Daddy/Mommy - update post 69

[Giantbear]

So, i wish i could say things are better, and on some levels they are, but my wife has decided having a child was a mistake and she refuses to be alone with dd for more than an hour or so, if that long. I am already doing 90% of the child rearing from wake ups to baths to night time, to cooking meals and shopping for food. My wife does pick up from day care, but late enough so i am either home or just getting home from work when they get home, does dd's laundry and will occasionally take her downstairs on a weekend morning for a little bit. Weekends she either hides in her work, she is a teacher, or goes to do errands, nails or whatever under the guise "i work hard during the week and deserve my weekends" and at night she is playing games on teh computer. I swear, i am either married to a 1950s husband or a 14 year old. She wants to show pictures, play with dd when she is happy and that is all. My wife never got over the fact that having a child means a change in your lifestyle, that you can no longer come first 100% of the time.

FML.

Well, at least people can understand why i get so upset when people generalize about husbands being clueless, or selfish or uncaring.

[Staraglimmer]

I couldn't read your post without saying, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for you and your DD. your wife may come around. She sounds like my mother. My mom is now a wonderful mother, it just took her a while. The important thing is that your DS has a wonderful, caring, and capable father.


-Stephanie
Mommy to Hailey Michelle 4/08
& Leah Claire 6/12

[sste]

Giantbear, I am so sorry to hear of this. And it is a good reminder to us all as we trash talk the errant DHs that many men are quietly and without social support shouldering enormous family burdens.

Normally I restrain myself in internetland because I am worried about mis-advising people on huge decisions. But, it seems to me ar ftefollowing your posts for a while now that it may be time for you to join the ranks of the rest of us in counseling and have a targeted number of sessions with someone to discuss the prognosis for your wife, your decisionmaking, and your understandable guilt and confusion as you try to sort out your feelings of obligation to your DW. You might also try a support group for caregivers of chronically ill spouses -- I don't know there may even be one targeted to mental illness.

Your wife seems very seriously mentally ill in a way that does not seem likely to change. You are basically the long-term caregiver for a chronically ill spouse but with none of the support that comes with that since your wife has a hidden illness.

In your situation, I personally, would not feel obligated to remain married. I would feel obligated to divorce humanely, to provide as much as possible for my former spouse's care and support. But not to do it myself, esp. while raising a DC.

[hellokitty]

Giantbear, I'm sorry that you are dealing with this and sorry that some of the threads have hurt your feelings. I get why you're offended, and it's true, not all guys are your, "typical" kind of guy. I often feel like you are in the reverse role, but then maybe that is also why you like BBB, since you can relate more with being the parent that has more responsibility when it comes to child duties.

[Tondi G]

Oh Giant Bear ... I am sorry things haven't improved with your wife. I am sorry to say that I agree with SSTE about the possibility that your wife has an illness that may never change and that no one would pass judgement on you if you made the decision to divorce. You deserve a happy, supportive spouse. Your DD deserves a Mommy who can appreciate the amazing little person she is and wants to be a participant in the raising of her. Sending (((HUGS))) your way. I do hope that one day something clicks and your wife comes around so that she may have a relationship with your DD. Hang in there Papa .... you are doing an AMAZING job!

[SnuggleBuggles]

What a hard situation. I'm so sorry. I want to think that maybe things will change when she is a kid vs a toddler; someone she can take to get nails done together, talk to... but, I wonder if it will happen. I'm optimistic by nature but it's hard for me to say I'd stay in a bad situation long enough to find out. (((((hugs)))))

[daisysmom]

I agree with so much of what sste said.

I am one of 4 children. We had a very present mother in our youth, but she was never very loving. Now we have good relationships with her, but my siblings and I often talk about how our relationships with our own children are so very different from that which we believe we had or have with our mother. My brother too -- he is so different than what I see in most of my friends dads. Even my husband remarks on how active my brother is in his 2 daughters lifes and how unusual that is (my SIL is active too, but my brother is probably the primary "lover" and "doer" in that family).

My mother was an only child, and her mother (my grandmother) went through many many bouts of depression, hospitalization, etc (this would have been in the late 40s-60s). My mother has said the words to me that her mother never really wanted to be a mother, she just wanted to have a child. And my grandfather was pretty clueless. My mother always had a good relationship with him (as did we) but he wasn't really loving, just kindof a nice guy to have around.

So my siblings and my father - we all agree that my mother wanted to create the exact opposite of what she grew up in. So she wanted many children (she got 4, but there was always a rift with my dad b/c my mother wanted to have 7 children and my father said they couldn't afford to keep having babies). But she really didn't have the ability to love them, and she still doesn't have that ability. She still tries to "manage" us if that makes sense, and offers lots of advice on everything, but she never learned what loving children was like. While she would not ever admit it, she has battled depression for a lot of years, has food addictions, alcohol addictions, etc.

My father was and is the "lover" in our lives - we all talk to him pretty much daily. He is our rock. Many times as kids and grownups even we will say "why did you stay with her?" about our mother. They have a nice relationship now, but there was a ton of strife when we were little.

So I guess -- what I mean to say to you GB is that you can do a lot, but you can't fix this situation wholly because your DD will see that her mother isn't enjoying things with her like other mothers. While I can see that she is a 1950's husband in many ways... the fact is, that was accepted in the 1950s because everyone was married to one of those guys. But now -- it just so isn't the norm. I just worry for your DD that she sees it and grows up thinking that she is to blame? I think my mother blamed herself.

I hope that you get some counseling too. And that your DD when she is older has an outlet too for the complicated feelings she will have.

[DualvansMommy]

I don't usually post on your threads, since a lot of other ladies already say a lot of great stuff/advice i would have said, but could not post without offering some support online. We all know how great of a father and partner you've been throughout the ordeal, but like you said, having a child means they come first.

