Kennedy vs Hospital: Taking a newborn outside

[pantrygirl]

DH and I have conflicting opinions about this and I don't want to go into a heated debate but I wanted to survey fellow moms and dads about this.

While in the hospital, did you ever think to yourself, my newborn needs to get some fresh air?

Taking my newborns outside for some 'fresh air' was not even a thought in my head those first few days postpartum in the hospital.

Just curious if anyone thought their newborn needed some 'fresh air'.

Thanks.:)

[BabyBearsMom]

No, that never crossed my mind. Why would a newborn need fresh air??

[trcy]

DD was born in December and it was cold...so no, we did not think she needed to go out for air.

[swissair81]

Um, no? I don't think my newborns need fresh air. They need to be warm. I don't know where you are, but it is not warm here.
My last newborn was born in August. I did take her out more often than my kids who were born in the fall/winter (all of the rest of them), but I didn't feel the need to during my hospital stay. I was much more concerned about the nonexistent postpartum rest that I would not have once I left the hospital.

[twowhat?]

That didn't even cross my mind. Once the babies were born, we were in survival mode and hospital room air was totally sufficient:) I would not have wanted to go outside even if they offered to wheel me outside.

[daisymommy]

No way in heck.
We were not allowed to leave any exit door anyway! Both baby and I had "low-Jack's" on, and it would have set off the alarm system.
And even if were were allowed, my hoo-haa hurt so bad, I wasn't going any further than the bathroom. Not even on my radar to try to shuffle outside. Good grief, let the poor woman recover while she can!
Fwiw, my last birth was at home, so I could have gotten some fresh air if I had felt the need. I still didn't venture out for a week :)

[brittone2]

I think there is likely more to the story than we know. If he wanted to leave, he should have filled out AMA papers.

I dislike many hospital policies. I left after 4 hours at our FSBC (which is a-ok according to their policies) and was packing up stuff after about 3 hours. I had a HB for my 3rd child.

However, if the baby is in the hospital, he can't just waltz out without filling out AMA. It is an issue of liability for the hospital.

I don't see anything inherently wrong with "fresh air" for a newborn baby (eta: obviously assuming appropriately dressed, no issues with keeping temp stable, etc), although I have no idea how "fresh" the air is outside of this hospital or exactly where he was planning on going. I don't remember if the original description mentioned whether the baby was appropriately dressed for the weather.

That said, not everyone knows about AMA unless they've BTDT or have a medical background. I think it is possible someone might not understand that if not explained in advance. eta: I assume he *was* made aware that he would set off alarms if he took the baby outside, even if he doesn't understand the concept of signing out AMA.

[lmh2402]

during my time in the hospital, no...absolutely never even crossed my mind. in fact, i was scared to leave the hospital period...i wanted to stay until DS was sleeping through the night :ROTFLMAO:

but once we were home, than yes...fresh air was a must...not for him, but for my sanity

[SnuggleBuggles]

I was out of the hospital as fast as possible with ds1 and I chose to avoid the hospital with ds2. I doubt I would have considered taking baby out if I had been in the hospital though just because of the logistics. I always feel captive there and that I dont have full ability to make decisions.

[TwinFoxes]

Well, no, but the whole born at 29 weeks thing had something to do with it. Also, they were born basically in downtown Beverly Hills, not a lot of "fresh" air, plenty of car fumes though. :) ButI don't see anything really wrong with it. The baby would be going outside in a day anyway to go home, so I'm not sure why it would be bad. I hadn't heard of this case at all, I had to google to see what you were talking about. It seems a little bossy of the nurses, unless there's a medical reason I don't know about (which there very well could be, I don't have any experience with full term babies).

ETA: The one article I read said some nurses told him it was OK, the other ones who he allegedly assaulted tried to stop him, so I don't know about the whole AMA thing. I do agree there's probably more to the story...

[swissair81]

Also, now that I'm thinking about it, unless you leave AMA a postpartum mother isn't allowed to leave the mother-baby area without being accompanied.

