Please help: I feel like we are always scolding or disciplining DD1

[citymama]

DD1 is a good kid, usually well behaved and a peace maker at school. She reads a lot and if you catch her at one of those times, you would think she was the easiest kid ever.

At home, she is strong-willed and sassy. She wants to bend every rule, talks back, pushes buttons. Probably nothing out of the ordinary for an almost 6 yr old kid, but the sass in particular is excessive - Me: "DD, it's 9.30 pm, time to stop reading and go to bed." DD first tries to beg and plead, then when I say no, you can read in the morning, it will be something like: "Oh yeah? Well, I'm not going to." So I say something like, if she doesn't go to bed, the book goes in the book jail till tomorrow. Either it will make her burst into tears or be more rude and stick out her tongue at us or say something sassy. This is a small example - sometimes the thing we are trying to get her to do is more serious, but you can be sure we are having an exchange like this at least a dozen times a day. About getting ready for school, brushing teeth, picking up toys and books she strews around, everything. It is exhausting.

And I keep coming back to the fact that this is essentially a good kid who wants to be liked, has peaceful hobbies (imaginative play, books, art, bug collecting/nature), a beautiful imagination and a lovely spirit. It breaks my heart that so much of my interaction with her is scolding her rather than enjoying this kid and making her feel loved. (Of course, we make sure to give lots of hugs and I love yous, but after a meltdown over reading books at 9.30 or 10 pm, she tends to shrug them off.) I worry that we are hurting her self-esteem and spirit by constantly berating her - we, the parents who should be cultivating her self-confidence and making her more secure. (Both of which were defining traits in her first three years.) But OTOH, we need to get her through the motions of the day, to prevent her from bullying her little sister, to get homework done, and to help her be less bratty. She is so resistant to any of it, and would rather escalate into a full blown tantrum than just agree to just doing something simple when asked.

We have read Playful Parenting and I feel like the techniques work some times (and we remember to use it sometimes!). We try not to raise our voices, and we try to model polite behavior, but alas, we are struggling for ways to get her to listen to us without the threat of with holding some privilege (usually, screen time). And I fear this is going to get worse with age. Help me figure out whether this is developmental stage related, and either way, how best for us to work on positive discipline. How do we get her to a point where the routine stuff isn't something we drag her through, but things she will just do? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks!

[maestramommy]

Dora isn't exactly sassy, but I definitely see signs of attitude, pouting when not wanting to do a chore, arguing, etc. It took her so long to get to this point that I sorta laugh it off. I have my hands full with Arwyn, who is driving me to drink, so Dora feels like a cakewalk in comparison.

At times like these I tell myself if they save all their worst behavior for at home, maybe that's a good thing.

[hellokitty]

DS2 is a lot like this as well. At school he is an angel, his teachers are shocked to hear that he can be so sassy at home. At home, watch out. He is CONSTANTLY testing boundaries and can often be very disrespectful. I feel bad too, b/c it seems like we're constantly telling him to fix his attitude. I think part of it is his personality. He is extremely strong willed and wants LOTS of attn. If he doesn't get lots of attn and admiration, then he acts out to get negative attn. He is very bratty, I think that is the best word to describe him. Funny enough, DS3 is JUST like DS2 and giving DS2 a taste of his own medicine (poor DS1, two little brothers who are both mega-brats), and DH and I can't help but chuckle at DS2's frustration sometimes with DS3, who is a mini-me of himself.

[egoldber]

Welcome to elementary age kids. ;) They push boundaries. It's what they do. They are becoming independent people with their own thoughts and preferences.


How do we get her to a point where the routine stuff isn't something we drag her through, but things she will just do?

Just keep reinforcing all the expected behaviors and realize that this is a process that will go on for a long time. Just when you develop a good routine, then something will change. (More homework, different after school activities, etc.) Also, some kids are just naturally more organized than others. Some kids really benefit from having checklists posted in various places to help them know what is coming up next and to mentally prepare for it.

I notice you said her bedtime is 9:30. That seems pretty late to me for a kid that young. Being overtired will exacerbate a lot of these behaviors.

[anamika]

You just described my DD when she was that age.
I definitely think it has a lot to do with her age. I do not have great coping strategies or ideas for you. I do remember asking on here for advice and help.
But I can tell you that it becomes much better after a few months or so. I was just telling DH that 6.5 to 7 seems like the babymoon period again. She is completely delightful, responsible and super helpful - for now.
From my experience, these things go in cycles. So I fully anticipate that in another 6 months I will be asking the moms on here for help with DD again! But I am enjoying it for now!
Good luck.

[newg]

My DD1 is only four, so I'm no expert.....but I did teach K-1 for a few years before DD was born. At school we always had reward systems set up for good behavior and a "stop light" for each child to monitor bad behavior....green = good, yellow=warning (broke a rule), red= your in trouble!!
Could you do something like that at home, so she has a visual of a reward or goal she is working towards with good behavior (extra time to read, a new toy, special trip to the zoo....) and if she lands on red, something special is taken away.
I'd set a timer for the reading too. Maybe a digital timer, so she see the time decrease. When it goes off and she puts the book away without a fight, she earns coins/points/stars towards the reward.

