When do kids start to get mean to other kids?

[ourbabygirl]

Recently we hosted a play date with some of my mom friends and their girls, and today DD (3.5) told me that one of the little girls (just turned 4) told DD "I don't like you." I was really shocked to hear that, and it made me so sad, also wondering if it's normal for this stuff to happen so early?!
I didn't quite know what to tell DD, other than to go play with someone else if someone tells her that- that's not a nice thing to say. And that she shouldn't ever say that to someone else, either- friend, family member, whomever- it's not polite, and it's not the way a friend acts. I told her about Thumper and "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." :)

Anyhow, when did you see it start with your own kids and their classmates/ friends? Any tips? The girls don't see one another super often (I'm better friends with her mom), but it makes me want to avoid my friend and her daughter. Seriously, my daughter is so meek & humble, she has the purest, sweetest heart and wouldn't hurt a fly. It just makes me so sad & mad. She's starting preschool in the fall... is this what we're in for already?

[maestramommy]

I think it's luck of the draw. It can start as early as preschool. OTOH, Dora's K teacher was telling me during conference that the kids in her class are very easy going, very kind, tolerant, respectful of each other. Very easy to manage. Quite different from the morning class. I asked her how these class mixes happen, and she said it's just dumb luck. You never know what you're going to get. For preschool and K I'm sure that's true.

[Snow mom]

My DD is the same age as yours and has been experimenting with the power of her words for at least a couple of months. Last night she told DH "You're ruining my life" when he wouldn't let her dunk her bath towel in the water. She has certainly used phrases like "I don't like you" toward us. I don't know that she tells her friends these things but it wouldn't surprise me. She's not being earnest when she says things like that--she's just trying to see what reaction it will get.

[lmh2402]

i don't know the answer to your question, but my DS is a bit younger than your DD and i couldn't read and not send you and your DD some :hug:

that would absolutely break my heart too

DS is always the kid getting pushed out of the way or kind of ignored in groups b/c he is just so unsure in social settings. whenever i observe things like that, it brings tears to my eyes

so i cannot imagine if he told me someone flat-out said, "i don't like you." at such a young age

that really stinks.

:hug: :hug:

[twowhat?]

By the time the girls turned 3 we were already getting stories of "X said I'm stupid" and things like that at school. I was kind of shocked it starts so early as well - it forced me to quickly come up with how I want to handle that situation. Right now I've just been teaching the girls what to say if it makes them feel bad (e.g. "It's not nice to say that. I'm going to go somwhere else".)

A few months ago DD2 came home and said "X put sand in my mouth from the sand table." I was shocked and asked her "So what did you do?" and she said "I drank lots and lots of water" and I said "Next time you spit the sand all over him!" LOLOL. Then I quickly backtracked and told her what she should do next time (say "I don't like that. Stop putting sand in my mouth" and if he keeps doing it, to tell a teacher). So yeah, it is kind of shocking how early it starts.

eta: for months now our girls have been saying things to each other like "I'm not your best friend anymore." "Well, I'm not YOUR best friend anymore". Sigh.

[crl]

Well, when ds was in preschool, the girls all started saying "you're not my friend" at about age three. It ran through the class and took a couple of months to more or less die down even though the teachers were working with the kids on not doing that. I think it is quite typical behavior and, while I would certainly discourage it in my presence and in my children, I wouldn't necessarily stop having playdates over it. At that age it is still mostly about the parent to me, if the parent acts appropriately in response ("Susie, those are not nice words. If you can't be nice, we will have to leave/you will have to sit over there" or whatever is correcting the behavior), I'd keep having playdates.

Catherine

[mackmama]

I was around a 3yo the other day who said some pretty mean things to my niece.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I noticed it with the 4yos back when ds1 was my only. Still seems to be holding true with da2 and almost always the girls.

