How to decide whether to delay entry into kindy

[arivecchi]

DH told me recently that he thinks we should delay DS1's entry into kindy for a year. DS was born on 12/06. We have not gotten any indications that he is struggling at pre-school, but we both think he lacks confidence and seems to be intimidated by social situations at school (everybody likes Z and plays with him; Z and J won't play with me at school, etc.) He does not seem to be upset by his interactions at school but he does mention things like this every now and then.

DH was held back a year by his parents and he said he benefited greatly from it (both academically and in terms of sports), so he wants to do the same for DS.

We are hoping to move soon and the area we are moving to has a fantastic pre-school with transitional pre-kindergarten so we would just sign him up there. The cutoff in the district we are hoping to move to is Sept. 1.

Any thoughts from parents who seriously considered doing this? Which factors did you take into account? What did you end up doing?

P.S. Not looking to start a debate on the issue - just trying to get feedback from parents who struggled with this decision. Thanks. :)

[Kindra178]

We went through this same decision last year, but the birthday situation was very different. My ds1 misses the cut off by 8 weeks. In your case, your ds1 will already be well on the older side of the grade (September 1 cutoff).

As a practical matter, holding your ds will put him almost two years older than his peers. That's a huge difference. I have a great comparison now because my ds1 is in a K 1 2 class. He is one of the youngest, in some cases by almost three years. The second graders are way taller, way faster, more mature. Although that sounds great, it has a whole set of new problems. By holding a December birthday, your ds1 may be way too far from his peers to make friends of his own age.

By the way, I am very pro red shirting. I did two years of kinder myself. My parents pushed me ahead as I missed the cutoff by 4 weeks - it was a December 1 cutoff back then. I was reading but cried every day. Based on my experience, I really wanted to hold my ds1, and posted about this last year. We decided against it though. The knowledge of the bbb made very comfortable in my decision.

[SnuggleBuggles]

He makes the cut off by about 3 months. There is a chance that ds could feel bad or others may wonder why he is too old. Peers might think he wasn't smart and needs to repeat, for example. That's just a flip side for consideration.

I'd see what the norm is at the new school. Us red shifting common?

[HIU8]

We have been/are going through this now. My DS's bday is November. Cutoff is Sept 1st. We were advised to hold DS back. The public school laughed at us (literally). Their solution was to put DS in a regular class and let him fail or put him directly in a spec ed class (where even they said he doesn't need to be). DS went to a private program last year with all K ready kids who were held back. It was a great program, but we ended up pulling him out b/c we felt it was to much like therapy school (there are kids there with an array of issues) and DS really didn't need that. DS is in a different private this year. They accepted him for K (note, there is a 2 yr age span in his class--and lots of ppl will harp on that. You have to just let it go). In November of 2011 they considered moving DS back up to 1st (where he should be according to bday). They said that academically he really should be there, but socially he belongs in K. DS is doing really really well. His confidence has skyrocketed. He is the type of kid that will not allow you to see he can do something until he is good and ready (teachers have been reading this as an innability to do the task--whatever it is). But that has been changing. We meet with the teachers again in March and I know they have been bringing 1st grade work to DS, but keeping him in K.

We struggled with this decision and still do. Some days it seems he really should go up and other days he seems perfect where he is.

Feel free to PM me if you want.

[ha98ed14]

I agree with the PPs. He is already 5. Assuming you put him in K in the fall 2012, he will turn 6 mid way through the year. That is totally normal here, although technically if you lived here, you could have started him at 4 and have him term 5 mid way through the year. But most people would make the decision not to start him til 5 and let him turn 6 mid year.

Now, if you hold him out another year, you are going to have a 7 year old kindergartner. That is *really* old for K. Some 7 year olds are starting 2nd grade. Personally, I think there will be more social damage done by being that old that it would offset any academic or sports payoffs.

FWIW, I went to elementary school with this kid who had to repeat 2nd grade at least once, maybe twice. By the time our class got there, he was huge. I mean towering above is. Even at 7&8, we knew he did not belong there. He kind of developed a "dumb oaf" persona through the rest of school because he was so much bigger than everyone else and not all that bright.

Even though your son is bright, it's going to be weird to be 7 y.o. and in kindergarten when your friends are in 2nd.

[arivecchi]

I've been told that each kindy class usually has a handful of kids that have been held back. The district does not take a position on the issue. They said that it is totally up to the parents and they have both 5 and 6 yos in kindy.

I think part of DH's concern is that while the elementary and middle schools are smallish, all the schools from the area feed into a massive high school and he wants HS to be as easy for DS as possible. This is all foreign to me as I went to a small all-girls private school, but DH did the huge high school thing.

[hillview]

What do his teachers think?

[MamaMolly]

Lula missed the cutoff here by 16 days. I could have chosen a private school where she'd have been placed in the Kindy class this year (they have a different cut off), but decided to go ahead and put her in Pre-K. I'm comfortable with the decision now, though it was HARD at the time.

I don't know if I'd want a nearly 2 year age gap between my child and his/her peers. That seems like a lot.

[egoldber]

I've been told that each kindy class usually has a handful of kids that have been held back.

I am assuming your district has a September/October cutoff date. In which case, the vast majority of the kids who are held back will have summer birthdays. I live in a district where red-shirting of summer boys is almost a given and even in our district, it is extremely uncommon for a winter birthday to be held back.

[WatchingThemGrow]

As a K teacher, I've never seen a student with a Dec. b'day held back. May, June, July, August, yes, but not that much older.

DD's BFF in Kindy this year is a boy with an March or April bday who started late. We've been trying to get them into a week of summer camp together, and the one his sweet mom last offered up was for ages 7-9. DD will be newly 6 this summer, so she can't do that one with him because he's so much older.

My vote is for always starting them on time and building up skills where they are needed. I don't think it's really that beneficial for one kid to be celebrating their 5th bday at the beg. of school then having another celebrate a 7th bday a little bit later. There's such a difference. If your DC is inclined to be great at sports, he'll be great whichever grade he's in!

ETA: We'll be fielding questions about red-shirting DS2, I'm sure, since he's got a June bday and gets speech therapy. It is not my plan at all to hold him back, but rather to help him reach his full potential where he should be.

[wellyes]

The tough part of the 2 year age gap to me would be puberty - mostly him developing while his peers are not.

But I'll go against the grain. The social world of boys is a mystery to most women, in my opinion. I'd put a lot of weight on my DH's opinion in this scenario. If he feels strongly about it, I would let him take the lead on this.

[arivecchi]

But I'll go against the grain. The social world of boys is a mystery to most women, in my opinion. I'd put a lot of weight on my DH's opinion in this scenario. If he feels strongly about it, I would let him take the lead on this. This is a huge part of it. I did not got to the school in the US, did not experience a huge intimidating HS and am obviously not a boy. :) I was also not an athlete whereas DH was and being bigger is a huge advantage in his opinion. DH has been researching this issue lately and in his mind it is a no brainer given DS's lack of confidence. I am trying to educate myself as best as I can here!

[ha98ed14]

The tough part of the 2 year age gap to me would be puberty - mostly him developing while his peers are not.


I am not athletic at all, so this could be off, but I would think that whatever sports advantages/benefits OP's DH had because of being held back would be for precisely this reason. He would be that much more coordinated and bigger than peers.

One thing to check though is if your school district's athletic conference has restrictions on how old players can be. Conceivably, OP's DS would be a 19 year old senior in H.S. Are they going to let a 19 y.o. go up against 14 & 15 y.o.s?

[egoldber]

Except that most sports are grouped by age, not grade. At least here, until high school, sports are most often done via private/community leagues which are age based.

ETA: Our district has a policy that 19 year olds cannot play HS sports.

[sste]

No btdt experience but I did want to bring up the fact that high school is a LONG way off! Who knows where you guys will be - - if you will even be living in that same district for high school? And your DS is likely to become more confident. I think huge high schools also have the advantage of a social "niche" for virtually everyone.

What research is your DH reading? I believe the research in that popular malcolm gladwell book has been discredited. I would also be concerned that if your DH is motivated by sports (I think alot of dhs are with redshirting) it could be that much more pressure on your DS if he does not excel or have a strong interest in sports.

Maybe you and your DH should visit a kindy classroom or observe your DS in preschool. It may set your mind at ease to see your DS in action. And if there is some issue you can consider a social skills class or the like.

I just tend to think your DS will be so smart and incredibly TALL for delayed entry kindy . . .

[HIU8]

I do think there are very valid reasons to hold a child back (even one over the cutoff). Being able to play sports is not one of them IMHO. If that is your DH's main issue I honestly do not agree.

Like I said, DH and I struggle with this a lot. Had my DS not had a ton of pragmatic issues (that have almost all resolved) we would not have done what we did. My DS didn't speak to anyone all through preschool--he barked at them. It wasn't until we started OT and therapeutic listening that things changed and my DS literally came out of his shell. I also know that my DS, even though he is held back, will not be great in sports. He just isn't that type of kid. I feel that his teachers and therapists were quick to suggest "the gift of time" (I've grown to HATE that term). Now, we are trying to see where DS really belongs.

I would talk to your DS's teachers before you make any type of a decision. Whatever your decision is, you really need to focus on what your child needs and not worry about age etc.....

[icunurse]

[QUOTE=egoldber;3437045]Except that most sports are grouped by age, not grade. At least here, until high school, sports are most often done via private/community leagues which are age based.

Same here, at least until the upper grades. Right now, DS is in 2nd grade and all sports are non-school. Most of them are based on age, a few on grade. With soccer, I'm not sure what they would do because they base it on age AND grade, but use a standard school year (so the child must be 7 and enrolled in 2nd grade by x-date to participate, etc). So your DS might have to play sports without his classmates....assuming that your DS even wants to pursue sports....

[sste]

A-does your DS want to play with more kids, with J, etc? Is he at that point? If so it is a good sign. My DS is a complainer/processor of his day and emotions and occasionally I hear this sort of thing too - - "I felt left out today." Well, I hauled over to the preschool yesterday and spent some time and talked to both teachers about whether they thought DS was doing OK socially. It was what I had suspected - - my DS at least understands social structures enough to want to be part of the group in theory BUT he has little interest in the actual kids! So, he is mostly happy to play on his own and interact with his teachers and from time to time interact with other kids. His teachers told me he was fine socially, not quirky, and fairly confident but that DS wasn't developmentally in sync with the other kids. DS is not red-shirted but with a late October birthday and the age distribution of this particular pre-k class DS is one of the oldest ones and a kind of cerebral kid to boot - - this has not turned out to be the best combination socially. DS does much better socially at another program that he is in where the class is both closer to his age and to my eye more cognitively advanced.

Just a thought . . . your DS may not be blazingly socially successful because he is advanced, thoughtful, etc in which case you would want to think about how that would play out with delayed entry.

I did find it helpful to observe and the teacher immediately identified to me the one other boy that she thought was similar to my DS and would be good playdate material.

[Kindra178]

Did you know that the state your DH is from, everyone was held back, even 40 years ago? It's unclear why, but that state has extremely high red shirting rates and always has. In certain areas here it is really common (although not in my town). I believe your ds will already have a fantastic academic and sports advantage by being an early December birthday.

[jse107]

I agree with the PPs. He is already 5. Assuming you put him in K in the fall 2012, he will turn 6 mid way through the year. That is totally normal here, although technically if you lived here, you could have started him at 4 and have him term 5 mid way through the year. But most people would make the decision not to start him til 5 and let him turn 6 mid year.

Now, if you hold him out another year, you are going to have a 7 year old kindergartner. That is *really* old for K. Some 7 year olds are starting 2nd grade. Personally, I think there will be more social damage done by being that old that it would offset any academic or sports payoffs.

Even though your son is bright, it's going to be weird to be 7 y.o. and in kindergarten when your friends are in 2nd.

Agreed. I am a school counselor and a mom of DS who we held a year. He has an August birthday with a Spt. 1 cut-off (so he would have made it by 3 weeks). He is doing well being an older student in the grade, even though he is academically well ahead of many of his peers. That said, if he were a Dec. birthday, we probably would have sent him.

I'm not reading any particular issues that would make me think that he should wait it out another year (and I almost always lean that way).

[infocrazy]

Except that most sports are grouped by age, not grade. At least here, until high school, sports are most often done via private/community leagues which are age based.

:yeahthat:

DS1 has a summer birthday. He will turn 7 this summer and start 2nd grade in the fall. The cutoff for school here is 12/1. I happen to have a list of the birthdays for his grade. 20% of his 1st grade should actually be in second grade this year, so significant red-shirting district. But, of those kids, all but one had birthdays in Oct, Nov 2004. The one was in August 2004 (3 days shy of being a full year older than DS). DS is July 2005. Your DS, if I am doing my math right, would be Dec 2003.

The cutoff HERE for soccer is 8/1 and the cutoff for tball is 5/1. They are VERY strict here about playing in the age range, so you should review that because he will likely still be in sports with the older kids, but then not his friends from school. I don't think at a young level it will matter, but as he gets older, I'm sure they will try to figure out why your DS is in the 3rd grade when they are in the fifth.

Personally, I wouldn't do it...and that comes from someone who at times wonders if we should have held back our summer birthday boy. He is completely fine socially--almost too much(!) and can do the work without problem...he just doesn't!

[arivecchi]

Well, I think it's kind of hard for me to argue with DH about this when he was himself delayed and benefited from it.

I know that sports play a role in this decision for DH and honestly, I think it is a valid concern. We are not the type of family that does not value sports. We do want them to participate in sports, so while it is not the driving force, it is a factor for us. The bigger issue in my mind is his seeming lack of confidence. I think part of the problem is that DS changed schools last year and many of his pre-school classmates already know each other really well from school and the neighborhood. I would not say he is a loner but he is not as social as some of his peers. This does worry DH a lot.

This will hopefully be our last move, so yes, we do have to contemplate the high school years. Again, DH is very worried about the fact that the local high school is huge and very competitive.

Anyway, I appreciate all the feedback! Keep it coming!

[hellokitty]

I can understand redshirting a summer/early autumn baby, but I think that a December baby is pushing it, unless there are major issues. I do not consider lack of confidence and sports to be a good reason to redshirt. FWIW, our district does sports by AGE, not by grade. So, in your son's case, he would have zero advantage, since he'd still be playing with his age peers. I'm wondering how much of your DH's push is based more on the sports part of it...