Since your DD is two or around that?? it doesn't look like things will get better for your wife and things only get much harder the older your DD becomes since more interaction will be expected. Like pp said, perhaps a few counselling sessions may be what it's needed for you? more for yourself than anything else as you really need validiation from people outside of your wife, to show her that it is not the norm in your household right now.

:22:

[twowhat?]

Just had to send a hug. Things will work out because of you.

[marymoo86]

I'm so glad for your DD that she has such a wonderful Dad who is stepping up to fill in the gap. Hopefully this will be short term and the situation will improve with time. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this.

There is a very special relationship between girls and their daddies!

[hillview]

GB I am so sorry. That is just awful. You and your DD deserve better. Is there any reason to hope that it will or can improve?

[missym]

Echoing what others have said here. Your DD is so lucky to have you as her daddy. I keep hoping for you and her that things will turn around with your wife, but at least your DD has a father who is doing an amazing job. :applause:

[TwoBees]

*HUGS* I'm so sorry. You are a wonderful father to your DD. I'm sorry your DW feels the way she does.

[Giantbear]

thanks for the support all, unfortunately, i do not think this is something that is going to change. We used to discuss the possibility that her disinterest in parenting was not depression and simply that she just doesn't want to do it. I used to argue that it was the depression, but now, i am starting to realize that my wife is just a very selfish individual. All i ever hear from her is that she needs time to herself and she is 39 and won't have her free time dictated to her. I just can't imagine how i can give her any more free time. She is literally never home alone with dd. Forget about her taking a turn so i can have a little free time. It just breaks my heart what dd is going to have to go through dealing with a mother who doesn't want to or just cant be a mother.

[Momit]

I'm so sorry, Giantbear. As others have said, you are a good man and a wonderful father. You and your DD have your whole lives ahead of you - I'm sorry your wife is unable to share the joy of having a family with you. Hugs.

[kaharris83]

So sorry for you and your daughter. She is very lucky to have such an amazing daddy!!

[NJ_Mom2011]

So Giantbear, what does your wife say about counseling? If she blows that request off, wow, I personally would not feel bad showing my spouse the door.

It is so unusual to hear a mother talk so callously about her daughter. Your daughter is very lucky to have you.

[jgenie]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your DD is so very lucky to have a Daddy that takes such good care of her. I hope your DW is able to get a place where she can truly appreciate your DD.

[daisysmom]

All i ever hear from her is that she needs time to herself and she is 39 and won't have her free time dictated to her. I just can't imagine how i can give her any more free time. She is literally never home alone with dd. Forget about her taking a turn so i can have a little free time. It just breaks my heart what dd is going to have to go through dealing with a mother who doesn't want to or just cant be a mother.

Two things from this really resonated with me:

1- she is 39 and she won't have her free time dictated to her. One thing I truly believe (and at least my IRL agree) is that when you have a baby, your life is not first and foremost your own anymore. Sure there comes an age when the kids are old enough where some of my mom friends have developed new habits/pastimes/run another marathon etc... but especially among the WOTH moms, we know that these are not things that we can undertake whenever we want. You are right GB. You aren't "dictating" her free time -- having a child by necessity does this. It is just what happens.

2- forget about taking a turn so I can have a little free time. Everyone needs a little bit. You are having to be mom and dad to your DD 90% of the time, and you may burn out. You need an outlet too.

If you do agree to take a break and live separately, you can get a babysitter to carve out some free time. And your wife will have to learn that if she wants DD for more than an hour, she will need to figure out a way to make it work instead of just relying on you being there to help her. It may really help her out -- learning to fish or cut bait -- and it doesn't mean forever... you may reconcile. Two of my cousins were raised wholly by their dad (this is a brother of my father's) when the mother decided that she didn't want to be a mother back in 1975 or so. My cousins are the most wonderful parents themselves now -- my uncle did a great job with them and they lacked NOTHING in the way of love and affection and great upbringing. He never married again, but I think that was his choice. He is still very close with his ex-wife's parents too, so the children had very involved grandparents. But his ex-wife was just not there - she came to the weddings, but she just wasn't a mother figure ever to those children.

We are all sending you some positive thoughts. YOu have given this a lot of time - maybe the hard part (waiting to see if it would change) is over?

[Fairy]

thanks for the support all, unfortunately, i do not think this is something that is going to change. We used to discuss the possibility that her disinterest in parenting was not depression and simply that she just doesn't want to do it. I used to argue that it was the depression, but now, i am starting to realize that my wife is just a very selfish individual. All i ever hear from her is that she needs time to herself and she is 39 and won't have her free time dictated to her. I just can't imagine how i can give her any more free time. She is literally never home alone with dd. Forget about her taking a turn so i can have a little free time. It just breaks my heart what dd is going to have to go through dealing with a mother who doesn't want to or just cant be a mother.

GB, I am so very sorry. I am so sad for your DD. And for you. Is your marriage to DW untenable? Sometimes it is better to have one full time parent than a second who is clearly out of the picture even when married. I will always believe this. I think your assessment of your wife being selfish is likely correct given what you've indicated so far. Some people just cannot put anyone before themselves, and as they have to continue to do so become more resentful and, therefore, distance themselves from whatever it is causing the "wedge" in their lives. I think when you have a child, that child/ren beocmes #1. Priority. Always. What's best for them wins. spouses are #2, and that's how life is. I think in your situation, DW is #1, you are #2, and DD, who needs constant rearing, is #3, and that's simply not right. I hope you can come to a decision on what you n eed to do, because your DD is picking up on her mother's lack of interest. It will impact her.

:hug:

[codex57]

Having just 1 great parent is better than having a really negative one in a kid's life.

Does it suck not to have the cookie cutter ideal nuclear family? Sure, it's not ideal, but it doesn't mean your kid can't have a perfectly wonderful childhood.

