What determines the "good" teacher?

[elizabethkott]

I was at the park with a friend yesterday, and we were discussing our kids' kindy teachers (they're in different classes). My friend recognized a woman from her child's gymnastic classes, and asked if her daughter was going into kindy in our school. The woman replied yes, and then asked what teachers our kids got. Her child is in the same class as my friend's child. She then responded, with great enthusiasm, "We've got the good teacher!!!!" and then turned to me and said, "I mean, they're ALL good, I suppose."
WTH?!
So I guess I'm curious (as a parent first, and as a teacher second!), what qualifies that "good" teacher determination? Is it based entirely on what other parents say? On experience with an older sibling?
Also remembering that every kid is different, and every kid will have their own, unique experience with any teacher they have... someone's "good" teacher might be someone else's "bad" teacher.
Or is the whole perception of the "good" teacher a parent creation, so that people can feel good about what class they are in?

[SnuggleBuggles]

I'd say one that makes the kids happy to go to school every day. One that effectively navigates the social and educational needs of their class.

[squimp]

There are definitely teachers that get rave reviews from parents but it does vary from kid to kid. There are a few of those at our school. Next time ask why! It could be any of those reasons. I definitely don't think it's a parent creation, but sometimes it gets repeated so much it becomes like an urban legend.

[crl]

I think it is a mish mash of all the things you mention. A lot is based on parent rumors. Some based on particular experiences with an older sibling. I think there are lots of good teachers and I don't necessarily ask for the most sought after teacher (our school doesn't generally take teacher requests from parents very seriously, but my son started on an IEP and still has a 504 plan and so I pretty much get who I want).

I put a huge amount of weight into ds' current teacher's recommendation because she knows ds, especially in the context of school, and the next grade up teachers. I also have a friend who has an older son who has an IEP and I talk with her. She has personal experience dealing with the teachers in the context of a kid with issues. And she is very tapped into the school gossip network, but able to take all of that with a grain of salt.

Some of what I want is absolutely what other parents want (for example to avoid the teacher that it took the school five years to fire despite the fact that she would do things like fall asleep in class--not kidding, I was told this by another teacher). But some of what I want is more particular to my ds. He needs an organized teacher because he has trouble with organization, yet needs structure to feel comfortable. And I need someone with enough mental energy to keep up with him and keep him engaged. I rejected a well-regarded third grade teacher for ds because other parents have found him to be calm (which is awesome) but not very creative or energetic in dealing with unique issues with special needs kids. I bet he's a great teacher, he just didn't sound like a good fit for ds.

It's hard as a parent to try to sort it all out. A good teacher is so crucial (for every kid, but especially for a kid with issues, like mine). And not all teachers are good. And many teachers are good, but not every fit is good. And as parents, we have very few ways to get any solid information about teachers.

Catherine

[BillK]

Our boys both got the "good" teacher this year after having lived through "oh I'm sorry to hear you got THAT teacher" last year.

For us - it seems the "good" teacher is the one all the parents who ARE teachers themselves specifically request for their kids. :)

[chlobo]

I don't know what it is because I've heard all sorts of stories about kids having bad experiences with the "good" teacher and vice versa. I think sometimes its based on a child's subjective opinion. Like they may not like the strict teacher but in fact, they need the strict teacher or else they'd goof off too much. Things like that.

[Green_Tea]

I could write a novel on this, but here's what it boils down to: IME, "the good teacher" is the one the parents like the best on a personal level. The like his or her personality, the think they're friendly, they "hit it off" with them. The "good teacher" is rarely good because it's the teacher who their kids learn the most from, or the teacher who has the strongest teaching skills. Sometimes these things overlap, but not always. Parents seems to think teachers are good if they're sweet and never yell. Some of the best teachers my kids have had have been yellers. Parents seem not to like strict teachers, but I happen to think that strict should be the default.

My kids are 6,8, and 9.5. They've had "the good teacher" and they've had the teachers parents claim not to like. They've definitely loved "the good teacher" but have learned just as much - if not more - from the teachers parents seem not to like. When parents gush over certain teachers, I usually take it with a grain of salt. It's rarely because their kids made enormous academic strides in that teacher's class.

