Kitchen Reno - help me start!!

[Twoboos]

We are going to gut our kitchen and master bath, likely both at the same time. I'd like it to all start in early/mid-Sept, so decisions and design now.

I NEED to start this. I went to an appliance showroom today and got overwhelmed. Looked at some interesting ones, went to GardenWeb to see their thoughts - TOTALLY overwhelmed!! And now thinking the items I was interested in are a bad idea/investment.

How can I get through this, how can I decide on these things. I get bogged down by too many choices, especially since you can find good/bad reviews or feedback on EVERYTHING!!

I am looking upper-mid-to-high end stuff. Not SubZero, but not generic stuff, kwim?

I thought Thermador was having a great promo, but the brand seems to get trashed on GW...

[stinkyfeet]

Having remodeled most of my old house, I would not recommend doing the kitchen and master bath at the same time.

A lot of things can go wrong that delay the final result. You could easily be without a kitchen for 4-6 weeks. (a section of my kitchen cabinets were measured incorrectly, so I had to wait for the new ones to be made and delivered.)

Things can also easily go overbudget, so play for that when you set money aside (for ex, at my old house, they removed the old tile backsplash only to realize that too much adhesives was placed on the tiles and removed most of the wall.)

It's good that you are looking at appliances now since you will probably find the best prices around major holidays like 7/4.

Take the advice on gardenweb with a grain on salt. They are self-confessed appliance snobs. You have to pick what is best for your lifestyle. For ex, garden web really likes miele and 800 series Bosch dishwashers. The miele was out of my price range, but the Bosch was affordable to us. When I looked at it in the store, I hated it! I hate the way the racks were organized--it is as though you had to spend time organizing all of your dishes neatly in the dishwasher. I prefer to put most of the dishes in neatly,but I have casserole dishes, serving plates, etc that wouldn't fit with their racks. Even though I went in thinking I wanted a coveted bosch, I ended up with the kenmore elite model I had at my old house and am very happy with it.

I do agree with their recommendation of picking the best appliances from each category rather than getting a matching suite for the sake of matching.

Also wanted to add that from reading the GW forums, paying more money for higher end appliances doesn't guarantee you a problem-free appliance. In fact, from what I read, the higher end appliances actually are prone to more problems because of all of the bells and whistles. Make sure you get an extended warranty!

Hth!

[Twoboos]

Having remodeled most of my old house, I would not recommend doing the kitchen and master bath at the same time.



Shoot, really? I thought it would be better to get it all done at once. And have each trade come in the least amt of time (elec, plumber, etc.). Well, not once - the least number of times, lol. The designer we talked to recommended doing them both, as did the people at a cabinet place.

I am fully expecting 6-8 weeks construction. So I'm worried once I finish the kitchen I will not want to live through the bathroom!!

[twowhat?]

Shoot, really? I thought it would be better to get it all done at once. And have each trade come in the least amt of time (elec, plumber, etc.). Well, not once - the least number of times, lol. The designer we talked to recommended doing them both, as did the people at a cabinet place.

I am fully expecting 6-8 weeks construction. So I'm worried once I finish the kitchen I will not want to live through the bathroom!!

We did both at once. I wouldn't hesitate to do it this way so long as you have more than one bathroom with tub or shower in the house to use:)

My biggest piece of advice is to be very specific with the contractor when they write up a bid. What's the price range for tile in the bid? What's the price range for sinks? Granite or quartz? Those kinds of things can quickly blow your budget if you don't know up front - labor in general will be the same regarless of material. A good contractor will remind you of all these things. You don't necessarily need to have all your material/etc picked out - but you need to know the top spending limit so that when, for example, they're ready to put in the backsplash and you go out looking at samples, you'll know what the budget is. But you do need to think ahead on materials in general terms. Do you want glass tile? That's more expensive, etc.

eta: for appliances if you can find a local store that specializes in them, they are often a really useful resource to help you decide. That's what we did, and it was great to know what brands they get calls on often to fix, and the pros and cons of different models - the guys at our store even had opinions on the EDGES of a smoothtop cooktop! It was SO useful.