[crl]

We held ds back. I think it has benefitted him significantly overall. But we had a very specific set of issues. Ds was immature socially, to the extent that he needed adult help to enter play at school. He also had significant difficulties attending to tasks, to the extent that he needed adult help to stay on task long enough to write his name. He also had speech/language delays and fine motor skills delays. We were looking at delays across several areas in skills that are typically acquired in preschool. He continued to receive services and support in all those areas during his extra year of preschool and he made huge strides. He entered K truly ready for it.

For a typically developing kid with a few areas of weakness, I would not hold him/her back. I don't see anything in what you describe that would make me hold your child back.

Catherine

[arivecchi]

Did you know that the state your DH is from, everyone was held back, even 40 years ago? It's unclear why, but that state has extremely high red shirting rates and always has. In certain areas here it is really common (although not in my town). I believe your ds will already have a fantastic academic and sports advantage by being an early December birthday.This is really interesting! Do you have info I can share with DH?

[Kindra178]

Try this thread:

http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=369042&highlight=redshirt+montessori

It cites to 2010 NY Times article. During our second K conference, we were questioning the teacher about redshirting our ds1, redshirting in general. She has an interesting perspective because she has been a teacher for 25 years and has been doing the multi age classroom for at least 15 years. Because of that, she has had students for 4 years as well as old for the grade kids and young for the grade kids. She said that holding doesn't change their personalities; for example, a nervous, perfectionist kid will still be a nervous, perfectionist kid if they are old or young.

I also worry about teachers unfairly labeling your ds through the years. He makes the cut off by only 12 weeks so teachers may wonder what is going on.

[sste]

A, I can't help but thinking that your DH doesn't have information on what things would like he if he hadn't been held back . . . maybe things would have played out the same or maybe they would have been different but not in any way worse, if that makes sense.

I do get that sports are important to your family but are they important to your DS? My hunch is you need several more years to answer that question but it would be kind of frustrating to make a decision based largely on sports and then your DS decides his passion is for chess club!

This book about resilient children that I am reading (thanks egoldberg!) has a very nice section that basically comes down to accepting the way your kid is wired. I don't know if this applies to your situation at all but I realized that I was striving to "fix" things that were just aspects of my child's personality and that no third party saw as problematic/delayed etc. It was actually rather liberating to realize that there are many different paths to social and life happiness and that my DS will likely find a group of science or drama-oriented kids to hang out with. And that really my job was not to so much to optimize but to enjoy DS for who he is and to encourage his natural leanings and talents in a way that makes him feel good about himself.

I have no idea if some of this is informing your DH's thinking . . . but at least for me it was a factor. I found myself always trying to strategically set up the "best" situation and it was a little stressful and I think my DS was picking up on it.

[larig]

Except that most sports are grouped by age, not grade. At least here, until high school, sports are most often done via private/community leagues which are age based.

ETA: Our district has a policy that 19 year olds cannot play HS sports.

There is likely a state athletic association policy too. Illinois has one, you are eligible through age 19. So, when you're 20 you're done...(quoting IHSA rules below)...

You will become ineligible on the date you become twenty (20) years of age, unless your twentieth (20th) birthday occurs during a sport season. In that case, you will become ineligible in regard to age at the beginning of the sport season during which your twentieth (20th) birthday occurs.

[Green_Tea]

Except that most sports are grouped by age, not grade. At least here, until high school, sports are most often done via private/community leagues which are age based.



Same here. I just signed DS up for Little League, and was hoping that another friend and he could be on the same team. DS has an August birthday, and his friend has a January birthday (so, even though they're both in K, DS is about 7 months younger.) The cut-off for LL (6 by April 1, if I remember correctly) has made it so they cannot be on the same team, even though they are in the same grade. We are facing similar issues for camps this summer, as many go by age and not grade. A child who is 2 years older than the other kids in his grade might not be able to play on the same teams as his friends, or attend the same camps or other activities. Some kids might not care about that sort of thing, but for my kids sports and camps are more about fun and fitness than becoming a superstar athlete, and I think they'd be pretty sad not to be able to play with their friends.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Is this the same ds that isn't really into sports? Vi don't think more time will really change it. He could very well find a niche in something other than sports where being bigger and older wont really matter.

[MissyAg94]

I think your son will already be one of the older kids in his grade so barring any developmental issues, I would send him and see how he does.

[Green_Tea]

Just a thought . . . your DS may not be blazingly socially successful because he is advanced, thoughtful, etc in which case you would want to think about how that would play out with delayed entry.



This is good food for thought - sometimes being the oldest and most mature kid in a class can be more isolating than having a shy, reluctant personality.

[jk3]

I would not hold him back.

[wellyes]

Because of that, she has had students for 4 years as well as old for the grade kids and young for the grade kids. She said that holding doesn't change their personalities; for example, a nervous, perfectionist kid will still be a nervous, perfectionist kid if they are old or young.

I kind of thought of this too. It doesn't sound like your DS is socially or developmentally delayed, it just sounds like he's a little less assertive socially. Redshirting may solve the problem, but it's just as likely to increase the issue.... if he's the tallest kid but still a little shy, it may only make him feel like a stand out (in a bad way) even more.

And also, I really believe that classes have personalities all their own, and not being central to the social scene in preschool does NOT mean that the child will be sidelined in kindy. It's a different set of kids, all new to it, at a different school - there's no saying where he'll fit in in that dynamic. But it doesn't sound like he's at great risk, all all. Sounds like a normal young boy :)

[MSWR0319]

Just curious when your DH's bday is and what the cutoff was back then. Having an Aug bday for a Sept 1 cutoff for example and going is totally different than having a Dec bday for a Sept cutoff. If the Aug bday was held back a year, he would be 6 in K, but the Dec bday would start at 6 and soon turn 7. How is your Ds academically? I would think hed be way ahead of most of the class and get bored. I would hold back an Aug bday but not a Dec, unless hes been tested and the teacher suggested it. He'd be driving as a Freshman and turn 20 as a Freshman in college.

[elektra]

My own decision was based on DD's birthday, what her teachers observed and my own intuition.
If DD had had a summer or fall birthday I would have held her back based on what her teachers have told me. Both my nieces have November birthdays and were held back a year (turned 5 in November 2011 and will start K in September 2012- so only one month older than your DS but still will start K with him if you don't hold him back), so they went from what would have been one of the younger kids to one of the older kids.

Even though DD's teacher felt that DD has things she needs to work on still before being 100% ready for K, I feel like we can work on those things now and she will be ready. And I also thought that holding back an early Spring birthday (March for DD) just seemed too old to me to hold back unless she was showing very obvious delays.

I do think that sports is a valid reason to hold back, especially for boys. My brother has mentioned on a few occasions that he sometimes wishes my parents held him back with his August birthday. He did not really hit puberty until his late into his sophomore year and for football it made a huge difference.
But if you would compare your DS to my brother (say they were the same grade) your DS would be almost 2 years older instead of just a year. Or say that my brother was redshirted and your DS went on time, your DS would still only 4 months younger than my brother or ~6 months younger than redshirted summer birthdays.
In the end for my brother, he made a great group of friends was totally ready socially (was class President in elementary, easy making friends, etc.) so he feels like it worked out in the end.

I would look into the rules about sports in your area and if 19 year olds can play. Your DS would not turn 19 until after football season though, so maybe it wouldn't be an issue. But what if he plays a spring sport? It would really suck if he could not play in HS for being held back. However, I am sure there have been many other players who have been held back and can still play- wonder how that works.
I might also look into literature about the downsides of being the oldest or more mature in a grade. Maybe there really aren't any! I think your DS will already be on the older side.
I am already thinking about what to do about my own DS too- his birthday is in May and that is just past the "Summer" redshirt timing that I always felt was too old to hold back. I am not sure now though.

[arivecchi]

Just curious when your DH's bday is and what the cutoff was back then. Great point! My DH has a late Sept. birthday so not as much of a difference as an early Dec. birthday.

I would appreciate any useful links you guys may have. Sending all this info to my DH. :)

[swissair81]

I'm planning on holding DS back, but the circumstances are different. He's a late October birthday and our grade cutoff is December 31st. He is not very social, and I hate to put him in a position where he is one of the youngest in the grade. The big difference is that I will be deciding what class to start him in now, before I can worry about leaving him back. I know they reevaluate the preschool kids before Kindy, but I've pretty much made my mind up.

[klwa]

So, to make sure I understand, your DS was 5 this past December & you were thinking about holding out until he's 6 almost 7?

DS is a September birthday, so he was after the cutoff for kindy, and I was happy about that. He was in school less than a month when he turned 6. I think that was good for him. However, there is no way I would have held him out an additional year.

I guess the question is, was your DH held out of school the year he turned 5 or the year he turned 6? That's a year's worth of difference. (Even with a September 1 cutoff, he'll be in the oldest 1/3 of the class going next year, right?)

[Kindra178]

When I making this decision last year, someone posted a really helpful article written by a Yale professor about redshirting. Does anyone remember that?

A, one more thing to consider is that bored boys become naughty boys in school!

[arivecchi]

There is likely a state athletic association policy too. Illinois has one, you are eligible through age 19. So, when you're 20 you're done...(quoting IHSA rules below)... Just trying to understand this aspect of it so I can discuss with DH. If we decided to hold him back, DS would be 18 entering senior year and would turn 19 half-way through senior year. And IF he were playing HS sports by then, they are not grouped by age at that point are they?

As an aside, DH tells me that both of his brothers were held back too. His younger brother has a late March birthday!

[khalloc]

I wouldnt hold my son back with a December birthday and a September cutoff date. turning 7 in Kindergarten seems insane to me. My DD is in Kindergarten now and has a November birthday and our cutoff date is September 1. She is already ahead of her peers and you can tell the kids that have summer birthdays. I think being 1.5 years older than everyone else in class would ostracize your son more.

[arivecchi]

I think being 1.5 years older than everyone else in class would ostracize your son more. How would that be the case? He'd be a year older than some kids right? Not all. Why would being a year older automatically mean he would be ostracized? Just trying to understand how the classroom dynamics would actually work.

[wendmatt]

DD was very quiet at preschool, socially awkward and did not really play with the other kids. She has a Nov birthday with a Sept 1 cutoff. She is now in 3rd grade and does fine. Actually she is a higher level GT student so I would not have held her back but just wanted to let you know that struggling socially at this age does not mean they will struggle as they move through school. I think if your DS is not struggling academically, I would not hold his back. As pps have said, a summer birthday is very different from a Dec birthday.

[egoldber]

How would that be the case? He'd be a year older than some kids right? Not all. Why would being a year older automatically mean he would be ostracized? Just trying to understand how the classroom dynamics would actually work.

Anything that makes him stand out as different from others can be a reason for other kids to exclude. It's not a given, but it's a possibility. This is why sometimes a larger school is better. There is simply a larger social pool of kids to be friends with.

Here are the rules for Illinois high school athletics. Larig is right in that in IL you are excluded from the season in which you turn 20. Other states (like VA) have more restrictive rules. In our state you cannot play at all in your 19th year.

http://ihsa.org/documents/forms/2011-12/elgrules_lg_1112.pdf

[TwinFoxes]

Just trying to understand this aspect of it so I can discuss with DH. If we decided to hold him back, DS would be 18 entering senior year and would turn 19 half-way through senior year. And IF he were playing HS sports by then, they are not grouped by age at that point are they?



I have never heard of any school district that groups players by age rather than grade once they get to High School. And even then they're not really grouped by grade, if you're a 9th grader who's a phenom, you can usually play varsity vs JV.

But to the original question, I think a December birthday really changes things. I was actually the opposite, a December birthday and I started at 4. I also agree with pp, that being that much older than his classmates might isolate your DS more. He'll likely be the teacher's pet, for lack of a better phrase, because he'll be more mature at almost 7, and there will be barely 5 year olds having meltdowns etc.

Such a hard decision. I will be going through this next year I'm sure. :)

[sste]

I think part of the classroom dynamics point is that a year (or a year and a half) is a bigger deal developmentally at these early ages. The difference between 5 and almost seven is huge whereas I tend to think the difference between 15 and 16.5 less so. It is just such a big, visible difference - - if you have time visit your school's kindy versus their first or second grade and I think you will see what I mean.

I can't imagine it would create some kind of 12 year track of social issues, but I would anticipate it might require some effort and accomodation in the early years to make sure your DS is doing well with his peers.

Also, there is the point of how your DS will perceive this and how that might affect him socially. He sounds like such a thoughtful kid that I am concerned he will think there is something "wrong" with him that guided the decision to hold him back. I may be projecting here but in a class that was 1-1.5 years younger it would take my DS about 10 seconds to conclude that he had been put with babies and to be hounding me as to why!!!

[Kindra178]

How would that be the case? He'd be a year older than some kids right? Not all. Why would being a year older automatically mean he would be ostracized? Just trying to understand how the classroom dynamics would actually work.

Because older kids are interested in different things. A favorite game of k'ers at DS1's school is like a chase tag game. The k'ers don't play that with the 2nd graders, even though they are in the same class, because the 2nd graders would destroy them. Put another way, the 2nd graders are bigger, taller and faster. Even the shorter 2nd graders are a head taller than my 80th percentile young for the grader k'er. Further, standing out when you that young isn't necessarily a good thing. Even is he is short, he will be SO much taller.

I don't know what the cut off was some 35 years ago for your dh's state. The vast majority of cut offs in all the states were fairly late, like December 1 or December 30. So that would make sense that a September birthday would be held back, especially in that state where that was the trend.

Finally, what if he starts kindergarten very late upon your dh's suggestion and the teacher strongly recommends he moves up to first grade because that would be more appropriate developmentally and academically. There is a very high probability of this happening because he is VERY smart. Then you will be forced to make a decision to move him up AND he and YOU won't have the benefit of knowing last year's kindergarteners.

[AnnieW625]

He makes the cut off by about 3 months. There is a chance that ds could feel bad or others may wonder why he is too old. Peers might think he wasn't smart and needs to repeat, for example. That's just a flip side for consideration.

I'd see what the norm is at the new school. Us red shifting common?

:yeahthat: Plus I hate to say it but you might get some flack for having a 7 yr. old in kindergarten for more than half of the year, and there might come a point where he is just bored. IMHO with a December birthday he'll already be one of the oldest in the class. In DD1's school there is only one boy born in July who was held back, and they have a September cutoff (so he would have been eligible to go to kinder. in 2010).