[arivecchi]

Since we are starting kindy soon I've been wondering about this myself! My son did not get the "good teacher". The "good teacher" in this case has been teaching kindy for about 30 years, is very friendly and energetic. The other teacher came from another district to teach in the Chinese immersion program. This is her first year teaching regular kindy in our district (though she taught kindy at another great school district for many years). English is her second language, she is quiet and not exactly personable.

I was kind of disappointed, but I really know very little about her, so I know that is unfair and we just need to hope for the best. As green tea says, she may end up surprising us and be a good fit for our child even though superficially she does not give the best first impression.

[crl]

Oh, some of my ds' best teachers have been people who rubbed me the wrong way for whatever reason. I get over it because I can see how awesome they are with ds!

Catherine

[BillK]

Our experience with the "bad" teacher last year was pretty bad.

She was a SUPER nice person but a total space cadet. Communicating with her was an excercise in frustration every time. It literally took like 3 emails to get an answer back from her about very simple questions regarding schoolwork.

Heck I even got back one answer about a 1st grade geometry question like 5 WEEKS after I emailed her. I had gotten my answer here within minutes so I never bothered following up with her and when I got that email I was like....seriously?!?!

We're ready to see what the "good" teacher is like this year. :)

[ha98ed14]

I could write a novel on this, but here's what it boils down to: IME, "the good teacher" is the one the parents like the best on a personal level. The like his or her personality, the think they're friendly, they "hit it off" with them. The "good teacher" is rarely good because it's the teacher who their kids learn the most from, or the teacher who has the strongest teaching skills. Sometimes these things overlap, but not always.

For us, this was totally true. This is DD's first year of K, and I am not sure if the teacher I wanted for DD is considered the best, but I wanted her based on her profile, which all the teachers have on their classroom pages. This woman loves ethnic cooking, surfing and lists among her best life experiences living abroad in XYZ Country, which is also where I did all the research for my Master's thesis. She sounds like someone DH and I would be friends with. One of the other teachers listed her favorite activities as shopping at South Coast Plaza, which rather horrifies me. She may very well be a fantastic teacher, but since I don't share her values, I cannot see myself relating to her. It probably has nothing to do with DD's learning or the teacher's demeanor in the classroom. But since it's DD's first year in real school, I wanted a teacher that I *feel* like I can relate to. It's completely subjective, and I realize that. I am so, so thankful that DD got Mrs. SurferEthnicCook, but I know that she would probably have been okay with Mrs. SouthCoastPlaza, too.

[dowlinal]

I think a lot of it is subjective. My older daughter adored her first grade teacher and I thought she was fabulous, but I have good friends with kids that have different personalities who did not like her. I think it's easier to know who the bad teachers are. My oldest had a Kindy teacher that I will not allow near my other three. She left my daughter behind twice, allowed a child with issues to fixate on her and touch her inappropriately repeatedly bc "she's beautiful and we should get used to the boys liking her," and was just an all around bad teacher who clearly did not enjoy the kids at all.

[brittone2]

allowed a child with issues to fixate on her and touch her inappropriately repeatedly bc "she's beautiful and we should get used to the boys liking her,"
WTH???

:barf:

[crl]

I do agree that the "bad" teachers are more likely to truly be bad. At least in my experience the "bad" teachers come with specific examples that most people would agree are very problematic.

Catherine

[mctlaw]

Our boys both got the "good" teacher this year after having lived through "oh I'm sorry to hear you got THAT teacher" last year.

For us - it seems the "good" teacher is the one all the parents who ARE teachers themselves specifically request for their kids. :)

Hopefully this is us this year. I can definitely tell you what a "bad" teacher is based on last year...

[lalasmama]

This is an interesting question to me.

We live in a tiny town (one elementary, one middle, and one high school). My neighbor grew up here, and is VERY involved with everything around the school. Every year, we chat about who our kiddos got. According to her, DD's had two teachers with "meh" reputations.

