Update--#42--WWYD--Dispute with Vacation House Rental

[StantonHyde]

We went in with another family to bid on/win a vacation house at our school's charity auction. We assumed that since the school was being offered at a school auction, that the house would be suitable for kids and a great vacation spot. The school used the brief description from the VRBO site. Of course, we paid a good $500 over market value--but it was for charity.

While it was a great house, the location was really bad. On the rainy side of the Big Island, 15 mins out of town, no sand beaches, we were responsble for driving the trash to the dump, and---the owners apparently expected that we would leave it SPOTLESS. huh? It's on a VRBO type site, so this house is rented out often. We have rented many houses and we generally leave it picked up, put the dirty towels in a pile in the bathroom, leave the beds unmade so they can be stripped etc. This house had 3 beds and 3 baths--maybe it was 1500 sq ft. It POURED every day we were there and we even paid extra to get a hotel on the sunny side of the island so we could go snorkeling for the day. So we get back and here is the email from the owner:

Hi Rebecca, I hope you had a great trip to Hilo. Our housekeeper called and told us the hours that her and her daughter spent cleaning the house. I hestitated to allow two families with children and due to the important fund raiser I decided we would go ahead and allow extra people in the house. Since this is our second home we were dismayed and the report on the condition it was left. We have rented it to families and have never had this much clean up before. I was also disappointed that our master bedroom dresser was used as a food buffet. Garbage was left and instructions were to drop off the garbage at the transfer station. I will not donate this house again to this fundraiser and will let the school know how disappointed we were with families out of control. I am also forwarding my email which discussed with you leaving the house fairly clean. Our housekeeper has totaled 12 hours at this point and now the deck will be an additional fee.

Below is my first attempt at a repsonse email. I am still jet lagged and need help. I don't want to get into a pissing match. I just think that their expectations were unreasonable and what the hell is wrong with their housekeeper--our one housekeeper can clean our 3+K sq ft house in 4 hours. I had intended to let the school know that they should not auction the house again--not a good fit for families. Good for older people who want to relax and play golf but not for kids who want sun and a beach. My goal here is: to let the school know that we are not hooligans, to smooth things over a bit with the owners and their contact at the school, and to let the owners know that we left the house as clean as we could. On the site, they charge a $300 cleaning deposit--should we offer to send the owners $300 to help pay for the cleaning? I want to be fair but I do feel cheated out of a good vacation and that there was miscommunication all around. So I think that $300 would at least be a peace offering.

I am sorry that the housekeeper has needed that much time and I am actually quite surprised. We have rented houses many times and do our best to leave the house picked up, as many dishes washed as possible, etc. There was food taken throughout the house—children do walk around with snacks. And the mud around the house did end up on the deck—due to the fact that it rained extremely hard every day we were there, there wasn’t much to prevent the mud on the deck.

Trash: We did take out all of the trash on Thursday morning. The trash that was left in the garage was deposited between Thursday evening and Friday morning. Since the transfer station was not open on Friday, we couldn't take more trash.
Dishes: We did leave one load of clean dishes and had to leave some breakfast dishes in the sink.
Linens: I would have expected that all of the linens would have been used--even with only 6 people. We left the towels on the floor just like we do in hotels and we left the beds unmade so they could be stripped.
Cleaning: I would expect that the bathrooms and the kitchen would need to be scrubbed/wiped down.

Our regular housekeeper cleans our home (that is at least twice as big as the Hilo house) in 4 hours max. I really am not sure how it could take 12 hours to clean the Hilo house. Again I am sorry that the house was not left as you are used to ....

Any help you can give would be great!!!! Thanks.

[wellyes]

I think your expectations for how to treat and leave a vacation rental are totally normal and reasonable. I'd expect to lose my cleaning deposit but I'd NOT expecd to send those folks an extra $300!!

I think it's rather crappy of them to send the school a note that you were slobs.

I think your email sounds fine. I'm sorry your vacation was a disappointment.

[StantonHyde]

Well, I think we didn't pay a cleaning deposit--I think the school got all the money and the owners just donated the house. I think the school should send them $300 since they listed the donation that turned out not to be a good idea, but I guess I am trying to be nice!