If your wife really won't do the counseling thing... well, at that point just figure out what's best for you and your kid. I can't believe your wife is a teacher too.

[Giantbear]

my wife sees a therapist weekly and is on medication. And my in-laws are idiots.
I just sucks.

[Philly Mom]

GB, you are an amazing father and husband. FWIW, from following your posts and hearing you say that you don't think your wife will change, I think it is probably time to be seriously considering living separately. My friends who grew up with single parents, who were greatly loved by that single parent, grew up to be healthy happy adults. You clearly have enough love and kindness to fill a house all on your own. It sounds like you will be happier (you can hire a sitter for some alone time) and I would imagine DD would feel safer. I also second PP who mentioned seeking therapy both for you and for DD when the time is right. Good luck and we are all always here.

[NJ_Mom2011]

GB, you are an amazing father and husband. FWIW, from following your posts and hearing you say that you don't think your wife will change, I think it is probably time to be seriously considering living separately. My friends who grew up with single parents, who were greatly loved by that single parent, grew up to be healthy happy adults. You clearly have enough love and kindness to fill a house all on your own. It sounds like you will be happier (you can hire a sitter for some alone time) and I would imagine DD would feel safer. I also second PP who mentioned seeking therapy both for you and for DD when the time is right. Good luck and we are all always here.

:yeahthat: If she's saying all of this garbage about being distant from your daughter AFTER therapy, and it has been 2 years, it is time to end things.

[daisysmom]

And my in-laws are idiots.
I just sucks.

You will find something that will work for you and DD for a support system. Close friends or something. Support systems just build up for those that need them. But you will free yourself from the job of fixing (or waiting with baited breath to see the fixing happen of) DW.

Heck - internet communities aren't the same as real word friends - but you must have some close friends IRL who have watched this and see the impact on you and DD. What do they say? It would take a lot for me to leave my spouse, but honestly - if he couldn't spend more than 1 hr alone with my DD, that would give me great concern. My DD is 5 and while she is so much more independent than she was a 2 or 3, in many ways she needs MORE of me. More reassurance, more talking to, more working through the politics of kindergarten, more working through feelings of independence versus fear. I think my job raising her now is actually much harder than it was when she was a toddler -- more challenging, more time consuming based on what I need to teach and model. There is a whole different dynamic with a daughter that evolves (and not just with her mom, I see it how she evolves with my husband too). I know that all of us can say that we prefer one stage of children over another, and I know that a lot of people have commented on your previous posts about some friends who have really just fit into motherhood once their kids were older than toddlers, but to really not be able to be alone with a child is a huge roadblock. You can't always be the one to take off work and ensure your child's safety. And with a 5 year old daughter -- they really know how to "fight back" and "push your buttons" when they sense a wall there.

[cindys]

I am so sorry this is all going on for you and you DD.

My situation is different than yours but my husband says he lost his identity and hasnt been able to fish or play golf and that the best gift he can give his boys is for him to be happy.

Never mind that his little boys cry their eyes out for the Father but as long as he is happy...

So, I feel some of your pain as I try to pick up the pieces for my little guys...

I am thinking of you and I have read your prev posts and you are a great Daddy, your little girl is lucky to have you !!

Cindy
Mama to 3 boys...21, 6 & 3 :heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:

[karstmama]

i'm just sorry, gb. you sound so sad & frustrated, and i don't blame you for that in the least.

[queenmama]

GB, you are an amazing father and husband. FWIW, from following your posts and hearing you say that you don't think your wife will change, I think it is probably time to be seriously considering living separately. My friends who grew up with single parents, who were greatly loved by that single parent, grew up to be healthy happy adults. You clearly have enough love and kindness to fill a house all on your own. It sounds like you will be happier (you can hire a sitter for some alone time) and I would imagine DD would feel safer. I also second PP who mentioned seeking therapy both for you and for DD when the time is right. Good luck and we are all always here.

I agree with this and with codex. Your DD will survive -- and really, be much better off -- apart from her "mother." You are more than enough for her. She is so blessed to have you.

And it may be weird to think this far ahead, but you are setting a high standard for her spouse (assuming a male). A girl with such a devoted father will settle for no less for her own children. That's awesome, considering the billions of women that have "daddy issues" or a general mistrust/lack of faith in men.

[sste]

Giantbear, maybe our resident therapists can chime in but I believe narcissism is a mental health disorder and can be accompanied by depression, etc. Don't get me wrong I absolutely believe people are selfish too and I don't want to pathologize every bad behavior. But this is just so very, very extreme that it makes me think it is illness.

I don't think it matters at the end of the day for your decisionmaking except that it might be helpful if a professional can tell you that narcissistic personality disorders are almost never cured (or conversely that there is some great treatment).

[codex57]

my wife sees a therapist weekly and is on medication. And my in-laws are idiots.
I just sucks.

Hmmm, it may be time to cut bait and run. But yeah, I'd poll your real life friends. Online, we don't see the whole picture.

I've got friends and coworkers who are single parents. Some with kids that are teenagers. If you've got one really strong and good parent, it's better to cut out the negative parent than to stay together.

[niccig]

t All i ever hear from her is that she needs time to herself and she is 39 and won't have her free time dictated to her. I just can't imagine how i can give her any more free time. She is literally never home alone with dd. Forget about her taking a turn so i can have a little free time. It just breaks my heart what dd is going to have to go through dealing with a mother who doesn't want to or just cant be a mother.

I am so sorry. My heart breaks for you and your DD.

What you wrote above about not being dictated to, is my mother. She's still like this as a grandmother. On one visit when I said we had to stop shopping and go get DS from preschool she said she wanted to rent a car as her visit wasn't going to be dictated by a 3 year old. MIL on the other hand would say "we can't go shopping, we have to go get DS and then lets take him to the park and go get ice cream."

