Update in #20 - Homework issues - how do I respond to the teacher?

[mikeys_mom]

Some background info - DS had a really rough year in school last year and as a result we have been investigating various issues. We have ruled out ADHD and know that he is in the superior intelligence range. At the moment we are dealing with a borderline Aspergers diagnosis. The Dev ped needs to look at a few more things before she feels ready to dignose or not. His major issues in school are fitting in socially and focusing in class.

Today he comes out of school and bursts into tears that he has so much homework because he wasn't focused in the afternoon and his hebrew teacher wrote a note in his agenda about that and that's why he now has extra homework to finish off what he didn't do in class and that she is so mean.

I have already spoken with the teacher briefly about his issues and she has also been updated by the special ed co-ordinator and the guidance counsellor about what's going on. Several times already this year when he had a lot of homework or just had trouble sitting and focusing, I told him to leave out a few pages and we would complete it another night. I always write her a note about it and it hasn't been a problem.

Tonight he has 9 pages to complete. It is nothing difficult and honestly, if he were to just sit and focus he could whip through it in 20 minutes. However, with him it's all in his head, thinking that this is an enormous amount of work and he will fixate on that and throw a fit about how unfair it is rather than just doing the work. I know that if I tell him to only do a few pages, it will be much smoother and he will do it with minimal complaints.

Here is the problem - this teacher gives a lot of homework so it's not like I can expect tomorrow to be a lower workload. His limit that he can handle is 2-3 pages a night. She generally gives 3-5 pages a night. Add to that the fact that this week and next week are short weeks because of the Jewish holidays and that the school has a policy of no homework on weekends and really, I just don't know how he will ever finish his work from today.

The fact that the teacher for the first time wrote a note in his agenda, despite being told that he can't handle large volumes of homework tells me that she just doesn't get it and expects the work to be completed. I asked DS what he was doing during class and he said that he had trouble getting back into the school routine after being off for the holidays for 2 days. He said he was listening but rather than writing the answers in his workbook he was trying to see if he could get his ruler and markers to connect between 2 desks. Oy!!

I asked what they were learning in class and he told me they were learning some rules about the upcoming holidays. I haven't looked through his workbook yet to see the questions but he was able to give me some pretty detailed information on the rules and observances of the holidays. IMO he probably absorbed all the content but couldn't get it together to answer the questions. There is no way I am making him do the 9 pages tonight. It's just not happening and I know he can't handle it. The Dr agrees with this approach. She said basically to push him just ever so slightly beyond his usual level of frustration but no more than that.

How do I respond to the teacher? Do I tell her that he did what he was capable of and that he will try to complete as much as he can another night? Or do I just tell her he did what he could and don't mention completing anything beyond that?

I really need to sit down and meet with the teachers but it's been so chaotic with all the holidays and we only had our parent follow-up meeting with the dr last week that we haven't had a chance to schedule anything yet. I just feel like I need to set the right tone with this teacher from the start. Ugh. I hate homework!!

[sophiesmom03]

We worked with teachers and developed a plan like:

10 minutes/night for 1st grade
20 minutes/night for 2nd grade
30 minutes/night for 3rd grade

I'd set a timer (actually DC set it, it's one of those animal shaped one hour timers) and what was done in the time, was done. What wasn't, wasn't.

The condition was that for those 10, 20, 30 minutes concentration had to be there and the work had to be the best possible effort.