[kristenk]

She says this in her email: "I am also forwarding my email which discussed with you leaving the house fairly clean."

Can you share what she said in that email? That might help with a response.

[scrooks]

I think your expectations for how to treat and leave a vacation rental are totally normal and reasonable. I'd expect to lose my cleaning deposit but I'd NOT expecd to send those folks an extra $300!!

I think it's rather crappy of them to send the school a note that you were slobs.

I think your email sounds fine. I'm sorry your vacation was a disappointment.

Ditto! How you left the house sounds typical of what we have done with vacation rentals in the past. Last summer the house we stayed at did request we toss a load of towels in the washer before we left so we did that, but that was a specific request and not a big deal. We have never stripped beds etc.

[Pennylane]

Just playing devils advocate.... Was there food trash everywhere? I would never think of leaving stuff like that around a house. We also always strip the beds of any linens and put them in a pile with the towels.

As far as the location and the weather, nothing can be done about that. Sounds like it just wasn't a good fit, no ones fault. I would not offer to give them any extra money though.

Ann

[TwinFoxes]

I wouldn't respond to the owner honestly. If I did it would be short and sweet. If you want to let the school know, I'd write a short email saying you left it the way you've left other rental homes with no problems.

12 hours is ridiculous. But I would have done all the dishes (for all you know housekeepers wouldn't be there for a few days, yuck) and wiped up the mud. And probably folded the dirty towels. I think of vacation homes differently than hotels. That being said, what you describe seems not worth her getting upset over.

[MommyofAmaya]

Oh no. What a terrible feeling. I would not have folded any dirty towels or made the beds. They certainly have unrealistic expectations, unless it was specifically stated that you were responsible for preparing the property for the next renters yourself (I have rented at some military cabins that had this requirement). Sorry you are dealing this this.

[SnuggleBuggles]

It sounds like it might be a mix of them having possibly unrealistic expectations and you leaving it in not so great shape. I'd have done every dish (even the very last dish used), gotten rid of any food evidence from other rooms...I tend to be really thorough with rental clean ups and stop short of scrubbing things down. I'd probably be a bit mor conciliatory re. the housekeeping and take out the bit about how longer your cleaner takes. What an absolute bummer all around though! I'm sorry!!

[Carrots]

Well, I think we didn't pay a cleaning deposit--I think the school got all the money and the owners just donated the house. I think the school should send them $300 since they listed the donation that turned out not to be a good idea, but I guess I am trying to be nice!

I disagree. It is not the school's fault that a "donation" didn't work out. I would contact the school to tell them your side, but honestly, it is out of their hands and should be between you and the homeowner. Do your kids go to the school that held the fundraiser?

I any house rental we have done, there has always been "rules" or and a contract we sign with how the property should be left. In recent years, we have always stripped the beds and left the towels on the floor in the bathroom. We make sure the dishes are done and, fridge is cleaned out of food, and floors vacuumed (if there is a vacuume available), but that is just me.

If you honestly left the house as you said you did, then I would be mortified and furious that the housekeeper and owner are trying to hit you with an additional charge. However, if there is any doubt in your mind that the house was worse off than you are describing, you may want to send a check.

As the for the owner, she should put into the rental contract how the home should look upon guests arriving and leaving the property/what the expectations are and how much per hour renters will be charged if the housekeeper has to spend additional time cleaning.

I'm sorry it didn't work out!

[pastrygirl]

Did they have anything in writing about how the house was supposed to be left? I've only rented one vacation house, and it was stated that we had to clean and launder EVERYTHING, fold and put towels away, make the beds, vacuum, etc., leaving it ready for the next family. I wouldn't imagine leaving it like I do a hotel room... ETA: I also never let my kids eat in any room other than the kitchen and dining room at home, and keep the same rules at any other house. If I ever rented out a property, I wouldn't think to say "food in kitchen only," because I don't know anyone IRL who doesn't have that rule.

