Can I please vent and ask for advice (re: school)?

[jenfromnj]

I don't post here often, since we're still getting our feet wet as DS approaches his third birthday, but I am hoping to get some feedback from all of you who've BTDT.

We had DS tested over the past few months to qualify for our town's preschool program, and were hoping that he'd be able to transition smoothly from EI to there. We are having such a bad time with the school personnel with whom we've dealt, I no longer have real confidence in the program. They've blatantly disregarded their statutory obligations in a number of ways so far (as far as notice, things like that), and our main point of contact is so incredibly arrogant and condescending, and does not listen. It's maddening and so frustrating, and starting to make me angry.

Today for instance, I called and said this is Jen MyLastname, X Hislastname's mom (I didn't change my name so we have different last names), I wanted to discuss his placement if you have a few minutes." and she actually said "say what you have to say, and say it NOW." And the conversation got worse from there, both in attitude and in content. I know that I kept my lawyer hat on and didn't let myself show how angry/upset I was, but my cheeks are still blazing, 2 hours later. I have never wasted their time--in fact, if anything, I've probably been too permissive of their hijinks, since I'd hope to get through it all and end up with my son happily in preschool.

This woman spent 1.5 hours with him administering a variety of tests--the fact that she is completely unwilling to take any of my, his EI therapists, or even his doctors' input, is frankly disturbing, and seems contrary to the way things are supposed to work, doesn't it? (She even said, when I tried to explain what these people thought about certain issues, "well, that's all well and good, but we don't HAVE to listen to anything they say--we have our own evaluation process and THAT is all we have to worry about." sigh.

Has anyone had a very bad time dealing with their school district? Did you end up getting an advocate or an attorney? Did it help? Any advice on dealing with the school in a firm but effective way? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

[inmypjs]

This woman spent 1.5 hours with him administering a variety of tests--the fact that she is completely unwilling to take any of my, his EI therapists, or even his doctors' input, is frankly disturbing, and seems contrary to the way things are supposed to work, doesn't it? (She even said, when I tried to explain what these people thought about certain issues, "well, that's all well and good, but we don't HAVE to listen to anything they say--we have our own evaluation process and THAT is all we have to worry about." sigh.

This is very disturbing to me! As a professional who should have your child's best interests at heart, why wouldn't she want all of the information she could get about him? Other information sources could confirm what they find from their assessment or even show things from a different perspective. Her unwillingness to consider these sources is very concerning. It sounds like she cares more about being in charge and in control than about doing what is best for your child.

Personally I have not had this level of resistance from our public school district. I would also be very mad! Gena posted some helpful guidelines on how to advocate for your child without getting to emotional in response to a post I made recently - titled "sigh" - I found them helpful. My school district was very happy to have another evaluation of my son and thanked me for sharing the info.

Was the person you talked to the director? If not I would talk with whoever is in charge and find out if everyone shares the views this woman expressed to you. Is there another school option for him?

[vludmilla]

Is there another evaluating professional at the school? Is this a psychologist? SLP? special educator? I think I would want to speak to someone else with authority at the school at this point.

[jenfromnj]

This is very disturbing to me! As a professional who should have your child's best interests at heart, why wouldn't she want all of the information she could get about him? Other information sources could confirm what they find from their assessment or even show things from a different perspective. Her unwillingness to consider these sources is very concerning. It sounds like she cares more about being in charge and in control than about doing what is best for your child.

Personally I have not had this level of resistance from our public school district. I would also be very mad! Gena posted some helpful guidelines on how to advocate for your child without getting to emotional in response to a post I made recently - titled "sigh" - I found them helpful. My school district was very happy to have another evaluation of my son and thanked me for sharing the info.

Was the person you talked to the director? If not I would talk with whoever is in charge and find out if everyone shares the views this woman expressed to you. Is there another school option for him?

