tether to install and not LATCH

The infant seat, can be installed with either LATCH (lower anchors only) or seatbelt - again, one or the other, not both. You should not use only one lower anchor.

Neither option (LATCH or seat belt) is safer, they are just different and one may work better than the other.

As far as the baby outboard - basically, being rear-facing offers much more protection than being forward-facing. In side-impacts, in particular, it is up to 5x safer. To put it another way, the forward-facing child is up to 5 times more likely to sustain a serious injury or death compared to a rear-facing child. However, center is safer than outboard, so by putting that forward-facing child center, you are hopefully evening out those odds a bit. This applies to LATCH or seat belt installations as they are considered equivalent as long as you can get a good install.

HTH! Please let us know if you have more questions - we'll get it worked out!

[amldaley]

:hug: So confusing. I have been cursing Ford for ever coming up with that chart. The chart represents all the acceptable ways to install a given seat. They are not meant to show that you use all of them at once.

The 48 lb limit only reflects the weight of the child, not the child+restraint, so if your older one is under 48 lbs, you can use LATCH (lower anchors + top tether) or seatbelt+top tether, but not both together. If she is over 48 lbs, you must use only the seatbelt + top tether to install and not LATCH

The infant seat, can be installed with either LATCH (lower anchors only) or seatbelt - again, one or the other, not both. You should not use only one lower anchor.

Neither option (LATCH or seat belt) is safer, they are just different and one may work better than the other.

As far as the baby outboard - basically, being rear-facing offers much more protection than being forward-facing. In side-impacts, in particular, it is up to 5x safer. To put it another way, the forward-facing child is up to 5 times more likely to sustain a serious injury or death compared to a rear-facing child. However, center is safer than outboard, so by putting that forward-facing child center, you are hopefully evening out those odds a bit. This applies to LATCH or seat belt installations as they are considered equivalent as long as you can get a good install.

HTH! Please let us know if you have more questions - we'll get it worked out!

THANK YOU. THANK YOU! THANK. YOU. That chart, combined with reading the install manuals for Graco and Britax, had me soooo confused. I was starting to think I might just sell the Fusion to avoid the issue!!!!!!!!!!!

[KrisM]

Boy, that chart is odd. I did find it. I see why you are confused! I am too! So, o_mom, what does the column titled "Safety belt and LATCH lower anchors and top tether anchor)" mean? There are already columns for full LATCH, LATCH with lower only, Safety belt and top tether, and Safety belt only. I can't figure out what that other one actually means, if not saying to use both the safety belt and the LATCH!

[o_mom]

Boy, that chart is odd. I did find it. I see why you are confused! I am too! So, o_mom, what does the column titled "Safety belt and LATCH lower anchors and top tether anchor)" mean? There are already columns for full LATCH, LATCH with lower only, Safety belt and top tether, and Safety belt only. I can't figure out what that other one actually means, if not saying to use both the safety belt and the LATCH!


Did I mention how much I hate that chart? :hysterical:

While Ford does allow it, I don't know of any child restraint manufacturer that also allows the use of both. The consensus among techs seemed to be that they put it there in case sometime in the future, some seats allowed it, but right now, AFAIK, none do.

[amldaley]

Thank you, *both of you*, for helping me feel slightly less insane about this. I was up until 1:00 am reading about car seats and picked up again at about 6:00 am this morning and I just COULD NOT reason this out!

I just have to come to terms now with putting DD2 outboard as I really liked being able to sit right next to DD1 when she was in her infant seat on longer trips. I would pump and then bottle feed her. When we pulled over to nurse, I just pulled her from her seat, nursed, and popped her right back in.

But I am convinced on the safety of the configuration of RF outboard, FF in board and besides, it will be easier to load DD2 in and out closer to the door.