Still, they must be exaggerating about how long it took to clean! That's ridiculous. Unless they added up every activity separately -- like the time for doing laundry added onto whatever they did at the same time? Which would be silly.

[ecofem]

we have rented thru VRBO several times. We leave towels either on the Bathroom floor, in the tub, or in hamper... if provided. We do not strip beds and leave them unmade. We do put all garbage in outside can/dumpster and put all dirty dishes in dishwasher (turn the dishwasher on before we leave).

The cleaning staff unloads the clean dishes from the dishwasher, take care of cleaning the towels & sheets and clean the house.

We generally do not leave a ton of crumbs and stuff around... but we definitely do not scrub the house down before we leave. We make sure it is tidy, but let the cleaning staff do the heavy lifting. Each house may specify how they want stuff cleaned or not cleaned.... we just read whatever the conditions for renting are and follow them.

I think your response sounds fine. Depending on what condition you left the house in would determine whether I offered up additional money for cleaning. 12 hours sounds excessive for cleaning, unless a herd of elephants ran thru the house!

[wellyes]

OP, I feel for you. We had a vacation rental this summer and the owner wrote us furious that the septic system was broken because he was convinced our kids threw tons of paper into the toilet. They were a childless couple, I guess that they didn't get that I'd NEVER leave a toddler alone in a bathroom long enough to do any damage!! My guess is that septic systems just need repairs sometimes.

For all you know, the housecleaner is exaggerating in order to increase her income.

Did they have anything in writing about how the house was supposed to be left? I've only rented one vacation house, and it was stated that we had to clean and launder EVERYTHING, fold and put towels away, make the beds, vacuum, etc., leaving it ready for the next family. I wouldn't imagine leaving it like I do a hotel room...That is actually pretty gross - depending on a tired family at the end of the vacation to make sure all the linens are clean. They don't have incentive to do anything but make the beds, fluff the towels in the dryer for 10 minutes then fold them. Not saying that's what *I* would do - but - I could see it happening.

[pastrygirl]

That is actually pretty gross - depending on a tired family at the end of the vacation to make sure all the linens are clean. They don't have incentive to do anything but make the beds, fluff the towels in the dryer for 10 minutes then fold them. Not saying that's what *I* would do - but - I could see it happening.Ewwww... I didn't even think of that! Gross!!

OP, is there any chance anyone else got in there (or on the deck, if that was messy?) and really messed things up?

[vludmilla]

I would not send $300. I have never cleaned up a vacation house as thoroughly as it sounds she would have liked. I do leave it tidy (no dishes in the sink, no obvious messes) but I wouldn't sweep or wipe things down other than maybe crumbs on the counter. As for food all over the house, that wouldn't apply with us since we don't let DD eat food anywhere but in the kitchen and dining room.

[niccig]

Each house may specify how they want stuff cleaned or not cleaned.... we just read whatever the conditions for renting are and follow them.


What did they specify for cleaning?

A friend rents their cabin just to people they know, and she has a very detailed list of what is to be cleaned. This includes washing the linens. If people don't want to do it, that have to pay for the housekeeper. I've been there several times with them, so I know her routine and make sure I do everything she asks.

I would want to know what the cleaning requirements were before responding.

[justlearning]

I think it's a difficult situation considering that the owner donated the use of the house. We stayed in a rental house for a five days for free because the owner had donated its use to a cancer organization, which in turn offered it to us as a getaway while DS was undergoing chemo.

We treated that house (which had old furniture) nicer than our own (and we have high standards for our own house including no shoes and food only at the table). We left it impeccably cleaned plus donated $200 to the organization to cover any housekeeping charges that they may incur. The organization was very happy and said that the homeowners wanted to keep donating stays based upon their experience with us. (We were their first family.)

In this case, you paid a lot for your stay so it wasn't a gift to you But the homeowners were donating it as a gift, so I think it would be disappointing for them to see food crumbs on their dresser or any other messes.

The cost of $300 seems high but if I were in your shoes I'd offer to send them something to cover the cost of the housecleaning, say $150 or $200, along with an apology to help smooth things over with them. I'd copy the school on that email so they know you're paying and they don't need to.

