staying rational through sleep issues

[lmh2402]

DS has been sleeping like absolute sh!t lately.

for the past month, almost every other night has at least one waking. he goes into bed at the same time each day, but will often spend an hour or more yelling for me for one thing or another - he dropped a toy, he can't find a specific blanket, etc.

he's been waking almost an hour earlier than he had been waking

he's also seriously struggling with naps. i'd say on average, twice a week he skips/yells through. i generally leave him for an hour regardless, but it's definitely without sleeping at least twice a week.

the other days, he will sleep a minimum of 1.5 hours for nap. sometimes 2-2.5.

right now we are at my mom's yesterday and today b/c we were having painting done.

he took a good nap yest.

last night was a total, total nightmare. like - in his crib at 7 and screamed until 9. he then work for the day at 5:30.

spent the morning yawning. and has now screamed through his nap.

i don't know how to get back on track.

but worse than that. far worse. i don't know how to not feel insanely, irrationally, psychotically angry.

seriously. i feel like i'm losing my mind.

my DH is never around.

i thought i would have at least some adult interaction for two days at my parents house. but last night, my parents went out with friends. so instead of being alone in my own house. i was alone in theirs. with my screaming kid and their crazy-ass dog

and now, today, i'm here...working from home. and my mom put him down for a nap. and left to get a pedicure.

no nap. so now i'm not able to work

and i want to scream. seriously. i am shaking with rage.

i feel like the worst mother in the world for barely holding it together, but people...i'm seriously going to lose it here.

thoughts on how to be less angry really quickly?

thanks.

[jse107]

I just try to remind myself that he will be a teenager someday and I'll never get him out of bed....

Hang in there. It won't last forever.:hug:

[mikala]

What I'd do...

Step away to a room as far away from his noise as you can. Run bathwater, a fan, whatever to give yourself white noise. Breathe.

And then get thee to the nearest library for Ferber or your sleep expert of choice to at least give yourself a plan and understand some of the sleep craziness.

And call in reinforcements, whatever it takes to help you out while you work through this sucky sleep stage.

:hug: Sleep stuff is hard enough in general but pregnancy adds an entirely new level to it. We've gone through a milder version of sleep issues lately and I've really struggled to keep my composure at times.

[boolady]

I hate to say this when you sound like you need a break, but your DS is 3, right? My DD didn't really nap after 3, unfortunately. Is it possible that he really needs to drop the nap, and then you wouldn't have the daytime issues plus the night waking? You could find something else to do with him during naptime-- quiet time in his room where he's allowed to look at books or play with toys, etc., but I think it's very possible he's done napping.

[Momit]

Ugh. Sleep issues are so frustrating. And they seem to snowball and get worse (no nap = cr@ppy sleep at night and vice versa) before they get better. DS has had a few spurts where he doesn't sleep well, but thankfully they have never lasted too long.

When your mom gets home, can you tell her she needs to watch DS while you run to Starbucks/library etc. to finish your workday (or maybe go shopping or to a movie).

I obviously don't have great advice but wanted to say something and send you a hug.

[hillview]

Ugh ds2 was a bit like this. We dropped the nap before age 3.

[Tondi G]

sorry to say that it might be time to drop naps. It might make your DS's nighttime sleep actually improve. Yes you won't be getting that break in the middle of the day but maybe you could institute a 1 hour "rest/down time" doesn't mean nap... maybe you pop in a video or turn on the tv for an hour so your kiddo can zone out and you can get a little break.

(((HUGS))) BTDT ... my DS1 was not a great sleeper or napper ... he dropped his naps not too long after he turned 2. It will get better. Just breathe and try to cool down .... he's little, he doesn't know that his not taking naps and nighttime wakings are making his mama crazy. Hang in there!

I agree with the others ... when your Mom gets home maybe you can ask her to watch DS for an hour or 2 so you can get some work done or go get a tea or coffee and decompress a little.

[daisysmom]

sorry to say that it might be time to drop naps. It might make your DS's nighttime sleep actually improve. .

I agree with this.

Some kids just aren't great sleepers. My DD was a great sleeper until 6 months of age and then was a horrible sleeper. From 6 months until close to 4 I am betting, it was one sleepless month after another. She woudl go through bouts of getting in a good sleeping routine, but then get out of it again. I know your pain. I remember several times feeling like my head was literally going to spring off my neck and fall on the floor. I was EXHAUSTED. I went through days and months in a daze. I still will not set my alarm clock because I tell my husband I am due 4 years of uninterrupted sleep.