Both of her teachers seemed really good to me. They interacted well with her, helped her understand what she was learning, helped her navigate social situations, communicated well with me.

Her second grade teacher bumped up to third grade this year, and we're with her again, and I'm stoked about it. She knows DD well--how she learns, how it looks when she's not engaged with things, how it looks when she's upset about something. She's already aware of DD's allergies, and, generally, what she can/can't have. She calls often just to check in on things. She encourages DD and also challenges DD.

Did we get the teacher everyone else was clamoring for? Nope. Did we get one that will be great for DD? Oh yeah.

I think a lot of it is based on prior family experiences. My brother had a terrible time with his 6th grade teacher (was still in the elementary school at the time). My mom was adamant that the teacher was a "bad" teacher. When my BFF made it into the same class years later, she and her parents loved, and RAVED, about how great that teacher was.

[Green_Tea]

I do agree that the "bad" teachers are more likely to truly be bad. At least in my experience the "bad" teachers come with specific examples that most people would agree are very problematic.

Catherine

Totally.

I just want to clarify - I don't think a teacher who leaves kids behind, or doesn't answer parents emails or any of the other truly unprofessional things that people have described is acceptable. What I was comparing were "the good teachers" and all the other teachers who are extremely competent but don't seem to capture the parents' fancy in some way. I guess there are three categories: "the good teacher" (the one parents love typically for reasons that have nothing to do with their actual teaching talents), the competent teacher, and the bad teacher (who should probably not be allowed to teach). I am sure the truly bad teachers exist, but I think they're pretty few and far between.

[hellokitty]

To me a good teacher is one who is organized and consistent. I don't want to hear about a teacher favoring one child over another or treating one child particularly harshly, kwim? They need to have good communication skills and be able to answer questions well and be timely. Basically, I want someone who seems to like their job. DS2's preschool teacher was the perfect example of this, she is allowed to retire, but still continues to work part time, b/c she loves her job and you can really tell from the way she interacts with the kids and parents and her enthusiasm, it is very obvious. I think that the thing about being a teacher is that ppl expect you to be a sweet, caring, warm person and if you are not what they envision the perfect teacher to be, they may find you less likable, even if you haven't really done anything specific to rub them the wrong way. It's amazing though how long impressions stick. My favorite teachers were my 3rd and 6th grade teachers, my least favorite teachers were my 4th and 5th grade teachers. If you were to ask me now why I loved the first two, it would be that they sincerely seemed to like and care about their students and were active listeners who were interested in the kids. I didn't like my 4th and 5th grade teachers, b/c they just weren't that nice, they went through the motions of teaching, but didn't want to do anything extra, if you asked them for something, they acted like you were bothering them, and it didn't help that they rarely smiled. My fourth grade teacher even told my mom (when my mom requested that I be more challenged), that I would always be average and would not amount to anything (I'm actually kind of pissed that my mom told me this info, she should have kept it to herself, but knowing my mom, she probably felt this would be a way to motivate me to try harder, negative reinforcement is my parents' parenting style). I had to snicker a bit when that teacher's own son flunked out of college (he was in my grade), and I always wondered if it has something to do with her personality, she's just did not come off as a very supportive type of person. Plus, who the hell goes and tells a parent that their kid will never be anything more than avg and will amt to nothing? Really, my mom should have reported her to the principal for being unprofessional.

So far we have been lucky. I've liked all of my kids' teacher's, except for DS1's preschool teacher, one of them was not very, "warm and fuzzy," she is probably retired now, and I just wrote it off as her being older. Otherwise, we have, so far always gotten along with the teachers our kids have had and felt that we had a good working experience. If I had concerns, they would listen and try the best that they could to help and if they had concerns or question, I was open and interested in what they had to say.

I do have to pipe in with a comment though, in that I notice that younger teachers use a lot of candy as bribes. DS1's K teacher was great, but omg she used a lot of candy. Now he's in 3rd grade with another younger teacher and on her, "wish" board, she is requesting candy. I had to kind of roll my eyes at that one. I get that they want to get the kids to behave, but I don't necessarily agree with the candy approach, esp since candy can make a lot of kids act worse. I'm sure ds1 will love her though, since she gives out candy.