[fedoragirl]

I cannot relate to your problem as a parent because my kids are too little yet but as a teacher, I can try to formulate a plan.
I don't know if the teacher "just doesn't get it" but rather that she may have forgotten about DS' special needs. Again, just to give someone the benefit of doubt.
So, I would just email DS' teacher and reference his ongoing diagnosis and special ed needs. And then, remind the teacher about the extent of H.W. he can do per night. Also, I would add something to the effect that he is absorbing and learning the lessons in class and H.W. is a great way to reiterate that. But, if he is being forced to do h.w. beyond his functioning capability daily, it will become a discipline challenge for you. Not to mention that you'd rather DS view the homework as a reiteteration of his learning in class and not as a burden that you, as a parent, have to fulfill.
And I would end with a request for a meeting to help clarify any other concerns or misunderstandings.
What I would NOT do absolutely is to tell the teacher to give DS less homework---well, you are telling her that in an indirect way.
Also, when things get overwhelming for DS, you should send a reminder email to the teacher. As a teacher, I often felt that parents only came down hard on teachers when something was wrong, and of course, the person to blame had to be the teacher. I found it much more helpful and reassuring when parents periodically checked on their kids and sent me a friendly email which also may have included any special requests, etc. It showed me that we were a team and not teacher vs parent.

[AngB]

What grade are we talking here? Big difference if it's elem vs middle school, imo.

Even so, without an IEP or 504 plan in place or a diagnosis, the teacher isn't technically really under any obligation to modify homework or assignments at this point, I believe in private schools even less so because they don't have as strict of laws for learning problems to comply with as public schools do. And as far as getting a diagnosis, I think in some cases it's helpful to let them fail a little so they can see where the problems are. If the teacher starts making modifications without a diagnosis, on paper it can look like "well, he's doing all of his work, doing well on it, what's the problem?" when really he may only be doing half the work of other kids with a lot of redirection and intervention.

I think in your shoes, I would focus on time over # of pages completed, and would start with the stuff from class so hopefully he will breeze through it. 10 minutes (of focused working) per grade level seems an appropriate expectation for most kids. Then they get a break to play (or do whatever) for a short time, go back and do 10 more minutes, etc.

Then I would send a note back to school, "he only got x done, and worked x minutes. Let's set up a time to talk about this." I would also make sure he is sitting front and center or near where the teacher spends most of her time teaching, so they can make sure he is working when he is supposed to be.

[ha98ed14]

Even so, without an IEP or 504 plan in place or a diagnosis, the teacher isn't technically really under any obligation to modify homework or assignments at this point, I believe in private schools even less so because they don't have as strict of laws for learning problems to comply with as public schools do.

This. I know he is going to a religious school and getting his religious education at the same time as his other subjects, BUT... if this teachers methods are so hurtful to him, and you are paying for it, I'd rethink it. I know it's different in some religious schools; the fact that you're paying may not mean much; you're still expected to conform. I guess what I'm saying is be willing to open the door on the idea of doing something else if you cannot work this out.

[randomkid]

Maybe getting a note from your DS' doctor with her recommendations would be helpful.

[KrisM]

How old is he and what grade?

[hillview]

I think your DS is 7, so ~ second grade? I'd have no issue having him do what he could and writing the teacher a note simply saying something like
"Dear teacher,
I wanted to let you know that DS is having a hard time balancing his homework and as per his development pediatrician's suggestion we are helping him balance. Tonight he was able to complete x pages of the assignment. The good news is that over a discussion at supper it is clear he is retaining a lot of information as he filled me in on xyz.

I'd love to find a time to come in and discuss DS's situation in more detail."

I wouldn't commit to him doing the rest of the assignment.

[JBaxter]

What about breaking it up. 15 minutes when he gets home from school. Stop have a snack down time etc. After dinner finish up for another 15 minutes or so.

[inmypjs]

I would ask for a face-to-face meeting with the teacher to discuss. I would nicely say what your post says, and ask for her suggestions. I'd try to find out if she would be open to a time limit for homework, or other modifications. I would frame it as asking for her help to find a solution. Relationship building goes a long way.

It depends on the homework, but I have an arrangement with my 2nd grader's teacher to do a lot of his homework orally, because he has dysgraphia (handwriting disability). She totally gets that at the end of the day he is just too zapped to do any more physical writing, so we do the work out loud and I scribe. I do think if you can reassure her that you are committed to working with your child on the material, even if it is in a different way, she would be more likely to change the requirements.