Thank you for your post, and for pointing me toward Gena's guidance--it was very helpful. Yes, this particular person has been around for a long, long time and clearly thinks she's untouchable. Thankfully, she is retiring at the end of the school year, per some reliable information we've received. We are looking into other options, and the school has been somewhat more cooperative since we've made it very clear that we won't be backing down.


Is there another evaluating professional at the school? Is this a psychologist? SLP? special educator? I think I would want to speak to someone else with authority at the school at this point.

Thanks for your reply, vludmilla. This is a former classroom teacher who is now the "educational consultant" for our half of the district (unfortunately, our district is not a large one, so there isn't anyone else in her position we can switch to, or I definitely would be requesting that). We have a meeting scheduled this coming week with several other involved parties, including the SLP and the school psych, so I'm hoping we can make some progress. Also looking into consulting with an advocate, there are thankfully some excellent ones in this area.

[Uno-Mom]

That's so sad.
There's a real chance that you'll find a much different attitude from the SLP and psych. Not absolute certainty, but a good chance. If she's that witchy, I'll bet you anything that she has a reputation for burn-out and the therapeutic team is a bit embarrassed by her.

[azazela]

This is a former classroom teacher who is now the "educational consultant" for our half of the district (unfortunately, our district is not a large one, so there isn't anyone else in her position we can switch to, or I definitely would be requesting that). We have a meeting scheduled this coming week with several other involved parties, including the SLP and the school psych, so I'm hoping we can make some progress. Also looking into consulting with an advocate, there are thankfully some excellent ones in this area.

I am a CST member in NJ so I can help with any process/legal issues with the only kink being that I do not work at the preschool level and preschool code/deadlines/evaluations are a little different than k-12. It sounds like the LDTC (also sometimes called educational consultant) is case-managing your son's case right now. She sounds like a peach. I am sorry you're having to deal with that. What kind of meeting to do you have coming up? Has all the testing been completed or just whatever this lady has done? Either the school psychologist or the social worker should be doing an full interview with you and getting history, prior interventions and so on from you. I can't speak to how the CST and EI interact, I am just not involved enough in that process to know. I am pretty sure that the CST does have to do their own evals and can't just make your child eligible based on the EI evals, but they should certainly consider EI eval info as part of the bigger picture/history. That is certainly best practice in the field, even though they do need to do their own evaluations as well. I think that the best way to approach them (and please take that with a grain of salt since I'm on the school side of things generally) is to know your rights very well and be firm about stating what your son needs, but try to remain calm, polite and project the willingness to work together. Also, sometimes it's better to put your questions and/or concerns in writing. You are more likely to get your point accross, you'll have it documented AND they have to reply to those in a timely/regulated manner. See how your meeting goes with the rest of the team, I'm hooing you got the one bad apply. If you still feel like you're getting nowhere, contact the director of special services or equivalent. Feel free to PM me with any questions

[MamaKath]

I think that the best way to approach them (and please take that with a grain of salt since I'm on the school side of things generally) is to know your rights very well and be firm about stating what your son needs, but try to remain calm, polite and project the willingness to work together. Also, sometimes it's better to put your questions and/or concerns in writing. You are more likely to get your point accross, you'll have it documented AND they have to reply to those in a timely/regulated manner. See how your meeting goes with the rest of the team, I'm hooing you got the one bad apply. If you still feel like you're getting nowhere, contact the director of special services or equivalent. Feel free to PM me with any questions
:yeahthat:
I am no longer in NJ (I am from North NJ) so haven't dealt with the ps there for my kid, but find this is good advice no matter which area you are. My mom is a teacher in NJ and is often called in as part of a team for evals/ parent concerns. I think sometimes having a team provides a few more voices towards a realistic eval. I am hoping that when the rst of the team gets involved you will see a positive outcome!

[jenfromnj]

Thanks so much for all of your responses. We have a meeting scheduled on Friday with all of the team members, so I am hoping it will be productive. I have a detailed written list of my concerns, but am going to see how the meeting goes to decide whether to distribute it (either in whole or in part).

Anna, thanks, and I may take you up on your offer!