[StantonHyde]

The cleaning requirements were: please leave the house fairly clean so the housekeeper doesn't have to do extra work; put away all the dishes, and--take the trash to the public dumpster on Thursday. (the place is closed on Friday). We complied with everything but the dishes--we did leave dishes--again given how early we left, I would be willing to pay to have that done. We did not sign any contract. And we got the cleaning instructions 2 days before we left for vacation. If they had us sign something like that at the very beginning, we could have opted out. The instructions were that there was a housekeeper cleaning up after us--not that we had to leave it for the next guest. (and I would never rent a place that was not professionally cleaned--I don't want to depend on another family to clean up for us.)

I have a feeling that the master bedroom dresser had crumbs on it because the other family was trying to get their kids to eat toast etc. before we got on the plane and they needed to be supervised while the parents were packing (thus in the room with them).

The dining area/kitchen/living room were all one big room at this house so food was carried throughout the great room. My kids did not eat in either of the other 2 bedrooms. But this would just mean wiping down a solid surface with a sponge.

I realize that the weather is the weather--but this place is on the rainy side of the Big Island, so it is expected to rain constantly there. Had I known that, I would not have rented the house. Again--that's just a miscommunication, not anybody's fault. I guess I feel that I could remove any possible guilt on our part by offering to pay the cleaning desposit.

My children do attend the school--thus I don't want to harm the school because my kids depend on the money generated at the auction! I really do appreciate your responses, I need to think this through and make sure we come out as gracefully as possible.

[ecofem]

I think your response sounds good, given the extra details. You might want to offer a token amount - not $300 - for the dishes and trash that you all were not able to take care of. Maybe the family you shared the house with can chip in, too?

Since the house is in Hawaii, and presumably the owners are having to take the word of their cleaning people, neither you or the owner are going to be able to confirm how much time the cleaning people took to clean the house. It sounds to me like the cleaning people are exaggerating their hours, unless again, a herd of elephants or the Beastie Boys ran thru the house.

[Green_Tea]

I'm sorry your experience was disappointing :(.

How I would proceed would depend on if I followed the owner's instructions or not (haven't read all the other replies, so not sure if you've updated) - my parents rented out our family vacation house for 25 years, and we never had a housekeeper. Renters were expected to wash and put away all linens and leave the house in great condition for the next set of renters (so no dishes in the sink, clean the bathrooms, vacuum, etc.). A garbage service got the trash each week, but renters were responsible for that, too, before the town started requiring a sticker to use the dump. We had lots of repeat renters, and only once did a family leave the house in poor condition (they were not allowed to rent again.) Of course, all the requirements were laid out ahead of time so renters knew what was expected of them, and the price to rent for a week was less than other rentals in the same area that had housekeeping services. It was a very family friendly house, so my parents never expected that it would be exactly as they left it (they expected a few broken dishes, wear and tear on the furniture, dings on the walls, etc.) but they did expect that it would be left quite clean (and they made that expectation clear.)

In your shoes, OP, I would be reluctant to have my reputation with my kids' school marred by the incident, and would probably pay to make the problem go away, but if the owner's expectations were not clear I'd be really upset, too.

ETA: OK, just read the rest of the thread. I can kind of see both sides. The owners of the house donated it to a good cause, and now have to foot the cleaning bill. You guys paid a hefty sum, and feel like you didn't get your money's worth. It's a tough situation, and it seems like the expectations were not completely clear. I will say, when we stay in a private home (even through a VRBO type site), I treat the house even better than my own and aim to leave it looking at least as nice as I found it. I am sure that years of having other families rent MY family's home has something to do with that, though. I hope you guys can find a mutually acceptable resolution, and that your next vacation is MUCH sunnier!

[StantonHyde]

Just to be clear--the rent on the house was around $2,500 for the week--so it's not like they were giving us a cut rate. That was the going rate for houses in that area.

I do agree with the statement that the owners donated the house and now have to foot extra for the cleaning bill--so that part isn't fair to them. Thus, I am willing to send them some money for the cleaning. (At this point, it is a housekeeper said vs. what we say etc. so not worth arguing.)