Like Daisymom, I think my mum doesn't know how to be a mum and it can be traced back through the family. My grandmother was neglected (raised by servants), my mother and siblings went to boarding school at age 5, my aunt would say in front of her teenage kids "I can't wait for the kids to be gone, so I can have my life." I don't think they have the maternal gene, but each generation has gotten a little better. My sisters say I'm a great mum as I get up and make DS breakfast and lunch each day - our bar is that low for what's a great mum.

Interesting enough, MIL's mother had similar childhood to my grandmother - her mum died young and she was raised by older siblings. Grandma wasn't warm and cuddly at all, DH says MIL wasn't warm and cuddly when he was a child, but she is as a grandmother. I often fall asleep with DS at bedtime and I was worried about bad habit and DH told me he never got those snuggles as a kid and as long as DS wants me there, I should stay there.

All this is to say, that how your DW feels may not change or it may not be for some time (MIL is much more motherly as a grandmother). It may get easier as your DD gets older and there's less physical demands. eg. My DS at 7yo gets ready for school by himself. But what's lacking is the emotional needs as well. That will be very difficult for your DD to deal with. DH and I have both done therapy dealing with lack of love/affection from our parents. DH did his before he met me, I went a couple of years into our marriage and after DS was born. You do need to consider your DD's long-term mental health as well.

I can't tell you what to do, but I echo the counseling for you, so you can figure out what you want for you and DD.

And you are an amazing Dad. Your DD will be OK because of you.

[infomama]

I am so sorry. My heart breaks for you and your DD.
And you are an amazing Dad. Your DD will be OK because of you.
This.
Your wife has already left GB. Sending you strength as you make you next decisions.

[hellokitty]

If you've got one really strong and good parent, it's better to cut out the negative parent than to stay together.

I agree with codex on this part. Growing up, my dad was the one who was un-involved and was toxic (GB, I'm not sure that your wife is toxic from what you've said, sounds like she just doesn't want to be involved with your dd). We begged my mom to divorce our dad when we were little kids, but she was too scared to leave him. Things never got better, in fact they got worse. My mom is still married to him (I honestly don't know why, he treats her horribly), and he has continued to damage what little relationship he has with his children, even more, and by extension is also proving to be not only a crappy father, but a crappy grandfather too. I often think that even if I would have been brought up by a single mom, my childhood and family life in general would have been more, "normal" than it has been with my father being in the picture. Some ppl just should never have been allowed to have kids to begin with, most esp the really selfish ones. My dad is one of those ppl.

[Mommy_Again]

Would your life be easier/better if you were to divorce? Would it make YOU happier?

Whichever way you're leaning, you should consult a family law attorney. There could be implications for you either way. For instance, if you decide to live together for the next 15 years for the sake of your child, in some states that could be considered a long term marriage and you could be liable for alimony. Which I think we agree would be a travesty in this case. So just make sure you know your options regardless of what you're thinking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snow mom]

I'm so sorry you are going through this GB. I agree with others that it must be harder to be in the gender reversed problem as there isn't the societal support for men that there is for women. Otherwise I think people have all sorts of relationships and I don't judge the divisions of labor as long as both parties (and the children in your case) are happy.

In your specific case I've often wondered if your wife was a good wife before DD and what she brings to the relationship that is worth hanging onto at this point. Are there hints of the problems that were to come (selfishness, etc.) in her behavior before DD but you didn't recognize them or is this a new change in behavior? We have a very external view of your relationship on this forum but I wonder if you are staying in hopes of fixing your wife (for her, for your daughter, or for yourself?) I know this wasn't your dream and while it's terrible to have to abandon that outright I probably would start thinking seriously about divorce or seperation. It's not until you cut your ties to your life as it is now that you might be able to find another path to the happiness you had envisioned in your life. I also wonder what her therapist (or another neutral therapist) thinks of whether you should keep trying to work on a situation which is obviously having a negative impact on you and your DD. I hope there are better days ahead for you and your DD, no matter which path you choose.

[pinkmomagain]

So sorry to hear this update GB. You seem like such an incredible father (and husband). I can't imagine making a decision of this magnitude without some counseling. I know your wife is seeing someone, but are you?

[elektra]

GiantBear-
I'm really sorry to hear that and I agree with twowhat in that it's all going to work out because of you.
It's so hard to say unless you are experiencing it yourself but I think I might separate at this point if it was me. I would not want my DD to continue to learn that she is not worthy of her mother's time or attention, or that it is totally ok to check out on a regular basis as a parent. Your wife seems likely to only continue with this behavior but I think it could be more damaging for your DD to have to live through it on a daily basis as opposed to having to be separated from your wife.


And you yourself do not deserve to take all that on as a spouse.

Good luck- I wish you all the best.

[3isEnough]

And it may be weird to think this far ahead, but you are setting a high standard for her spouse (assuming a male). A girl with such a devoted father will settle for no less for her own children. That's awesome, considering the billions of women that have "daddy issues" or a general mistrust/lack of faith in men.

:yeahthat: I agree wholeheartedly, you are such a strong and loving role model for your DD.

Sending positive thoughts to you and hopes that you are able to navigate the difficult times to find a happy ending for you and DD.

[Giantbear]

and to make matters worse, my fantasy football team is horrid this year.

Let me tell you, custody scares the hell out of me whenever i think of the future and what might happen. Even with her issues, and there are a few i have not mentioned, what if i lose. how could i even consider anything with that prospect. It is not as rare as in the past, but a man getting full custody is still a long shot

[lhafer]

and to make matters worse, my fantasy football team is horrid this year.

Let me tell you, custody scares the hell out of me whenever i think of the future and what might happen. Even with her issues, and there are a few i have not mentioned, what if i lose. how could i even consider anything with that prospect. It is not as rare as in the past, but a man getting full custody is still a long shot

Your situation completely and totally sucks.