What did we do to regain sanity: here are some things I remember:
- when she was young (like 8 months), we did CIO. IMO, your dc's age at 3 years is too old for it really though
- moved our dd to a bed. in a bed, you can go in there and sleep in there at least. We do that a lot (or she comes into our room and sleeps with us). I finally accepted (based on good friends who confirmed) that some kids are just like this and need a little more close parenting
- gave up naps. It is heaven on earth the first few weeks becuase you can put them to bed at 6:30 or 7 pm and then they sleep for a LLLLOOOONNNGGG time. We gave up naps right at 3 I think.
- I also gave up housework or much other nightly stuff like organizational projects. It was like triage mode -- like law school exams were for me. I just threw it all to the wind and needed to take time for me. I watched an hour of NCIS when I could and just let my mind go blank. It was really nice.

They do all eventually get over it. My DD is an awesome sleeper at 5 most nights. 2 nights ago she came in at 4 am and was scared of something and it took me about 30 minutes to fall back to sleep (with her there). Yesterday I was a zombie. It was weird recaling that I lived for years like that.

[BabbyO]

Commisserating. Your DS is just a few months older than my DS1. He started dropping naps when I was on maternity leave with DS2. SO frustrating.

Now both of the boys are teething (DS1 is getting 2 yr molars and I think it causes him to wake crying/screaming in the middle of the night) and DS2 has a double ear infection. Add to that a "normal" night sleep (uninterrupted) is only about 5 hrs. I'm a zombie and have been for about 3-4 weeks.

From experience I would recommend:
1. Insist that DH takes at least 1/2 the night wakings.
2. Find a way to get yourself out of the house for a while...even 1 hr. I went to yoga on Saturday AM for 1.5 hr and took a 45 min run on Sunday. My outlook this week is WAY better than it has been in the previous few weeks. Hire a sitter if needed. Give yourself the break you need and deserve. Really...no one is going to be happy if you're frustrated to the point that your frustrated!

Best of luck and lots of hugs!

[daisysmom]

seriously. i feel like i'm losing my mind.

my DH is never around.

.

And a few more thoughts, my DD woudl sense when I was about to absolutely lose it and she would then figure out a way to turn it up a notch, if you can believe it. I think they get scared too when they see that you are scared.

And my DH, who was also never around to really deal with these things, loved to try to second guess things and tell me it would be ok... as he slept through the night b/c DD wanted me, not him (gotta love the man, he would go into my screaming DD and then come back to our room and say "she wants you. What should I do?") Since it was really 100% my problem to deal with, I made the answer and we dropped naps. And when he would suggest that his mother told him that he napped through kindergarten, I would smile and grit my teeth or outrightly bite his head off. I decided when to give up naps (honestly based on a lot of the posts on this board back then) and it was the saving grace for us. Same with getting DD into a bed, and a full sized bed at that (where I could sleep). DH would try to say "well let's try...." and I woudl say that I would gladly go to a hotel for a few nights and he could try whatever he wanted at home with her then.

I hate to make it sound like we don't co-parent, but it is just very hard to understand when you are in a situation where your DC is highly dependent on you, and you love that DC dearly and passionately, but you are just out.of.gas.

[lmh2402]

thanks, guys

my mom is back

i kept my cool

but i know. I KNOW he knows. he knows every little twitch of my face. and he's such a sensitive, twitchy kid to start with

he seeks my approval in a frightening way

after i got him out of the crib he spent literally 30 minutes sobbing on the floor that he was sorry and needed me to be happy

so, from rage to total self-loathing

and of my mother walked in - with her newly painted toes - and proceeded to whisper scream at me that i am a "major cause" of my son's anxiety. and that he looks to me constantly to approve of him. and that if i tell him i am disappointed, or frustrated, or angry, than i am shattering him

what am i supposed to do? never say something isn't ok? or something didn't make me happy. or say that i'm thrilled no matter what?

i'm tired. i'm so, so tired. and i feel like crap that he's so anxious and sad and attuned to my negativity lately

it's like a horrible, vicious cycle.

i feel like i've broken my kid. i was him. all my life. looking to my parents - mostly my dad - for approval. and i never, ever got it. nothing was ever good enough. and i never thought that i would do that to my children. and i still am not 100% convinced that i am doing that. i spend my days focused on him and his needs. but when things are not ok - hitting, kicking, biting, screaming, for example - i cannot pretend that it's just ok so he doesn't think i'm upset.

and when things like totally messed up sleep leave me feeling exhausted too...i struggle to pretend that i'm thrilled. but feel as though i am almost abusing him, i do anything less than coo and say, "no worries, sweetie. i'm so happy you decided to not sleep today."

and now this has gone off in a totally off topic of the original thread.

sorry. i need like a live-in or on-call psychologist. seriously.

and i know you may be right. maybe i just stop offering the nap altogether and see if that helps.

i'm just unsure of that b/c on the days when he does nap, it's pretty good-length. so seems like a lot of sleep to take away from him.

i also have NO IDEA how to enforce a quiet time in his room. i mean, he'd never stay there. or stay quiet. he doesn't know how to play by himself. he can't deal with being on his own - generally away from me...or my mother - for more than like 5-10 min max.