I also wanted to say that if you haven't, you should start the IEP process for him. If you don't, any modifications you secure this year will be lost with other teachers and next year. Good luck.

[knaidel]

9 pages of hebrew homework? OMG, that's a lot.

One night last week, my son had to trace "Rashi letters"-- he's 7.5 and in 2nd grade....I thought we were going to be sitting there all.evening. seriously.

I agree with hillview. send in a note... I love her suggestion.

next week in my son's class: is no english homework, hopefully no hebrew homework either!!

[AngB]

9 pages of hebrew homework? OMG, that's a lot.



But if she generally assigns 3-5 pages a night as the OP says, that means there were 4-6 pages that he should have completed in school-and that they likely even went over- but didn't.

IMO, that's partially the teacher's fault (if she's aware of his issues and they are only in elementary school, she should have been checking in and making sure he was working/following along), but also partially the student's fault (if you don't want extra homework, do your work in class!) I know it's definitely not *that* simple, but if the work should only take him 15-20 minutes to complete if he decides he wants to work on it, I don't really think that's too much to ask, even for a 2nd grader with learning disabilities.

But then again, I have no idea what these "pages" looks like, or what hebrew homework entails, so that may change my mind if I knew.

[mikeys_mom]

I cannot relate to your problem as a parent because my kids are too little yet but as a teacher, I can try to formulate a plan.
I don't know if the teacher "just doesn't get it" but rather that she may have forgotten about DS' special needs. Again, just to give someone the benefit of doubt.
So, I would just email DS' teacher and reference his ongoing diagnosis and special ed needs. And then, remind the teacher about the extent of H.W. he can do per night. Also, I would add something to the effect that he is absorbing and learning the lessons in class and H.W. is a great way to reiterate that. But, if he is being forced to do h.w. beyond his functioning capability daily, it will become a discipline challenge for you. Not to mention that you'd rather DS view the homework as a reiteteration of his learning in class and not as a burden that you, as a parent, have to fulfill.
And I would end with a request for a meeting to help clarify any other concerns or misunderstandings.
What I would NOT do absolutely is to tell the teacher to give DS less homework---well, you are telling her that in an indirect way.
Also, when things get overwhelming for DS, you should send a reminder email to the teacher. As a teacher, I often felt that parents only came down hard on teachers when something was wrong, and of course, the person to blame had to be the teacher. I found it much more helpful and reassuring when parents periodically checked on their kids and sent me a friendly email which also may have included any special requests, etc. It showed me that we were a team and not teacher vs parent.

Thank you for giving me a teacher's perspective. I certainly see this as a team effort and want to make sure I convey that to the teacher. In no way do I blame her for anything. I am well aware that having DS in the classroom will be challenging and we need to work together to find the best solutions. I am still trying to get a feel for this teacher. She is a bit of a "legend" in the school. Kids are all a bit scared of her as she is known to be very strict. Parents all have good things to say about her and report that while she is strict, she runs the class well and the kids learn a lot. I just hope she can be a bit flexible for DS's needs. In person she seems very sweet and understanding but in emails and notes in the agenda she is a bit abrupt.

[roseyloxs]

The fact that the teacher for the first time wrote a note in his agenda, despite being told that he can't handle large volumes of homework tells me that she just doesn't get it and expects the work to be completed.

However you said the 9 pages could probably be done in 20 minutes. If I were a teacher I don't think I would consider a 20 minute assignment to be a large volume. Your DS sees it differently though which is the important part. I would think its best to try and set-up a meeting to talk about it again or write an email detailing your concerns.

I would concede to the teacher that the assignment doesn't seem long to you but to DS the amount of pages overwhelmed him. If you think he would respond well to a timer and knowing that he could stop doing homework after 15 or 20 minutes then I might suggest that and see how she feels about it. If your son doesn't mind doing homework on the weekend maybe you can suggest collecting the undone pages for the weekend and letting him catch up then. HTH

[missym]

We had a similar problem in 2nd grade. The work DD1 was bringing home was just too much *for her* at the end of a long day. It would take over an hour and would often result in tears or tantrums. Some days were better than others. Finally, we asked for advice from the teacher. She said her intention was that the worksheets should take 20 minutes. We worked out a deal where if things were going well, she'd complete the whole sheet. If not, she'd do enough of it for mastery (for example, every other problem on a math sheet). It really took the pressure off all of us and still achieved the desired goals.