Perhaps I should just email the homeowner--short and sweet--"sorry the cleaning did not meet your expectations. We believe we left the house reasonably clean and we did take the trash out on Thursday. In the spirit of keeping good faith, we would like to send you $150 to cover the extra cleaning. (That's how much we pay our housekeeper to clean a much larger house.)

Then email the longer email to the school??

[TwinFoxes]

Just to be clear--the rent on the house was around $2,500 for the week--so it's not like they were giving us a cut rate. That was the going rate for houses in that area.

I do agree with the statement that the owners donated the house and now have to foot extra for the cleaning bill--so that part isn't fair to them. Thus, I am willing to send them some money for the cleaning. (At this point, it is a housekeeper said vs. what we say etc. so not worth arguing.)

Perhaps I should just email the homeowner--short and sweet--"sorry the cleaning did not meet your expectations. We believe we left the house reasonably clean and we did take the trash out on Thursday. In the spirit of keeping good faith, we would like to send you $150 to cover the extra cleaning. (That's how much we pay our housekeeper to clean a much larger house.)

Then email the longer email to the school??

That sounds reasonable. I really think 12 hours is ridiculous. Unless it normally takes their housekeepers 11 hours to clean. ;)

But as for them not giving you a cut rate, they gave the house for free, for all they knew at the time the winning bid would be $200. It's the school that benefited from the $2500.

[Green_Tea]

But as for them not giving you a cut rate, they gave the house for free, for all they knew at the time the winning bid would be $200. It's the school that benefited from the $2500.

:yeahthat:

I think this is why the owner is upset.

[Zansu]

You don't owe them anything.

We tidy up after ourselves, but because we know the house cleaner is coming, we don't "clean." Towels are left in a pile, beds are left unmade but pillows and comforters are on the bed or a chair.

We leave that day's trash, and we leave left-over food for the cleaning crew.

I would let the school know that this donor has unrealistic expectations tied to the donation and that the school should not re-solicit this donor.

[justlearning]

Perhaps I should just email the homeowner--short and sweet--"sorry the cleaning did not meet your expectations. We believe we left the house reasonably clean and we did take the trash out on Thursday. In the spirit of keeping good faith, we would like to send you $150 to cover the extra cleaning. (That's how much we pay our housekeeper to clean a much larger house.)

Then email the longer email to the school??

I think this sounds good. I would copy the school on the same email (so she sees you're cc'ing them) and not email the school anything else.

[sntm]

It sounds like they were not as clear as they should have been, but I agree that you did leave dirty dishes and food crumbs when you were asked not to, which to me would be the biggest issue. Not knowing when the housecleaning staff was coming, that could attract insects/rodents, etc.

FWIW, the amount of time to clean really can vary depending on how thorough the cleaners are. My house is 2400 feet, and my cleaner (who is hardworking, efficient but very thorough) takes 10 hours to clean it. 12 hours isn't out of the question if they were cleaning the outside also, doing laundry, doing dishes, and cleaning all the rooms.

[StantonHyde]

Thanks again for the repllies. We actually knew that the housekeeper would be there at 9 am--she had asked us when we were leaving because she wanted to get an early start. So I didn't have an issue with leaving crumbs to be wiped off the kitchen counter.

I will email the school because I don't want them to think we are horrid. And even if there wasn't a dispute, I would not recommend the house for the auction again--not a good location for families. (that's not the fault of anybody, just is what it is) My email to the school will just be that we did clean, that we wanted to make peace for the benefit of the school, and that the house wasn't the best location for a family vacation. I am going to talk with the school contact tomorrow before I send any emails. I will see what she says.

I appreciate your perspectives and ideas!

[HannaAddict]

I think this sounds good. I would copy the school on the same email (so she sees you're cc'ing them) and not email the school anything else.

