*UPDATE in OP* Disappointing camp experience - how to handle?

[Green_Tea]

UPDATE: So I talked to the woman who is the head of all the troops in my area (not sure of her exact title, but she also happens to be DD1's troop leader) and she was LIVID when I told her about our experience. She is compiling a list of people I need to CC on the letter to the camp director. She suggested that I CC her (the troop leader) so that she can make a big fuss about how this will impact her ability to recommend GS camp in the future. It made me feel much better that this woman, who is well respected in the GSs and has been involved for at least 15 years, was so upset on my behalf.

It also made me feel better that all of you found the situation as upsetting as I did. Thank you, really.

DDs are snug in their own beds tonight. I was so happy to kiss them goodnight. They both reiterated their desire to never go to camp again. I told them that it wasn't something they needed to worry about right now, and that maybe in a few months we could find out about camps that have different policies and they could see what they thought. My niece (who is DD1's age) is headed to a different camp on Saturday, so I am hoping that she has an awesome experience and talks it up to the girls, just so they see that camp doesn't have to be miserable. I feel really terrible that they were so unhappy and helpless to do anything about it.

I will post the letter I write here when I finish it (and when I have time to answer responses :)) I am so tired from this, I need to go to bed!

__________________________________________________ ________________


I posted last week about my girls (ages almost 8 and 9.5) going off to a 3 day "try it" overnight Girl Scout camp. I was concerned that they'd be too nervous to go, but they actually ended up being completely fine about it (yay!)

The camp experience itself was quite a disappointment, though. I knew the minute I saw the girls that they had not had a good time. I am surprised because my girls are the kind of kids who are pretty easygoing and make the best of situations. Some of the things that were troubling:

The check-in process: even though I had sent in all their forms as I had been instructed, there were tons of forms I had to fill out on arrival (x2). The entire check in process took place in the mess hall. It was crowded (at least 200 people), chaotic and hot. It took more than 90 minutes to get both girls checked in, and by that time I could see that all the wind had gone out of their sails. Several kids were crying. It was a clusterf&*#.

We were not greeted by any counselors when we arrived at their cabins.

When I picked them up the first things they said to me were, "I don't think camp is my thing" and "Please don't make me go to camp next year." Things they didn't like:

The counselors did not sleep in the cabins with them, so if the cabins got out of hand at night (and they did) there was nobody to restore order. I got the impression that each cabin didn't have a dedicated counselor, but rather a group of counselors was assigned to the whole unit.

The girls were expected to do chores - which I think is completely reasonable. However, it sounds as though the chores took up a LOT of time each day. I remember doing chores at camp, and it was no big deal. We swept our cabins, cleaned up after dinner, etc. It was more of a way to teach respect and responsibility for the campsite rather than expecting the campers to serve as a cleaning crew, though.

The 3 day camp promised a horseback ride. The girls said they were told by the counselors that there would be no horseback rides in their unit. The girls (and by that I mean ALL the girls, not just mine) protested - it was supposed to be the highlight of their time there and the reason the camp session was called "Pony Express." The counselors ended up squeezing it in. I don't understand why they even had to ASK, though.

The promo materials promised campfires and smores, which my kids were excited about. They had one campfire (during the day - none at night) and no smores.

The bathrooms ran out of toilet paper. DD2 told a counselor who replied, "Oh well!"

DD1's group apparently had some trouble following the protocol for lining up before an activity. Kids forgot their assigned numbers. They didn't hear the number before theirs being called. As a result they lost their one opportunity to try archery AND were made to scrub the toilets as a chore during archery time.

DD2 misplaced her water bottle on the first day, and didn't locate it until the last day. The counselors made no effort to help her find it (OK, fine, her responsibility) but also didn't make any effort to make sure she had water to drink throughout the day, and it was in the 90s.

As the girls were packing up (they were given 10 minutes - these are SEVEN and EIGHT year olds), the counselors refused to help them get their stuff from the cabins to the trailer that brought their gear to the parking lot. When my DD2 said she'd help another camper carry something, a counselor's response was, "She can't help you. Everyone carries their own stuff." DD said the other girl promptly burst into tears. Can't say I blame her.