[boolady]

I think the actual "good" teacher is the one who is a good fit for your kid, end of story. I know a friend of mine was very happy that her DD's teacher for the school year that ended in June told her that she always puts a lot of thought into her recommendations for her rising students based on which teacher they'd be a good fit with, personality and teaching style wise. I don't think you could ask for more.

I think there's a lot to what greentea said, though, about the perceived "good" or "best" teacher being the one who's most appealing to the parents for whatever reason. When I was teaching, I noticed that the "best" teachers were sometimes (not always) the ones who managed the parents the best.

[sste]

I do agree with Greentea that there are elementary teachers and pedis for that matter who are over-rated because they are very skilled in parent PR, charismatic, etc.

Maybe this isn't universally applicable but certainly with my oldest I think a "good teacher" for him would have a little bit of training in positive psychology and in cognitive-behavioral techniques. DS isn't anxious but he can be negative and perfectionistic if not redirected. I would love if he had a teacher that emphasized daily gratitude journals, would reframe things for him (DS's favorite word is "unfortunately" and we per some book now have a game where we see who can list the most fortunatelys - - e.g., unfortunately your scraped your knee, fortunately it is not broken and you can go swimming this weekend), etc.

I know teachers' training and scope of responsibility is near-endless these days . . . but I think it would be highly beneficial if our schools emphasized mental health more and the idea that mental health is something kids need to work on and "exercise" just as with physical health and learning.

[hellokitty]

Oh and last yr, DS2 got the, "good" teacher for K. I had no clue that she was the desirable one to get. She was fine, we barely had any contact all yr (she says DS2 was well behaved and a good student), and I liked her, but I didn't think that she was superior to the other K teachers (DS1 had a different teacher for K). So, I kind of scratch my head, like others said, maybe parent rumors are what get these impressions stuck into parents' heads about who the, "good" or "bad" teachers are.

[missym]

Well, I agree that the teachers who seem to have a universal reputation as ones to avoid probably have earned it. However, we've experienced the teacher who is raved about but ended up being awful for our child.

This teacher probably is great for most students, and she loves teaching gifted kids so I'm sure those students do well in her class. But she doesn't have any patience for attention issues, so our child with ADHD went from loving school to hating it thanks to her. Luckily, the next year, she had an amazing teacher who turned it all around. But we learned that even the "good" teachers aren't always a good fit for all students.

[anonomom]

DD's starting first grade and there was one "good" teacher out of the six possibilities. Nothing wrong with the others, but this particular one stands out because she so head-and-shoulders above most of the rest of the faculty. Her love for teaching and for the kids is quite evident, and her classroom reflects that. She is imaginative, energetic, patient and loving. Every single parent I spoke to wanted her and every kid I know who has had her has excelled. She's just really special.

DD ended up getting a different teacher, who seems quite nice. She's brand new (last year she student taught at our school, but this is her first year with her own classroom). I will be happy if she communicates well, is patient but firm and does a good job of encouraging the kids to push themselves.

FWIW, DD's Kindy teacher was a good teacher, just not good for us. She was very negative and as the year went on, I found out she had something bad to say about each kid in the class. Most of the parents spent the year thinking their kid was the "problem" in the classroom, and it wasn't until the end of the year that we figured out that we were all feeling that way because the teacher was telling every single one of us the same thing. But she ran a very organized classroom and the kids did fine academically.

[mom2one]

We got the "good teacher" for full day kindy. I was very excited. It turns out that I did not think we had a good teacher after all, but that was the rumor. My DS never bonded with her and did not really care for her, so I do think this "good teacher" thing is subjective.

For first grade we had the "new teacher" to our school and grade level. She has been teaching for 20 something years. She was very strict, but my son did learn a lot. Most of the parents in the class did not like her.