[megs4413]

as others have said, the naps are probably a thing of the past. At 3 yo, I'm surprised you're still even trying. Both of my kids quit napping at 2yo.

I don't know what kind of bedtime routine you have, but if you are not consistent or don't have much of a routine (i mean a half hour to hour long systematic wind down) that is where I would start (aside from eliminating the naps). If that isn't helping, I would ask your pedi for a referral to a sleep specialist.

And on the mental health front, I feel you. I totally and completely understand this. My DS has SN and has never consistently slept through the night (he is 5 now) and sometimes wakes as often as he did as a newborn. It's exhausting and frustrating and just totally and completely draining. I'm sorry that you're struggling with it, too. I hope that you can put a plan together and implement some changes to get you better rest. If nothing works, definitely seek out a sleep specialist and get a sleep study done. It will save your life!

[lmh2402]

as others have said, the naps are probably a thing of the past. At 3 yo, I'm surprised you're still even trying. Both of my kids quit napping at 2yo.

I don't know what kind of bedtime routine you have, but if you are not consistent or don't have much of a routine (i mean a half hour to hour long systematic wind down) that is where I would start (aside from eliminating the naps). If that isn't helping, I would ask your pedi for a referral to a sleep specialist.

And on the mental health front, I feel you. I totally and completely understand this. My DS has SN and has never consistently slept through the night (he is 5 now) and sometimes wakes as often as he did as a newborn. It's exhausting and frustrating and just totally and completely draining. I'm sorry that you're struggling with it, too. I hope that you can put a plan together and implement some changes to get you better rest. If nothing works, definitely seek out a sleep specialist and get a sleep study done. It will save your life!

we are extremely "rigid" - according to pretty much everyone other than me and our OTs / child psychologist, who say DS needs this rigidity. so very, very routine oriented and the same stuff happens every night at pretty much the same time.

it's just not really working right now. i mean, the routine works fine. and he gets into his crib fine. and then it starts to fall apart. he has a million and one things in his crib. and god forbid i try to take any of them out. it's like WWIII. but then he spends an hour fussing about not being able to find one thing or another. it's just a hot mess. i 'm a hot mess. he's a hot mess.

we all need a nap. from now until tomorrow morning.

and then maybe we start fresh and i'll officially cut the nap. :crying:

[boolady]

and then maybe we start fresh and i'll officially cut the nap. :crying:

At this point, I'd say you're going to be in survival mode, especially until the au pair arrives, so if that means he watches part of a movie in lieu of nap time or a Thomas video, do what you need to do. It may be that he does what a lot of kids do when dropping their naps-- go a few days without one, then crash for a few hours once or twice a week to make up for it. If it helps him sleep through the night, and you get some rest, it's worth it.

[megs4413]

thanks, guys

my mom is back

i kept my cool

but i know. I KNOW he knows. he knows every little twitch of my face. and he's such a sensitive, twitchy kid to start with

he seeks my approval in a frightening way

after i got him out of the crib he spent literally 30 minutes sobbing on the floor that he was sorry and needed me to be happy

so, from rage to total self-loathing

and of my mother walked in - with her newly painted toes - and proceeded to whisper scream at me that i am a "major cause" of my son's anxiety. and that he looks to me constantly to approve of him. and that if i tell him i am disappointed, or frustrated, or angry, than i am shattering him

what am i supposed to do? never say something isn't ok? or something didn't make me happy. or say that i'm thrilled no matter what?

i'm tired. i'm so, so tired. and i feel like crap that he's so anxious and sad and attuned to my negativity lately

it's like a horrible, vicious cycle.

i feel like i've broken my kid. i was him. all my life. looking to my parents - mostly my dad - for approval. and i never, ever got it. nothing was ever good enough. and i never thought that i would do that to my children. and i still am not 100% convinced that i am doing that. i spend my days focused on him and his needs. but when things are not ok - hitting, kicking, biting, screaming, for example - i cannot pretend that it's just ok so he doesn't think i'm upset.

and when things like totally messed up sleep leave me feeling exhausted too...i struggle to pretend that i'm thrilled. but feel as though i am almost abusing him, i do anything less than coo and say, "no worries, sweetie. i'm so happy you decided to not sleep today."

and now this has gone off in a totally off topic of the original thread.

sorry. i need like a live-in or on-call psychologist. seriously.

and i know you may be right. maybe i just stop offering the nap altogether and see if that helps.

i'm just unsure of that b/c on the days when he does nap, it's pretty good-length. so seems like a lot of sleep to take away from him.

i also have NO IDEA how to enforce a quiet time in his room. i mean, he'd never stay there. or stay quiet. he doesn't know how to play by himself. he can't deal with being on his own - generally away from me...or my mother - for more than like 5-10 min max.