[buddyleebaby]

My daughter came home from school one day upset that one of her classmates had called her a meanie.
I asked why she did that, and my daughter said that the little girl wanted to play with her, but my daughter told her "No thanks, I just want to do this puzzle right now."
I asked my daughter if she felt what she did was mean and she said no.
Then I explained that the little girl was probably disappointed that my DD did not want to play, and didn't have the right words to express her feelings, so instead she tried to make my DD feel bad. Was it the right thing to do? No. Did it mean my DD was a meanie? No. Did it mean that the other little girl was a meanie? No. She did something mean because her feelings were hurt.
In another example, there was a girl in DD's class who at the beginning of the year would say "Don't talk to me." or stick her tongue out at DD all the time. DD was bewildered and upset. I told her that the little girl must still be learning how to be a good friend, and that it was ok for DD to ignore her in the meantime. The next week DD wore a pink dress and the little girl told her she looked beautiful and they have been best friends ever since. Her mother later confided in me that her DD had come home the first week of school upset because she didn't think she was as beautiful as my daughter. (Her words...apparently she liked my daughter's shoes.)
I think kids have the ability to say/do mean things from a very early age, but I don't think it neccessarily means that they are "mean" kids.

[hoodlims]

Pretty early, if I am judging only by my DD. At 20 months she started yelling, "No Bella!", then, "I no play with Bella!" everytime she saw this girl. It was pretty embarrassing. To be fair, her friend was an aggressive player at the time and my DD got pushed a lot, or would get a toy taken right out of her hands. Now this girl is a much better player, and my DD doesn't say these things anymore. She can still lash out at her baby brother when she gets upset with him though - she will make an attempt to hit him. She will try to do the same to me when she is mad. We are working with her on her anger management. So if that is what you mean by "mean", yes, pretty early. But if you are talking about insulting kids or being snobby, I have no idea!

[wencit]

From my own personal experience, I've seen it start as early as preschool.

My DS1 used to be the most carefree, happy, confident little kid, until one day he ran into a friend at an indoor playground who meanly told him, "I don't want to play with you!" This was right before DS1's 5th birthday. He was in complete shock and came running to me, very upset. Ever since then, he's been really timid in big groups, whereas before this incident, he would just jump right in and play with everyone. He went through a stage of shyly asking each and every kid, "Is it OK if I play with you?" multiple times. Granted, DS1 is a sensitive child to begin with, but this just broke my heart. I was not prepared to deal with "mean kid" behavior at such a young age!

[citymama]

Mean stuff can start early as the others have said. Unfortunately, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

But..."I don't like you" is not necessarily a mean comment. I used to be taken aback when I heard kids in my DD's preschool say it to each other. They would also say "XYZ is not my friend" - and DD would say it too, even about her friends. The head teacher (who has a Phd in Child Development and has been doing this work for 30+ years) explained to me that kids often use these phrases to mean "I don't want to play with you right now." It is entirely about what the child does or doesn't want *at this moment.* It doesn't indicate that a child is mean or sassy or anything else. They're 3 and they don't know quite yet how to navigate appropriate social behavior.

When viewed from the perspective of child development phases, behaviors or words that we would judge to be "mean" or "bad" coming from say a 10 year old are not intended that way when said by a 3 year old.

It's like this young mom I ran into at the playground telling me how worried she is because her child is selfish and attention seeking. Why? Because her kid doesn't share toys with other children and cries until someone pays attention to her. Her kid's age? 18 months. She's judging her 18 month old's behavior by the yardstick of a 5 year old.

That's not to dismiss your example outright, but I will caution against being in a hurry to judge or name the behavior given the ages of the kids involved.

(ETA: I speak from experience having judged more than one 3 year old to be "mean" because they hurt DD's feelings. DH and I used to be really upset about a 3 yr old in DD's preschool, when DD was also 3, who would comment every day on what DD wore and declare it nice or yucky or ugly. DD would often cry and beg to change her clothes if the other kid declared it yucky or ugly. It drove us nuts and we used to view this child as the playground bully - until we saw that most of the time she was a pretty nice kid and by no means the diva we imagined her to be. She wasn't a bully but she did say things that hurt our DD. But they weren't high schoolers, they were preschoolers, and needed to be viewed through that lens, not those colored by our own experiences of mean kids growing up. I hope this makes some sense!)

[AnnieW625]

In preschool. The ring leader at DD1's preschool had an older brother. 4 yr. olds didn't do _____ because the girl's brother had probably said something that this girl repeated to the other girls because she thought it was true. Every time DD1 repeated something the girl or repeated something out of the blue she heard at school I told her that it wasn't nice to talk about people like that. This year in kindergarten there was a classmate who a few of the girls had a hard time understanding and getting along with because she is very in your face about a lot of things, but once I explained to DD1 that everyone is different and that sometimes kids aren't as nice as others she stopped saying things or what she didn't like about the girl. DD1 didn't even want me inviting her to her birthday, but in the end she came and that really helped DD1 see that the other girl wasn't so bad or mean after all. They even got a bit closer as the school year went on.