[sste]

Well, maybe I am missing something but she can give whatever she wants . . . and you can pull half of it and have him complete whatever you want, right?

Is it possible that she is not opposed to him doing less but just doesn't know where to draw the line, how much to give him and is assuming you will make that call? Also it is a significant inconvenience for her to create special assignments for him.

Personally, I would just create a system where DS comes home, first thing gives you the packet, half of it goes in recycling and you complete the rest with him. Let her know your plan, his testing etc., and tell her the long-term goal is for DS to eventually complete all the homework but it is probably going to take many months, working with specialists, or even a few years to reach that goal.

[mikeys_mom]

Sorry, didn't mean to post and run yesterday. I had a reply typed out late last night and then one of my 3yo's woke up and when I was done with her I lost my post. Ugh.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. It was helpful to get different points of view.


He is almost 8 and in grade 3. Yes, it is a private religious school. I'm in Canada and it's a private school so some of the SN terminology is different. Not sure what a 504 is, assuming some sort of gov't regulation on SN's. We have been working with the special ed co-ordinator since last year and we are in the process of formulating what they call a Learning Plan. The dev ped told us that since we are in a private school the need for an official diagnosis is less important than if we were in a public school, assuming the school is willing to work with us. So far I've been happy with what the school has proposed. The problem is that we only met with the dev ped last week (tried to have that appt. earlier but it didn't work out) so it didn't make sense to meet with the teachers prior to that. I have been in constant contact with the special ed co-ordinator and she is fully up to date on everything. I'm just not sure what she has shared with the teachers. Now with all the holidays, nothing will likely happen until mid-October when they are over. I am hoping that after that meeting we will all be on the same page.


So far things were going smoothly and I didn't feel he was overloaded until tonight. My understanding was that until the holiday were over that we would really ease him into the school routine and take a laid back approach. This week they were off Mon-Tues. Next week they are off Tues-Wed and then they are off again Oct 1-9. It's really hard to get him into any type of routine with these breaks.

In the end he actually did all the homework. Well, he did most of the writing and DH wrote the last 2 pages for him from DS's oral replies. This was part of the Learning Plan we had discussed with the special-ed co-ordinator. It took him about 45min to complete and he also had another 10-15 minutes of english spelling to do after that. He got through it all with little fuss and no meltdowns but DH was sitting there with him the entire time. I just think it's a bit much for *him* especially after a long school day from 9am-4pm.

I wote a note to the teacher in his agenda (her preferred method of communication) similar to what hillview suggested. I said that he did all the work but found it very overwhelming to have so many pages to do and when he was getting tired he dictated the responses and we wrote them in for him as per special ed co-ordinator's instructions in his learning plan. I then said that I think it would be helpful to meet after the holidays so we can figure out the best way to help him.

I looked at the pages he did afterwards and it is true that it was not really a lot, just a bit repetitive which he really doesn't do well with. Some pages were just reading and he only had to fill in 3 or 4 words. It's the Tal Am grade 3 curriculum for anyone familiar with the various hebrew programs. He's quite bright and has a good understanding of hebrew so I think he just gets frustrated at the repititiveness of the workbooks.

We have tried different various of using a timer and it has always been a bust. He will start to fixate on the time and then get worried that he is wasting time and then start to complain that it's not enough time...you get the picture. Meanwhile I want to bang my head on the table but instead just sit there keeping my cool and suggesting to him "Sweetie, why don't you just start your homework and not worry about the time."