I get it that camp has routines and rules and chores. I really do. But they were there for 72 hours, and left feeling like camp was ALL about rules and consequences and chores. Judging by the faces of their fellow campers, they were not in the minority. DD2 has a friend she attended with and when I asked if she had fun her response was "NOPE!"

I LOVED camp as a kid and so did my sisters (we attended different camps, so had diverse experiences). Our counselors were warm and funny and we ADORED THEM even when they yelled at us. They slept with us in our cabins and were like big sisters. We did chores, but they were quick and no big deal. We rarely got in trouble or lost privileges, and never in the first 48 hours.

I feel like the Girl Scouts REALLY failed to make this a positive first camp experience. They were there for fewer than 72 hours. They barely had TIME to learn the routines. And I am beyond angry that my 9 year old had to scrub toilets as a result - she wasn't even one of the kids who wasn't doing what they were supposed to.

I want to express my disappointment, but I need to figure out how. I am not going to complain about the food (which was terrible) or the lake (which was murky and gross) but I can't let the toilet scrubbing or the fact that they neglected to do many of the activities promised go unmentioned. I feel like if MY kids didn't like it, probably most kids didn't. They weren't homesick, and they made friends, but they didn't have FUN. Isn't that what camp is all about?

[pinkmomagain]

I think I'd be flipping out with that experience. Seriously. I would call the camp director about it because I really would want to hear what he/she has to say about it and have a conversation. After that, I would likely send a letter to the highest level person responsible in some way for that camp, documenting the horrible experience.

Sorry your girls had a bad experience. I hope they'll have another opportunity to try a good camp experience in the future.

[boolady]

I really, really disliked GS camp as a kid, but then had a really positive experience for many years thereafter at a YMCA camp. I did not have the many reasons, IMHO, for disliking GS camp that your girls do. I think their complaints are completely valid. I experienced chores at camp, but nothing like your girls describe. Also, I never, ever went to camp (including up to being a freshman in high school) where a counselor did not sleep in each cabin. Yes, sometimes the counselors, when I was in the "sr. girl" area (summer after grade 8 and above) only, would hang out a bit outside the cabins and chat before coming into bed, but every cabin had an assigned counselor. If they promise things in their promotional materials, i.e., horseback riding (which is a huge thing to leave out), smores, etc., they've got to follow through. That's just terrible business practice, in my book.

I just never had near as much fun at GS camp...things were always a bit more spartan, not that Y camp was luxurious, but activities weren't quite as plentiful and creative, and I never felt like the counselors were as much fun, either, to the point that I was not sure I wanted to try Y camp when my parents suggested it. I was willing to give it a try because we went out to an open house at a Y camp in our area where the director and several of the counselors were there, took us on tours, told us about the daily schedule, and we just got a good feel for the way things would be run and the people running it. Maybe if you have the opportunity to visit another camp or camps' open house/s with your girls, there will be a place they get a good feeling about. I'm sorry they had a bad experience...I loved camp as a kid, and hope that DD will one day, too.

[Green_Tea]

I hope they'll have another opportunity to try a good camp experience in the future.

I hope so, too - but I am pretty sure it will take huge bribes to get them to even TRY another camp.

[arivecchi]

I just want to say that I am so sorry! Can you write a review online after giving them your feedback? I would want to warn other parents about this horrid experience.

I hope your girls get to have a better experience next time. Maybe wait a year or two before trying out another camp? Saying this as someone who has not BTDT though, so feel free to ignore!

[misshollygolightly]

Wow. That sounds horrible. No wonder your girls were disappointed! I'm really shocked, as it sounds like this was supposed to be a fun, easy introduction to camping (presumably aimed at encouraging girls to return for the full experience next year). This just sounds miserable. At the very, very least, I'm terribly surprised that there was no adult supervision in the cabins overnight! How does that not violate their own policies and/or put them in a risky position in terms of liability?!? I've never heard of a camp without overnight adult supervision in the cabins. Also, it really seems like the counselor telling the girl she couldn't help her friend carry her stuff would be contradictory to the whole Girl Scout ethos. I'd be less upset about the cleaning/chores/toilet scrubbing, but the fact that the camp did not really deliver the basic perks and experiences it promised (bonfires, smores, pony rides, etc.) would make me want my money back. On top of everything else, it sounds like this particular camp is very poorly run and organized (insufficient overnight supervision, lack of attention to health and hydration, disorganized check-in, little or no support for the campers from counselors, etc.). Write out your complaints and email them directly to the highest authority there...and I'd be very tempted to ask for a refund or at least lay out what I would want them to do to help make this right from a consumer satisfaction standpoint.