You are not usually allowed to take a newborn off the unit unless the pediatrician allows you to. It is much more complicated to get an AMA discharge for a minor. They could technically get a court order and prevent you from leaving if they wanted to. They can also prevent you from refusing treatments and other lovely things. You cannot refuse things on behalf of a minor if they do not want you to.

[carolinamama]

All I did with my newborns was snuggle and nurse. I guess they slept and visitors held them too. But no, never even crossed my mind to take them outside at the hospital.

[pantrygirl]

That didn't even cross my mind. Once the babies were born, we were in survival mode and hospital room air was totally sufficient:) I would not have wanted to go outside even if they offered to wheel me outside.
:yeahthat:
Exactly! That's how I felt with #1 and #2.

Besides it being July and October, I was in survival mode. There was no way they were getting me outside with my baby during my 'mamaction' (only times I didn't have to worry about cooking or cleaning. Lol)

Ok so I'm not crazy. I don't think it makes sense whatsoever to take a newborn outdoors let alone outdoors in January in NY!

I agree fresh air isn't bad as long as properly dressed but it wasn't even a thought in my head. When I was home we were out and about though. I believe being outdoors at least once a day is good for both Mama and baby.
I agree we don't know the whole story but I really was caught off guard about his reasoning.
For the record I agree, AMA should have been signed.

Thanks everyone.

[EllasMum]

OK so I voted 'yes' before reading the actual post. :loveeyes: While I was actually in the hospital, no, it didn't occur me to take DD outside. Once I was released, though, I was outside everyday. I can't stand being cooped up inside and absolutely had to get out.

I have no idea what the 'Kennedy vs Hospital' issue is, so will just crawl back under my rock now. :ROTFLMAO:

[pb&j]

Mine are both winter babies, but, yes, I was trying to jimmy open the window my whole hospital stay. It was hot and stuffy in the rooms. It wasn't so much they needed fresh air, as I needed it! I would not have gone outside, only because I refuse to be seen in public in PJ's/lounge clothes/hospital gown.

My stay after DD was born was only 24 hours, but had it been much longer than that, I definitely would have explored being able to get outside with the baby, if only for a few minutes. The hospital where we delivered is in a very pleasant area. I was taking long walks outdoors with the baby within 2 days postpartum. Fresh air and vitamin D, yeah!!

[lilycat88]

Mine are both winter babies, but, yes, I was trying to jimmy open the window my whole hospital stay. It was hot and stuffy in the rooms. It wasn't so much they needed fresh air, as I needed it!

:yeahthat:

Both of mine were June babies. It was warm but not hot. The hospital has several lovely rose gardens and I would have loved to go out and taken either kid for a brief walk/ride. I had c-sections so I was in the hospital several days and not being able to get out was one of the things that kickstarted my PPD. But, we both had "burglar alarms" (DDs word for them) on and we couldn't leave the unit. I suppose I could have it I pressed it but I didn't want to leave the babies. :shrug:

[maestramommy]

uh.....no! When we visited the hospitals, they explained very clearly about the security tag that was going to be put on the baby, and how the alarm would go off if we went past the entrance doors to the maternity ward. They also laughingly said it went off every so often because an absent-minded dad forgot something about the tag system when visiting.

[ilfaith]

I had to look up the story to which the post pertained...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/27/us-kennedy-hospital-idUSTRE81Q1MT20120227

Seems a little odd to want to bring a newborn outside in New York in January (even if it has been an unusually mild winter in the northeast). Of course those Kennedys are known for being outdoorsy.

Of course if Douglas Kennedy assaulted either of the nurses, that is another issue entirely.