[elbenn]

I'm not sure what you are wanting for a fridge, but there is a good thread on french door style fridges. Also, there is a thread where BBBers posted pictures of their kitchen.


http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=432546&highlight=french+door+fridge

http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=406160&highlight=post+pictures+kitchen

[niccig]

For appliances also think long and hard about what you will actually use. I am lusting after a range like my mother's - double ovens, warming draw, separate broiler. That's my dream. Reality is, it won't fit in my kitchen and it costs more than some people's cars (special order). I like to cook, but I will never cook as much as my mother (she should open a restaurant).

We can't afford several thousands of dollars on one appliance and it's more important to me to open the space up by removing walls, so the mid-range will more than meet my needs.

It's easy to get sucked into kitchen porn and think you need everything, but really, you don't.

[crl]

I would stick with Gardenweb. Definitely feel free to ignore them. But I have done two kitchen remodels and the advice there was ultimately really helpful even if overwhelming at first. (And btw I did not do high end ANYTHING, my big splurge was an Advantium, otherwise my appliances were mid to low end--cheapest Bosch dishwasher, whirlpool range, etc).

I think the most important first decision is layout. Because that will dictate all your measurements for everything else. Are you keeping the existing layout?

After layout, I would decide on appliances because the size of those will dictate what's left for cabinets.

As far as budget, we got bit by the electricians bill. We needed a new special outlet for the Advantium and once they saw the existing wiring they recommended rewiring the entire kitchen back to the box. We agreed. Ouch.

But that's just me.

(And I love, love, loved my ikea cabinets and our recently remodelled kitchen was frequently complimented when the house went on the market and the couple that bought it, the wife said she wanted our kitchen. And this was a ~$750,000 house. I would do ikea cabinets again in a heartbeat.)

Catherine

[Twoboos]

I'm not sure what you are wanting for a fridge, but there is a good thread on french door style fridges. Also, there is a thread where BBBers posted pictures of their kitchen.


http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=432546&highlight=french+door+fridge

http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=406160&highlight=post+pictures+kitchen

I remember the kitchen pics thread!! Loved it! Now seems like a good time to review. :)

I must have water/ice in the door, so french door is out.

[boolady]

Shoot, really? I thought it would be better to get it all done at once. And have each trade come in the least amt of time (elec, plumber, etc.). Well, not once - the least number of times, lol. The designer we talked to recommended doing them both, as did the people at a cabinet place.

I am fully expecting 6-8 weeks construction. So I'm worried once I finish the kitchen I will not want to live through the bathroom!!

I'm sure it works just fine for people, but when I was in high school, my parents did the kitchen and used one of the bathrooms as a de facto kitchen in a lot of ways-- my mom used an electric skillet and hot plate in there, used one dedicated bathroom sink to wash dishes, and during that time, we didn't use that bathroom as a bathroom at all. Our existing refrigerator was in the dining room, as was the microwave.

I don't know how much food prep you'll want to do during the reno, but it is something to think about. If you've got enough bathrooms that you can more or less set one aside for any kitchen tasks that require water and/or a counter, you might be fine doing both together. My parents couldn't really do that because in our 100-plus year old Victorian, it was the only bathroom that was really large enough to be used like a substitute kitchen for a while. They began the bathroom remodel once the kitchen was at least serviceable.

[twowhat?]

We set up or formal dining room as the "kitchen area" and plugged the microwave, toaster oven, and coffee pot there. We washed dishes in the wet bar sink (haha) and mostly ate take-out. I'd definitely think about stockpiling the freezer with heat-and-eat meals and eating take-out or eating very simple meals.

Oh, and we also had an induction burner (just a single one) and pot, so we could boil stuff if necessary.

And yeah, ITA that I'd only do both together if you have another FULL bath. Our second bath at the time of the remodel had double sinks and a tub/shower so it was fine as our only bath for several weeks. Though - we did this pre-kids. Post kids it would've been WAY WAY harder, I'm sure, though I still think I'd tackle both at the same time (if you have that extra bathroom) just to potentiall shorten the period of time under construction. We did both kitchen and bath and it took 6 weeks - they worked simultaneously on both, and the bath got done first and was usable before the kitchen was done.