If I were you...I would begin (immediately) documenting EVERYTHING regarding your DD and your wife. Not bad stuff, not good stuff....but everything. The times she's with your child alone (and for how long). What she does with her. Interactions. Have a friend over as well, so they can "witness" this as well. As much as it sucks - covering your a$$ is the only way to go, for your daughter's sake.

If divorce is even in your thoughts, I would go ahead and contact a lawyer just to make sure you have your bases covered. Usually moms get custody, but in your case, that would only hurt your dd in the end.

Hugs to you GB. It's been a long tough road for you so far, and it's probably going to get a little bumpier before it gets better.

[cindys]

I have to wonder though...Would she even want custody??

Cindy
Mama to 3 boys...21, 6 & 3 :heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:

[Philly Mom]

I second that you should see a divorce lawyer right away. They can best advice you as to what's most important in your jurisdiction. If you are staying because of custody issues, the lawyer should be able to discuss with you what factors are considered and how the best interests of the child are determined. I would not be afraid of custody. I am not sure where you live but I am sure people on this board can give you good recommendations.

[infomama]

a man getting full custody is still a long shot
You know what... I think you have a hell of a shot. I agree with pp...she may not even seek custody.

[smiles33]

I have to wonder though...Would she even want custody??

Cindy
Mama to 3 boys...21, 6 & 3 :heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:

She could to be spiteful if she felt GB was unfairly abandoning her/choosing DD over DW. Frankly, as a paranoid person, I would see a family law attorney (hopefully one who has a solid reputation gaining full custody for fathers) before raising any of this with DW to make sure all my ducks were lined up before telling her.

GB: my heart goes out to you and your DD. I truly don't know what else to add as the PP have all offered great advice and reassurances that you are doing the best you can for your DD. DW may just be missing that "parenthood" gene that supposedly biologically makes us want to be good parents. Hugs to you and your DD.

[niccig]

She could to be spiteful if she felt GB was unfairly abandoning her/choosing DD over DW. Frankly, as a paranoid person, I would see a family law attorney (hopefully one who has a solid reputation gaining full custody for fathers) before raising any of this with DW to make sure all my ducks were lined up before telling her.


:yeahthat: You need to see someone to know what's needed to prove she's not fit to have custody of DD. That probably does mean documenting a lot of things. I know it's sounds callous to be living together and gathering information to use against her if she does want custody, but for your DD's sake, you have to do it.

I could see it going either way, maybe she won't want custody, maybe she'll be angry and want custody, maybe she'll be worried about how it look to outsiders that she doesn't have custody of her own DD.

GB, we know here you've done everything you can to help your wife, but maybe she can't be helped. Now you need to concentrate on how you and DD deal with this.

[pinkmomagain]

[QUOTE=niccig;3616151]maybe she'll be worried about how it look to outsiders that she doesn't have custody of her own DD.
[QUOTE]

This would be my concern, especially if she is a teacher and "supposed" to be great with kids. And who knows what kind of influence her parents/family would have on her. I think it's the kind of thing where you'd absolutely have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[123LuckyMom]

Let me tell you, custody scares the hell out of me whenever i think of the future and what might happen. Even with her issues, and there are a few i have not mentioned, what if i lose. how could i even consider anything with that prospect. It is not as rare as in the past, but a man getting full custody is still a long shot

My long response got erased before I could send it, but even before I read this, I was shaking my head at all the advice to separate and divorce. In all but the most extreme cases nowadays, custody is usually awarded jointly. At the very least, DW would be awarded visitation, which she might choose to exercise. This means DD will most certainly be spending long chunks of time with DW without you there to supervise. You can escape the relationship, but DD can't. As a person who was a child forced to endure visitation with an abusive parent without the protection of my other parent, I can attest that this is not the better outcome for your DD, though it may well be for you. I really feel for you, Giantbear. We all know how much you love your daughter and how hard you have been trying with your wife. I know she is in counseling herself. Perhaps her therapist is good, perhaps not, but I would recommend your finding a family therapist you trust who can counsel the two of you, perhaps the three of you, together to address specifically the issues within your family dynamic. If you cannot get your DW to consent, you and DD, or you alone, can still get some professional advice on how to navigate this relationship and family dynamic. It might prove far more helpful in both the short and long runs than the advice of a divorce attorney. You may need to divorce, but I hope you will not do so until you take all steps possible to come to an agreement both you and DW can be at peace with about the ways in which you each will or will not be responsible for DD's care. When you both know and agree upon your roles, even if it's not the shared parenting you hoped for, you will know not to expect more, and that may help quite a lot. Whatever happens, I wish all good things for you and your family. You deserve them!!!

[twotimesblue]

As someone who was brought up with an incredibly toxic parent (my father) I can only tell you that the happiest day of my childhood was when he finally walked out (my mum would never have had the strength to leave).

The fact that she allowed her kids to have such a narcissistic figure in our lives for so many years caused a huge strain on mine and my siblings' relationship with mum: I adore her, and as an adult understand why she felt she had to make the choices she did, but as a teenager I struggled with why she hadn't 'protected' us from him, and your DD may feel the same towards you if the situation doesn't change.

My dad sounds very much like your DW - the world (still) revolves around him and we were nothing more than an inconvenience and disappointment to him growing up... from a very young age we were cognizant of this, despite my mum making excuses for him etc. I can tell you, from experience, that it is MUCH better to be brought up by one loving, involved parent than to live in a house full of conflict, where you're constantly trying to win over a mother/father who wants nothing to do with you. Your DD deserves so much better - and frankly, so do you. Maybe in time you will re-marry and your DD will get the mother figure that your DW so clearly isn't. So sorry you're having to go through this :hug:

[niccig]

My long response got erased before I could send it, but even before I read this, I was shaking my head at all the advice to separate and divorce.