[nfowife]

There has got to be more to this story. It is bizarre. It does not make sense whatsoever to me that a dad of a newborn would want to take the baby "out for fresh air" when it was a day old. I'm not a germaphobe or anything of the sort, and left the hospital with both DS and DD2 right at 24 hours (wish there was a birth center nearby so I could have left even earlier!). But if DH had said to me "I'm going to take DD2 out for a short stroll, be back in a bit" I would have said NO WAY. I just think the whole scenario is beyond weird. Why did he want to take the baby? The baby is a patient of the hospital and you can't just walk out of there without being discharged (or AMA). I had to stay an extra 4 hours with DD2 waiting for the ped to come discharge her..... this is just plain strange.

[SnuggleBuggles]

You don't have to go AMA to leave early. I talked with my ped and CNM before the birth and got it cleared to leave ASAP if all was well

[OKKiddo]

I was one of the few who voted yes. Maybe I'm crazy but I was tired and going stir crazy in the hospital and wanted to walk. We weren't allowed to take our children out of their rooms unless they were in their bassinets and only then we were only allowed to walk around in a u shaped hall.

I actually wanted to get them outside because they were a bit jaundiced and my room didn't get any sunshine (and that's not easy for a room in the Mojave Desert!). I don't know what is going on with the Kennedy fellow...

ETA: I had my third baby right here in Kansas in a homebirth and I LOVED taking her outside the next morning for a little walk and welcoming introduction to our neighbors. Then again, I LOVED everything about having a homebirth, lol!

[AnnieW625]

No I didn't, but I did have a window view for both girls. With DD1 it rained much of the two days I was in the hospital. With DD1 it was very windy.


I think there is likely more to the story than we know. If he wanted to leave, he should have filled out AMA papers.

I dislike many hospital policies. I left after 4 hours at our FSBC (which is a-ok according to their policies) and was packing up stuff after about 3 hours. I had a HB for my 3rd child.

However, if the baby is in the hospital, he can't just waltz out without filling out AMA. It is an issue of liability for the hospital.

I don't see anything inherently wrong with "fresh air" for a newborn baby (eta: obviously assuming appropriately dressed, no issues with keeping temp stable, etc), although I have no idea how "fresh" the air is outside of this hospital or exactly where he was planning on going. I don't remember if the original description mentioned whether the baby was appropriately dressed for the weather.

That said, not everyone knows about AMA unless they've BTDT or have a medical background. I think it is possible someone might not understand that if not explained in advance. eta: I assume he *was* made aware that he would set off alarms if he took the baby outside, even if he doesn't understand the concept of signing out AMA.

:yeahthat: I did not have a baby at a home birth, or at a birthing center and had mine at the hospital, but yeah while I do understand the importance to have the baby and yourself connected with lojack and stuff I still think that as parents if we wanted to take our baby outside of the hospital room and you all have matching lojack bracelets the you should have the right to. With DD2 I got to walk with her and DH to a breastfeeding clinic before I left the hospital. With DD1 I got to leave the baby with the nurse while I went and had xrays taken of my legs (due to a fear of blood clots due to leg cramps I had been having), and to go to the nursing boutique. I never asked if I could take DD1 with me or if DH could just stay in the room with her, but it would have been a nice option had I thought about it.

eta: I stayed a full 2 nights after DD1 was born, but was told I could go home a day early if I wanted. I should have because that night it was one of the worst nights of sleep DD1 and myself have ever had due to roommate issues. With DD2 I only stayed one night after she was born because I wanted to get home and see DD1 who was not allowed to visit due to the hospitals absurd policy in regards to not allowing children under the age of 13 yrs. old to visit because it was "flu season" it was late April not January for goodness sake. I did not have to sign anything from the AMA to get out of the hospital with DD2 or to think about getting out of the hospital early when rec. by the pediatrician and my OBGYN with DD1.

[edurnemk]

You mean like taking him out while we're still in the hospital? Nope. DS was born in January in Chicago, so going outside was the furthest thing for my mind. Plus I was too sore to think about walking anywhere.