ETA: I would also make a fuss about the lack of toilet paper! It's not ok for a kids' camp to fail to provide adequate TP! Especially for girls! I would have been traumatized, as a kid! And who knows...some of their campers may even be dealing with periods and/or upset tummies (due to the bad food and stressful situation)...how can you not provide TP, unless you require campers to bring their own?!?! Basic necessities (overnight supervision, toilet paper in bathrooms, etc.)...these should just go without saying, let alone someplace ostensibly designed to encourage campers to return next year!

[ahisma]

My DD went to girl scout camp for years and NEVER had an experience like that. That is horrible. I would definitely seek resolution.

[Green_Tea]

My DD went to girl scout camp for years and NEVER had an experience like that. That is horrible. I would definitely seek resolution.


Which camp did she attend, ahisma? (you can PM me if you don't want to share publicly!)

[nfowife]

That sounds horrible! I attended sleepaway camps as a child (not GS camps) and a counselor and never had that type of experience.
The biggest and worst offense to me, is not having adult supervision IN the cabins overnight. That is just a horrible oversight on their part. What if something happened to a camper and help was needed? They would rely on 7 and 8 year olds to get the help? Not acceptable and definitely not even legal in my opinion. Does not follow ACA and likely not even GS policies.
I would absolutely follow up and go higher and higher until someone has the type of response you are looking for. I mean the type of response that you are having as the parent.
I, too, hope your girls have a better experience next year, if you can get them to try again. Sleepaway camp was a great experience of my life and my DH's too. We can't wait for our kids to be able to try it.

[Green_Tea]

I, too, hope your girls have a better experience next year, if you can get them to try again. Sleepaway camp was a great experience of my life and my DH's too. We can't wait for our kids to be able to try it.

That's exactly how I feel! Camp was the very best part of my childhood - it was magical. I am so, so sad that this was my girls' first camp experience. I've been holding back tears since I picked them up. I feel like I totally let them down by sending them, and like it will be hard to convince them to ever try again.

:crying:

[buddyleebaby]

I went to Girl Scout camp and loved it.
Their stay sounds miserable.

I will say that we did not have counselors in the tents with us. We were split four girls to a tent (you could choose a buddy ahead of time). Counselors had their own tent.

[gatorsmom]

Wow, I would be furious. I'd send this post, or something very similar, to the person in charge. The sad thing is that this horrible camp experience may have turned off other better camp experiences for your daughters!

Who expects their children to scrub toilets when they send them away to for a fun outing? And what counselor in her right mind would tell one girl not to help another girl who needed a hand with her luggage? Isn't that what the spirit of Girl Scouts is, after all? This doesn't sound like Girl Scouts camp it sounds like military boot camp!

[maestramommy]

Holy moley. Sound horrible. I'm not sure what I would do. Write a letter to the troop leader? Camp director? :hug::hug: I would be so upset.

[AnnieW625]

You had no idea it was going to be like that either so don't feel bad. I would be furious as well. I would be calling the camp director and writing a letter to the GS of America and whoever their local camp coordinator is.

Good luck:grouphug:

[ellies mom]

Wow, that's crazy. I'm not sure that disappointing is a strong enough word. I was a camp counselor too and I'm pretty floored by what you wrote. I would definitely discuss this with someone.

That said. As far as the girls never wanting to go to camp again, is there a near by camp with a day camp option? I went to and worked at a 4-H camp. We had a day camp option where the kids spent the day and I think they could attend one evening activity. Then your kids could test out the waters and see if the day time stuff is fun enough to entice them to giving the overnight part a try.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alexsmommy]

That is unbelievable. I would be complaining LOUDLY and publically. Like on fb.

DS1 just had his first overnight camp experience and he was crying later on the day we picked him up - because he missed camp!