You may be doing this, or tried it already! Like I said my DD isn't there yet, but we did stuff like this at school!
Good luck. And I totally get what you're saying, about not wanting your whole day to be about managing meltdowns and arguing for agreement on a task.

eta: I'm remembering now, that I used play money at school. When they got "caught" doing something good, I would give them money to use in the class store at the end of the month. When someone broke a minor rule, I took money away.

[gatorsmom]

If she is normally an easy kid then I'd say this is a phase like any other. We went through it with Gator and are now starting it with Cha cha. It will pass. Interestingly, when Gator was going through it, I was at my wits end trying to figure out what was going on. Then I started talking to some other mothers of 1st graders and they had all said the same thing, "is your kid going through what mine is going through now?" We were all at our wits end! But he got through it and becamse my happy, peace-loving Gator not too long after.

I don't know how the other parents handled it, but i made sure he understood that I would follow through on what I said. If it's 9:30pm and I say lights out, he can question me as to why, but he has to turn out his light or there will be consequences. And being sassy brought on consequences too. There is no reason to be rude to me or anyone else and he was old enough to know he was being rude to me.

GL! It really will pass and you will survive it (until the next phase). :)

[crl]

I agree with Beth that an earlier bedtime might be worth a try.

I also do my best to cut those interactions off before ds has a chance to be rude and before I have a chance to get angry. (me: clean up time, ds: but whhhyyy, me: because it is 8:30, ds: but, but, me: enough, get started AND I walk away so he has a harder time continuing to argue).

Catherine

[brittone2]

I agree with Beth that an earlier bedtime might be worth a try.

I also do my best to cut those interactions off before ds has a chance to be rude and before I have a chance to get angry. (me: clean up time, ds: but whhhyyy, me: because it is 8:30, ds: but, but, me: enough, get started AND I walk away so he has a harder time continuing to argue).

Catherine
Yep, my DD is the queen of escalating as we escalate. If I "threaten" to take something away she goes into a mode of "well, if you do that, I'm going to (XYZ)." I've found it is best to stick the boundary and enforce it, and then stop engaging her.

She does handle things better if I use playful parenting because she responds best when things are not set up in a fashion that causes things to escalate. I didn't have too much trouble with my DS1 with that, but DD will definitely keep upping the ante. And honestly, I don't think she even means it, I think it is just how she expresses her frustration when she feels backed into a corner by a threat. So I try for playful, and if that doesn't work I enforce the boundary and then stop engaging in a back and forth discussion.

It has been a while since I've read it but what about Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles by Kurcinka?

[mytwosons]

My kids know they will just have to keep trying until they can ask/say what they want to without the sass.

I've also noticed that when DS1 starts pushing the boundaries, he is really craving some firm limits. I don't know if he is feeling insecure or what, but he'll push and I will really crack down. After the initial complaining, his mood turns right around. Ex: he was refusing to do something and I started taking away tv as a punishment. He kept going until I took tv away for the entire 2 week break. We had a wonderful break, though. :shrug:

Also, I would move the bedtime earlier. My kids only read after they are completely ready for bed, and they must read in their beds. We've had the occassional episode of really late reading, but since they start at 8, it's really not too late.

[sste]

I think I understand - - I always thought my DS would enjoy playing with your DD if it weren't for the age gap - - they sound very similar. My DS looked me dead in the eye last night and said in a freakishly adult tone of voice, "I am pissed at you, Mama." He is four!

Anyhow, there are my major suggestions:

1. Talk less. Way less. Any disciplining moment she have as few words from you as possible. As in you have a choice between x & y. (blah, blah, argue from kiddo) I am counting to three and if you don't choose I am going to choose for you. And then do it. Same with time out or losing a privilege. If screen time is a motivator then try to put as many of the things you argue about with DD as pre-reqs for the screen time - - e.g., you can watch the cartoon once you are in your pjs and have brushed your teeth and put away the toys. Let me know when you are done.

2. My DS is a perfectionist and I bet your DD may be too. I finally realized that part of the reason he argues with me is that he hates to have done something "wrong" no matter how minor. I mean, it really bothers him! So, alot of times I try to make things questions, "What should you be doing right now? Or can you think of a better way to say that?" If I am not in a "disciplining moment" - - meaning is is not a big deal item like bedtime or something needs to get done, I will say things like, "You are a great kid, I am so lucky to have you. Can you try a little harder to (be gentler with your sister, pick up your toys, give me my space when I ask)? Sometimes I respond to his cranky/whinyness with lots of hugs and kisses and silliness.

3. My DS has always responded very well to my reminding him, "We want our house to be a place where people are nice to each other. We don't want a house with mean words and yelling and rough hands." He is very much in agreement with that and he usually gets it, either in the moment or a little bit later.

Good luck!

[citymama]

These are great - I did want to mention that bedtime for her is 9 pm - which is why I was so annoyed when I found her reading at 9.30 long after lights out! She had taken a nap in the car and was finding it hard to fall asleep...

And she has always been a more high maintenance, demanding kid. Her DD2, on the other hand, seems to be an early practitioner of Zen! (She is showing her "two's" more and more, too, armed with some sassy phrases from her sister!)