[elliput]

I buggered out of the hospital/birth center as soon as possible after my both my DC were born, so both got "fresh air" within 36 hours of birth. The idea of taking the baby for a walk outside while I was there never occurred to me. Besides, DD was born in early January in Michigan. It was cold and there was snow everywhere. A walk outside was not happening.

[swissair81]

You don't have to go AMA to leave early. I talked with my ped and CNM before the birth and got it cleared to leave ASAP if all was well

Right- you need to clear it with someone. If they don't allow it, you won't be allowed to leave.

Security measure are in place for
a reason. You can't leave just because. People steal babies. That's why we tag them. Being a Kennedy doesn't make him bigger than the rules.

[KLD313]

The only thing on my mind was getting home. I hate the hospital and wanted out, I barely even left my room to walk around. On the third day after my c-section I begged to be released and told them if they wouldn't let me then get the paperwork and I would sign out AMA.

[hellokitty]

I haven't read the other replies yet, but you can't just walk outside with your newborn, they have security bracelets on the babies' ankles to avoid ppl taking the babies out of the unit. The nurses would freak out if you asked them to take the babies out for, "fresh air." And I say that in quotes, b/c what you get is NOT fresh air, but cigarette smoke air from all the smokers who linger at the exits of the hospital. The only time they're going to let you go outside with your baby is when you're being discharged and leaving the hospital.

[MontrealMum]

I'm with Daisymommy on being in too much pain to even consider going outside whether it was permitted or not. I thought I was doing well to hobble over to the bathroom. (I had a broken tailbone). I didn't even attend the bathing and swaddling instructional session that was supposedly mandatory. I made DH go. Mind you, once I was home I took DS out in the carrier immediately, but he was born in Aug., not Jan.

[liamsmom]

Kicking nurses isn't cool, but I have to think there's more to the story. I really think he was majorly sleep deprived and wasn't thinking clearly. It's been really warm this winter and I've been going for long walks with my DS. It might have sounded like a good idea to him and became argumentative when told no. Although if you look at the video, the baby isn't bundled up very much and it looks like he's not wearing a coat either. :shrug:

[TwinFoxes]

Kicking nurses isn't cool, but I have to think there's more to the story. I really think he was majorly sleep deprived and wasn't thinking clearly. It's been really warm this winter and I've been going for long walks with my DS. It might have sounded like a good idea to him and became argumentative when told no. Although if you look at the video, the baby isn't bundled up very much and it looks like he's not wearing a coat either. :shrug:

Video? Is there a link?

BTW, I had never heard of this story before. I'm assuming it's big news in NY and maybe elsewhere?

[swissair81]

Video? Is there a link?

BTW, I had never heard of this story before. I'm assuming it's big news in NY and maybe elsewhere?

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Douglas-Kennedy-Baby-Northern-Westchester-Hospital-Nurses-Video-RFK-140594003.html

[swissair81]

Kicking nurses isn't cool, but I have to think there's more to the story. I really think he was majorly sleep deprived and wasn't thinking clearly. It's been really warm this winter and I've been going for long walks with my DS. It might have sounded like a good idea to him and became argumentative when told no. Although if you look at the video, the baby isn't bundled up very much and it looks like he's not wearing a coat either. :shrug:

What isn't cool is that an ER doctor was getting involved in a professional capacity for a personal friend. According to the article, he encouraged Kennedy to say he was with him. You can't make up rules for other departments. Also I know people tend to think that maternity unit policies are draconian, but if that baby disappeared while he was still a hospital patient, they would be liable. If I was that nurse, I would have activated the same code they did. I like my nursing license and my ability to be employed.

[liamsmom]

http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/douglas-kennedy-s-fight-with-nurses-caught-on-tape-28437800.html

Unfortunately, most of it ends up happening off camera, so we really can't know for sure--from this video, at least. But it does look violent.

I don't think it's really fair to bash him as an entitled Kennedy. His father died over 40 years ago--he probably doesn't even remember him. Plus I doubt he's very rich--he would have only inherited 1/10 (or 1/11, I forget exactly how many kids RFK had) of his dad's share of the family fortune.