[noodle]

I am right. there. with you. We bought a cosmetic fixer, and the kitchen is a total loss.
We're working on layout now.
We haven't had much time to plan together, so we've each made and prioritized wish lists for each room we're doing. This weekend we're planning to compare lists and try to start making some decisions.
I agree, the choices are overwhelming. And every time I think I've chosen something, I realize that there's something else I need to decide first.

[elbenn]

I must have water/ice in the door, so french door is out.

We have a french door fridge that has water/ice in the door. It's like this one:

http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/RFG237AARS.html?mv_pc=fr&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=NA

I like the extra drawer in this one:

http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/RF4267HA.html

[kristenk]

We had our kitchen remodeled last fall and are planning to redo our master bathroom this fall. I can't imagine doing them both at the same time, but that's just b/c they're situated on opposite ends of the house. If we did both at the same time, there would have been no escaping the dust and debris. Plus, doing one room first meant that we could check out the contractor's work. We really like the guy who did it and all of the guys he has working under him. We'll definitely use them for the bathroom.

We ended up going to a local independent appliance showroom and looking at different models one day. We were able to narrow down gas cooktops pretty easily. One model that I was interested in had the horizontal grates at a slightly different (height) level than the grates that ran vertically and that just seemed awkward.

With wall ovens, I think I was really tempted by a higher end brand (don't remember which one right now), but it didn't have some features that I really wanted. I like being able to program the oven to turn on at a certain time or cook for a certain time, so that was the tiebreaker for me when we couldn't really find anything else to use. We ended up with a newer, slightly larger version of the wall oven that we put in shortly after moving into our house. The fan in the old version was very loud and was one of the reasons that I was leaning toward going with a different brand. We checked reviews of the new model, though, and no one mentioned fan noise so we went with it and have been thrilled.

We really did a combination of going to appliance stores and talking to people, looking at gardenweb and searching reviews online.

We ended up going with mostly GE Profile appliances, even though we went in with the opinion that we wanted whichever appliance was best for us, no matter the brand. We originally decided on a Profile wall oven and then wanted to have the microwave from the same company if possible b/c it was built-in right above the wall oven. Then they had a promotion that gave $ back if you bought a certain number of appliances. That pretty much tipped the scale in favor of GE Profile for us. Our refrigerator is Samsung, but the other major appliances are GE Profile.

ETA: I think that our fridge is the one that elbenn linked in her thread above.

[Twoboos]

Thanks for all the feedback. I wish someone could just make me a list of "the best" appliances (which just doesn't exist, according to GW!).

Each time I think I have found something good, I read 57 negative reviews. And then go to someplace like Consumer Reports and find it is highly recommended! :banghead: THIS is what give me anxiety. I don't want to pick the "wrong" multi-thousand dollar items.

[pastrygirl]

I would love to be that person! I love researching this stuff, really. We just bought a new range and thought we'd also need a new microwave. In the meantime, I also researched new fridges, ya know, so they can all match. ;)

We got the GE Cafe dual fuel range and I really love it. If we could do it, I'd also have a wall oven.

[hillview]

We just redid BOTH master bath and kitchen. I made a list of everything I had to pick out with the contractor. He helped me prioritize the items. I took the appliances one by one and looked at garden web and consumer reports and this board for ideas and also went to the appliance store. It was a lot of work but breaking it down into smaller pieces helped me. GOOD LUCK!

[kristenk]

I think you have to go in expecting that you WILL find lots of negative reviews on appliances. If there's a specific model that you're interested in, read through the negative reviews and see if there's one specific thing that people consistently complain about. If there is, determine if that issue is a problem *for you*. When we were looking for appliances, we read some reviews that complained about things that were silly to us. Like complaints about a model lacking a feature, but that should have been apparent before the person purchased the model.