Apparently part of the issue of why I'm encountering so much difficulty is that our district is moving from half-day K to full day K next year, and that has caused (a) major chaos for most of the staff, and (b) the preschool program to go from 4 classes (2 AM, 2 PM) to 2 (1 of each), so they are already at absolute max capacity with the existing kids.

They don't seem to know what to do with him, and don't seem inclined (yet, at least) to really explore the options. I think it's partly because while DS qualified for expressive language, his receptive language and some other areas tested quite a bit above age level, so they aren't sure how to balance that (though I imagine it can't be THAT uncommon). I am trying to do legwork to find some suggestions, but am hoping that Friday's meeting will help to find a workable solution. We don't love the idea of him being with mostly older kids (that had been proposed), so hopefully we can find a happy medium.

I never thought I'd already have this much angst over school before my child even turned 3!

[crl]

Best of luck in your meeting tomorrow!

(And I don't think it is at all unusual for a child to have strengths and weaknesses. My ds, when first tested, was above age in receptive language (despite having been raised in an orphanage and with a different language for the first year of his life) but significantly behind in expressive language. His fine motor skills were scattered, some above age, some at age and some very far below age. His gross motor skills were so obviously above age they did not even evaluate him in that area. In fact, I have been told that asynchronous development is a red flag and a sign that therapy should be considered for the weaknesses.)

Catherine

[crl]

I hope your meeting went well.

Catherine

[jenfromnj]

I hope your meeting went well.

Catherine

Thank you, Catherine! It did go pretty well. They were much more receptive to our concerns/issues when in a more formalized setting, thankfully. We are still trying to decide how to proceed from here, but at the very least, things aren't as ugly as they were before. We also made it clear that we're aware that the "sorry, no space" excuse is not going to fly, so we'll see where that takes us.


Best of luck in your meeting tomorrow!

(And I don't think it is at all unusual for a child to have strengths and weaknesses. My ds, when first tested, was above age in receptive language (despite having been raised in an orphanage and with a different language for the first year of his life) but significantly behind in expressive language. His fine motor skills were scattered, some above age, some at age and some very far below age. His gross motor skills were so obviously above age they did not even evaluate him in that area. In fact, I have been told that asynchronous development is a red flag and a sign that therapy should be considered for the weaknesses.)

Catherine

Thanks for this, as well. So you were told that asynchronous development is a red flag for a larger issue at play? It's such a tough thing, I feel like most kids I know are ahead in some things and behind in others, but at the same time, DS's extremes are probably more...extreme, IYKWIM. It's so hard to know what will even out as he gets older, just from maturity, being around other kids more, etc., and what's a real "issue".

[Gena]

I missed this thread before. I haven't been on the board much lately because we are in the middle of rather contentious negotiations on DS's IEP for next year and that has been taking a lot of my time and energy.

I'm glad to hear your meeting went relatively well. I hope you and the district can come to an agreement you all feel happy with.


....So you were told that asynchronous development is a red flag for a larger issue at play? It's such a tough thing, I feel like most kids I know are ahead in some things and behind in others, but at the same time, DS's extremes are probably more...extreme, IYKWIM. It's so hard to know what will even out as he gets older, just from maturity, being around other kids more, etc., and what's a real "issue".

This is really not unusual for kids with special needs. DS just had his three-year re-evals for special ed services. His test scores were all over the place, ranging from less than 1%ile to over 99%ile. He even has combinations of test scores that when taken together are "theoretically impossible" according to the school psychologist. ;) DS has a very unusual learning profile and the school doesn't always know how to handle it.

Sometimes test scores that are very asynchronous can help determine a specific diagnosis, when considered along with other things. It can be helpful to share this information with your family doctor or developmental pediatrician.

[jenfromnj]

I missed this thread before. I haven't been on the board much lately because we are in the middle of rather contentious negotiations on DS's IEP for next year and that has been taking a lot of my time and energy.