My cousin will turn 19 this May a couple of weeks before he graduates from high school. He is perfectly happy and a good student, but the redshirting him definitely helped educationally because he has always gone to private schools that can have a competitive edge. If they lived in area with good public schools I highly doubt they would have held him back unless he really needed it educationally.

eta: my DD1 is one of the shyest child and often prior to kindergarten thought she might be a bit socially inept to deal with things as she is not assertive at all because she afraid of doing something wrong or displeasing someone that I was a tad worried about her and how she would socialize. She has done just fine and her current BFF is the the other really shy girl in the class. Kids adapt IMHO and I think it is best that you are going to be moving soon so he'll have the summer to get used to the new school. DD1 loved going to school open houses last year and it gave her a clue that kinder. was so much more than pre school.

[Kindra178]

How would that be the case? He'd be a year older than some kids right? Not all. Why would being a year older automatically mean he would be ostracized? Just trying to understand how the classroom dynamics would actually work.

Your December 2006 ds would be in the same class as kids born in August 2008. That's a huge difference!

[cvanbrunt]

Why not start him on time and have him repeat if you think he needs to?

[wellyes]

And while girls dream of being special, boys really do not want to stand out.

[mom2binsd]

My DS is in K this year, he entered at age 5 and turns 6 in March, pretty typical. My XH has Dec. birthday, here in IL and he benefitted from the "natural" advantage it has, just like your DS would.

I'm thinking of his class, with a few boys who started at age 6 (June/July birthdays for Aug.1st cutoff), so they won't turn 7 until the school year is over, whereas your DS will be 7 before Christmas. It sounds like he is really ready for K and holding him back isn't necessarily going to to give him any big advantage. I totally understand the sports issue, we are very sports oriented here, but your DS will already be the oldest so it's not that big of a deal.

My DS plays sports- hockey and football. They are by age. Very quickly you will learn that your social life seems to develop around their sports, so my DS is grouped with kids his own age who also play at the same sports level...however your DS might end up playing, for example tackle football (it starts here at age 8) when his classmates are all still playing touch, his teammates will be in one or two grades above him which once they get past 2nd is a big deal. So you could end up with baseball/football friends who are in grade 5/6 but classmates in grade 3/4...it is just nice to stick to the natural age groupings.

Also, he will be much more mature than the kids in his classes, and with an almost 2 year gap, some of the girls in his class will be much younger and dating will present a whole new challenge...and as the first to get his drivers license everyone will want to go with him!!!!

I would be interested to hear what his preschool teacher has to say.

What you describe as lack of confidence may just be that the boys in his class aren't that appealing either to him, I bet given opportunity in a larger group he'd find friends and mix in really easy, preschool is a pretty small setting.

How has he done in sports activities,? I see how my DS so easily socializes, while other boys it takes a little longer, or the coaches get a little more involved to help the process, some kids are just a little more reticent to join in.

[vludmilla]

Except that most sports are grouped by age, not grade. At least here, until high school, sports are most often done via private/community leagues which are age based.

ETA: Our district has a policy that 19 year olds cannot play HS sports.

:yeahthat: I was going to post this. Sports for elementary and middle school kids are based on age so the benefit could only be in high school and in our district, a 19 year old senior would not be able to play. I think that could be very disappointing to a child who was really into sports if he couldn't play for his senior year because of age.

[KrisM]

Great point! My DH has a late Sept. birthday so not as much of a difference as an early Dec. birthday.

I would appreciate any useful links you guys may have. Sending all this info to my DH. :)

Did he also have a Sept 1 cut off? Our cut off is Dec. 1, so many Sept birhtdays are held back.

I'm thinking about this. My DD is in kindergarten and she's a 6-06 girl. So, 6 months older than your son. My DS1 is a 4-08 and at 7.5 is in 2nd grade. I can't imagine DS1 being just starting 1st grade right now. He's not overly mature and struggles socially as well.

I'd talk to his teachers, a kindergarten teacher, etc and get their opinions.

If he doesn't go to kindergarten, what will he do? Is there a preschool for 6 year olds he can attend? Here most are by age and I"m not sure there is one for kids that old, although I haven't specifically looked. Will he be bored with having 4 year olds (potentially) in his class?

[arivecchi]

Thank you all for all the feedback and information! This is very helpful! I have an email into the pre-school teacher so that we can discuss her views on his readiness for kindy. I'm curious to see whether the perceived lack of confidence is an obstacle in the classroom or not. Who knows, we may be totally blowing it out of proportion.

To be honest, I was taken aback when DH brought this up. I had not even considered it, but DH is a very thoughtful and educated person (despite being a jock ;)) and I did not want to be dismissive. He is very in tune with what the kids need.

Thanks again!

[KrisM]

Your December 2006 ds would be in the same class as kids born in August 2008. That's a huge difference!

But, not everyone would be an August 2008. You'd have some Sept 2007 in there, too. So, saying he'd be 1.5 years older than everyone isn't very accurate. He'd be 1.5 years older than some and 9 months older than others.

[GaPeach_in_Ca]

Just trying to understand this aspect of it so I can discuss with DH. If we decided to hold him back, DS would be 18 entering senior year and would turn 19 half-way through senior year. And IF he were playing HS sports by then, they are not grouped by age at that point are they?


It's true that in school sports you are not grouped by age. But, the foundation for youth sports is formed in elementary which is grouped by age. You could actually be turning your son off to sports by him having to play without his classmates and friends.

We are on the other end of the spectrum. My DS turned 7 in 2nd grade (late September birthday). In 1st, the kids on his soccer team were almost all 1 year below him in school, which just wasn't that fun. This year we actually played him up in sports and we had a great soccer year.

Also, as far as confidence, my son has tons of confidence by being the youngest in his class and being able to do everything that the older kids can do just as well as they can. If anything, I think it would hurt confidence to be so much older than the other kids. Kids do notice the age difference, birthdays are a big deal in school during the younger grades. Your son is already one of the oldest, why make it so obvious by having him be even older?

[Robyn0204]

I would send him to K. He will already be one of the older kids in class, or right in the middle, since so many parents seems to be holding their kids back these days. My little boys are fall birthday boys and so will be on the older side but my oldest is a June baby and I can not wrap my mind around not having had him start school when he was suppose to. He did play with a boy, also in the 4th grade, that was an entire year older than him in soccer. He was a big kid too. I think that child was forever explaining why he wasn't in the 5th grade. My husband and I are late fall birthdays and we went "early" if you will. We were both very successful in school. I guess I just don't understand the amount of "red-shirting" going on. There are cut-offs for a reason and someone has to be the oldest and someone has to be the youngest.

[Kindra178]

But, not everyone would be an August 2008. You'd have some Sept 2007 in there, too. So, saying he'd be 1.5 years older than everyone isn't very accurate. He'd be 1.5 years older than some and 9 months older than others.

He's early December so it would actually be more like ten months . . .

[rin]

But, not everyone would be an August 2008. You'd have some Sept 2007 in there, too. So, saying he'd be 1.5 years older than everyone isn't very accurate. He'd be 1.5 years older than some and 9 months older than others.

:yeahthat:

If I'm doing the math right, the OP's son is born in Dec. 06, and right now she's debating between sending him with his age cohort (Sep. 06-Aug. 07) or the next age cohort (Sep. 07-Aug. 08), right? So in the first case he'd range from 3 months younger to 8 months older than the bulk of the other children (not taking into consideration red-shirted kids/kids who skip grades), and in the second he'd range from 9 months older to 1 year, 9 months older than the bulk of the other kids (again, not taking into consideration other redshirted/accelerated kids).

Here's an interesting article on the academic effects of red-shirting: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/dont-delay-your-kindergartners-start.html.

I guess I'm wondering what the advantage really is for sports? From my understanding, in the younger years kids play sports by age alone, and once you get to high school it has much more to do with ability. I have known particularly gifted athletes who were on varsity teams as freshmen/sophomores.

I guess I've always thought of grade-school red-shirting as something that would make sense for academic/social reasons, and college-level red-shirting as something done for athletic reasons, but I've never heard of someone red-shirting a grade-school child for sports.

[YouAreTheFocus]

So if you hold him back, he would be 6.9 or 6.10 when entering Kindy...I have to agree with the PPs who have said that really could make for too much age disparity. This kind of age difference is very noticeable in elem & mid school. Kids who are 5 will have different interests than kids who are 7, and he will be 7 for most of the year. I was 1 yr younger than my peers (4 entering kindy, turned 5 in Feb), and many of my "play" interests were also 1 yr behind.

Then taking into account the age grouping that happens in the extra-curriculars would really make it a no-go for me. I would prefer that my kid be with the same cohort in school and out. Quite frankly, as a kid, I think it would stink not to be able to do sports and camps with your school friends. The age "bonus" would really only help in HS, that wouldn't be enough for me to base this on.

I have nephews in hockey in the north suburbs, that's where DH is from. Around there, the HSs are HUGE and sports are HUGE. I know there is redshirting, but I don't think to this extreme. From what I've seen, parents are more likely to put their kids in tons of private lessons to move them along/give them an edge.

[TwinFoxes]

Anything that makes him stand out as different from others can be a reason for other kids to exclude. It's not a given, but it's a possibility. This is why sometimes a larger school is better. There is simply a larger social pool of kids to be friends with.

Here are the rules for Illinois high school athletics. Larig is right in that in IL you are excluded from the season in which you turn 20. Other states (like VA) have more restrictive rules. In our state you cannot play at all in your 19th year.

http://ihsa.org/documents/forms/2011-12/elgrules_lg_1112.pdf

The VA rule is you can't have turned 19 by August 1 of the school year. So turning 19 in December, like OP's son would do if red shirted. would be OK. It may have changed recently because of all the redshirts.

28-5-1 AGE RULE-The student shall not have reached the age of 19 on or before the first day of August of the school year in which he/she wishes to compete.

http://www.vhsl.org/doc/upload/pub-handbook-2011-12.pdf

[elektra]

I guess I'm wondering what the advantage really is for sports? From my understanding, in the younger years kids play sports by age alone, and once you get to high school it has much more to do with ability. I have known particularly gifted athletes who were on varsity teams as freshmen/sophomores.

I guess I've always thought of grade-school red-shirting as something that would make sense for academic/social reasons, and college-level red-shirting as something done for athletic reasons, but I've never heard of someone red-shirting a grade-school child for sports.

It can really make a big difference for boys IMO, especially for certain sports where bigger and stronger is better like football.
Of course in elementary it would not make a huge difference as you are playing with kids your own age and not grade. But when you get to high school it is by grade, and for certain sports, your high school performance is what earns you scholarships. So if you are already more physically mature than the boys you are competing against, it really puts you at an advantage to get more playing time and earn a scholarship.
So the redshirting for sports now is more in preparation for high school, at least that is how I would view it.
I have read the Malcolm Gladwell observances about birth month and I can see how is assumptions could be critiqued. However, older boys are on average just more physically able to compete in sports like football, hockey or basketball.

Re: the OP's DS, I think December will still put him at an advantage over other boys both academically and in sports.

And even if he never plays sports, I completely understand wanting to do whatever you can to help set our kids up for future successes in school, in sports, and in life.

[arivecchi]

It's true that in school sports you are not grouped by age. But, the foundation for youth sports is formed in elementary which is grouped by age. You could actually be turning your son off to sports by him having to play without his classmates and friends.

We are on the other end of the spectrum. My DS turned 7 in 2nd grade (late September birthday). In 1st, the kids on his soccer team were almost all 1 year below him in school, which just wasn't that fun. This year we actually played him up in sports and we had a great soccer year.

Also, as far as confidence, my son has tons of confidence by being the youngest in his class and being able to do everything that the older kids can do just as well as they can. If anything, I think it would hurt confidence to be so much older than the other kids. Kids do notice the age difference, birthdays are a big deal in school during the younger grades. Your son is already one of the oldest, why make it so obvious by having him be even older? You raise great points. Thank you!

[elektra]

From what I've seen, parents are more likely to put their kids in tons of private lessons to move them along/give them an edge.

I have to say though that no amount of lessons will allow a 165 pound high school line backer successfully bring down a 200 pound, year-older fullback.
Same for other specific sports positions- like basketball centers, baseball pitchers, etc.

Lessons would help with golf, tennis or certain other sports.

And I also don't think the age difference is an issue for girls to the same degree at all.

[o_mom]

How would that be the case? He'd be a year older than some kids right? Not all. Why would being a year older automatically mean he would be ostracized? Just trying to understand how the classroom dynamics would actually work.

I don't think it would be automatic, but I will say that already in DS2's first grade there are kids who have already figured out that they are 'old' for grade. These are not even as old as you are proposing, where he would be at least 6 months older than the vast majority of kids. These are just 'summer' birthdays with June/July birthdays with an Aug/Sept cutoff. They are only a few months older, but ask their parents and teachers why they are not in second grade like other 7 yos. Kids do notice these things and while many will not have any issues, there are some who will wonder why they were held back or how to 'prove' later that they were not retained.

[MSWR0319]

Great point! My DH has a late Sept. birthday so not as much of a difference as an early Dec.

I'd just double check with your DH then that he was 6 going into K and turned 7 in Sept, vs 5 going into K and turned 6 soon after. That way you know he's comparing as close to apples to apples as you can get with his age and DS's in K. Because if his district had a Sept 30 cutoff, he potentially could have been 4 starting K, but his parents redshirted him, meaning he was then 5 when he started, which is totally different than your son starting at 6. As long as the ages are comparable for his reasoning, you guys have to just decide what's right for your family using all the resources you are gathering.

[KpbS]

I would not hold back a child with a Winter birthday unless he had some prominent delays, academically, speech, etc. June, July, August those months would give me pause but not an older child. IME the OP's son will have an advantage being one of the older ones (with a Fall/Winter birthday) in the K class. I haven't read all of the replies but I think a 7 yo K is too old, barring any other developmental delays.

[khalloc]

How would that be the case? He'd be a year older than some kids right? Not all. Why would being a year older automatically mean he would be ostracized? Just trying to understand how the classroom dynamics would actually work.