Another way to narrow down appliances is to figure out which features you'd really like to have. If you want a counter-depth fridge, that eliminates a lot of models right away. Think about your current appliances and what you like and what you don't like. Remember that some features you might take for granted b/c they're on your current model, but just b/c they're on the model you have doesn't mean that they're standard on ALL models.

It really is overwhelming, especially b/c the best appliance for you isn't necessarily the best appliance for me.

Go to the appliance showroom and look at appliances. Use whatever you can, even if it seems sort of silly, to narrow down the models. If you don't like button placement on a specific dishwasher, go ahead and take it out of the running. When you end up with just a few specific models left in contention, go home and look up reviews online. See what people say and see if they make you think of any issues that you hadn't thought of.

Picking appliances is a pain, but the end result is wonderful!

[zukeypur]

We are looking at the previously mentioned Samsung fridge with the flex drawer, currently on sale at sears with your sears card for $2069 for the 28 ft model, the cheapest I have ever seen it. I think we're jumping on the fridge this weekend, but are still deciding on which dishwasher to get. I read online that the best time to get all of the other appliances is September or October, so we not in a huge hurry on the others. Also, we are considering a small remodel to get double wall ovens instead of our free standing range. We have a friend who is a cabinet maker, so I'm planning on getting a bid from him for that.

As far as a dishwasher, we want something stainless steel, QUIET, and with racks to accommodate large cookie sheets on the bottom and water bottles (intak) on the top rack.

[brittone2]

We are not remodeling yet, but I have used gardenweb for appliance ideas through the years. We had a Bosch in our first house and really liked it, but there is mixed feedback on the lower end ones now (although GW peeps are quite picky and like their high end ). When we bought ours back in 03 or so, the "low end" Bosch was still made in Germany, all stainless tub, etc. We were very happy with it.

I went back to the same place we bought that one from, expecting to buy a 500 or 800 series Bosch for our current house to replace the 20+ yo Jenn Air. We considered Miele but thought it was a little too pricey. WHen I got to the showroom, my local place had the low end Miele for not much more than the Bosch, so I went with that, having read all the reviews and knowing both Bosch and Miele are great. I didn't ask for a discount but somehow it ended up being even less than I expected. I think it was 1060 or so (was marked at 1300 IIRC), and then 150 for installation. We haven't had it long but I really like it. I did like my old Bosch years ago too. I think both are great.

Our other appliances are pretty ancient-20+ year old dacor range and cooktop, but they are still ticking (knock on wood) and I'm not ready to plan a full remodel. The fridge may be the next thing we replace and I'm not sure what we want yet.

[WatchingThemGrow]

I recently designed and purchased a kitchen - that I was able to return when the house we were buying didn't work out :(. One of the first things I did was to stand in the space and think about what I want to be doing in the kitchen. Some of the things I wanted to do were:
-sit on a stool and talk to DH while he's washing dishes (:jammin:)
-be able to SEE a meal plan on the wall while I'm doing something mindless
- have room for several people to be prepping meals, lunchboxes, cleaning up dishes, and hanging out.
-be able to store all our foods sensibly (i.e. a baking area, a breakfast area, a dinner/boxed/canned/accessory area, a snack area) in a pull out pantry, etc.
-for DH to be able to serve breakfast to 3 DC and have the space close enough to clean it up easily (island w/3-4 stools was going to work perfectly for this)

I asked a group of moms of 3-4 kids what the favorite things about their kitchens were, and they all said having a microwave placed where their kids could use it. Knowing that, I planned to put my favorite appliance ever- the advantium oven - at a decent height on a wall, NOT over the cooktop/range. A friend caught her shorts on fire once when she was a kid and was climbing up to use the over-the-range microwave. eek!

So...that's where I started. Unfortunately, the builder of the house had planned a corner sink that looked at an intersection, totally family-unfriendly, and a pantry over 10' from the edge of the countertops. It was a mess and not good. IKEA allowed me to return the whole kitchen before it ever got delivered. I was sad b/c it was going to be a great kitchen design and fun materials - like toe-kick drawers and hacked trash/recycling drawers, etc.

Good luck!