This has been a long standing issue with GB's family. No one here wants to push for separation or divorce. That is the very last thing anyone wants. No one is being flippant or encouraging such a huge step without much contemplation, try every avenue first. Previous posts have all been on suggestions to help with his wife.

There is only so much that GB can do to help his wife if she does not want to be helped. I agree with you that counseling for himself is crucial so he can decide what is in his and his DD's best interests.

If GB decides to stay and try again, we will all support him and give any advice he asks for.

If GB decides he and DD need to leave, we will all support him and give any advice he asks for.

[hellokitty]

GB, I know you are scared that you won't win custody, BUT it does happen. I know a mom in a moms group who refused custody of her oldest son (she remarried and started a new family). It is really sad, but the boy lives with his dad and step-mom. He has visitations with his bio-mom (this is the kind of person she is... when I asked her what grade her son was in, she told me that she didn't know... saying that nobody will tell her anything?!?!?). So, it is a valid concern that even if you divorce and you have shared custody, she could have visitation with dd... but from the sound of it, it sounds like this is something she wouldn't be interested in. However, if she wants to hurt you, I guess she could demand visitation, b/c she knows it will drive you nuts. How would your wife react if you started talking about a trail separation or divorce? Would she freak out or does she just want out of the situation too?

The problem with this scenario is that it sounds like you are trapped and won't be able to move on if you stay married. To a certain extent, I wonder how mendable your marriage is (I'm thinking that since she doesn't want to spend time with dd, that you guys basically don't spend much time together, since you are watching your dd by yourself when you aren't a work). If I had a spouse who despised our child for her existence, I would harbor a lot of hostility toward that person. I don't know if I could ever forgive him for being that way, even if it is related to mental illness. At least if you divorce, you may end up finding someone else that you love and can re-build a sense of family that way and still have a chance at happiness again. It just seems like you have been in a holding pattern of misery, and I know that you are trying to do the right thing, but it isn't fair to you, nor is it fair to your dd.

[sste]

I would def. talk to an attorney before making assumptions about child custody. I feel like that must be evolving or at least in some states -- I know my female friend may lose custody of their child to her husband due to her serious mental health issues in the past. :(
Apparently, an indep. psychologist plays a big role in evaluation and making the decision about custody, visitation, supervised visitation, etc.

I would at least find out the facts and then you can weigh the risk. It may also be the case that your DW would agree to full custody in you in a mediation. I agree with other posters that that is hard to predict but again it might be worth discussing with your DW, maybe with a counselor there, to see what she would envision on the DC front if you separated or divorced.

[maestramommy]

Late to this thread, but I'm really sorry to hear this Giantbear. You've gotten lots of great feedback already. :hug::hug: to you and your beautiful little girl. You are in our thoughts.

[123LuckyMom]

Please don't misunderstand, Giantbear and PPs, I don't mean to criticize anybody. I know everyone wants to help and do and suggest the right thing. Sometimes divorce is the best option. I'm certainly not against divorce in every circumstance. I do think, though, that children sometimes get stuck remaining in dysfunctional relationships even when their parents escape. Therefore, if at all possible, it's best to try, with the help of a professional, to get everyone on the same page before making the move to divorce court. It may be that this divorce can happen amicably with no custody battle at all, or that the relationship can be stabilized so that everyone feels comfortable staying. I know Giantbear has been struggling for a long time. I greatly respect him, and I know he wants the very best for his daughter. I was trying to express that divorcing or even separating before doing everything possible to diffuse the situation might prove problematic. I really, truly meant no criticism or offense. In disclosure, I have worked in both family law and counseling, and I recommend counseling before legal action. It can only make the steps to and through separation and divorce(or reconciliation) more clear and better tolerated by all parties, including Giantbear's DD.

[trcy]

GB, I am so sorry things have not improved. :hug: Your DD is so blessed to have such a loving father.

[ha98ed14]

and to make matters worse, my fantasy football team is horrid this year.

Let me tell you, custody scares the hell out of me whenever i think of the future and what might happen. Even with her issues, and there are a few i have not mentioned, what if i lose. how could i even consider anything with that prospect. It is not as rare as in the past, but a man getting full custody is still a long shot

Do you think she would fight you for custody? She doesn't want to be around DD when your not home; she's gonna be alone with DD a lot more if she has joint custody! From what you describe, I doubt she would use all her visitation.

[sweetsue98]

GB do you think she will be better with DD when shes older? Maybe it will give them more activities to do together.

[DrSally]

I'm sorry things are sitll the same. Wanted to send hugs.

[TxCat]

Giantbear, I am so, so sorry to hear this. My heart breaks for you and your DD. You are an amazing spouse and father.

There were too many posts where I wanted to "Yeah that." I'm so sorry that you feel trapped due to custody. Do you know what your wife wants long-term? Has she ever mentioned wanting a divorce or separation? Does she realy envision staying married and just living a separate life from you and your DD for the next 16 years? Secondly, if you knew you would have custody of DD, would you be happier away from her? Is she paranoid or vindictive? What do your friends or family IRL have to say? I'm guessing all of this doesn't go unnoticed.

If it was me, I would start writing everything down, and keep it somewhere secure (work). You can probably go through some of your old threads on the BBB to back-fill dates and details. I would also start trying to quietly get recommendations on excellent divorce lawyers in your community, and I would meet with one just to start getting an idea of what the divorce and custody process would be like, odds are for you getting custody, etc. Obviously if you think that your wife wants a divorce and a child-free life, maybe your road to freedom is much easier than you imagine.

I am just so sorry that you are going through this. You and your DD deserve so much better.

[american_mama]

I have never posted on your threads before, but I am sorry the parenting situation seems no better. A long time ago, I worked as a grant coordinator for mental health organization. There are support groups geared for families whose loved ones have chronic depression and mental illness, but I cannot remember the names.