Well just from remembering when I was in school, when kids were obviously older than the rest of the class, others knew it and I feel like there was a stigma about it. Not saying that is the case in Kindergarten, but once you get to middle school and high school I would imagine it might be something that you could get made fun of for. Seeing as kids make fun of other kids for the dumbest reason ever. They wont think of whether he was ready for Kindergarten. They could assume he wasnt smart enough, was kept back, etc..Its just a thought. I dont have any experience with redshirting, but I wouldnt do it myself. Unless maybe my son or daughter really had a learning disability along with barely making the cutoff date.

My DD is really doing well in K and I can tell her maturity since she is an early Nov birthday with a Sept 1 cut off. I cant imagine if she was still in pre-K and then starting Kindergarten when she was almost 7. She would be bored there with a bunch of 5 year olds.

Plus I tend to think further ahead and I wouldnt want to be graduating from high school at 19.5

[kristenk]

Being older than his K classmates might not give your DS more confidence. It could backfire and make him feel more awkward around them b/c of the age difference.

[arivecchi]

And even if he never plays sports, I completely understand wanting to do whatever you can to help set our kids up for future successes in school, in sports, and in life. I think I have mentioned several times that the main reason is DS's seeming lack of confidence and the fact that he tends to be very passive in social settings - so while the sports consideration is there - it is not the primary reason. Thanks for stating this so clearly elektra. The point is that IF he chooses to go into certain sports, being older and bigger could be a big advantage.

I have to say that I respect DH's views on this because he LIVED that experience. He was very successful academically, socially and in sports. No one was ostracizing him or making fun of him for being older or better at sports, so I do have to wonder whether those perceptions actually end up being reality.

I think my main takeaways are that he will already be among the older kiddos with a Dec. birthday, that he may miss out on some school-related activities if he is grouped with a different age group and that he will become aware of the fact that he is older than his classmates and will question that at some point. Those are all great points that we need to consider.

[mom2binsd]

Is there any way to see what the makeup of the new K class will look like, in our district they do K registration in mid March, the families come to the school, there are two times during the day/evening and the parents meet with the admin (principal/nurse/admin) and the kiddo's go with all the K teacher to tour the school etc....do you know which school you will be going to? It wouldn't hurt to contact them and see what the "norms" at the school are.

[arivecchi]

I'd just double check with your DH then that he was 6 going into K and turned 7 in Sept, vs 5 going into K and turned 6 soon after. That way you know he's comparing as close to apples to apples as you can get with his age and DS's in K. Because if his district had a Sept 30 cutoff, he potentially could have been 4 starting K, but his parents redshirted him, meaning he was then 5 when he started, which is totally different than your son starting at 6. As long as the ages are comparable for his reasoning, you guys have to just decide what's right for your family using all the resources you are gathering. You are right. I need to ask MIL about the cutoffs back then so I can better understand the gap that DH experienced.

Thank you all!

[o_mom]

I think I have mentioned several times that the main reason is DS's seeming lack of confidence and the fact that he tends to be very passive in social settings - so while the sports consideration is there - it is not the primary reason. Thanks for stating this so clearly elektra. The point is that IF he chooses to go into certain sports, being older and bigger could be a big advantage.

I have to say that I respect DH's views on this because he LIVED that experience. He was very successful academically, socially and in sports. No one was ostracizing him or making fun of him for being older or better at sports, so I do have to wonder whether those perceptions actually end up being reality.

I think my main takeaway is that he will already be among the older kiddos with a Dec. birthday, that he may miss out on some school-related activities if he is grouped with a different age group and that he become very aware of the fact that he is older than his classmates. Those are all great points that we need to consider.


I would also consider that if he is passive and not confident and you hold him back, you may just set him up to be passive, not confident and older/different. I really, really believe that much of the 'confidence' of older kids is personality. My own DS1 is among the oldest in grade because he just misses the cut off. By that reasoning, he should be confident and outgoing - but he isn't. It's his personality and who he is. Putting him in a different age group doesn't change that.

I will say that it is impossible to say if your DH's success was due to being older or his own personality. While he or his parents may attribute it to being older, it could just his own nature. Someone with good social skills may not feel ostracized at being older because they have the skills to fit in. Someone with poor social skills may not get that same advantage being older and may not handle the age difference well.

[R2sweetboys]

I do think there are very valid reasons to hold a child back (even one over the cutoff). Being able to play sports is not one of them IMHO. If that is your DH's main issue I honestly do not agree.

Like I said, DH and I struggle with this a lot. Had my DS not had a ton of pragmatic issues (that have almost all resolved) we would not have done what we did. My DS didn't speak to anyone all through preschool--he barked at them. It wasn't until we started OT and therapeutic listening that things changed and my DS literally came out of his shell. I also know that my DS, even though he is held back, will not be great in sports. He just isn't that type of kid. I feel that his teachers and therapists were quick to suggest "the gift of time" (I've grown to HATE that term). Now, we are trying to see where DS really belongs.

I would talk to your DS's teachers before you make any type of a decision. Whatever your decision is, you really need to focus on what your child needs and not worry about age etc.....
:yeahthat: And this is coming from a family that does value sports.


It's true that in school sports you are not grouped by age. But, the foundation for youth sports is formed in elementary which is grouped by age. You could actually be turning your son off to sports by him having to play without his classmates and friends.

We are on the other end of the spectrum. My DS turned 7 in 2nd grade (late September birthday). In 1st, the kids on his soccer team were almost all 1 year below him in school, which just wasn't that fun. This year we actually played him up in sports and we had a great soccer year.

Also, as far as confidence, my son has tons of confidence by being the youngest in his class and being able to do everything that the older kids can do just as well as they can. If anything, I think it would hurt confidence to be so much older than the other kids. Kids do notice the age difference, birthdays are a big deal in school during the younger grades. Your son is already one of the oldest, why make it so obvious by having him be even older?

:yeahthat: I totally agree with this. Here, sports through the rec department are divided by grade so there would be an "advantage" there. However, once they start taking a strong interest and want to do travel sports,(which start pretty young now) they're often set up by age and your DS would be with very few of his peers.

We had to make the decision when DS1 started K, but only because he has a mid-August birthday and our cut-off is 10/15. We spoke with his pre-school teachers and they felt strongly that he was ready so he started on time. He's one of the younger kids in his class, but he has always done very well academically, socially, and in sports. Although we are a family that does love sports, I have always been against red-shirting just so your child can be bigger/better. It puts the kids that started on time at a disadvantage-not fair in my opinion.(I have no problem with those who hold back due to developmental issues) I actually think kids who are much older and therefore excel in sports are somewhat discredited-as in "Oh, he's just so good because he's older." The most talented athlete by far in DS's class is one of the younger kids-he just has natural talent. If he was held back he'd be extremely bored.

As it is, your son would already be one of the older kids in his class. He already has an advantage right there. I think your DH is getting confused-most people who do red-shirt have kids within a few months of the cut-off. Your DS' birthday is 9 months ahead of the cut-off! He will be just fine starting on time.

[mom3boys]

Great point! My DH has a late Sept. birthday so not as much of a difference as an early Dec. birthday.

I would appreciate any useful links you guys may have. Sending all this info to my DH. :)

So it sounds like your DH was not really "held back", I mean, he was, but if he had lived in a state with a Sept 1 cutoff, he would have been within normal age range. It makes sense to me to not start a kid in Kindy at 4 (turning 5 a few weeks later). It doesn't make sense to me to start a kid in Kindy at at 6 3/4.

If you think through to high school, he would turn 19 during his senior year and be almost 20 as a college freshman? The only kids who were that old in my high school were kids held back sometime during their school years for academic reasons, were always in special ed, etc. I agree with PP if he was that much older than other students I think the teachers might wonder why he was held back (where they would not wonder for a july, august kid).

My DS1 has a late Sept. birthday, he turned 5 in 9/2011, so I think he is 3 mos. older than your DS. He is in kindergarten already (10/1 cutoff). So, yes, he started kindergarten at age 4 yrs and 11.5 mos. That said, he may be repeating kindergarten next year, but I don't think I did him a disservice by sending him. He has been challenged, next year if he repeats, he will not be challenged, but we know better what he is capable of.

I have June and July boys as well and I can already tell I will be sending my June boy on time. And DS3 is a baby so obviously I have no idea with him!

These conversations always make me wish I had my kids in February, March, April and could spend less time thinking about birthday cutoffs!

[AddieLuke]

I wouldn't hold my kid back with a cut off of Sept and a birthday in Dec. I, personally have a late Dec birthday (12/30) and I started school with everyone else born in the same year. The cut off was end of the year. I don't believe I was given a disservice by not being held back. Academically and socially, I turned out fine. I graduated at 17 and even finished my first semester of college before even turning 18! If your DH is worried about your son socially, I wouldn't. His maturity level will come with those around him. If you stick him with younger kids, he'll most likely act like a younger kid. But if you put him with kids his own age, although he may not be as mature, he'll learn to adapt to whatever the social norm is. And if you son is naturally shy, holding him back a year is not going to do anything for him. He could just be a shy kid.

[daisysmom]

It can really make a big difference for boys IMO, especially for certain sports where bigger and stronger is better like football.
Of course in elementary it would not make a huge difference as you are playing with kids your own age and not grade. But when you get to high school it is by grade, and for certain sports, your high school performance is what earns you scholarships. So if you are already more physically mature than the boys you are competing against, it really puts you at an advantage to get more playing time and earn a scholarship.
.

I would not hold him back. While he may be bigger and at an advantage at the time of highschool sports, if he doesn't have the friendly peers because he was much older, that won't really help him in *team* sports.

I have a DD who is in Pre-K now and we just visited the private kindergarten where she got accepted to go. She is a March 07 birthday, and our cutoff is Sept. 30. We see most summer boys held back "red shirted" and a few of the summer girls, but the school really frowns on redshirting. My worry is that if your school frowns on redshirting by that much too, will your son lose any perceived advantage. If he is so much bigger than other boys (such as entering puberty early), will the coach have some negative bias.

I hear you on the importance of athletics. My husband swam (breast stroke) for a college team, and his family (and mine) was very into youth sports. We still are, and we are raising our DD with that value too. My husband talks about it being hard at 15 to be swimming against 18 year olds that had bloomed, when my husband was considered a "late bloomer" but he doesn't regret that. He was speedy and light and FAST. I wish the same for your boy. I would think it would be easier today to fit into things to be trim and smaller frankly than the opposite, especially with such an emphasis on physical fitness and fighting childhood obesity. The last thing you would want is for his classmates (or teachers) to think he is big or fat or a negative example just because of this decision now. Bluntly, that would be my concern. Just b/c he would be so much more mature.

[baileygirl]

What would you tell him your reason for holding him back was? And what would he tell others? Do you think this could also affect his confidence?

[dogmom]

Just trying to understand this aspect of it so I can discuss with DH. If we decided to hold him back, DS would be 18 entering senior year and would turn 19 half-way through senior year. And IF he were playing HS sports by then, they are not grouped by age at that point are they?

As an aside, DH tells me that both of his brothers were held back too. His younger brother has a late March birthday!

I have friends at work with older kids, some in college, and I know kids turning 18 early in HS can present issues. When a child turns 18 HE IS AN ADULT, even if he is in school. He can choose whatever he wants to do and all you can do is choose to throw him out of the house, or not. Any trouble he gets into with his classmates as a JR in HS will wind up on his permanent record. Depending what state he is in if he has a Sophomore for a girlfriend he could be charged with statutory rape.

It can have real drawbacks. I'm not saying you thing you are going to raise a bad kid, but none of the people I know that are in bad situations thought they would either. I just was listening to a story on This American Life about a kid who sold $25 of pot to a girl he was trying to impress in HS who asked him to get it for her. Turns out she was a undercover cop posing as a student in his class. He was 18, he got charged with a felony because it was on school property. He did not do jail time, but he now has a felony conviction on his record. This kid never got in trouble before and was on honor role.

I think we tend to really dwell on how our decisions effect our kids now and not as much as in 10 or 20 years because most of the people we know have kids that age. I'm not saying it's wrong to hold him back. But I would need a very compelling reason to have that kind of age difference with his peers.

[KrisM]

He's early December so it would actually be more like ten months . . .

Yes, but the person (and I don't know if it's you or someone else), said he'd be 1.5 years old than everyone else in the class. Clearly, it's not the case. I'm sure some of the summer kids will be held back, so some he'd only be 6 months older. Certainly, his class wouldn't be him plus everyone born in August 2008.

[Gracemom]

I would talk to his current teacher, as well as a K teacher at his next school to see what they recommend. My DS has an August birthday, and we have a Sept. 1 cut off. He was supposed to start K last year, but we delayed. He will start K this fall. It was definitely the best decision for him, based on his lack of interest in learning to read and his immaturity. So he will turn 6 just before he starts K, but around here that is becoming more normal. He will turn 18 just before starting his senior year in high school. I had an October birthday and was happy I was one of the older kids. It helped boost my confidence. Good luck!

[momof2girls]

My friend's DD is a early June bday. Cutoff is Oct 1. She held her back mostly b/c she just really coddles her not b/c of academics. She is in second grade now which is also the highest grade level her school goes. She said her DD has been questioning why she is always the oldest and needs to be reassured that there is nothing wrong with it. She will also be 19 as a senior in HS. IMHO I think was unwarranted to hold her back.
My youngest DD is the same age and we chose to keep her on track. No harm done to her so far! She is in first and and is above average in pretty much everything. Keeping her back would have a been a diservice.
As the mom of girls, I do sometimes worry about older boys in middle school (who were kept back in elem school) being in class with them.

[Melbel]

I have several close friends who have boys with summer birthdays with a September 1 cut off (they were within a couple months of the cut-off). The majority of the children were held back, but the parents also looked to the individual child's strengths/weaknesses.

Observing DS and DD1's classmates, as a general rule, I favor holding back if the child is pretty close to the cut off. 3 months is more iffy. I would not hold back a child more than 3 months without a very compelling reason for doing so (more than the garden variety reasons for holding back such as sports, etc.). Of course, each situation is different, but these are my general guidelines.

The oldest child in any of my kids grades has a February birthday with a September cut-off. The child has some learning delays, and there appeared to be "compelling" reasons.

DS has a mid-January birthday and he his older than 40% of the kids. Before his illness, DS was perfectly fine socially and in sports. He was ahead academically.

DD1 has a late September birthday, which is the perfect scenario IME. She gets to be one of the oldest, but there is no need to hold her back.