I can honestly say point by point I feel like he had an opposite experience. Check in was a breeze. Counselors met us at our car, we handed them our forms, they checked them off to make sure we had them all. I was missing one (my fault) and the counselor immediately grabbed blank one and handed it to me with a clipboard and pen. My husband was chatting with her while I filled it out and he asked what happened if you forgot all of your forms. She laughed, said it happpened all of the time and pointed to a pull off area where they would send you. It took less than 5 minutes to get our cabin assignment and a map.

In the lot of the cabin, more counselors directing where to go, welcoming the kids, talking up how they couldn't wait to start having fun. In the cabin he met his counselors and the counselors beds were already set up - who leaves kids to sleep by themselves??? I couldn't believe that as I read it.

Evening activities every night (he was there six nights) including fire pit and s'mores. They indicated that if they had a rainy night they went to the main lodge and had games and treats there. I could go on and on, but the point is - what happened to your girls was utterly unacceptable and I would protest loudly. There is no way most overnight camps are like that or they would be out of business. It sounds like they are riding on the GS name. I reassured myself that DS1 would be fine because repeat business and word of mouth were their bread and butter and they were invested in giving the kids such a great time there was no room for homesickness. In our case, this proved true.

Wow. It's rare that a post has me stunned like this one. I am so. so. so. sorry that it was that bad.

I do think that they will have time to have a do-over and fall in love with camp. My DS's camp offers a family camp weekend camp session. Maybe you could find somewhere with a similar program to reintroduce your girls to what camp SHOULD be next summer.

ETA My comment about counselors sleeping with the kids was based on them being cabins. In tents, you can hear if the kids aren't settling down or if someone shouts for help. In a cabin, I would want at least one adult sleeping there with my child.

[JElaineB]

Sounds like a really bad experience, I'm sorry your girls had such a miserable time. You have every right to be livid. I would write a letter to the camp director and copy anyone and everyone who might have a vested interest in the Girl Scout brand being associated with this camp, including the regional council and GSA.

[georgiegirl]

That sounds like a wretched experience. It reminds me of the book/movie Holes. Making the girls scrub toilets?!? WTF? You paid money for them to go to this camp, right? I would complain very loudly and demand a partial refund. If you don't get it (or a sincere apology) I would bash this camp loudly everywhere.

I went to girl scout camp for a week (or weekend...I can't remember). I didn't like it, but that was because the food was gross and the bunks were really uncomfortable. But that's within the range of normal...whereas what you experienced wasn't. I did go to other sleep away camp that was fun.

[Green_Tea]

Who expects their children to scrub toilets when they send them away to for a fun outing? And what counselor in her right mind would tell one girl not to help another girl who needed a hand with her luggage? Isn't that what the spirit of Girl Scouts is, after all? This doesn't sound like Girl Scouts camp it sounds like military boot camp!

Exactly. They were there for 72 hours, and it was an intro to sleep away camp. I am APPALLED that she had to scrub toilets.


I would be calling the camp director and writing a letter to the GS of America and whoever their local camp coordinator is.


I don't think I can call, because I don't think I can control my anger over the phone. I will be writing a letter.




That said. As far as the girls never wanting to go to camp again, is there a near by camp with a day camp option?

They've done lots of day camps, but I am not sure of there's one nearby with an overnight option. I'll have to explore that.


That is unbelievable. I would be complaining LOUDLY and publically. Like on fb.

DS1 just had his first overnight camp experience and he was crying later on the day we picked him up - because he missed camp!



I am ready to take out a full page ad in a local newspaper slamming them. You can be sure that FB will hear about it.

I was like your son - I cried for days after camp ended!!

[ellies mom]

They've done lots of day camps, but I am not sure of there's one nearby with an overnight option. I'll have to explore that.

The reason I suggested an overnight camp with a day camp option was because with any luck they would have so much fun that having to leave in the afternoon, knowing that the other kids were staying and having more fun would encourage them to give overnight camp another try.

At the camp I worked at, it was pretty common for the local kids to do the day camp option for a few weeks and then spend one week doing the overnight part, or they would do the day camp stuff if they were younger and then start going to the overnight camp when they got older.