Sorry for the long ramblings. I know that we need to get his Learning Plan solidified and have plans with the school to complete it but it will take a little time and I just need to keep up a good relationship with the teacher in the meantime. Hopefully she won't get upset by the note that I wrote her. Thanks again for all the suggestions. It is all good food for thought and some good ideas that I can mention at the meeting in October.

[mikeys_mom]

One night last week, my son had to trace "Rashi letters"-- he's 7.5 and in 2nd grade....I thought we were going to be sitting there all.evening. seriously.

They start learning Rashi letters this year, I think in December or January. DS has already started sighing about it. Not looking forward to that...
This is going to be a looong year...

[AngB]

In the end he actually did all the homework. Well, he did most of the writing and DH wrote the last 2 pages for him from DS's oral replies. This was part of the Learning Plan we had discussed with the special-ed co-ordinator. It took him about 45min to complete and he also had another 10-15 minutes of english spelling to do after that. He got through it all with little fuss and no meltdowns but DH was sitting there with him the entire time. I just think it's a bit much for *him* especially after a long school day from 9am-4pm.

I wote a note to the teacher in his agenda (her preferred method of communication) similar to what hillview suggested. I said that he did all the work but found it very overwhelming to have so many pages to do and when he was getting tired he dictated the responses and we wrote them in for him as per special ed co-ordinator's instructions in his learning plan. I then said that I think it would be helpful to meet after the holidays so we can figure out the best way to help him.

I looked at the pages he did afterwards and it is true that it was not really a lot, just a bit repetitive which he really doesn't do well with. Some pages were just reading and he only had to fill in 3 or 4 words. It's the Tal Am grade 3 curriculum for anyone familiar with the various hebrew programs. He's quite bright and has a good understanding of hebrew so I think he just gets frustrated at the repititiveness of the workbooks.

We have tried different various of using a timer and it has always been a bust. He will start to fixate on the time and then get worried that he is wasting time and then start to complain that it's not enough time...you get the picture. Meanwhile I want to bang my head on the table but instead just sit there keeping my cool and suggesting to him "Sweetie, why don't you just start your homework and not worry about the time."

Sorry for the long ramblings. I know that we need to get his Learning Plan solidified and have plans with the school to complete it but it will take a little time and I just need to keep up a good relationship with the teacher in the meantime. Hopefully she won't get upset by the note that I wrote her. Thanks again for all the suggestions. It is all good food for thought and some good ideas that I can mention at the meeting in October.

First of all, I'm so glad it went better than you expected! I hope you gave him a lot of praise for getting so much done and working so hard! I would also always try to remind him that the more he gets done in class, the less he will have at home! (Like, daily.)

Can DH do homework with DS more regularly so maybe he'll just get into the habit of just doing it without fussing or fighting it? Or switch nights? Or try to figure out if there's a difference between DH's approach and yours and what that might be. (I hope that doesn't come off insulting, I mean that even every teacher has a different approach, Teacher A's approach might work really well with student A, but not as well with student B, while student B does much better with teacher B but student A doesn't. That's normal. It sounds like whatever your DH did to help DS, it worked well for him.)

Are you able to reason with him at all in the sense of, "If you sit here complaining about your homework, staring at the wall, and playing with your pencil....this homework is going to take all night and you are not going to get to do anything fun like x, y, or z. If we sit down and just work really hard for 30 minutes, I can help you with anything you need help with, we'll get it done much faster, and then you will still have time to do x, y, and z." Maybe instead of framing it as "oh my! 9 pages!" Frame it as, "let's work and be focused as much as we can and do our best and see how it goes." (And then intervene and refocus as necessary. Since setting a timeframe is too distracting, just do as much as you and he can for as long as you can, as long as he's giving it a good effort.)

I think that more than 30 minutes of homework (total) for a 3rd grader with learning difficulties is a lot, unless this was mostly a fluke thing because of the work he didn't get done in class. In most cases, (with the exception of maybe a fluke night once a month or less) his teachers need to work together to make sure they aren't sending home more than 30 minutes of homework a night. If one teacher needs to send home more than 15 minutes of homework, the other teacher needs to make sure it's less than 15 minutes or less too, or to be flexible that he's only able to do 30 minutes of homework a night total between the two. I mean, now at least you know that he *can* be capable of doing as much as an hour of homework a night when he really wants to, but that is way too much to expect of him on a regular basis for a 3rd grader with learning difficulties.