[maestramommy]

She wasn't a bully but she did say things that hurt our DD. But they weren't high schoolers, they were preschoolers, and needed to be viewed through that lens, not those colored by our own experiences of mean kids growing up. I hope this makes some sense!)


I think this is true, and thanks to you and budleebaby for pointing it out. For example, the last week Laurel has been saying, "I hate boys." um, what? No idea where that came from. I just say, "Daddy and Shep are boys. Do you hate Daddy and Shep?" What about W and C? Do you hate them? They're boys (our neighbors). How about your cousin N?" Of course the answer is always no. The second time we had this convo, Dora suddenly chirped, "I like boys!" Which may have turned the tide. I have no idea why she says that. probably just to be saying something! She is the earliest to say things like, "I don't like you mommy, go away!" which usually translates as, "I am so mad because you won't let me do what I want!" :p

[theriviera]

DD1 is 3 and we started hearing it a couple of months ago (probably right before she turned 3). It horrified me to hear her say "XX is not my friend". Her "bff" has an older sister (she's 6) and i've heard her say a lot of these things so I think that is where they are getting it from. She's hasn't started preschool yet.

[jellibeans]

For us it started when ds1 went to preschool. Until then, he wasn't around very many kids. But all of his preschool friends had older siblings who I am sure that they learned from. I am expecting ds2 to be one of the verbal leaders when he starts bc he has an older brother. I also think that at that age, kids are experimenting with words and trying them out to see how you react. It is hurtful bc you don't want your child to feel left out or to be the one using mean words. Every night in the bath, ds1 asks me to tell him the "bad words". We go through them all (I don't like u, shut up, leave me alone, etc) and I am hoping that gets those words out of his system!

[hellokitty]

By 3, esp those who have already been exposed to preschools, girls in particular started being VERY verbally mean. I understand that boys can be mean too, but I notice the girls acting more like school aged girls earlier than boys, who seem to be still more about physical stuff and not as much of the verbal meanness.

[TwinFoxes]

Sometimes now I look at my DDs and get wistful because they are completely unselfconscious about everything they do. They only have a few neighborhood friends, or kids they see in well control sports classes. To them everyone is nice and their friend. I know that next year when they start school that will probably change and it makes me sad. :( Not that they'll be picked on, just that that freedom of not knowing that there are kids who aren't always nice is about to disappear forever.

OP, I think you handled the situation well. Maybe give a playdate another try, but one on one and where you can keep an eye on the situation, since you like the mom. Like another poster said, the little girl may not have meant it, she could have just been mimicking something she heard in school or something.

[kijip]

I think kids have the ability to say/do mean things from a very early age, but I don't think it neccessarily means that they are "mean" kids.

Wise words. I think we sometimes ascribe the same sort of ill intent to the actions of tots and preschoolers as we would if the "mean kid" was a young adult.

[citymama]

Wise words. I think we sometimes ascribe the same sort of ill intent to the actions of tots and preschoolers as we would if the "mean kid" was a young adult.

:yeahthat: ITA - my post was a long-winded way of saying that.

[egoldber]

I agree with kijip and citymama. It's hard when we think our kids feelings have been hurt, but it is important to remember that all these kids are really young. They are just learning how to navigate social situations. "I don't like you" can often mean "I don't want to play with you right now, but I don't know how to say that politely".

[TxCat]

No advice, just wanted to say :hug: . I'm dreading going through this with my own DD in a couple of years.

[deborah_r]

They are just learning how to navigate social situations. "I don't like you" can often mean "I don't want to play with you right now, but I don't know how to say that politely".

I'm laughing thinking about my 9 year old, who recently told me something, then said "do you have a problem with that?" I told him he was being rude and he had no idea that was rude. He really just wanted to know if I had a problem with it. :)

[4stheCharm]

I think its social experementation at that age and they need time to explore themselves.

I would like to see how the parent handled it. Some kids are socially more advanced and others have frustrations that are not easily expressed, so they go to something simple, like you are mean.

IMO, I would talk to the mom.

My DD is in 2nd grade, and its a little more of an issue.