DD2 has an early June birthday. We are sending her to 4 year old preschool at her current church based program in the fall. We will see what her teachers think next year and see how she progresses and then decide if she should go to K or repeat pre-k the following year at a private elementary school. She is very social and ahead academically, but we are still taking a wait and see approach.

The private schools tend to redshirt most boys with summer birthdays and about 1/2 the girls. The demographics of your school may come into play.
I hope this helps a little. These are very tough decisions!

[MontrealMum]

Just posting quickly as I'm wrangling DS by myself, but this is an issue that we did consider carefully as well. My DS is significantly younger than yours but slated to be in the same grade. He has an Aug. b-day with a Sept. cut off.

Physically, he's quite large, but he's fairly young maturity-wise. However, in speaking with his teacher, we've realized that he would be bored out of his mind if we held him back (her words). Although he has trouble focusing and sitting still she says that those are normal with kids his age, and he's not the only one in his present class with those issues. He's meeting all the goals expected of kids in his age group, and is apparently ahead of some of the older kids. Also, the kindy teacher will be expecting kids from a wide range of backgrounds and will know how to cope.

So, DS will start kindy in Fall 2012. If we're told once he's progressing through the system that he needs to be held back, of course we'd consider it. But it makes no sense to do so preemptively given what we've been told by both his present teacher and his future teacher. I found talking to both teachers extremely helpful in making my decision.

[smilequeen]

With his birthday and that cutoff, unless there is something significantly delayed academically or socially I would not even entertain the thought of holding back. He'll be on the older side as it is.

The research simply does not support any benefit to redshirting, even borderline kids. I think it's normal to feel like your husband, that his experience is the best, but it just isn't supported by the real facts. He probably would have had a fine time if he had gone on time too as I'm guessing he was just intelligent and athletically talented.

I've been researching it a lot as I have a July 17th boy in a state with an Aug 1 cutoff. He turns 5 this year. I just signed him up for K, but I am just keeping the right to change my mind at the last minute. Like I said, redshirting just because is not supported by research. The long term advantages are just not there. In fact, there might be more benefits to being younger, learning to work a little harder than to be older and have everything be too easy.

I think as someone else said, I'd rather just support him and make sure he is in a great school (he is) that will support him in his own age group than hold him back. We are going through language testing though, so if it turns out he needs significantly more help with language processing, I may reevaluate his case.

That is my take. I can look up my links to the research on it in a bit if you want.

[carolinamama]

I've been told that each kindy class usually has a handful of kids that have been held back. The district does not take a position on the issue. They said that it is totally up to the parents and they have both 5 and 6 yos in kindy.

I think part of DH's concern is that while the elementary and middle schools are smallish, all the schools from the area feed into a massive high school and he wants HS to be as easy for DS as possible. This is all foreign to me as I went to a small all-girls private school, but DH did the huge high school thing.

I don't have an opinion on whether your DS needs to be red shirted or not but one thing that hasn't been brought up yet is that much of this depends on your area and school district. What is the norm there? Is is actually common to hold back a child who has a Dec birthday? That seems old since he will already be on the older side but I'm not one to discount the benefits of redshirting. DS1 missed the K cutoff by 10 days. I was beyond relieved that I never had to make a decision since it was almost made for me. His confidence is so much higher. DS2 also misses the cutoff closely. I've been asked if I would try to get him early entry into K. My answer is a very firm no. To put it in perspective though, they are Sept birthdays so only 3 months younger then your DS when they enter(ed) K.

[Kindra178]

With his birthday and that cutoff, unless there is something significantly delayed academically or socially I would not even entertain the thought of holding back. He'll be on the older side as it is.

The research simply does not support any benefit to redshirting, even borderline kids. I think it's normal to feel like your husband, that his experience is the best, but it just isn't supported by the real facts. He probably would have had a fine time if he had gone on time too as I'm guessing he was just intelligent and athletically talented.

I've been researching it a lot as I have a July 17th boy in a state with an Aug 1 cutoff. He turns 5 this year. I just signed him up for K, but I am just keeping the right to change my mind at the last minute. Like I said, redshirting just because is not supported by research. The long term advantages are just not there. In fact, there might be more benefits to being younger, learning to work a little harder than to be older and have everything be too easy.

I think as someone else said, I'd rather just support him and make sure he is in a great school (he is) that will support him in his own age group than hold him back. We are going through language testing though, so if it turns out he needs significantly more help with language processing, I may reevaluate his case.

That is my take. I can look up my links to the research on it in a bit if you want.

I would love your research, just to compare to my mine. From personal experience, although I benefited from being older, I will say when the going got tough, I had a harder time going, because I was so used to school being on the easier side.

[Kindra178]

Yes, but the person (and I don't know if it's you or someone else), said he'd be 1.5 years old than everyone else in the class. Clearly, it's not the case. I'm sure some of the summer kids will be held back, so some he'd only be 6 months older. Certainly, his class wouldn't be him plus everyone born in August 2008.

I understand what you are saying. August 2008 resonates with me because my twins miss that cut off by days. In my district, I could test them to push them ahead. In my home state, they would make the September 30 cut off.

[GvilleGirl]

I did the small elementary/middle to huge high school thing. We had less than 50 in the lower grades to almost 1000 just in the freshman class. There are a couple of feeder schools that had the same thing. The feeder and high schools did an excellent job of helping make this transition, and based on the suburbs you were looking at I would think that this would be the case as well. I think the amazing think about going to a large school is the amount of opportunities that they have, usually special teams/experiences just for freshman. I think transitioning from 8th to Freshman year can be difficult for a majority of students.

I would definitely talk to your teacher about how they view his behavior at school. I would not think of the social reason to hold him back. I think even confident children have moments when they are intimidated in social situations. When I was teaching a lot of parents were surprised (often in a good way) by the behaviors I saw at school that they never saw. The kids that I saw held back were mostly immaturity or academically.

[lmh2402]

If you think through to high school, he would turn 19 during his senior year and be almost 20 as a college freshman? The only kids who were that old in my high school were kids held back sometime during their school years for academic reasons, were always in special ed, etc. I agree with PP if he was that much older than other students I think the teachers might wonder why he was held back (where they would not wonder for a july, august kid).

this whole thread has been so interesting to read

but the above really stood out to me. i graduated from college at 21. obviously, i must have been on the younger side - never really thought too much about it

however, i do know that all my friends turned 21 either spring of junior year, summer between, or fall of senior year.

my honestly not-overly-researched opinion would fall in line with what i think the majority of the pps have said - i would not hold my DS back given the bdate and cut offs you are working with, unless there were a specific and significant delay or "issue" to be worked on. i most definitely wouldn't do it so he could be bigger or faster at any sport.

good luck with your decision, i am sure it's not an easy one...and it adds more things to think about and debate and research and worry over...to your plate when you're already trying to tackle a move! :hug:

[maestramommy]

We were seriously considering this for Arwyn, but after talking with our ped yesterday we are willing to trust her teachers and IEP team if they recommend not holding her back. Our ped told us it's not the cognitive that we should be concerned about it's the social. We haven't heard that Arwyn has any social issues. Our concerns are mostly communication and cognitive. His opinion was going ahead and send her to K, and if she just wasn't getting it, then she could repeat K. he didn't think there was much stigma attached to that, not like repeated 1st grade and higher.

But if your concerns for DS are more for social, why don't you talk to teacher, see if you can get any insights to how your DS appears to be doing. I am always amazed at the reports we get from school. It's like Arwyn is a different child. Right now anyway:p

ETA: wait a minute, I read your DS's bday wrong. So he's actually almost 5.5? ehhh, I dunno. I would really talk to the teacher before making a decision.

[janeybwild]

I'm not opposed to holding a child back, but the thought of an almost 7 yo in a kinde classroom seems just wrong. Won't he be bored academically? Socially out of touch with the 5 yo's, towering over them even? If your son is small statured, mild personality, on the shy side, then perhaps? Good luck with your decision.

[Cam&Clay]

IMO, there's older and there's OLDER. DS1 missed the cut-off for K by 2 days, so he is one of the oldest kids in his grade level (except for kids who were red-shirted). He can be as much as a year older than his peers and, let me tell you, it shows big time. He did hit puberty early, which didn't help. He didn't much like being the only 6 ft tall 6th grader (still in elementary school) who had to shave. He feels more comfortable now in middle school since the 8th graders are there.

I just cannot imagine a 7 year old kindergartener unless there is a serious developmental delay.

Sports are based on age until they get to high school anyway. He would still play sports with his peers, which would separate him even more from his classmates since they would all be on younger teams.

[nfceagles]

I have nothing against red-shirting for developmental reasons. As for sports, which I realize is not your only reason, does it bother anyone besides me that this sports advantage comes at the expense of other children? Children like my DS for example. He's a late July bday in a Dec 31 cutoff, so if not for redshirting he'd be just a tad bit younger than the average. Nov/Dec boys around here are frequently redshirted, so now he tends to be on the younger side, but not the very youngest. I'm ok with that redshirting, it's reasonable and usually due to maturity, but to do significantly more than that seems like an unfair competitive advantage.

I hope I didn't step in a hornets' nest, I was just surprised that after 9 pages of comments, nobody mentioned that angle.

[Calmegja2]

My son turned 7 at the tail end of kindergarten (end of April).

He isn't the biggest kid in his class, by any measure. He is thriving. All of my children are in talented and advanced programs, so they get proper academic support and stay engaged.

And for sports - he plays with his grade level, and his age level. It has been an issue- once- in soccer - and with soccer- the age cutoff caught many boys in it, even non redshirts. I will be honest - he is a fabulous athlete. He is. But he was always going to be a fabulous athlete- no matter when he started school. He was born that way.

There is some handwringing in this thread about red shirting.

It isn't for everyone. But it also isn't disastrous. If you have professional guidance you trust ( we did for our younger three- the first was redshirted based on moving from one state with an early cutoff to a state with a later cutoff), it can be a positive experience.

signed,

calmegja, mom to 4 redshirted kids, in a district with tons of redshirts, and where it seems to all be working out, but my youngest is the "oldest" redshirt I have ( though not the oldest kid in his grade)

[Calmegja2]

I have nothing against red-shirting for developmental reasons. As for sports, which I realize is not your only reason, does it bother anyone besides me that this sports advantage comes at the expense of other children? Children like my DS for example. He's a late July bday in a Dec 31 cutoff, so if not for redshirting he'd be just a tad bit younger than the average. Nov/Dec boys around here are frequently redshirted, so now he tends to be on the younger side, but not the very youngest. I'm ok with that redshirting, it's reasonable and usually due to maturity, but to do significantly more than that seems like an unfair competitive advantage.

I hope I didn't step in a hornets' nest, I was just surprised that after 9 pages of comments, nobody mentioned that angle.

I don't know how old your kids are- or what your experiences with sports are- but let me tell you- it is a whole different ball game ( horrible pun intended) than it used to be.

A slightly older child is the least of your worries. Trust me.

[wellyes]

I don't know how old your kids are- or what your experiences with sports are- but let me tell you- it is a whole different ball game ( horrible pun intended) than it used to be.

A slightly older child is the least of your worries. Trust me.
It isn't a whole different ballgame due to redshirting? Because that's what I hear about mostly.

Asking seriously.

[DrSally]

Tis is a very interesting discussion. I tend to agree w/pp's about talking to his teachers. For a developmentally normal kid with a December bday, I wouldn't hold back wo/ significant concerns. IMO, sports advantage and some social confidence issues are not enough. I would work with him on the social areas where you can. In some ways he reminds me of DS, who is socially well liked, but somewhat introverted. He seems to have more negative, global self talk than what actually happens IRL. For instance, he may say that so and so doesn't like him, and never plays with him, when I know that is an exaggeration by DS. It worries me b/c negative, global attributions are a risk factor for depression, so I'm trying to work on *those* (the thoughts and attributions, which affect mood) with him.

[*myfoursons]

My honest reaction? I wouldn't consider it.

DS 1 turned 7 in the fall and is one of the older kids in his 1st grade class (August cut-off). I can't fathom the idea of him in kindergarten with his younger brother right now.

IMO there is a huge maturation process between 5 and 7, and the differences in their respective sets of friends is substantial. I can't think of 1 child in DS 2's kindy class that would be a good match for DS 1 on a maturity level. I really can't, and this is knowing all the boys in the class.

Red-shirting is pretty common here, and ds 4 will miss the cutoff by a week, so it's something we'll deal with. We're pretty heavily into sports already, but I just don't understand it when the underlying reason is for a competitive advantage in sports (op, not saying that's your sole reason). And to a previous poster's point, yes, I think it's a little unfair to the other kids.

[DrSally]

I'm also just curious about those that have summer bdays, but August cut offs, and talk about holding back. If you don't make the cut off, you can't go, right. Or, is it more malleable than a hard cut off? DD has a late July bday. We have an Aug cut off-- can't remember if it is the 1st or30th. Would love to have her enter kindy when she's 5, rather than 6, if she's ready. IDk I can handle 3 years of preschool, lol

[elephantmeg]

I would not hold him back. FWIW DS was very timid etc in Pre K and has really blossomed in K. He just turned 6 and that seems to be the norm for his class-a lot turned 6 just into the school year/right before the school year. No one is turning 7 AFAIK.

[DrSally]

My son turned 7 at the tail end of kindergarten (end of April).

He isn't the biggest kid in his class, by any measure. He is thriving. All of my children are in talented and advanced programs, so they get proper academic support and stay engaged.

calmegja, mom to 4 redshirted kids, in a district with tons of redshirts, and where it seems to all be working out, but my youngest is the "oldest" redshirt I have ( though not the oldest kid in his grade)

I'm just curious, are your children in talented and advanced programs b/c they are too advanced for the curriculum at their grade level? If so, just wondering why you chose to redshirt? I realize there can be other reasons to redshirt other than academic, so feel free not to disclose if you don't want to.

[arivecchi]

I always wonder why these kind of threads get so heated! Is it so strange! Statutory rape??!!

In any event, DH has been discussing the issue with a good friend of his who is quite knowledgeable about this subject and she strongly supports delaying as well, so I think this is how it all got started. I now know there are lots of things to take into account and I thank everyone for their input. We will do what is best for DS though. I am not worried about how it will affect his classmates. I can only try to affect his educational experience. I am still waiting to hear from his teacher and I guess we will decide after we discuss the issue with her. That will obviously play a huge role.

Thanks to those who answered my question in the OP.