Yes, to this and the prior poster. Short and sweet, not defensive or angry about it being on what is widely known to be the lush, wet side of Hawaii. Hilo is not where I would go for a beach vacation, not the owners fault at all and not something I would complain to the school about. Some people might like it and think it is fine for their kids. Or might have bid on it and not taken the kids (sounds like they allowed a larger group than they will knowingly rent to for the auction). Two families can be hard on a rental house. We rented with another family and neither of us our slobs, but it would take awhile to get the house back to where strangers would want to rent it, if that makes sense. Far longer than our housekeepers doing our house weekly, even though our home is also twice the size of the rental. When you clean after a rental, you have to clean everything so the new folks won't be upset (sounds like it was clean when you got there) including dishes, laundry, making sure things are put away in the right spots, exterior mud cleaned off, etc., no crumbs that they can find or water rings from glasses (just an example). It should be a far cry if they do a good job from a weekly cleaning of the same residence every week. I bet the housekeeper and her daughter were both there for six hours, hence the 12 hours. And I doubt they are padding their time, it sounds like the owners were truly distraught about what was relayed to them and have had the same cleaners who haven't gouged before. The owners did something nice by donating, I would do the short and sweet email and contribute some $$ as a goodwill gesture and not think about it any longer. I hope you had fun though, we found an amazing grotto with hot spring right by the ocean on the Hilo side, it seriously looked like it was from a movie set or Days of our Lives. Totally alone too for almost an hour before a local came with his child and looked sad to see us! Try the Kona side next time.

[BabyH]

You don't owe them anything.

We tidy up after ourselves, but because we know the house cleaner is coming, we don't "clean." Towels are left in a pile, beds are left unmade but pillows and comforters are on the bed or a chair.

We leave that day's trash, and we leave left-over food for the cleaning crew.

I would let the school know that this donor has unrealistic expectations tied to the donation and that the school should not re-solicit this donor.

:yeahthat:

I can't even believe the owner emailed you... it just seems a bit tactless, IMHO. You live, you learn, if she wasn't happy with the way things were left, she never should have emailed you about it, she should have just accepted what her housekeeper said and continued about her business.
(Obviously my feelings about this would change if there was property actually destroyed or ruined, but to OP's credit, it doesn't sound like she did anything different than any of us do when renting a vacation place.)

[blisstwins]

(That's how much we pay our housekeeper to clean a much larger house.)

People like these owners should not donate their property and they should not have emailed you. I do think you should have washed all the dishes and cleaned a bit more, given that the place was donated by a family in the school, however.

I would send the short, non-defensive email, and a check, but I would leave out the above line. It makes you sound kinda petty--sorry, JMO. I would be very frustrated and embarrassed were I you. Sounds like you are kind and willing to take the high road though, so just take that line out.

[StantonHyde]

given that the place was donated by a family in the school, however.

Sounds like you are kind and willing to take the high road though, so just take that line out.


The people who donated somehow know another family at the school. The owners don't even live in our state. I agree with you with wanting to sound kind and non defensive--thanks!

[solsister]

As a frequent vacation home renter, and a vacation home owner, I think you are just fine, and I would not respond to her. I would email the school, and I would take it as a lesson learned. Don't bid on stuff at auctions, without more information! hahaah

I would NEVER send an email like that, after donating to a good cause (which we've done on a regular basis for 8 years). It seems tactless and just sort of sullies the kind intentions, somehow.

In all our time renting our home, we've had a few messy people, but they are balanced out by the people who pay 150.00 for a cleaning fee (house is 2800 sq ft), and leave it spotless. We have a 65 yr old house cleaner, who does ALL the linens, dishes, vacuums, washes down and cleans all counters, does dishes, cleans bathroom, etc. in FOUR hours. Eleven hours is just silly.

[niccig]

I wonder that with more people in the house then they're used to, and more kids, that the house wasn't as it's normally left. Nothing out of the ordinary for 2 families, but if they just have a few adults or less kids, it would be less to clean.

I also wonder if they're now regretting the donation. Not only are they out the weekly rental, they're also out what the renter would pay for a cleaning fee - as this is either extra or part of the weekly rent.

The only thing that gives me pause is that it sounds like you didn't know the other family had the kids eating in the bedroom for that last breakfast. I wonder if their part of the house was messier. We all share the same bathroom and DS can make a right mess with the toothpaste, his side of the countertop is always messier and takes longer to clean.