I'm glad to hear your meeting went relatively well. I hope you and the district can come to an agreement you all feel happy with.



This is really not unusual for kids with special needs. DS just had his three-year re-evals for special ed services. His test scores were all over the place, ranging from less than 1%ile to over 99%ile. He even has combinations of test scores that when taken together are "theoretically impossible" according to the school psychologist. ;) DS has a very unusual learning profile and the school doesn't always know how to handle it.

Sometimes test scores that are very asynchronous can help determine a specific diagnosis, when considered along with other things. It can be helpful to share this information with your family doctor or developmental pediatrician.

Thanks for responding, Gena! I'm sorry that the negotiations for your son's IEP are so contentious. I was shocked to find out firsthand how difficult and just plain mean and uncooperative the school district could be.

I feel like our meeting was successful insofar as the school at least got the message that we weren't going to just accept whatever they said/offered without question, and won't be pushed to do something we don't think is in DS's best interest. They seem to want to do whatever is easiest for them, not necessarily best for DS, and we just refuse to accept that. I give you so much credit for working full-time while doing all of this--I seriously feel like it's my full time job lately just to deal with the school!

[azazela]

Thank you, Catherine! It did go pretty well. They were much more receptive to our concerns/issues when in a more formalized setting, thankfully. We are still trying to decide how to proceed from here, but at the very least, things aren't as ugly as they were before. We also made it clear that we're aware that the "sorry, no space" excuse is not going to fly, so we'll see where that takes us.

I'm glad to hear that the meeting went better than your previous interactions. I just want to make sure you know that using a "no space" excuse is definitely very much illegal. They would need to open another class. Preschool classes for next year can't already be full now. Just think of all the kids in your town who will be turning 3 after your son. Where are they going to put them?

[MamaKath]

It did go pretty well. They were much more receptive to our concerns/issues when in a more formalized setting, thankfully. We are still trying to decide how to proceed from here, but at the very least, things aren't as ugly as they were before. We also made it clear that we're aware that the "sorry, no space" excuse is not going to fly, so we'll see where that takes us.

I have been thinking of you and am so glad to see a somewhat positive update! It sounds like they get that you will advocate for your child, hopefully they will choose to work as a team to come up with the best solutions rather than an opponent.

As to development, any time scores are all over it is a concern. It can be indicative of any number of issues. Depending on the lags and how far behind they are, they choose their actions. If the lags are not bad enough they may take a wait and see approach. If they lag slightly but excel in other similar circumstances they may not qualify them at all. I hope that your team recognizes your concerns and provides services!

[jenfromnj]

I'm glad to hear that the meeting went better than your previous interactions. I just want to make sure you know that using a "no space" excuse is definitely very much illegal. They would need to open another class. Preschool classes for next year can't already be full now. Just think of all the kids in your town who will be turning 3 after your son. Where are they going to put them?

Thank you! I think that things are just a mess there since they are moving to full day K next year and 1 of the preschool classrooms is being sacrificed, leading to a major scramble. And it was a recent decision, which is only compounding things.

The frustrating thing is mainly that they are trying to dance around the space issue, saying that they think he might be better in another school/class, but can't really say why, just citing a "fit" issue. Argh.

[jenfromnj]

I have been thinking of you and am so glad to see a somewhat positive update! It sounds like they get that you will advocate for your child, hopefully they will choose to work as a team to come up with the best solutions rather than an opponent.

As to development, any time scores are all over it is a concern. It can be indicative of any number of issues. Depending on the lags and how far behind they are, they choose their actions. If the lags are not bad enough they may take a wait and see approach. If they lag slightly but excel in other similar circumstances they may not qualify them at all. I hope that your team recognizes your concerns and provides services!

Thanks, MamaKath. I've read up on all the laws relating to this (I feel like I'm becoming an expert out of necessity!), so I have a good idea what our rights are, as well as the school's obligations. This definitely helped at our last meeting--once they realized that I knew these things, they seemed to take what we had to say more seriously.