A good starting point is National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (NAMI).
Find by state: http://www.nami.org/template.cfm?section=Your_Local_Nami
Helpine to find out about other resources:
http://www.nami.org/template.cfm?section=Helpline

Mental Health America (used to be National Mental Health Association)
http://www.liveyourlifewell.org/go/we-serve

Any local psychiatric hopistals, city/county psychiatric services might also know of local resources.

[doberbrat]

Just wanted to offer a hug...

[sophiesmom03]

Can't read and not post. I'm so sorry that it has come to this, Giant Bear. I've followed your posts and think you've gotten some good advice here. I hope you find peace soon, however you choose to proceed. :hug:

[crl]

I wish you had better news to share. I am sorry things are so rotten for you. Your dd is very, very lucky to have you. My Mother's mother was quite selfish and pretty cold as a mother. Her dad was awesome though. And I am forever grateful to him because he taught my mom how to be a great parent.

Catherine

[ArizonaGirl]

Giantbear, :grouphug: I just wanted to let you know that you and several others that have posted here I think of often. I frequently wonder how you are doing and am so sorry that things look so grim.

I don't have any good advice to give and you have already gotten some great advice it seems. Just don't forget that we are thinking of you and feel free to come here for advice or just to vent.

P.S. my fantasy team sucks this year too...

[wencit]

Just seeing this thread now. I'm so sorry, GB. Your daughter is incredibly lucky to have you for a father. No words of advice, just :hug:.

[daisyd]

I'm so sorry...You're such a remarkable parent. Have you sought couple's or family counseling? It might help you figure out where you want to go with this. Getting support for yourself is very important as well. Hang in there.

[TwoBees]

You know what... I think you have a hell of a shot. I agree with pp...she may not even seek custody.

:yeahthat:
Especially if she "regrets" having a child, as you noted earlier.

Sending continued :hug: and P&PTs.

[lizzywednesday]

Giantbear, you remind me so very much of my own dad that it's uncanny.

Even your wife's struggle with depression reminds me a great deal of my own mom's, though I think your wife's therapists have more skill than my mom's docs ever had.

My dad's therapist used to tell him "slow down, Superman" as a reminder that, no matter how much Dad wanted to BE Kal-El, he was only human. And it was OK to take a step back, deep breath and regroup.

Whatever happens, I really need for you to know that it's not "giving up" - it's doing what's best for YOU and for your DD. :grouphug:

[Beth24]

Giantbear,
Just wanted to let you knw I'd read your post and to send you my support and wishes for the best possible outcome, whatever you decide it is.

[Giantbear]

Thanks all again. Things came to a head last night, my wife misplaced a family heirloom made by her grandfather and lost her sh*t, crying , screaming, blaming me for it, the whole nine yards. All in front of dd. When she went back to starbucks to look for it i found it on the floor in the middle of the extra bedroom she uses for changing. When she came home, i told her enough. We either see a separate therapist and i get to meet with her therapist alone and she starts following their advice or we are done. I told her i didn't want to hear apologies anymore, they are meaningless, that she needs to change. I then asked her what she wanted and her answer was that she didn't know yet. I then told her i wanted to hear what changes she was going to make, not now, but she needed to craft a plan with her therapist. She admitted she was taking dd and myself down with her and talked about leaving us. I told her she needs to decide what she wants out of life, and if that is what she wants, then fine. But status quo can;t continue, i am sick of bearing the brunt and anger of her life and it is destroying dd.

Ever look at your life and wonder, how the hell did i get here??

And then this morning my daughter made me dance on the bed with her to Sesame Street. She really is my salvation right now. Even when she accidentlly gets me in the jewels....

[mom2binsd]

I have to wonder though...Would she even want custody??

Cindy
Mama to 3 boys...21, 6 & 3 :heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:

:yeahthat:

GiantBear, it's heartbreaking to hear this and of course because it is a woman who is rejecting her own child we find it all too hard to even fathom but it is what it is. I mean the reason we're all on this board (male or female) is because our children are so important to us and none of us can relate to way your wife is behaving.

While I can't comment on her mental health issues other than what you've shared, she is apparently able to hold a full time job, and carry on activities that benefit her (getting her nails done etc.), it's not like she's unemployed, sitting on the couch and doing nothing all day long.

I agree that you need to document all of the happenings. As a newly single parent, it's much better to be a happy single parent than an unhappy married parent. My X lives an hour away so he doesn't see the kids except every other weekend. Honestly it's not too different for me as I've been doing the parenting 90%of the time for years anyway. I dealt with someone who has depression and narcissism (he cried when he got fired from a job but not when he got caught cheating/realized I was finally ending our marriage, but then found it appropriate to continue to recieve his 80.00 month Vemma supplements/remove body hair and apply self tanner while umemployed.)

I really wonder if your wife wouldn't welcome an "easy" out of her parenting duties? And does she still want to be your wife...I wonder how much of a relationship you two can have given the situation.

I am so sorry to hear nothing has improved.

[TxCat]

Thanks all again. Things came to a head last night, my wife misplaced a family heirloom made by her grandfather and lost her sh*t, crying , screaming, blaming me for it, the whole nine yards. All in front of dd. When she went back to starbucks to look for it i found it on the floor in the middle of the extra bedroom she uses for changing. When she came home, i told her enough. We either see a separate therapist and i get to meet with her therapist alone and she starts following their advice or we are done. I told her i didn't want to hear apologies anymore, they are meaningless, that she needs to change. I then asked her what she wanted and her answer was that she didn't know yet. I then told her i wanted to hear what changes she was going to make, not now, but she needed to craft a plan with her therapist. She admitted she was taking dd and myself down with her and talked about leaving us. I told her she needs to decide what she wants out of life, and if that is what she wants, then fine. But status quo can;t continue, i am sick of bearing the brunt and anger of her life and it is destroying dd.