Leaving trash, dirty dishes and some food crumbs is a no-no in climates like Hawaii. A trail of ants could be in there in no time, so that may have annoyed the owner.

I'm not sure what to do...maybe talk to someone at school and get a feel for the situation.

[cuca_]

I also wonder if they're now regretting the donation. Not only are they out the weekly rental, they're also out what the renter would pay for a cleaning fee - as this is either extra or part of the weekly rent.

Well I also wonder if they were regretting the donation before you even got there. Do you know if she has donated this stay before? It appears to me that the owner could be taking out her pent up frustrations on you. I wonder if she felt pressure to make the donation, and was also frustrated that it was not restricted to adults. Honestly, crumbs, mud and dirty dishes do not justify the email she sent. You did not damage their house. If they were not prepared to forego a week's rent and pay for the cleaning they should not have donated it. I think she is using you as the excuse to get out of donating a week next year. I agree with solsister - her email is totally tactless.

[niccig]

This is the part that makes me think they regret the whole idea:

"I hesitated to allow two families with children "

I bet they normally only do 1 family at a time, or adults only. But when they donated it, there's no control over who bids on it.

I do think some people's expectations aren't realistic when it comes to numbers of people. With more people in the house, you're going to use more of the house.

We had a school fundraiser dinner at a small restaurant that is just around the corner from DS's school. They complained the next day about the kids' behaviour and general mess. Turns out the service was incredibly slow, orders got messed up, and there was too many people for the space. The staff were overwhelmed. The school refunded money raised to the restaurant and apologised, reminded all to watch behaviour on these events, and then restricted all future events to bigger places. I think it helped that a Dad owns a restaurant and has hosted these fundraisers many a time, and he went to bat for the families saying that he's never experienced an issue, and as he was there at the other restaurant, he could say that the service was dismal.

[ha98ed14]

I think it helped that a Dad owns a restaurant and has hosted these fundraisers many a time, and he went to bat for the families saying that he's never experienced an issue, and as he was there at the other restaurant, he could say that the service was dismal.

Good for him! It's great that he stood up for the needs of children!!!

I was invited to a baby shower and the invitation was addressed to me AND DD; both of our names were on the outside of the envelope. I emailed the hostess to confirm that this was a child-friendly event as DD is only 4. I thought maybe she thought DD was a teenager. She writes back to say that mom-to-be has invited a few selected children (she has watched DD for me on occasion) BUT that there were no games and activities so DD and the other "children coming will have to sit there and behave themselves!" I thought, "Then why invite them?!" I hope someday mom-to-be's DC come over to the hostess' house and has at it!

[niccig]

BUT that there were no games and activities so DD and the other "children coming will have to sit there and behave themselves!" I thought, "Then why invite them?!"

Obviously the hostess doesn't have kids!

I do take things for DS to do at people's homes that don't have kids or their kids are older/younger, but not one has expected DS to sit there and not do anything.

[MontrealMum]

I think you've got your response down now but I just wanted to say, as someone with years of vacation rental experience, I think that a large part of the "fault", if there is one, is with the owners. What you've detailed as their instructions are extremely brief and vague.

Every beach house we've rented - and I think there have been 6 in total, most more than once - has had at least 2 pages of instructions regarding our stay. Everything from how to deal with a septic system to where the county dump is and when to go.

Some of the places we've rented we've only done a cursory cleaning - since that was agreed upon beforehand, and detailed in the instructions. And a cleaning service was expected to come in behind us. We've brought out own linens too, sometimes because we're crunchy and picky that way ;) At our most recent, and favored, rental (4 years running) we do a deep clean, top to bottom, washing sheets, towels, dishes, and the deck . I don't know the size offhand but it's a big place. Beachfront (in MI), 3 floors, 3 baths, sleeps at least 8. It takes us 2-3hours, tops. It'd be quicker if we didn't have DS to corral ;) We are 2 adults cleaning and packing and a third chasing after DS. I am shocked that a professional cleaner could take 12 hours in a house that size. I would not fork over any more money in terms of cleaning. I think that although this is an unfortunate occurrence, the owner's expectations are somewhat out of line.