For second grade. All the teachers in this team had an amazing reputation. We loved who we got. FOr the first time my DS said he loved his teacher and that meant a lot to me as his parents. After all, we do want our kids to love school and learning.

I would not worry if you get the "good teacher" or not. I would worry if you got the teacher that everyone hates.

[bisous]

Well, I disagree with most of you. I do think there is a subset of teachers who are just awful and their reputation is pretty well deserved. I also think there are teachers who work well with a certain group of students but not others.

Then there are just plain fantastic teachers who earn their reputation as "the good teacher" because they work well with ALL of their students (because they painstakingly craft their teaching methods and lesson to suit their current class and change things for individual students) and who manage to push them to tremendous levels academically. I know this because my mom is one of those teachers. All of the district employees ask for her to be their kids teacher. The principal, in an unprecedented step in her district, just asked her to loop (teach the same kids another year) as an experiment to see just how much an awesome teacher can do and in an attempt to retain the GATE kids who would otherwise leave the school. She is also teaching a very autistic child this year whose parents observed her for weeks before deciding she was the right fit for their child.

Some teachers just really are "the good teacher". Because they are better than most both in working individually with kids and also in increasing their ability to learn.

[csnoop]

Agreeing with some of what was already said earlier that a "good" teach is one that has a good fit with your child.

DD just started kindy earlier this week. My friend, whose daughter is DD's best friend (known each other since birth), also teaches at the school. DD is in a Spanish immersion track so you get one of two teachers. My friend said that both kindy teachers are great. You can go wrong. The teacher DD got seems fine, though I haven't spoken much to her. She is a native Spanish speaker and came to this country as an adult. She has a fairly strong accent. I know that that would normally be something that turns me off. But my friend assures me that the teacher has the best Spanish around and has been teaching immersion for a long time. She is also very calm, which is a great fit for DD. DD doesn't respond as well to the super energetic teacher. So far, DD has been doing fine.

My friend also told me that last year, a teacher was let go or fired or transferred somewhere else (not sure the exact term) from the school. Her comment was that the teacher was "lazy". Not sure exactly what that means. But definitely not signs of a good teacher.

CC

[dowlinal]

WTH???

:barf:

As you might imagine I spent a lot of time in the principal's office that year.

[strollerqueen]

To quote Chief Justice Stewart, "I know it when I see it." My son's teacher last year was kind and patient and talked to me nearly daily about how he was doing. She was strict, but praised him frequently and encouraged him to do his best. She checked in with him to make sure he heard her, and understood her instructions. She never raised her voice or yelled at any of the students. My son loved her so much that it's spoiled him for other teachers.

Contrast that with one he had in the First Grade. She "red carded him" and sent him to the Principal's office nearly every day for every little thing..not sitting still, making a face, etc. Consequently he sat there nearly every afternoon, not learning. Sometimes he told her he couldn't hear her instructions (he has hearing problems in one ear due to numerous surgeries). She said he COULD hear her, and was only pretending not to. She yelled at me for sending him on a field trip "with only one piece of bread to eat", and when he told her all the things I had packed, she told him he was lying for me. She watched him get punched by another kid, as I was standing there, but said it was not her responsibility because the bell had already rung. She told him to write 25 Valentines for all the kids in the class, to write all of their names on them and sign his, AND to write original verses on all of them! When he went to her for help, she told him the work was First Grade level, and that if he couldn't do it, she would flunk him. He stood there and cried, as she told me the same thing. That was the last straw, and I pulled him out of the school that day. He was completely traumatized for school the rest of the year, and actually for some time after. A bad teacher can strongly negatively impact a child's life, and make them hate school. So that's why people don't want them.

[maylips]

W

Then there are just plain fantastic teachers who earn their reputation as "the good teacher" because they work well with ALL of their students (because they painstakingly craft their teaching methods and lesson to suit their current class and change things for individual students) and who manage to push them to tremendous levels academically.

I would agree that, for me, this is what makes a good teacher a good teacher. However, I think it's hard for parents who are not in the classroom with the teachers every day to truly know if their child has this type of teacher or not. So really, how a teacher gets the reputation in the parenting circles for being "good" is that many different students have great experiences with that teacher, so over the years more and more parents rave about him/her.