[lilycat88]

ETA: We'll be fielding questions about red-shirting DS2, I'm sure, since he's got a June bday and gets speech therapy. It is not my plan at all to hold him back, but rather to help him reach his full potential where he should be.

We'll be right there with you but a year later. DS's birthday is mid June and he's already started speech therapy. August 1 cut off. DD is an end of June birthday and is only 7 in the second grade.

[justlearning]

My DS2 was born in Dec. 2005 and he started K this year. I couldn't imagine holding him back for a year--he's already one of the older kids in his class. My DS1 has a May birthday and I started him on time too.

In DS1's class last year and again this year there was a boy (not the same one) who was nearly 2 years older than DS1. Those boys are much bigger (taller, stronger) than the other kids in class and seem socially awkward because they really stand out as being different. I have assumed that they were held back a year due to academic deficiencies. So if you do decide to redshirt, be prepared to have others assume that your child was struggling and had to repeat a year. And be prepared to help your son with self esteem issues if he feels like others think he's not smart and if he doesn't feel like he fits in.

That may not happen, of course. You could redshirt him and he could end up being the most confident, popular kid in class. But I think it's important for your DH to realize the potential negative effects of redshirting a child with a Dec. birthday.

[MissyAg94]

I'm also just curious about those that have summer bdays, but August cut offs, and talk about holding back. If you don't make the cut off, you can't go, right. Or, is it more malleable than a hard cut off? DD has a late July bday. We have an Aug cut off-- can't remember if it is the 1st or30th. Would love to have her enter kindy when she's 5, rather than 6, if she's ready. IDk I can handle 3 years of preschool, lol

If she turns five in July and the cutoff is in August, then she can go.

[ett]

I've just skimmed through this entire thread and I agree with many reasons that PP have already stated against red-shirting your DS. So I will not repeat those again.

The reasons you've stated for holding your DS back may just be related to his personality, so waiting a year will not change anything. And if you do think there is a problem (and it's not just personality related), then he will need extra help/intervention which he can get at school. Holding him back a year may just delay the help he needs by a year.

Please do talk to his preschool teachers and your pediatrician. They should be able to provide you some insight into your situation.

[arivecchi]

The reasons you've stated for holding your DS back may just be related to his personality, so waiting a year will not change anything. And if you do think there is a problem (and it's not just personality related), then he will need extra help/intervention which he can get at school. Holding him back a year may just delay the help he needs by a year. We do think the issues are related to maturity and his personality which is precisely why DH thought more time might help. I know I definitely felt more confident as I got older. In any event, we are not even close to making a decision yet. We are just exploring the pros and cons. That is why in the OP I had asked for the input of parents that had seriously considered delaying. I wanted to hear about the things they had taken into account but my question somehow got lost in the body of the thread.

[Melbel]

We do think the issues are related to maturity and his personality which is precisely why DH thought more time might help. I know I definitely felt more confident as I got older. In any event, we are not even close to making a decision yet. We are just exploring the pros and cons. That is why in the OP I had asked for the input of parents that had seriously considered delaying. I wanted to hear about the things they had taken into account but my question somehow got lost in the body of the thread.

Sorry if we got off track with your original question. You have proven to be a very thoughtful, caring parent and I have no doubt you will make the best informed decision for your son based upon the input of his teachers, pediatrician, etc. :hug:

[DrSally]

If she turns five in July and the cutoff is in August, then she can go.

Oh, duh! Lol, man I must be losing it.

Eta: for some reason, i thought she didn't make the cut off, so I'm thinking it may actually be July 1.

[Green_Tea]

We are just exploring the pros and cons. That is why in the OP I had asked for the input of parents that had seriously considered delaying. I wanted to hear about the things they had taken into account but my question somehow got lost in the body of the thread.

I'm sorry your question got lost in the fray. :hug:

We did seriously consider delaying DS. He is an August birthday, and our town cut-off is Dec. 31 (so he made the cut-off by 4 months.) We considered delaying because DS is tiny for his age, and rather immature behavior wise. He is not the model of decorum that his sisters were in K ;).

Ultimately we sent him for a few reasons:
1) He was completely and totally ready academically, and I was worried that holding him back a year would have caused him to be bored when he finally did reach K. As it was, he was pretty bored for the first 8 weeks anyway, because a lot of time is spent bring all the kids up to speed (even in our fairly affluent, highly educated suburb where 90%+ of kids attend preschool, not all the kids were on the same page in terms of knowing their letters and numbers, writing their name, following directions, etc.).

2) A wise former teacher told me that his issues were personality based, and they weren't something he'd outgrow. I believe she was right.

3) I was concerned that if we were to hold him back, and he was already reading and writing when he reached K, that he wouldn't get the kind of attention he needed to be challenged at his level. In our town, K teachers are dealing with kids who are not yet 5 years old, and they're NEEDY! A child who is almost 7 and well ahead of his peers is not going to be the teacher's priority, and, honestly, I don't know that it would be fair to expect that he would have been. Teachers' plates are pretty full just meeting the needs of the kids who start on time. DD1 - who started on time, but has a Jan birthday so was one of the oldest - was a VERY advanced reader by the end of K, but her teacher was too busy making sure that the average and lower than average readers were up to speed, and simply couldn't offer her a high level of differentiated instruction. Our school system doesn't offer a gifted program until 4th grade, so we were pretty much on our own to make sure DD was engaged and challenged.

We were not worried that DS would have a hard time socially if held back, simply because he's pretty immature :D. But I have a good friend who redshirted her June son (he met the cutoff by 6 months) and he's in K now and she feels that the other kids, some of whom were not yet 5 when they started, are very immature compared to her son. He's struggling to find his place (socially) in the class. He's a naturally shy and reserved kid, and is having a hard time relating to his classmates, who he finds kind of babyish. He makes MY kindergartener look like a terror. I can't help but wonder if he would have been better off with a same-age cohort.

I can't speak to the sports thing. Honestly, it's way too soon to know if he'll even want to play sports competitively. I am sort of baffled by the idea of it being a a widely accepted reason to redshirt - if I redshirted my otherwise ready kindergartener so I could ensure that they'd have an extra year of violin or voice or dance training before applying to Julliard, people would call me a crazy Tiger Mom and say that I was trying to live out my own dreams through my kids. *I'm* not sure why sports are viewed differently, but based on some of the responses from sports-minded parents, I must be missing something! Not dissing sports at all (2 of my 3 kids love to play!), but the chances of an athletic scholarship or professional play down the road are pretty slim. You'd do better to encourage him to be a bassoon player for that ;).

ETA: DS is doing completely fine in K - he's doing great academically, is well liked and happy, and hasn't had any issues with his peers. Many of his friends seem to be just as immature and impulsive!

[sariana]

You'd do better to encourage him to be a bassoon player for that :jammin: We always need more bassoonists! (I miss playing so much! Have to start a community band--on my list of things to do.)

I just want to comment on the maturity issue, or rather ask a question. If a child is immature, how is being around younger children going to help with that? I was very young for my grade, but I tended to "act the age" of whoever I was hanging out with. I think in some ways I was more mature freshman and sophomore years because everyone was older than I. I was in marching band and taking foreign language classes, both of which forced me to interact with juniors and seniors. By the time I was a senior, I had many friends who were freshman and sophomores (because of band). So my social interactions were at their level.

I also was involved in extracurricular actvities that caused me to be around people who in some cases were much older than I (played in a university orchestra when I was only 14, e.g.--because I play the bassoon ;)). I was able to interact appropriately because I just followed their example.

I know my examples are from the later years, but I think the same principle holds true for the younger grades. An immature 6 or 7 year old is not going to learn to be more mature by hanging out with 5 year olds.

Just my two cents. But I'll admit I'm not a fan of red shirting in general.

[ett]

We do think the issues are related to maturity and his personality which is precisely why DH thought more time might help. I know I definitely felt more confident as I got older. In any event, we are not even close to making a decision yet. We are just exploring the pros and cons. That is why in the OP I had asked for the input of parents that had seriously considered delaying. I wanted to hear about the things they had taken into account but my question somehow got lost in the body of the thread.

To answer your OP question, DS1 has an August birthday. (9/1 cutoff in our school district.) Our situation is different from yours in that DS1 is on the spectrum (high functioning) and was already receiving services in the public preschool. We had asked his preschool teachers whether he could benefit from being held back, given that he would be one of the youngest in his class. They suggested against it for several reasons. One is that he would not qualify for services in the public preschool if we held him back. (which would not pertain in your situation.) So we would have to enroll him in a private preschool. Second, he is already academically ahead, so we run the risk of him being bored (and causing trouble) if we held him back. And finally, he was behind in social skills because he did not pick up on it naturally (as is the case with kids on the spectrum) and needed to be taught these things specifically. Holding him back would have not helped him with his social skills. The speech therapy and lunch/social skills group that he had in school is what he needed. So we did not hold him back. DS1 is in 3rd grade now and is doing very well academically. His social skills have also continue to improve with the support he has in school.

Good luck with your decision!

[crl]

Just a very minor point. Despite being the oldest AND being 90th percentile in height, ds has never been the tallest kid in his class. As a parent who did redshirt, I never thought this was a particularly important point.

Catherine

[crl]

. . One is that he would not qualify for services in the public preschool if we held him back. (which would not pertain in your situation.) So we would have to enroll him in a private preschool.

Good luck with your decision!

Just FYI for anyone else who may face this. Our district tried to tell us this. I argued my way up the chain and even called the state omsbudsman for special education and finally got an extra year of public preschool for my special Ed student. I don't know that the results would be the same elsewhere, but if a parent really thinks an extra year is best (we had decided to pay for private if we had to), ime it is worth the fight.

Catherine

[bisous]

I have an October birthday kid and a summer birthday kid. I "redshirted" one (in quotes because in many systems he would automatically be held back but we have a December cutoff) and I'm putting one ahead.

October 03 birthday kid I did "hold back". He was five turning six when he began K. This was a no brainer for me. He is socially immature (though bright) and even today he fits best with kids that are a little younger than he. Why does this work? It isn't that he is learning bad habits from younger kids or not learning good habits and skills from older kids--it is just that he fits with kids that are a bit younger than he. He plays the same games, he laughs at the same jokes, he struggles with the same social ideas, etc. Younger kids think he is awesome. Older kids think he is an odd duck a bit, lol. He really does fit. He's a 90th percentile child and is one of the tallest kids in the class but not THE tallest kid in the class. Of course, your child (OP) would be nearly a year older than my son (with respect to his peers) so there's that to consider.

Now, I have a July 07 birthday that WILL be starting K in the fall. He will be 5yo but we're putting him in any way. Why? Because he's very mature socially. He's totally ready academically and seeks out older kids because the stuff he likes to do fits better with them. He's also a tiny little peanut. He's only 19th percentile in height and will be among the youngest kids in the class.

But I simply cannot keep him back because he is small and young. He is SO ready for school and that's all there is to it! FWIW I fully expect that he will be socially and academically at the top of the class. Sports, not in a million year but that's not his strong point, lol.

HTH,

[[email protected]]

I have a son with a late November birthday (CA used to have a 12/2 cutoff but that has changed to 11/1 and will gradually revert to a 9/1 cutoff) and we struggled with whether or not to hold our son back. We waited a year and sent him. He is one of the oldest kids in his class. The majority of 2005 kids in his class were October, November and December birthdays. I know of two summer birthday kids (July) in the school but none further back than May. Our area is well known for redshirting.

Holding your son back may backfire. DS thinks that he's the oldest in his class (he's not) and expects to be the best at everything because he's the biggest. It doesn't always work that way--some kids are reading chapter books and some are still better than him at basketball. It was a blow to his ego. Also, I remember that in middle school unless you were both good at sports and smart, it was not easier to be older or bigger. Kids presumed that the big kids who weren't in algebra and honors English class were considered "dumb."

My daughter is a month older than your son. She'll be starting kindy in September. Although she struggles mightily with fine motor skills, I'd never consider delaying kindergarten entry. I'll fork out the money for specialized OT if she's still not writing her name in May, but she's going to school on time.

[o_mom]

We do think the issues are related to maturity and his personality which is precisely why DH thought more time might help. I know I definitely felt more confident as I got older. In any event, we are not even close to making a decision yet. We are just exploring the pros and cons. That is why in the OP I had asked for the input of parents that had seriously considered delaying. I wanted to hear about the things they had taken into account but my question somehow got lost in the body of the thread.

I think the reason you are getting somewhat tangential responses is that most people, even those very pro-redshirting, would not even consider it for a child that was almost 10 months older than the cutoff (eta: especially for a Sept. cutoff date). When I read the responses, most are something like this:

"We delayed (or considered it), but our child was only 0-2 months from the cutoff. We would not even consider it in your situation."

Since most did not consider it, they responded with the reasons they did not. Only one poster that I saw said they had red-shirted with a similar age situation. It was for much different concerns and they were still not sure that it was the best decision.

[Calmegja2]

I'm just curious, are your children in talented and advanced programs b/c they are too advanced for the curriculum at their grade level? If so, just wondering why you chose to redshirt? I realize there can be other reasons to redshirt other than academic, so feel free not to disclose if you don't want to.

Because they were always going to be smart- and in those programs ( my spouse and I were, way back when, too- and I was a redshirt, and he was not). But we were more comfortable, with the younger three, on advice of their preschool teachers- on having them be older when they started ( two of them have November birthdays, with a December cutoff, the other has an April birthday ). I was not going to send 4 year olds to kindergarten, with regards to the November birthdays. Kids don't end up in the programs with extra material because of age or boredom. It's because of ability. The screening is more involved than that ( and my youngest was just screened and placed this academic year- which is standard for our district).

It is more than just academics. It's social maturity and other factors. My youngest was painfully shy and would stand in his cubby at preschool backwards, not ready to interact with other kids. He needed time and getting used to routines in preschool before he would have blossomed in school ( and at the third grade dance last month- he was the kid in the middle leading all he other kids in a line dance. Shyness over. LOL)

Redshirting has very, very little to do with academic ability. We have been complimented by every teacher we have come across on our children's school attitudes and abilities. But academically- none of my children needed an extra year for school to start. But that wasn't why we redshirted- and native academic intelligence doesn't change with waiting the year, either.

It is a complicated decision to make- and a lot of people on the Internet ( because it hasn't been my experience in real life)- tend not to redshirt, and to say that their kids are intelligent enough to handle starting school at the earliest date. But that isn't what it's about.

