Do I need to be concerned? Abuse mentioned

[MamaSnoo]

I just need a little perspective on this. DD went to visit her GPs. While there, she told my mom that she and her little BFF (plays with every day almost/children visit in each other's homes) have a "secret dance" which her friend taught her. They are "not supposed to tell grown-ups" about the dance, but my DD told my mom all about it anyway. She said there are 2 dances, the "b^tt dance" and the "belly dance." My mom asked her to show her how to do the dances (because GM loves dances...you know), and DD said to do them, you have to pull down your pants and undies and then wiggle your b^tt or wiggle your belly and belly bump with your friend. My mom asked her if a grown-up ever saw her do the dances or took her picture; DD said no. My mom dropped the conversation with DD at that point, and called me privately to tell me about it.

My mom is really concerned that DDs friend might be abused based on this conversation with my DD. If this were the case, it would be a major concern both for that child (obviously) and for DD as they play together and DD goes to their home.

DD is 4 and her friend is 5. They are very interested in all things potty talk and make up lots of silly songs about things like b^tts and poop. I try to not make too big a deal of that because I think it just encourages that kind of behavior. DD and her friend are also really interested in having secrets and playing at telling secrets.

To me, what my mom decribed might be in the range of normal behavior for this age. The parts that concerned me and DH were that DD said you have to pull down pants and undies to do these dances. And that DD said the dance was secret. But, as above, all this is consistent with their goofy play (and DD did not keep the "secret").

I am planning to talk to the friend's mom, but I wanted to get some perspective from you guys about whether this sounds more like normal play for 4-5 year olds or if it is more worrisome to you.

Please don't quote. I do not plan to delete the entire post, but may delete some details later.

[gatorsmom]

It sounds pretty normal to me, even the bit about showing butts. It's totally something Cha Cha or Greenbean would think up. HOWEVER, I would be really concerned that the other child is being groomed for abuse by an adult and she was showing your DD something she experienced at the hands of an adult.

I'd definitely discuss this with the child's mother as a first step. Not sure what I'd do next though.

[123LuckyMom]

I hesitate to answer, because who would want to dismiss behavior that might be related to abuse, but it sounds pretty normal to me. The belly dance is no big deal. I would tell DD to do the butt dance with undies on so the undies characters can do high fives (or something). I would stay vigilant but not rush to action on the basis of these dances or the fact that it was secret. Do others think I'm under reacting?

[infocrazy]

First, I just want to say your mom handled it REALLY well! I don't think my mom or my MIL would do the same.

Second, I think it totally could be normal. My boys have totally done the butt dance/butt bump when they are changing clothes and they think it is HYSTERICAL. I roll my eyes and tell them to stop it, so I can see how it could happen.

That said, I would probably talk to the mom because I agree, the telling secrets and the not telling grownups would concern me, and if I were her, I'd want to know. I would probably also have more playdates at my/GM house so I could watch closer.

[gatorsmom]

Do others think I'm under reacting?

I dont' think you are underreacting, but I would look into it further before letting it go. And I'd definitely discuss the secret-keeping bit with my child.

[kdeunc]

If it were me I would try to speak with the child myself. You can talk about the dance ask how she learned it let her know that in your house people don't keep secrets and that kids should never keep secrets from grown ups even if another adult is the one to tell them to keep the secret. After that conversation I would go to the mom. The conversation with the child should be low key non judgemental. I would use it as a opportunity to talk with both girls about their private parts and keeping those covered. The "secret" part is more of a red flag than just the butt dance to me. I work as an educator for a clinic that's serves sexually abused children and the above advice is what I would give if a participant in one of my trainings presented me with your scenario.

[hillview]

If it were me I would try to speak with the child myself. You can talk about the dance ask how she learned it let her know that in your house people don't keep secrets and that kids should never keep secrets from grown ups even if another adult is the one to tell them to keep the secret. After that conversation I would go to the mom. The conversation with the child should be low key non judgemental. I would use it as a opportunity to talk with both girls about their private parts and keeping those covered. The "secret" part is more of a red flag than just the butt dance to me. I work as an educator for a clinic that's serves sexually abused children and the above advice is what I would give if a participant in one of my trainings presented me with your scenario.

Thanks for posting -- this was informative. I think this is a great response. I would also be very reluctant to let DD play alone at their house.