However, I feel that what happens when some situations go badly is that one parent will hear great things about a teacher from parents of kids who all have similar personalities and/or backgrounds, so they think that's the best teacher for their child, when in reality that teacher was just a better fit for one type of learner, KWIM?

Our school tries to honor parent requests so when I did my homework last year for kindergarten this year, I really listened to the opinion of a friend of mine who has a child with a similar personality as my daughter (strong willed, bright, likes structure and organization.) Will that teacher be the right fit for my son too? Not sure yet.

[klwa]

Last year, I met up with some parents I knew who had older kids & asked abotu the teacher DS got. All of them kind of got a panicked look on their faces & said "She's good...... But she's very strict!" And I smiled and said, "Well, I think that's probably what DS needs!" They looked at me like I was crazy & wandered off. By the end of the year, she had DS doing what he was supposed to be doing for end of grade level & when we'd meet with her, you could tell she truly cared about the kids & what they were doing. Heck yes, she was strict, and I appreciated it. (My dad, former educator, came in on the last day of school, and commented that THIS teacher knew what she was doing, he could tell by the way her classroom was laid out & the way the kids acted in the classroom.) So, she wasn't the "good" teacher. That was the class across the hall. But she was the teacher my son needed. :)

That said, I'd be a little hesitant if I was told I had the "bad" teacher by more than one person, because usually there's a reason.

[smiles33]

I find this thread so fascinating. GreenTea's post resonated with me because it is exactly what I think about professionals from fields in which I don't have personal experience/ability to judge them. Frankly, you cannot judge a professional based on how friendly/nice s/he is but that's the natural barometer for many of us. I know I like friendly nice people much better, but sometimes those people just aren't effective/talented enough to do the technical job.

For example, DH is an orthodontist and chose DDs' pediatric dentist because he knows this guy is REALLY good (e.g., great hand skills so he can perform very precise dental procedures and great at talking with the kids and keeping them calm/engaged while he does fillings/pulls teeth/etc.). However, he is near-universally "detested" by the local moms' club because he is not touchy-feely with the parents. Yes, I do find him a little brusque in fact, and was surprised how friendly and nice he was with my DD2 when he recently filled a cavity for her. He's a kid-oriented person, not parent-oriented, and he also isn't a pushover. The fact that he refused to allow moms to sit in the back and hold their kid's hand while he does fillings was repeatedly mentioned as why no one should bring their kids to him on my local message board.

Instead, those moms all LOVE the pediatric dentist who agrees to every request even if it might put their child at risk (e.g., mom gets in the way of assistants/dentist, child freaks out more because mom stays, etc.), who is very friendly and outgoing, and, per DH, the guy actually is a terrible dentist who messes up frequently (but of course DH doesn't tell his patients' moms that the pediatric dentist is bad).

I imagine there are plenty of effective and talented teachers who are friendly and nice with parents, but that's not my priority. I want an effective teacher who can manage his/her classroom well (which includes helping children of all abilities), who can be as responsive as s/he can be to my child's needs, and who knows what s/he is doing when it comes to teaching. That's a good teacher in my book. If s/he can be friendly and outgoing when I see him/her, that's just a bonus point.

P.S. I volunteered a few times in the classroom last year when I could afford to take a vacation day and realized DD's kindergarten teacher was not only brusque/emotionless but also burned out/checked out. This is a veteran teacher that someone else had praised (when her kids were in the class 15 years ago). I ignored her apathetic attitude toward DH and me, but assumed she would be fantastic inside the classroom. Sadly, sometimes you don't know until you see the professional in action.

[maestramommy]

I think it's very hard to say. Dora got K teacher that two of my friends hated. But they qualified it by saying because she was a girl she'd probably be fine. Maybe this is true, because it was clear from our conferences that this teacher thought Dora was a great student, and she is a classic teacher's pet, without the pet part:p (she doesnt' chat up her teachers, just behaves really well). But one of my friends complained about other things, and really I thought this teacher was perfectly fine.