I have older kids, so I see how it has played out as my kids go through school ( my eldest is in high school)- for kids on both sides of the coin of redshirting. I have never been sorry, never regretted it, and I would do it again tomorrow, twice. :)

[Calmegja2]

It isn't a whole different ballgame due to redshirting? Because that's what I hear about mostly.

Asking seriously.

No. Kids start training, year round, for sports, in second grade. They have trainers. They practice 4 nights a week. They play club levels sports- which costs thousands, and requires family travel most weekends, to go meet other teams made up of similarly obsessed families. And in those families- the things that some parents do? Would blow your hair back.

To make high school sports in our area- you pretty much have to decide in second grade , and start putting in the time. It's highly competitive, and crazy making, and the stuff I have said above? Tip of the iceberg.

I know 8 year olds who have private athletic trainers 3x a week.

So, again- I am very sure it isn't redshirting. It's a whole attitude and intensity that I never witnessed growing up.

There are lower level sports team, the rec clubs- but those kids get shut out of middle school and high school teams.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Duh, I could answer your OP better. I have a summer boy and a 9/1 cut off. We sent him. None of the research was compelling to hold him back. Posters on here helped me search the ERIC database. At best, redshirting was a gray area. Mostly it showed that if your kid was struggling in some social areas, there is probably somethimg else at play and holding them back wasn't going to change that. At the end of the day, I left the decision in the hands of preschool. They said go and we did.

Ds1 complains sometimes about being among the youngest. I remind him that he is also among the top in his class- and reinforce how awesome that is that he is almost a full year younger than some and still doing so well academically.

And socially? He has some quirks. It took me some time to accept this but the day I did was a relief; he is who he is! I could have held him out several times and it wouldn't have changed anything.

Do I 100% think I made the right choice? No. But, I think I made the best choice I could and he is doing well. Academics, like I said, is great. They were the reason to send him on time. His preschool knew he could do the work and would be bored to tears being a year behind. And socially, he has come along super well, has friends and is happy. Is he a leader? No. But, that isn't his personality and never was even when he was one of the oldest in preschool.

[GvilleGirl]

When I making this decision last year, someone posted a really helpful article written by a Yale professor about redshirting. Does anyone remember that?


Not Yale, but this one was interesting....
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/opinion/sunday/dont-delay-your-kindergartners-start.html?_r=1

This page also has a link to a lot of great links and article abstracts to the research. http://illinoisearlylearning.org/faqs/redshirting.htm

[Calmegja2]

I remember that NYT article.And when I first saw it- I panicked. Until I went over the research myself . Then I did not panic. :lol

Little things like how they say that redshirts earn less? That is based on saying they enter the work force am academic year later than most people born in their birth year, so their lifetime income misses a year ( an the research dings parental income for the extra year that some parents would be home with their redshirted child- which is a can of worms I will leave alone).

But? I say to the fact that graduating later means you start earning money later? Duh. :p ;) That happens for lots of reasons- extra schooling, length of time an individual takes for school, training, whatever. It's not compelling.

And don't get me started on the dropout stats. It's apples and oranges and so reaching I am amazed people's arms didn't pop out of their sockets. Correlation is not causation.

Redshirt if you wish to- and you have the support of professionals who know your child. And don't if you don't wish to. But the research on this is far spottier than it appears- and very mixed- in the end analysis- so you have to do what is best for your family, and your child. And drown out the crowd.

[dogmom]

I always wonder why these kind of threads get so heated! Is it so strange! Statutory rape??!!

In any event, DH has been discussing the issue with a good friend of his who is quite knowledgeable about this subject and she strongly supports delaying as well, so I think this is how it all got started. I now know there are lots of things to take into account and I thank everyone for their input. We will do what is best for DS though. I am not worried about how it will affect his classmates. I can only try to affect his educational experience. I am still waiting to hear from his teacher and I guess we will decide after we discuss the issue with her. That will obviously play a huge role.

Thanks to those who answered my question in the OP.
I'm the one that brought up statutory rape. I in know way wanted it to get heated, but to point out a fact I'm sure most of us dealing with the preschool to early school set would not think of. Such as your 19 yo son getting charged with rape with his sophomore girlfriend because some parent doesn't like their relationship. I've seen things like that. I would definitely consider the consequences of him being 18 during his Junior year in high school as factor to consider. I don't see how that is off target. I mention because two of my friends who are dealing with very real issues of having their children turn 18 during high school, one before he got into his senior year. So yes, my son turned has a January birthday and I would have not held him back because of just that issue. For me the age gap with his peers would have been too big, so I guess I never seriously entertained the issue when something came up when he was 4, just because of that. It was too big of an issue for me.

[crl]

I agree that it is important to look at the end game too. Ds will be 18 for his entire senior year. I turned 18 during my senior year as did dh (both of us spring birthdays, not held back). My brother who was held back turned 18 at the beginning of his senior year. It could have consequences. I was able to sign my own permission form for a field trip, for example. I came home and announced that I was gong to Chicago overnight with the Latin Club. Fortunately my parents were fine with me making those kinds of decisions for myself at that point so it wasn't a conflict. We thought it through and decided we were okay with ds being 18 for his senior year and taking what we judged to be a small risk that he would make mistakes that would be more serious because of his age.

(For whatever reason, dh did the math wrong and thought momentarily that ds would be 19 in high school and he thought that just sounded so wrong that he couldn't accept it. When we went over the numbers together and he realized it was 18 and that he and I had both turned 18 during our senior years, he got over that objection.)

Catherine

[nfowife]

I live in an area where redshirting of summer boys is very extremely popular. I have a Jan.07 boy in pre-k and it would be pretty much unheard of to hold back a child with a winter birthday unless there was a real, teacher-recommended reason for it. So personally, I would send him to kindy next year and see what the teacher says (unless the teacher this year is indicating concern, which she should have already shared with you at this point). Also I taught k-2 (mostly first) grades for 6 years prior to DD1 and never had any students with Nov-Feb. birthdays voluntarily redshirted. The attitude where I currently live is that it isn't something you are forced to decide unless your child has at earliest, a May birthday.
So, that's my take.

[KrisM]

I always wonder why these kind of threads get so heated! Is it so strange! Statutory rape??!!

In any event, DH has been discussing the issue with a good friend of his who is quite knowledgeable about this subject and she strongly supports delaying as well, so I think this is how it all got started. I now know there are lots of things to take into account and I thank everyone for their input. We will do what is best for DS though. I am not worried about how it will affect his classmates. I can only try to affect his educational experience. I am still waiting to hear from his teacher and I guess we will decide after we discuss the issue with her. That will obviously play a huge role.

Thanks to those who answered my question in the OP.

I do think you have to consider his classmates a bit, as that will affect your DS. For example, my DD will turn 14 just before 9th grade. Your DS would soon turn 16. I would not let my just 14 year old date a 16 year old. Not going to happen! So, would your DS end up dating girls in 10th and 11th grade to get the right age match up? Or would he be more of an outsider? There are other side-effects like that that will affect your DS, I would think.

[KrisM]

Also, if you hold him back, check your state and local truancy and compulsary enrollment laws. In Michigan, it says

"A child becoming 6 years of age before December 1 shall be enrolled on the first school day of the school year in which the child's sixth birthday occurs, and a child becoming 6 years of age on or after December 1 shall be enrolled on the first school day of the school year following the school year in which the child's sixth birthday occurs."

So, he'd have to be enrolled sometime this year, according to that. There are many exceptions, including homeschooling. I don't know if anything happens or if you have to register as a homeschooler, etc.

[wellyes]

Sorry to go ot, but I want to address this:

No. Kids start training, year round, for sports, in second grade. They have trainers. They practice 4 nights a week. They play club levels sports- which costs thousands, and requires family travel most weekends, to go meet other teams made up of similarly obsessed families. And in those families- the things that some parents do? Would blow your hair back.

To make high school sports in our area- you pretty much have to decide in second grade , and start putting in the time. It's highly competitive, and crazy making, and the stuff I have said above? Tip of the iceberg.

I know 8 year olds who have private athletic trainers 3x a week.

So, again- I am very sure it isn't redshirting. It's a whole attitude and intensity that I never witnessed growing up.

There are lower level sports team, the rec clubs- but those kids get shut out of middle school and high school teams.

I know that stuff happens, but I do not believe that any child who isn't fully devoted by 2nd grade won't be allowed to play high school sports. Sports are a very big deal in my region, but the kids who play at a high level all get scouted to private schools or boarding schools. You want to play college level sports at a big school, yes you need to come from a feeder school. But if you are OK with your child being on a "lower level team" (like the public high school teams) then there are lots of opportunities where I am.

But I can see a very large school with a competitive sports environment being that way, and that impacting the overall redshirting level.

[Kindra178]

Also, if you hold him back, check your state and local truancy and compulsary enrollment laws. In Michigan, it says

"A child becoming 6 years of age before December 1 shall be enrolled on the first school day of the school year in which the child's sixth birthday occurs, and a child becoming 6 years of age on or after December 1 shall be enrolled on the first school day of the school year following the school year in which the child's sixth birthday occurs."

So, he'd have to be enrolled sometime this year, according to that. There are many exceptions, including homeschooling. I don't know if anything happens or if you have to register as a homeschooler, etc.

The age of compulsory education is 7 in IL.

[daisysmom]

If OP is still reading... I did just want to say that another side to this is working with your spouse to determine the best place for your DC. We are dealing with this on the kidergarten front for our DD b/c she was accepted into 2 schools, one is co-ed and one is all-girls. Both are good, but very different environments. My DH and I have talked this issue *to death*. While neither of us have said "I know her better so I should get to choose!", I am fairly confident that we both have thought it. Not to say that you might find yourself in the same situation, but if so, just wanted to say that adds a tough dimension on itself.

I am imagining that I am kind of like your husband on this point, as with DD, I was strongly in favor of a co-ed school because I always went co-ed, I am confident in the advantages it gave me, etc. He wanted to research more the benefits of single sex. I was more of a "gut" decisioin maker. He is more analytical.

In the end, we chose the co-ed school today. It has been a tough week of deciding. And frankly, a tough 6 months of considering. I just hope that you all can take all this advice with a grain of salt and know that everyone has an opinion but you will do the right thing for your kiddos!

[Clarity]

I'm the one that brought up statutory rape. I in know way wanted it to get heated, but to point out a fact I'm sure most of us dealing with the preschool to early school set would not think of. Such as your 19 yo son getting charged with rape with his sophomore girlfriend because some parent doesn't like their relationship. I've seen things like that. I would definitely consider the consequences of him being 18 during his Junior year in high school as factor to consider. I don't see how that is off target. I mention because two of my friends who are dealing with very real issues of having their children turn 18 during high school, one before he got into his senior year. So yes, my son turned has a January birthday and I would have not held him back because of just that issue. For me the age gap with his peers would have been too big, so I guess I never seriously entertained the issue when something came up when he was 4, just because of that. It was too big of an issue for me.

Arivecchi, I know you were taken aback by the mention of statutory rape but like dogmom, it actually crossed my mind as well. I thought of it only because we had a statutory rape situation in a local district where a 19 year old senior in high school was brought up on charges for dating a 15 year old freshman. Do I think that will happen to your child? Heck no, it's unlikely. But in generalities, it does become something to think about as we ponder how to handle situations that fall outside the norm.

[justlearning]

Duh, I could answer your OP better. I have a summer boy and a 9/1 cut off. We sent him. None of the research was compelling to hold him back. Posters on here helped me search the ERIC database. At best, redshirting was a gray area. Mostly it showed that if your kid was struggling in some social areas, there is probably somethimg else at play and holding them back wasn't going to change that. At the end of the day, I left the decision in the hands of preschool. They said go and we did.

Ds1 complains sometimes about being among the youngest. I remind him that he is also among the top in his class- and reinforce how awesome that is that he is almost a full year younger than some and still doing so well academically.

And socially? He has some quirks. It took me some time to accept this but the day I did was a relief; he is who he is! I could have held him out several times and it wouldn't have changed anything.

Do I 100% think I made the right choice? No. But, I think I made the best choice I could and he is doing well. Academics, like I said, is great. They were the reason to send him on time. His preschool knew he could do the work and would be bored to tears being a year behind. And socially, he has come along super well, has friends and is happy. Is he a leader? No. But, that isn't his personality and never was even when he was one of the oldest in preschool.

This is very similar to our experience with DS1, who's in 3rd grade now. His birthday is the middle of May and his school's cutoff date is June 1 (earlier than other schools due to it being a charter school that's more academically rigorous than others). So DH and I did talk about redshirting him, especially considering the fact that he was very shy and didn't speak much in pre-K.

His pre-K teacher told me about the middle of the year that she would recommend holding him back so he could mature more--she said that she is a fan of redshirting when the birthday is close to the cutoff. But as the school year went on, she realized how smart my son was and then told me that my son would be very bored repeating pre-K and that she thought he should start K on time.

We took her recommendation about his academic preparedness and combined it with the fact that our son was in the 95th+ percentile for height and decided that we didn't want him to feel awkward being bigger than the rest of the kids, which he likely would be if we held him back.

So we started him on time and he has been the youngest in his class (but he never complains about that). But he's always been at the top of his class academically so I think it was the right decision (although sometimes I wonder what it would have been like if we held him back). He's also become more confident and outgoing over the years and seems to fit in fine with his classmates. Is he a leader? No. But that's not his personality and I don't think his personality would be any different if we had held him back a year.

Is he good in sports? No but he's never been good in sports nor cares about being good in them (even though he's been in rec leagues since he was 3). But he has an amazing mind and is participating in a summer program for gifted students this year. So perhaps he can one day get an academic scholarship instead of a sports scholarship. :)

But like another poster said, probably the reason that you haven't gotten a lot of these responses is that most parents consider redshirting when a birthday is a few days or a few months before the cutoff date. For a December birthday (like my DS2), I don't think most parents even think about redshirting their kid. I know that it never crossed my mind with DS2, even though the cutoff date is June 1.

ETA that regarding the statutory rape issue, I have something else to add--in our state at least, being convicted of that stays on your record. A few years ago, I did a search in a sex offender database. A person came up that lives a street over from us (it listed his name and address), which freaked me out. I warned my friend about him and it turns out that she has been friends with the man and his family for years. She said that the conviction came back when he was 19 and his girlfriend was 16, and the parents got upset about them having sex and got him convicted of statutory rape.

