Bystander Rights!? Or what to do when people in line next to you wig out . . .

[sste]

Hi everyone, back from a great disney trip - - highly rec this early Feb window & a huge thumbs-up for Jedi training (very sweet to my 4 year old who to my shock managed to face down a six foot darth rather than running away). Also, by way of a mini-trip report and beyond the obvious contenders, we really loved the Beauty & the Beast musical at HS and the polynesian where we stayed is now showing disney movies on the beach every night a 7pm. And strongly rec. the latest breakfast seating for Cindy's royal table - - we were not rushed at all.

So, my question, is what do you do when you are in a long line and the family in front of you goes somewhat nuts on their kids in a way this is very upsetting to onlookers? We were in the line for Cinderella's Royal table and the mom in front of us had a protracted session of yelling at her kids, smacking her preschooler full on in the face with a magazine, threatening them, dragging her toddler son across the entire floor of the room by his (dislocated?) arm, and slapping. I am sympathetic to stressed parents. But this was different- - awful and lasted at least 10 minutes (probably more but at last their names were called) and showed no consideration for the magical time of any of the people crowded around them in line!!

I didn't feel like I could offer to help - -her DH was standing right there acting like he didn't know her and quite frankly this woman was out of control and I was worried for my own safety. And going to the end of the line and waiting another 20 minutes was not an option.

So, has anyone experienced this? Do you get a cast member? What would you do?

[TwinFoxes]

How awful. I think the only option other than do nothing is get a cast member. I would not want my kids to see a crazy lady start yelling at me for speaking up to her. My kids would freak I think. Although they'd probably be really confused at what was going on too. I probably would have taken DDs somewhere to get away and left my poor DH standing in line until our name was called. That's probably when I'd get a cast member...but if it was as bad as you say they probably saw it. Maybe another guest complaining would spur them to action though. It's really a tough situation.

I'm glad you had fun over all. :)

[mikala]

Oh wow. My heart is breaking for those little kids because you have to assume that whatever she's doing in public is exponentially worse behind closed doors.

[sste]

I did feel terribly for the kids - - esp. the older girls getting smacked who were all dressed up in their princess attire. I hope I didn't sound like only my bystander feelings counted! It is just that I grudgingly have to admit that that mom has every legal right to behave in that manner. It was hard for me to get a read on the mom - - the impression I had was that her and her husband did not have alot of money and she had three kids and had gone to that bippity boppity boutique and I think the financial stress may have been part of what pushed her over the edge . . . that is the dark side of the whole cinderella royal table experience. Also they seemed young but not super young.

We did have one of us take DS away to look at various things in the castle anteroom, it was just hard to do as the line snakes in a very people-congested way so there wasn't alot of open space to go to. And there would have been no way to do it in some of the other lines.

I wonder if cast members receive training in crisis de-escalation!

[Uno-Mom]

I don't know...the way you describe it with the hitting...it sounds like it crosses the line into child abuse. Hitting in the face is child abuse. Maybe it came across as more intense than it actually was.

[sste]

Well, the hitting in the face was with the magazine.

The slapping was more at the shoulders and arms.

The dragging the toddler ten feet by his forearm was the most likely to cause actual damage.

I guess I am not clear on what is child abuse but my (uninformed) understanding was that it had to be very, very bad to qualify as actionable child abuse - - more in the category of punching, bruising the face, burning, breaking bones, causing internal damage. Is that right?

Let me be clear I have never laid a finger on my kids. Never. So I am not advocating her behavior. But my understanding was that it fell into the must-mind-my-own-business category.

[BabyBearsMom]

I would have had DH stay in line to hold our spots and taken my kids away. I would never want my children to witness that. When I was away, I would alert an employee to intervene with the woman. Although in reality, I know my DH would not be able to stop himself from intervening if he thought the kids were in danger. But I would be scared that she would take her anger for me out on her poor children.

Even if it isn't child abuse, I never want my kids to see that kind of violence. My SIL spanks her children, and I always take DD out of the room when I realize that is about to happen. We always tell DD that no one in our family hits and no one in our family gets hit, so she isn't supposed to hit other people and if someone ever hits her she is to tell me immediately. I think she would be terrified if she saw her cousin getting spanked.

[Uno-Mom]

Oh, don't worry! Nothing you wrote made me think you condoned what she did or took it lightly! You were in an awful spot.

I'm on a work break right now so I can't look up the legal definition, probably varies by state anyway. The legal definition does vary, too, by protected population (kids vs seniors vs people with disabilities, etc). My mandatory reporter training is all in the disability field so I'm not sure how the rules read with kids. I think it's still somewhat subjective but I would have probably reported this because it was sustained, could have caused serious injury (the dislocated arm) and she struck the child in a sensitive area, with an object. The picture you paint makes me imagine that I'd have genuine concern that the child could sustain injury, which is my standard when I don't know the law.

Don't get me wrong! I don't over react to that normal-stressed parent-losing-it situation, either. This sounds way more intense than that and it obviously upset you to witness.

I'm really glad you brought this up because it made.me realize my knowledge is spotty in this area! I deal with abuse matters all too frequently in my work but that's all under a more specialized abuse definition, if that makes sense?

So wow, how did you process the situation with your kids? I bet they were upset.

[sste]

Sorry, I think my follow-up post came out more stridently than I intended! I am just a little rattled from this experience.

Thankfully DS did not see this - - we took him over to the armored knight and when we were positively stuck with these people in an doorway/opening he weirdly did not see. I think it is so far outside of his normal experience that his eye just did not catch it. And he was pretty excited about Cinderella. DD is so young that we just held her and turned her away. I am probably the most traumatized!

[egoldber]

I just saw this. I have definitely seen stuff like this (although not quite that bad) at WDW before. DH and I have a little joke that one of the "great" things about WDW is that no matter how poorly our kids behave or how poorly we react as parents, it won't be the worst thing seen at WDW that day. :o

I think that WDW can be very stressful for some families. Like you say, with several kids at CRT and the BBB experience, that family could have been spending almost $1000 for just that morning alone. I think that for some people it just overwhelms them at times. NOT condoning AT ALL what the mom did, but I can see it happening. I've heard parents at WDW say things like "We've spent all this money and you're behaving like brats, etc....." which is just the verbal form of that reaction. And I have had conversations with my kids about these types of situations.

But I think that cast members were probably well aware of what was going on. There are a lot of security cameras and video monitoring at WDW and it would not surprise me if they were being monitored.

[sste]

Oh, that makes me feel much better that the cast members were likely monitoring. I felt strangely responsible for the whole thing, what I should do, etc.

I had no idea that the CRT plus the boutique could total so much!! I am sure you are right - - we just never looked into the boutique or dressup stuff so I was unaware. And for us DD was free so it was just two adults, 1 kid. Wow, that would be a significant stressor.

I know what you mean about some of the things you see. I am so critical of myself for not being patient enough, etc. as a parent but compared to what I saw out there I am not doing so badly . . .