I think this is the first year any of my kids have gotten a raved about teacher (Laurel), and I'll see how it goes. Sometimes it just depends on the combo of the two personalities, and I like to think that a really good teacher can rise above a bad/or not so great combo and make it work somehow.

[fedoragirl]

double post

[fedoragirl]

I could write a novel on this, but here's what it boils down to: IME, "the good teacher" is the one the parents like the best on a personal level. The like his or her personality, the think they're friendly, they "hit it off" with them. The "good teacher" is rarely good because it's the teacher who their kids learn the most from, or the teacher who has the strongest teaching skills. Sometimes these things overlap, but not always. Parents seems to think teachers are good if they're sweet and never yell. Some of the best teachers my kids have had have been yellers. Parents seem not to like strict teachers, but I happen to think that strict should be the default.



What an excellent post. As a former teacher who refuses to go back into public school teaching, I really appreciate parents who have this perspective. Unfortunately, I had parents who had the opposite perspective which makes me very reluctant to teach in the public school system.
I am a strict teacher and I am a strict parent. That is my personality. I also have high expectations and I do not lower them to accommodate a LD or ESL child or for any student. However, I do modify, reteach, and stay after school for free to help kids out. I had parents yell at me (in front of my 8th graders), have me in the principal's office every Fri. for two months, email me threats about how they'd seen me at church etc... and have me call them after 6 pm etc. I cannot imagine why a lot of parents out there think that teachers are there to service their needs and wants when we're clearly there for the child. You know how many kids came to my after-school help? Three! I taught 95 kids.
I even took some kids home because their parents forgot to pick them up at 7 pm! I did go through our school resource officer etc. because everything one does now even out of kindness can put you in court.
And ALL my students told me that I was the strictest teacher they ever had. Well, these are the same students who are still emailing me 4 years after they left my class. On the other hand, I can only recount 5-10 parents complimenting me and thanking me for teaching their child and pushing them to achieve their potential.
Sadly, 95% of the parents in my experience equate good teacher to "nice" teacher who gives their kids good grades, no homework, and is really friendly to them.

[hellokitty]

I find this thread so fascinating. GreenTea's post resonated with me because it is exactly what I think about professionals from fields in which I don't have personal experience/ability to judge them. Frankly, you cannot judge a professional based on how friendly/nice s/he is but that's the natural barometer for many of us. I know I like friendly nice people much better, but sometimes those people just aren't effective/talented enough to do the technical job.

For example, DH is an orthodontist and chose DDs' pediatric dentist because he knows this guy is REALLY good (e.g., great hand skills so he can perform very precise dental procedures and great at talking with the kids and keeping them calm/engaged while he does fillings/pulls teeth/etc.). However, he is near-universally "detested" by the local moms' club because he is not touchy-feely with the parents. Yes, I do find him a little brusque in fact, and was surprised how friendly and nice he was with my DD2 when he recently filled a cavity for her. He's a kid-oriented person, not parent-oriented, and he also isn't a pushover. The fact that he refused to allow moms to sit in the back and hold their kid's hand while he does fillings was repeatedly mentioned as why no one should bring their kids to him on my local message board.

Instead, those moms all LOVE the pediatric dentist who agrees to every request even if it might put their child at risk (e.g., mom gets in the way of assistants/dentist, child freaks out more because mom stays, etc.), who is very friendly and outgoing, and, per DH, the guy actually is a terrible dentist who messes up frequently (but of course DH doesn't tell his patients' moms that the pediatric dentist is bad).

I imagine there are plenty of effective and talented teachers who are friendly and nice with parents, but that's not my priority. I want an effective teacher who can manage his/her classroom well (which includes helping children of all abilities), who can be as responsive as s/he can be to my child's needs, and who knows what s/he is doing when it comes to teaching. That's a good teacher in my book. If s/he can be friendly and outgoing when I see him/her, that's just a bonus point.