My dad lives in condo vacation community (again, on Lake Michigan) and is part of the board that runs their rental program. The sort of stuff being discussed here is always spelled out in the contract, and in the lists that owners leave behind in their units for renters. I'm kind of surprised at the vague directives that you leave it "fairly clean".

[TwinFoxes]

Well I also wonder if they were regretting the donation before you even got there. Do you know if she has donated this stay before? It appears to me that the owner could be taking out her pent up frustrations on you. I wonder if she felt pressure to make the donation, and was also frustrated that it was not restricted to adults. Honestly, crumbs, mud and dirty dishes do not justify the email she sent. You did not damage their house. If they were not prepared to forego a week's rent and pay for the cleaning they should not have donated it. I think she is using you as the excuse to get out of donating a week next year. I agree with solsister - her email is totally tactless.

:yeahthat: I agree. I have a feeling her friend asked her to donate, and she's one of those hates to say no and then gets all passive aggressive people. Her email to you just seems way too upset.

[MamaMolly]

What the heck does fairly clean mean anyway? We could ask 100 people and get 100 different answers. Add my name to the list that thinks the owner was probably drafting some sort of email before the bidding even began.

[StantonHyde]

Thanks again. There were 2 pages of house instructions--hot water heater, etc, but it only told us to tale the trash on designated days (which we did) & to pit away all dishes ( we did leave a few bowls). Nothing on cleaning or linens etc. We left the house every day to do activities & never had ant/rodent issues despite crumbs etc.

I will try to talk to the school today--hopefully I will have a good update.

Eta--when we stay at a friends vacay house, we totally clean before we leave--because there isn't a housekeeper & she let's us stay there for cheap. But that's all spelled pu. Sigh, lesson learned here!

[StantonHyde]

So I talked to the contact person who had talked to the owners. She asked my perspective and I said that we did leave the house as I have described here. She brought up the email from the owner saying that she did not recommend the house for 2 families with children--I replied that the owner did not say no and that by the time I had this conversation with the owner, it was too late for one family to back out and expect the other family to pay. She agreed.

Turns out--the school did pay for the cleaning fee (they probably gave them out of our bid--some for the owners and the rest for the school), so their cleaning costs are covered. I did reiterate that we would be willing to pay the fee for a good faith effort. The contact person thought that was nice of us. She did say that the owners would not list the house again and I said that was ok given the location of the house. The contact person said that I should not add that comment and I agreed and said the house was lovely and that I would contact the school's development officer to see if we needed to pay for the cleaning.

The DO has not called me back. I feel bad for the contact--who wants that grief on a weekend? And I am sure she feels very bad for the owners since she asked them to donate. I am a little perturbed that the owner emailed us since the cleaning costs were covered. oh well.

[TwinFoxes]

It just seems like a lot of bad communication. Either she should have made it clear to the school, or the school should have made it clear at the auction that only X number of kids/families were allowed. I don't think the location is relevant at all, a lot of people would love it, it's just not your cup of tea. So I don't think that needed to be disclosed.

I would pay the school if the cleaning deposit isn't returned, I would feel bad if my kids' school had to eat the cost.

It sucks that this has turned into such a PITB for you.

[ha98ed14]

I feel bad for the contact--who wants that grief on a weekend? And I am sure she feels very bad for the owners since she asked them to donate. I am a little perturbed that the owner emailed us since the cleaning costs were covered. oh well.

When people behave like is owner is, I always think that they must have small boring lives to get their panties in a twist over such small things. It's not like you gave it to your frat boy son and 7 of his closest friends. Owner is making grief for the contact, the DO and you even tho her costs were covered? Yeah, something tells me that owner likes to complain and is psyched when she has a captive audience.

If you want to donate $300 to the school and have the cash to do it, then do it. Or do $150 and call it done. Either way, I don't think you have anything to feel bad over. They donated the use of the house to a school; who did they think would be coming? The kids' retired grandparents?