[smilequeen]

You know I answered you from the perspective of having a child very near the cutoff, but it didn't occur to me to reply based on having a child with a very similar birthday who is now in 1st grade. My oldest has a late November birthday so he started K at 5.75, turned 6 a few months in. We are at a private school with mixed age groups and I volunteer a lot so I get a perspective on kids at a lot of different points.

My son, with that birthday, was most definitely already at an advantage in K and still in 1st. In fact, most of the naturally older kids (August-December) seem to have a slight advantage. The kids who were held back (generally June and July birthdays) are not. Most of them are behind the naturally older kids. And I knew them in preschool and they weren't...it's almost like that extra year of preschool delayed their maturation a little. But the kids who are naturally older are definitely doing well. Your son would be in that group. What I think is that advantage will decrease over time and I have to work to make sure he stays challenged and knows he has to work hard b/c I think that's where the younger kids end up with an advantage in HS. My mom and a friend of mine are HS teachers and say that their younger kids do tend to get better grades and work harder and that is supported by research. So, that colored my perspective for my younger kid...I can support him and get him through K/1st at a younger age and I think he'll be better off in the long run for having to work a little harder when he's younger. So my middle guy...he's very bright, but he has to work harder b/c he's younger and that's going to be good for him IMO. :) But obviously, your husband totally has the point that he's successful having been the oldest instead, right?

Also on the sports...my oldest is kind of an athletic golden boy it seems. Who knew? I wasn't. DH was an awesome swimmer but never tried anything else. My brother was very athletic though. But we had no, ZERO, indication that he was athletic when he was younger. It was like a light switch at 5.5. We signed up for little league b/c all of the incoming K boys in his school signed up together. Turns out he was good. Then he took skating lessons that summer. We'd tried before and it was just OK...he didn't want to keep it up and he didn't progress really. He could stand up and march and that was it. But that summer in 2 days he had flown through all of the beginner levels and was racing older kids down the ice. We really had no idea. And really, for his sport...hockey, his birthday SHOULD be a disadvantage as it goes by birth year. But he's not. He made the top group his first year playing and almost everyone (except for one kid) is older than him. A few turned 9 in January and he turned 7 in November. I don't think holding him out a year would make a bit of difference. Sports are important to us too for sure...we have one of those kids in private lessons before school in first grade so...I remember you guys might have been worried about that...maybe my son's experience could be reassuring :)

[sste]

Smilequeen, did your boy that became athletic seem uncoordinated during his preschool years. Sorry to go OT but I am very interested in this as my DS is quite uncoordinated, in part due to vision but seemingly in part he is just uncoordinated. I have been a little concerned I have given up on him too early for the major team sports, self-fulfililng prophecy, m. jordan was cut from his hs basketball team, etc. Your story gave me pause!

In our case there is no hope of big college level athletics in a major team sport that I can think of - - if nothing else we are all too short.

But, last weekend DS was at his private swim lesson and I was with his grandparents on the observation deck and my DH was by the side of the pool. DS was floating on this back beautifully and he had both hands lifted up waving to us excitedly as he kicked all the way across the pool. When he got out of the pool I ran downstairs and DS was just vibrating with happiness. It was palpable. I could see the "magic" Elektra has talked about with sports. I would love for DS to have some of that in his childhood - - it doesn't matter to us how good he is but that he feels that sense of joy and enthusiasm.

[wimama]

I would never consider red shirting a kid with a December birthday, unless there was a known underlying learning disability. I can see red shirting a child with a May through August birthday in a school with a September cut off, but I do not think you will gain anything by red shirting your DS. By redshirting him, I would think being that much older would make him feel socially awkward and bored academically.

My son is in kindergarten now and he has a late spring 2006 birthday. He is one of the youngest in his class. This is his second year at his school. Last year he went to 4 year old kindergarten at the same school. When he started you definately see the affect the my DS's younger age had on him socially. He had trouble learning had to respond to certain social circumstances. But one year later, that social difference has faded away. He is doing very well socially in kindergarten (K5). While my DS is one of the youngest in his class, he is also one of the brightest academically and I think some of his occasional behavioral issues he does have in school, stem from him being bored with the material. Holding my DS back to start K5 in Fall 2012 would be definately be the wrong choice for my DS. He would be beyond bored if we waited to send him to K5 until next year.

Your DS will already have a natural advantage being one of the oldest in the class with a December birthday. I really don't think he will gain any additional advantage by waiting out an additional year to start kindergarten. Waiting an additional year might actually be a disadvantage for all the reasons the previous posters have suggested.

Anyway, good luck to you in making your decision. We wrestled the decision of which school to send my DS to and now that he has been at his school for a year and a half now, I am relieved that I believe we made the right choice for him.

[vludmilla]

You asked for the thoughts of parents who considered red-shirting so I'll tell you about our decision. DD was a 32 week preemie who should have been born in late October but was born in late August. She was a very healthy preemie with no complications and no known health-related problems. NYS has a December 1st cut off so had she been born full term, she would definitely be close to the cut off. I agonized over red shirting her. I was worried that we were pushing her into academics too quickly. I was worried that she would seem small in comparison to other children. I was worried that she tends to be shy and very sensitive and only ever wanted to play with boys (and to my horror would be downright rude to little girls who tried to play with her). Despite these factors, almost everyone I spoke to when I was considering red shirting DD thought I should send her on time. Academically, she was ready. She's a little math whiz it seems and her background knowledge and vocabulary are advanced for her age. Her preschool teachers beseeched me not to keep her back as they insisted that she would get bored. As it has turned out, DD is doing very well socially and academically in kindergarten. She is not the smallest in her class as I had feared as she grew over the summer. She has learned to play with girls quite beautifully and has lots of friends. She is certainly not the queen bee kind of girl but she is liked by all it seems and I see her playing with all of the girls in her class. I am glad that I sent her on time. I think she would have wondered why she was still in preschool when her neighborhood friend (who lives right behind us) is in kindergarten and is nearly the same age. I think she would have liked the play aspect of an additional year of preschool but I think she would be bored with the lack of additional stimulation. She is so proud of all that she is learning in school and seems to eat it up. I think having a child enjoy school in the early years (i.e., not too hard, not too easy) is essential for later success in school. I don't think my decision not to red shirt is the only correct decision but I do think it was the best for my DD, in retrospect.

[smilequeen]

Smilequeen, did your boy that became athletic seem uncoordinated during his preschool years. Sorry to go OT but I am very interested in this as my DS is quite uncoordinated, in part due to vision but seemingly in part he is just uncoordinated. I have been a little concerned I have given up on him too early for the major team sports, self-fulfililng prophecy, m. jordan was cut from his hs basketball team, etc. Your story gave me pause!


I don't think he was uncoordinated, he just didn't want to do anything. I'd sign him up for soccer and he'd stand in the middle of the field chatting. He didn't want to do things, no interest.

[kellij]

My kids are in k and first right now, with my first grader having a December bday.

My daughter in K comes home all the time talking about so and so is my BFF and now she isn't, etc. Your son saying that about so and so being friends, but not with him, sounds right on par for typical k behavior.

My biggest concern would be that he might get bored in the classes. There is a little girl in my DD's k class that is repeating K. She stands out because she is so much taller than all of the other kids. Her parents held her back because the K teacher last year recommended it. Well, they just tested her for gt because she's getting really bored with regular class work.

Also, how serious is the sporting situation? I mean, is your son likely to go on to be a college-level athlete? I am someone who values academics and a good education more than sports (I still they are important and good for kids, just not as important), so my decision would weigh much more on the academic side of an education rather than sporting opportunities. I feel like for the vast majority of people your education will affect your success in your career more than how well you played sports growing up. My kids are much more likely to be mathletes than athletes, so that may color my perspective.

[niccig]

Because older kids are interested in different things. A favorite game of k'ers at DS1's school is like a chase tag game. The k'ers don't play that with the 2nd graders, even though they are in the same class, because the 2nd graders would destroy them. Put another way, the 2nd graders are bigger, taller and faster. Even the shorter 2nd graders are a head taller than my 80th percentile young for the grader k'er. Further, standing out when you that young isn't necessarily a good thing. Even is he is short, he will be SO much taller.



And parents may not want your bigger, older kid who is interested in older things playing with their younger child.

We have this in DS's class. The cutoff is Dec 1, and there is one boy with a July birthday that was held back. He's a full year + a few months older than some of the other boys. And he's into many different things, that our boys aren't into. He was into star wars in pre-K and would play a game on the playground that freaked out several of the other boys who found it scary. The Kindergarten boys, who are same age as him, wouldn't play with him as he wasn't in their class.

It's not so bad now, as DS's class is a 1-2 class, and there is some mixing on the playground. This one boy is older than several 2nd graders. He knows he's older than them, but he's not doing the same work. I don't think that helps a child's confidence much.

[niccig]

I was 19 in my senior year of high school. We moved from a state with different start of school age, so I was 6 months - 1 year older going into Grade 7 - not too much of a big deal.

I then was an exchange student for a year and had to come back to finish grade 11 and 12. I was now 1 to 2 years older than everyone else. That was a big deal. I found most of my classmates to be very immature. I was driving, able to drink (drinking age is 18 there), and my interests did not line up with my classmates. I found a group of friends to hang out with, but other than those 8 people, the rest of my graduate class seemed so young to me - because they were.

[cuca_]

I am a bit late to this thread, but I also have a December son. When we lived in NY, the cutoff date was Dec. 31 and we had pretty much decided to hold back DS, because his birthday was too close to the cutoff, and if we ever moved, he would have been substantially younger than the other kids in his class (considering that very few places have such a late cutoff). We in fact ended up moving, and are now in a district that has a August 1 cutoff. At this point we are not considering holding DS back, but I would not rule it out completely. If I ever felt it was the best decision for my child, I would do it.

I have to say I am surprised by a lot of the posters that say that older kids get made fun of or feel different. As you know, I went to a small all girls school in the same area you did. My birthday is late november, so I was significantly younger than a lot of my classmates, and I cannot remember that ever being an issue. One of my best friends was almost 10 months older than me. I also remember several girls who were almost a full year younger than me because they had december birthdays and had been "held back." To my recollection no one ever made fun of them -- it was not even an issue. Of course, things may be different among boys.

I have a family member who was toying with the idea of holding back an early fall birthday, but felt pressured by the negative reaction of many around her not to do it. Last I heard, she is regretting her decision. I think Daisymom said it best:


I just hope that you all can take all this advice with a grain of salt and know that everyone has an opinion but you will do the right thing for your kiddos!

Good luck with your decision!

[justlearning]

I have to say I am surprised by a lot of the posters that say that older kids get made fun of or feel different. As you know, I went to a small all girls school in the same area you did. My birthday is late november, so I was significantly younger than a lot of my classmates, and I cannot remember that ever being an issue. One of my best friends was almost 10 months older than me. I also remember several girls who were almost a full year younger than me because they had december birthdays and had been "held back." To my recollection no one ever made fun of them -- it was not even an issue. Of course, things may be different among boys.

I think the reason for the responses is that the OP was not asking about holding back a child whose birthday is close to a cutoff date for her state. So if her son attended school where you used to live, there could be kids whose birthdays were mid-Dec. who would start school when they're 4 years old and turn 5 in Dec. of their K year, correct? She was asking about holding her son back so that he would be 6 years old and turn 7 in Dec. of his K year. Thus, he could be a full 2 years older than other kids (e.g., those who may transfer to his school from another state with a Dec. cutoff date).

So I think that's the reason for the strong responses--we're not talking about only being 10 months to a year older than other kids.

[Momit]

We have discussed this already for our 3.5 year old DS. He has a late summer birthday. I would be tempted to hold him for a year with a Sept. 1 cutoff district but I'm not sure I would hold him with a Dec. 1 cutoff because of the potential for such a large age difference. I am curious to read everyone's responses.

[cuca_]

I think the reason for the responses is that the OP was not asking about holding back a child whose birthday is close to a cutoff date for her state. So if her son attended school where you used to live, there could be kids whose birthdays were mid-Dec. who would start school when they're 4 years old and turn 5 in Dec. of their K year, correct? She was asking about holding her son back so that he would be 6 years old and turn 7 in Dec. of his K year. Thus, he could be a full 2 years older than other kids (e.g., those who may transfer to his school from another state with a Dec. cutoff date).

So I think that's the reason for the strong responses--we're not talking about only being 10 months to a year older than other kids.

I understand what OP was talking about. I was just sharing my situation with my own DS and also the fact that I am just surprised that so many people feel that an older kidwould be viewed in a negative light by his peers. I do not remember caring about age when I was in school, or seeing others make fun of the kids who were held back.

[Kindra178]

I understand what OP was talking about. I was just sharing my situation with my own DS and also the fact that I am just surprised that so many people feel that an older kidwould be viewed in a negative light by his peers. I do not remember caring about age when I was in school, or seeing others make fun of the kids who were held back.

I was made fun of by a mean first grader during my second year of k. My little boyfriend of my first year of kinder always defended me by saying, "she wasn't held back, she was too young."

[rin]

I understand what OP was talking about. I was just sharing my situation with my own DS and also the fact that I am just surprised that so many people feel that an older kidwould be viewed in a negative light by his peers. I do not remember caring about age when I was in school, or seeing others make fun of the kids who were held back.

You know, I don't remember ever being aware of age, per se, in elementary school, but there was a girl in my 4th grade class who was picked on by a lot of the other kids. She was a lot taller than the rest of the kids in our grade, and the teasing really took off when she started needing a bra in 4th grade (long before any of the rest of the girls did). I don't have any idea if she'd been held back, or was experiencing premature puberty, or what her situation was, but her more advanced physical development really seemed to make things harder for her, socially.

Somewhat related, my DH (who is 6'2") reached his adult height in 8th grade, and has repeatedly talked about how it was very difficult to be the "giant" kid. He hadn't been held back, and had in fact skipped a grade, so he was clearly just an early bloomer height-wise, but I think there's a lot to be said for kids sometimes being unkind to other children who stand out physically. Is that totally uncool? Of course, and it's absolutely the job of the teachers/parents/administrators/etc to try to make sure that doesn't happen, but I suspect it may take place even on more subtle levels even if it's not outright teasing/etc.