P.S. I volunteered a few times in the classroom last year when I could afford to take a vacation day and realized DD's kindergarten teacher was not only brusque/emotionless but also burned out/checked out. This is a veteran teacher that someone else had praised (when her kids were in the class 15 years ago). I ignored her apathetic attitude toward DH and me, but assumed she would be fantastic inside the classroom. Sadly, sometimes you don't know until you see the professional in action.

:yeahthat: I think that this applies in a lot of professions. DH worked at a place with two heart surgeons, one who was at the top of his game, but lacked bedside manner and was generally disliked by staff, and not likable as a person, but as a surgeon he's great. The other was a bit of a hack, BUT he was easy to talk to, got along with and was generous to the staff, and his patients and their families really liked him, since he had a good personality. The other surgeon was always shocked that the other guy had not been sued before, even though he was a pretty terrible surgeon with horrible stats. However, having good social skills can take you pretty far, even if you are not that great in your profession. Likability is more important that most ppl will admit. Patients and their families are less likely to sue a doctor that they like, and probably more likely to sue one that they find to be stuck up or cold. It's sometimes hard for ppl to believe that someone that is not as good as they are in the same field, can be more highly regarded, due to solely on their likability, and less on their skills. I've seen this happen a lot in the medical field.

[ncat]

My DD had the good K teacher (but most of the other parents I talked to also thought that any of the other 3 K teachers were also the 'good' teacher).

Why was he good?

He clearly enjoys teaching K

He is proud of his students, his school, and our public school system

He challenges each student to do their best, as individuals (he snuck DD advanced math exercises, for example)

He encourages the kids to try spelling, writing, etc., even if it meant making mistakes. I could not believe how well most of the kids were writing at mid-year (and 1/4 of the class started K at 4 yo!)

He makes the classroom a fun place to be and learning fun and exciting!

We also really liked DD's 1st and 2nd grade teachers, but her K teacher was exceptional!

[acmom]

As a teacher, I find it interesting to listen to the parent conversations about the "good" teachers or "bad" teachers, especially this time of the year when the discussions are often happening before the parent/child has gotten to know the teacher. The whole discussion makes me really uncomfortable, especially when parents are talking about we got "the good/bad K teacher Smith" in front of their kids. I think it is disrespectful and often starts the school year on a bad foot for everyone.

There are situations where I think the parent views are accurate, but there are a lot of times when my opinion from teaching in the local elementary school differs from the popular parent choices. There are several "good" teachers that I would not choose for my child and there are several teachers that never get talked about that I feel are really strong teachers and would love my child to have. There are also "bad" teachers that I feel have unfairly gotten that rap, as well as several teachers who are no talked about that I might put on my list of teachers that I feel are not strong.

[jerseygirl07067]

For us - it seems the "good" teacher is the one all the parents who ARE teachers themselves specifically request for their kids. :)

So true!

I will say a good teacher is one who can teach effectively to the multiple ability levels within the class, and keep the kids interested in learning. Also, organization and good communication with parents is important too.

[Karenn]

Off the top of my head, a good teacher:
*does not yell at his students.
*challenges her class.
*respects his students
*leaves her students feeling good about school at the end of the day.
*makes learning interesting & fun

We've had some teachers that have met all of the things I listed above, and teachers that have failed in all of those same areas. I do think that what makes a teacher good or bad is more than just parent perception. I think too that "good fit" plays into it a bit. A "good teacher" for one child, may not be "good" for another. But I think that the very best teachers are able to reach all of their students, and that's part of what makes them a "good teacher."

I have been shocked however, at the complete lack of tact some parents seem to have when it comes to expressing their opinions about which teachers are good, and which are bad. (And I wonder if perhaps it was that which rubbed the OP the wrong way?) Parents often seem to have no filter in this area and will starting ripping teachers apart without regard to their audience. (i.e. in front of children, in front of friends of the teacher, in front of the teacher's colleagues, and even in front of the teacher's spouse!) I think that's really in poor taste. I think it's fine for people to have opinions about which teachers are good or bad, but just like everything else, you've got to be careful about when and with whom you share those opinions.