I would definitely try to talk to the teacher as soon as possible, that's definitely going to be difficult with all of the holidays coming up, but he should absolutely have "preferential seating" in a seat where it will be the easiest for him to stay focused (often the front, but with some kids, towards the back with fewer students around them is better, even something like a special table). And the teacher should absolutely be checking in on him to make sure he's not spending the entire time in class playing with markers! It is really good that he is at least absorbing the information, though, even if he's not actively engaged in learning it. Some kids do better focusing if they can chew gum or have one of those squeeze balls or something to keep them "busy"..the sensory stimulation... physically while they can also learn and participate.(That can also work as a reward in the sense of, "as long as you are writing and focusing, you can have your squeeze ball. If you stop, I'm going to have to take it away.) It might be worth a try.

A 504 plan in the US is similar to an IEP but a little different. Basically, IEP's are guidelines that the teacher's are required to follow as far as accommodations based on a particular student's needs, their current progress and achievement levels, and goals they are working towards. They are updated regularly as the student progresses. A 504 plan is similar, but more for medical issues or issues that do not yet qualify for an IEP. (ADHD used to be commonly addressed in 504 plans instead of IEP's, because the rules for getting a student an IEP are more strict, I haven't taught in a few years so that may have changed.)

I'm not really familiar with the Canadian school system, but you definitely want to get a formal plan in place as soon as possible and even before that I would try to at least call and have a short talk with the teacher, so this bringing home 9 pages of work a night does not become a regular thing.

[mikeys_mom]

Update - The teacher responded back in his agenda;

Dear Mom,
Since I know it is so difficult for M to stay focused and at task in school, I assume it is the same at home. Therefore, let him do what he can. Divide it (even over Sunday). We will discuss it further after the holiday. Thank you. Happy New Year.
Teacher

Also, she underlined in my note the part where I said that DH wrote the responses that DS dictated and noted "fine".

So, I admit that I misjudged her and she clearly does "get" him and is clearly willing to work together on this and make accomodations.
I think the biggest thing that I still need to discuss with her is how DS sees things and that the way in which it is presented makes a big difference to him psychologically. Also, I really do want to give him weekends off. I think he needs it, but I don't think she will have a huge issue with that. Seems as though it was more of a suggestions.
Overall I'm happy with the response and hopefully we can keep working together this year.

[AngB]

Update - The teacher responded back in his agenda;

Dear Mom,
Since I know it is so difficult for M to stay focused and at task in school, I assume it is the same at home. Therefore, let him do what he can. Divide it (even over Sunday). We will discuss it further after the holiday. Thank you. Happy New Year.
Teacher

Also, she underlined in my note the part where I said that DH wrote the responses that DS dictated and noted "fine".

So, I admit that I misjudged her and she clearly does "get" him and is clearly willing to work together on this and make accomodations.
I think the biggest thing that I still need to discuss with her is how DS sees things and that the way in which it is presented makes a big difference to him psychologically. Also, I really do want to give him weekends off. I think he needs it, but I don't think she will have a huge issue with that. Seems as though it was more of a suggestions.
Overall I'm happy with the response and hopefully we can keep working together this year.

Maybe you could talk to your DS about doing "a little more" each day so he can have weekends free, would he buy into that?

I'm really glad she responded well!

[mikeys_mom]

Maybe you could talk to your DS about doing "a little more" each day so he can have weekends free, would he buy into that?

I'm really glad she responded well!

Not sure, but it's worth a try.

Also thanks so much for your other response. I've got to run out to curriculum night for my preschool kids in a few minutes so I don't have time to respond now but I'll read through it in more detail later. Your insights are much appreciated. Thanks.