I would probably try and sign my girls up for one week of day camp followed by a week of overnight camp with the option of changing the overnight camp to day camp if they are not convinced.

[sophiesmom03]

I would send this post, with details (location, your name, etc.) to the GSA administrative offices as well as the regional directors for your area. This is NOT the way that they GS will make new, sustaining, lifelong members.

I am so sorry your girls' experience turned out that way, and don't blame you a bit for being upset.

[ahisma]

Which camp did she attend, ahisma? (you can PM me if you don't want to share publicly!)

DD went to Camp Anna Behrens in Michigan. I was her troop leader so I know quite a few girls who went there, some of whom were more apprehensive than others. All had a great experience and all wound up going back several times. In fact, DD was just asking me last week if she could do one of the teen camps next summer.

They were always very welcoming and she has great memories of camp. I'm sorry that your girls had such an awful experience, that's really horrible. It sounds like that camp has a long list of things to work on. I'm shocked that they thought that stuff was okay.

[cuca_]

That sounds awful!! When I went to camp we did have to clean the bathroom in our cabin, but it was just part of the housekeeping duties we had. I think it is totally inappropriate to have the campers scrub toilets for not lining up or behaving. I also think it is ridiculous to have 7 and 8 year old campers in a cabin without counselors. I was older than your DDs (I think 11) when I went to camp, and we were without counselors for a few days (they were on a sailing trip), and it was mayhem. It was also a bit scary, because it was a very wooded area. I would have freaked had I been 7 or 8.

I agree with Gina that you should phone the camp director. I think you should also complain in writing. I hope your DDs get over this bad experience and are willing to try sleep away camp again.

[anonomom]

I can't even fathom expecting a group of 7 or 8 year olds to spend the night in a cabin with no supervision. That's crazy!

I'm sorry your kids had such a bad experience, and I hope they'll eventually consider trying camp again.

[MamaMolly]

Oh my gosh! That sounds like some sort of punitive Outward Bound type camp for wayward children, not a fun, warm and fuzzy experience I would imagine at a GS camp. Honestly, I would be livid if I paid good money for my kids to be treated in such a scummy way.

Please update, I hope the higher-ups take your concerns seriously!

[essnce629]

Wow, I've never been to sleep away camp but that sounds horrible!!!!! I'd copy your post into a letter and send it to as many people in charge as you can. Poor girls. What an awful first time experience.

And I'd agree with another PP to find a day camp that maybe has a sleep away option or just a weekend overnight option. DS1 has been going to sports camp for the past 3 summers and they have an optional weekend 2 night camping trip down to San Diego for all the kids going into 4th grade and above. They camp in tents, go to a baseball game, go to Sea World, swim, go to the water park, and have campfires and cookouts. I'm not sure if DS1 is going this year, but it sounds like a great first time experience. It's $175 extra.

[ha98ed14]

That's exactly how I feel! Camp was the very best part of my childhood - it was magical. I am so, so sad that this was my girls' first camp experience. I've been holding back tears since I picked them up. I feel like I totally let them down by sending them, and like it will be hard to convince them to ever try again.

:crying:

Agreeing with everyone else, that is horrible. Not sure where you live, but I went to camp through the American Youth Foundation. They have two camps: one in Michigan called Miniwanca, and one in New Hampshire called Merrovista. Both are awesome, but Miniwanca Girls' Camp was pure magic for me the 5 years I went there for 5 weeks at a time. (Yes, really!)

Another childhood girlfriend went to Camp Onaway also in New Hampshire for 7 years in a row. It's also a girls' camp. She loved it. Don't be discouraged. There are good camp experiences out there.

[Green_Tea]

Bumping for small update in OP.

[crl]

Good for you for following up. I would definitely write that letter. I a sorry your girls had such a horrible first camp experience.

Catherine

[Globetrotter]

I am astounded by this, truly. Usually GS camps are very organized, IME.

They do tend to be bare bones and strict about chores, but not in a punitive way, and they are supposed to carry their own stuff (but it's fine to help each other!). I'm glad you wrote the letter.

Where were the adult directors?