[KrisM]

I voted no, but didn't know it was a story. I assumed the OP was talking about herself or a friend :).

[army_mom]

while actually IN the hospital, no it did not cross my mind. I was only in the hospital for a bit more than 24 hours though. About a day later though we were enjoying a warm Texas December day of 75 and we took DD for a walk around the neighborhood. :D

[TwinFoxes]

Phooey those videos aren't playing on my phone. I did read the baby was three days old.

For those who work in hospitals, if you have proper ID and your bracelets match etc, you are under no circumstances allowed to take your baby for a walk? Just curious. Although I can't imagine it comes up that often!

[brittone2]

Phooey those videos aren't playing on my phone. I did read the baby was three days old.

For those who work in hospitals, if you have proper ID and your bracelets match etc, you are under no circumstances allowed to take your baby for a walk? Just curious. Although I can't imagine it comes up that often!
It is a liability issue. You are checked in and under their care. If you leave, you have essentially "checked out" and would need to be readmitted.

I think the whole thing was bizarre and I think there is more to the story.

The only way they would "allow" someone to go outside (eta: should have specified *with a baby*) would be for them to check out AMA. I'm sure he was aware of the bracelet system; however, I'm not sure all parents are aware that "going for a walk" is an AMA issue and you can't stay admitted after leaving like that. I don't know that all parents know what AMA is. I know what it is from having worked in a hospital, but it was never mentioned when I was in a hospital post partum. I guess I can see how someone might not get that you can't leave, go outside, return, and still be on the same admission. I'm not saying he was smart or doing the "right" thing or whatever, but just speaking in a general sense, I'm not sure everyone would know that under that situation you would request AMA papers and basically be *leaving* the hospital.

[vludmilla]

Plus I doubt he's very rich--he would have only inherited 1/10 (or 1/11, I forget exactly how many kids RFK had) of his dad's share of the family fortune.

He lives in a very fancy home in Chappaqua (super expensive) and works for Fox News. I think he is wealthy. Of course, I don't think that matters in the least in terms of his guilt or innocence.

[Pear]

People go for walks all the time while admitted to the hospital. Just look across the street from any smoke-free hospital campus and you will see patients with coats over their gowns having a cigarette. Some of them even drag an iv pole out with them.

[swissair81]

We used to let our maternity patients go out to smoke all the time- until the day something absolutely devastatingly tragic happened. The policy was changed to no one can go down without a staff person with them. Now no smoking is allowed on any hospital campus in the state, so that is moot anyway. Babies were never allowed to leave until they were discharged- although in our hospital all moms needed a drug test to be allowed to take their
baby in any case.

[edurnemk]

People go for walks all the time while admitted to the hospital. Just look across the street from any smoke-free hospital campus and you will see patients with coats over their gowns having a cigarette. Some of them even drag an iv pole out with them.

But they're adults. The hospital is responsible for newborns until discharged, and we've all heard stories of stolen babies. And with the tags and bracelets with alarms that they put on them, I don't know how you'd expect to be able to walk outside with the baby without setting off the alarm.

[brittone2]

People go for walks all the time while admitted to the hospital. Just look across the street from any smoke-free hospital campus and you will see patients with coats over their gowns having a cigarette. Some of them even drag an iv pole out with them.
Well, I should have specified in the case of a baby, they aren't going to let you out (even if you intend to return right away) without signing out AMA.

[Gena]

For those who work in hospitals, if you have proper ID and your bracelets match etc, you are under no circumstances allowed to take your baby for a walk? Just curious. Although I can't imagine it comes up that often!

I don't work at a hospital, but the one we delivered at used more than one type of bracelet. One was the set that the baby, DH, and I all wore that had matching barcodes. The other was the anti-theft device that would set off all the alarms and put the hospital in lockdown if the baby was removed from the maternity floor. They were two different systems .