I remember your anxiety thread! Oh, honey! I didn't realize we were talking about the same kid in my original response! A few thoughts:

1. dropping the nap doesn't mean they won't be tired at say 4 or 5 in the afternoon. it just means you don't let them go to sleep that early. BOTH of my kids would sleep 2-3 hours in the afternoon if I'd let them, but then they won't sleep at night. So in the interest of saving our nighttime sleep, they go to bed early (at age 3, 7pm) and skip the naps. Both of my kids still follow this pattern. My average needs kid has never had a sleep problem since we implemented this plan. She continues to sleep well for about 12-13 straight hours every single day. Don't fear the afternoon fatigue!

2. go see a therapist. now. as soon as possible. whatever. just go. do it. you need it. and it's not because you've failed, in fact, it would be failure NOT to get help when you need it.

3. in my initial response i suggested implementing a routine that included eliminating naps, but I think your son's problems with sleep are deeper than that will solve. i would suggest going straight to your pediatrician for a referral to a sleep specialist. it can take MONTHS to get the appointments/testing done that you will need and there is not a MINUTE to waste on this. Your son's behavior issues (the anxiety and sensitivity) could be DIRECTLY related to his sleep problems. I have SOOOO been there with DS. When his sleep is messed up he turns into this overly-emotional, hyperactive scaredy-cat. He also refuses to eat and loses weight. It's awful and it's all about sleep.

Huge, huge HUGS!

[megs4413]

i mean, the routine works fine. and he gets into his crib fine. and then it starts to fall apart. he has a million and one things in his crib. and god forbid i try to take any of them out. it's like WWIII. but then he spends an hour fussing about not being able to find one thing or another.

this all sounds like anxiety related behavior on his part to me. I think you're dealing with one problem that's affecting multiple areas of his life. I don't know what came first: the anxiety or the sleep issues, but each is complicating the other. I cannot recommend a sleep specialist highly enough. seriously. you can PM me anytime if you want to chat about it further. I'm so sorry and please know I am not judging you for a second! BTDT!

[Kindra178]

Honestly, drop naps and put him to bed at 6:30 or 7. It's a tough transition; we are working through it now times 2. Note that his behavior could be awful between the 4-6:30 range, just because he is utterly exhausted. Try this transition now before new baby comes. Good luck!

[Tondi G]

I would give him a small flashlight and let him find his necessary items himself. What happens if you put him to bed and don't go back into his room? If he's had a drink of water and you know the necessary blanket or item is in the crib (do a quick check before lights out cause once the lights are out he can't ask you for anything else) and he has had his hugs and you've read him a story then walk out... done it's bedtime.

When you say he is still in the crib you mean 4 sided or set up like a toddler bed? Maybe it's time to get him a bed? Put a baby gate in his doorway so he can't leave the room. he will have access to his toys and books etc. His bed is at a level where he can get in and out himself. It's quiet time, you may nap, you may play quietly or read books but you have to stay in your room till 1 hour is up and Mommy comes to get you.

I have SO BTDT... I remember laying in DS's twin bed with him begging him to please just take a nap because Mommy is SO TIRED and needs a nap herself. He tossed and turned and asked questions and climbed out of bed and was dragged back into bed and hours later I would give up feeling completely deflated and so angry and exhausted. It was a nightmare. BUT he is an almost 11 year old now and he is the most mellow, easy going happy, super sleeping kid.

Good luck .... hope you get the nap you need and that DS sleeps tonight. Oh and tell your Mom to CAN IT! her comment was the last thing you needed to hear in the moment. If she doesn't have something helpful to offer to the situation then mind your own business!

[lil_acorn]

Do you think he would sleep if you co-slept with him? I understand he is older and it is not ideal, but sleep and sanity are key careabouts of mine and I'd go by the theory that he won't want to sleep with you when he's 12. My dh practically slept with our son until he 5 and he's 7 and sleeps fine now.

[Indianamom2]

I don't have the time right now to send you a long response, but I have SO been there with an anxious non-sleeper and I could have written your post about how you are feeling and just being so angry about it.

One, you have to find some help to give yourself a break. Your Dh, your mom, a babysitter (and I know, this is so hard to do, but easy to say).

Two, seriously talk to your pediatrician about starting melatonin. We finally had to resort to that with DD around age 6.5-7 and I wish I had done it MUCH sooner. Seriously, it won't hurt him and it might make a world of difference. Some kids just need it. Their bodies don't make enough. DD actually asks for it when she gets in a bad cycle.

I'll try to respond more later, but know that it will get better. It might take a while (honestly a couple of years, which seems impossible at the time) but it WILL get better. I'm proof. You are not alone and you are not a bad mom.:hug:

Oh, and a gate on the door is a life-saver. Both of my kids have needed one.