[KpbS]

So, so sorry to hear their "camp" experience was so super lame! Awful! Like you, camp was definitely one of the highlights of my childhood--I cried and cried when it was over (month long camp). Good for you for calling attention to this sad excuse of camp. There are lots of really wonderful camps out there! I hope your DN can convince your DDs of this. :hug:

[DualvansMommy]

I'm so. so. so. sorry to hear of your appalling experience for your kids! I agree with pp's that this experience could potentially ruin your daughter's desire to camp ever.again!

I had the best memories as a child with camps; day and away camps. The not assigning counselor to the cabin sound weird....understandable if the campers were early teens...but your daughter's ages?? no no. especially their first night!

and scrubbing toilets??? wth? like you, I recall doing chores but nowhere near like that and never remember it taking huge part of our time. More like 15-20 mins max each day.

again, so sorry. i really feel for kids who have had terrible camp experiences cuz i think it's one of most important things a parent can do; send their DC to away camp. :22:

[AngB]

Are your daughters SURE there was no counselor in the cabin with them? The school district I grew up in does an overnight weeklong 5th grade camp with boy cabins and girl cabins and each cabin had a back room where the teacher slept but she wasn't *right there* in the bunks with the kids. I am just wondering if there could have been a counselor somewhere nearby that your daughters didn't realize.

Because if not, I think I would be seriously contemplating a complaint to your department of children's/family services, for leaving a cabin full of 7 or 8 year olds, alone overnight. At the very least, it's borderline child neglect.

I've worked in daycare and there are fairly strict rules with most states about ratios for how many adults/caregivers to each child for different age groups, and even during naptime there are certain regulations. I find it hard to believe they'd be okay with a camp being charged with caring for 7 and 8 year olds being left in cabins completely unsupervised overnight. I can understand if you don't want to take it to that level, but I think it very well is another option you have, especially if the GS do not respond appropriately.

[Green_Tea]

Are your daughters SURE there was no counselor in the cabin with them? The school district I grew up in does an overnight weeklong 5th grade camp with boy cabins and girl cabins and each cabin had a back room where the teacher slept but she wasn't *right there* in the bunks with the kids. I am just wondering if there could have been a counselor somewhere nearby that your daughters didn't realize.



The counselors sleep in a separate cabin within the unit. I was there to help the girls unpack and set up, and saw the cabins. They definitely don't sleep with the girls.

I checked the ACA website and the camp is accredited by them - and the fact that the counselors don't sleep with them is mentioned on the site.

[egoldber]

I'm sorry your DDs did not have a good experience. :( Your camp and their group sounds like it was not run by experienced counselors and that is too bad.

FWIW, my older DD had been to GS camp for 3 years (2 different camps) and had a fabulous experience each time. I found the check in to be fast and efficient all 3 times.

At DD's camp they did not actually allow parents into the cabins. You dropped off at the front and the girls and the camp moved the bags to the tents/cabins.

I don't know how much experience your girls have with GS camps in general, but cleaning the bathrooms is considered one of a set of chores that rotate among the girls/cabins. I think one of the problems with the new shorter camp options (and I have heard this from several people) is while they sound like a good idea, they often are very rushed and the girls don't always get an opportunity to fully experience the camp. Sometimes things need to be re-scheduled (for various reasons) and the half week camps don't allow for those types of re-schedules to happen. It also doesn't allow for the kids to really settle into a routine.

I think it is standard for the counselors to not sleep in the cabins. Generally there is a group of tents/cabins that are close to each other and the counselors are in one while the girls are in the others. But they are so close that the counselors can easily hear into the other cabins. If the girls were being rowdy and not getting called out by the counselors than the counselors were obviously not paying attention or were perhaps inexperienced and did not know what to do.


They had one campfire (during the day - none at night) and no smores.

I'm not sure where you are, but I know in many camps they have camp fire restrictions this year due to the incredible heat and dry weather we have had.

[TwoBees]

Just seeing this now. I am absolutely appalled and flabergasted at what your girls went through. Ugh, what a nighmare.

[Corie]

My daughter just got back from a week-long overnight camp
with Girl Scouts. She had a great time!

At her camp, the girls slept 4 girls to a platform tent. The counselors
were not in the tents with the girls. The 4 counselors had their own tent.

Also, the girls did have "latrine duty" and they clean the bathrooms.
It is just part of the daily housekeeping jobs that they do.

Heck, I had to do "latrine duty" when I did a Girl Scout overnight training
session!

[Globetrotter]

Like Beth said, we also don't do actual fires due to concerns about fire safety, or at most a tiny one, but then they shouldn't have advertised the smores, and the chaperones sleep nearby but they do have to supervise. As for toilet scrubbing, they do have to take turns but it should not be used as a punishment!

We recently had a bad experience at a large one day GS event. They were in over their head and planning was not adequate.

[MontrealMum]

I'm late to this but I just wanted to add my voice in saying that I think it's great that you complained.

I went to GS camp as a kid - actually, the same one that Ahisma's DD went to - and I hated it. It was very tough love and focused on learning lessons. I supposed you could describe it as "making a man out of you" except we were, obviously, girls.

My flashlight battery burned out the 1st night and someone stole the $5 my parents had given me for the canteen so I was w/o a flashlight for 2 weeks. I complained and noone cared. I asked to call home (to ask for money or a new battery) and was told that that was forbidden. Mind you, that was many years ago. Although I think that GS camp is supposed to be significantly rougher and more spartan than other camps, I also think that the administration has a huge impact on how this actually plays out. Sure you're expected to work, but there's work and then there's punishment. We also did not have counselors in cabins. Girls were 2 or 4 to a tent, the counselors had their own tent.

I told my parents I never wanted to go back to camp again when they picked me up...10 lbs thinner back when I was skin and bones to begin with. The following two summers I went to a church camp instead and had a much better time.

[missym]

I'm late to this but I just wanted to add my voice in saying that I think it's great that you complained.

I went to GS camp as a kid - actually, the same one that Ahisma's DD went to - and I hated it. It was very tough love and focused on learning lessons. I supposed you could describe it as "making a man out of you" except we were, obviously, girls.

My flashlight battery burned out the 1st night and someone stole the $5 my parents had given me for the canteen so I was w/o a flashlight for 2 weeks. I complained and noone cared. I asked to call home (to ask for money or a new battery) and was told that that was forbidden. Mind you, that was many years ago. Although I think that GS camp is supposed to be significantly rougher and more spartan than other camps, I also think that the administration has a huge impact on how this actually plays out. Sure you're expected to work, but there's work and then there's punishment. We also did not have counselors in cabins. Girls were 2 or 4 to a tent, the counselors had their own tent.

I told my parents I never wanted to go back to camp again when they picked me up...10 lbs thinner back when I was skin and bones to begin with. The following two summers I went to a church camp instead and had a much better time.

That is terrible and is NOT in line with the GS philosophy - though I will say that girls being in their own tent is typical. Here's the usual scenario for how that plays out in a good camp situation...

Tent 3: giggle whisper whisper giggle
Counselor tent: Girls, it's time to be quiet now.
Tent 3: quiet for 10 seconds, then giggle whisper whisper giggle
Counselor tent: Ladies, six thirty comes pretty early, let's be quiet please.
Tent 3: whisper whisper, wild giggling.
Counselors tent: collective sigh
Counselor walks over to tent and negotiates one song for quiet afterward. Usually by the time the song is over, the girls are asleep. ;)

[Momit]

OP, so sorry the camp situation was so awful for your girls and glad the local leadership is taking your complaint so seriously.

Camp can be a wonderful and transformative experience for kids - but there needs to be enough fun to balance out KP duty, latrine duty etc.

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OP, I'm glad you're writing a letter, though it sounds like these problems are nothing new for this camp. That is too bad, since GS camp can be a wonderful experience. If they were in platform tents, the counselors being separate is pretty typical since they can still hear pretty clearly everything that's going on - even whispering. ;) I don't have experience at a GS camp with cabins, but at one non-GS camp, we were in-cabin with the kids.

Chores are to teach responsibility and to keep the camp functioning and tidy - they are not punishment. The exception would be if the girls intentionally made a mess - like having a food fight - they certainly would get extra cleanup duty in the dining hall that day! But that's more along the lines of logical consequences to me, not "you forgot to make your bed so go scrub this toilet with a toothbrush."