Ever look at your life and wonder, how the hell did i get here??

And then this morning my daughter made me dance on the bed with her to Sesame Street. She really is my salvation right now. Even when she accidentlly gets me in the jewels....


:grouphug: I just want to give you the biggest hug in the world.

I think it's great that you confronted your wife about the fact that something needs to change and hopefully got her thinking about making a proactive decision one way or the other. If it was me, I'd still take the step of meeting with an attorney, just to alleviate the fear of the unknown, get a better idea of what to expect if you need to pursue separation, divorce, and custody. In a perfect world you and your wife will be able to settle this amicably, but just in case you need to be more aggressive legally, it never hurts to be prepared.

You seem like a wonderful person - I hope so much that you find some relief and happiness soon.

[TwoBees]

I just read your update. You are such a strong, strong father GB. :hug:

[goldenpig]

:grouphug: I just want to give you the biggest hug in the world.

I think it's great that you confronted your wife about the fact that something needs to change and hopefully got her thinking about making a proactive decision one way or the other. If it was me, I'd still take the step of meeting with an attorney, just to alleviate the fear of the unknown, get a better idea of what to expect if you need to pursue separation, divorce, and custody. In a perfect world you and your wife will be able to settle this amicably, but just in case you need to be more aggressive legally, it never hurts to be prepared.

You seem like a wonderful person - I hope so much that you find some relief and happiness soon.


I just read your update. You are such a strong, strong father GB. :hug:

:yeahthat::yeahthat:
:hug: Your daughter is so lucky to have you as a father.

[BDKmom]

And then this morning my daughter made me dance on the bed with her to Sesame Street. She really is my salvation right now. Even when she accidentlly gets me in the jewels....

Looks like you know what really matters in life. I hope, along with everyone else here, that you can find the right path for you and your DD through all of this. We are all rooting for you and your DD. It is very heartwarming to know that there are dads like you out there. Also makes me thankful for my own DH, who, like you, knows how to love his kids and support his wife. I'm sorry that your DW hasn't made the progress that you had hoped for. My thoughts and prayers are with your family as you navigate this difficult time.

[twowhat?]

Thanks all again. Things came to a head last night, my wife misplaced a family heirloom made by her grandfather and lost her sh*t, crying , screaming, blaming me for it, the whole nine yards. All in front of dd. When she went back to starbucks to look for it i found it on the floor in the middle of the extra bedroom she uses for changing. When she came home, i told her enough. We either see a separate therapist and i get to meet with her therapist alone and she starts following their advice or we are done. I told her i didn't want to hear apologies anymore, they are meaningless, that she needs to change. I then asked her what she wanted and her answer was that she didn't know yet. I then told her i wanted to hear what changes she was going to make, not now, but she needed to craft a plan with her therapist. She admitted she was taking dd and myself down with her and talked about leaving us. I told her she needs to decide what she wants out of life, and if that is what she wants, then fine. But status quo can;t continue, i am sick of bearing the brunt and anger of her life and it is destroying dd.

Ever look at your life and wonder, how the hell did i get here??

And then this morning my daughter made me dance on the bed with her to Sesame Street. She really is my salvation right now. Even when she accidentlly gets me in the jewels....

I'm really sorry:( I hope this is the start of moving forward towards something better. For good.

[daisysmom]

If it was me, I'd still take the step of meeting with an attorney, just to alleviate the fear of the unknown, get a better idea of what to expect if you need to pursue separation, divorce, and custody. In a perfect world you and your wife will be able to settle this amicably, but just in case you need to be more aggressive legally, it never hurts to be prepared.
.

I agree.

And I would remind your wife tonight, as things have cooled down, her agreement to have you meet with the therapist and have some joint therapy, and agree to a timetable for this. When things calm down and feel "normal" again, she might retract.

We all lose our cool in front of our kids from time to time - but it sounds like your wife doesn't take any responsibility for the family. While I am primarily in charge of our DD's bedtime routine, my DH is walking the dog and cleaning up the kitchen, getting all dishes in the washer, getting all of DD's art work/school stuff situated from that day and ready for the next. And when he does the bedtime routine (about 30% of the time), I do the other stuff. It sounds like you do all of the DD related stuff PLUS all of the household related stuff, and your wife gets on the computer or gets nails done, has free time, etc. I would just put a timetable on her making changes. Your DD will become incredibly intuitive on these things over the next year.

[PunkyBoo]

Sometimes the biggest breakdowns are the blessings in disgiuse. You and your DD are in my prayers.

[arivecchi]

giantbear, sorry you had such a rough night, but hopefully something will come of it. I think you are absolutely 100% right to demand that things change drastically. Protect your DD. I wish my mom had had your guts and stood up to my father's verbal abuse. It's not an environment anyone should live in and kids capture and understand so much more than what we think they do. Wishing you strength and clarity as you figure out your next steps.

[blueperidot]

I am so sorry you have to deal with this- it's always such a disappointment when people are not who we want/hope/know them to be. And when it impacts your child, even worse.

I would definitely meet with an attorney, they may give you some better idea if the custody arrangement. Although it is harder for fathers, it is not unheard of, and your wife may not even want much (which of course is sad in itself).

Another thought is rather than threats and demands, just let your wife know that you want stability and a loving home for your daughter and yourself and will be proceeding to create that. If she is on board and makes changes, great, but the onus is on her now, no longer are you a team getting through this together. And FWIW, it sounds like she's trying to get you leave her so she doesn't have to be the one to make the decision. Another selfish act on her part.

Isn't it so nice, though, to have the silly dancing moments?! I try to keep those moments vividly in my head to replay during the bad times.

[hellokitty]

GB, I'm sorry that there was the big blow up last night, but I am sure it has been a long time coming Hopefully, it will force her to do something instead of being stagnant. Best of luck, I'm hopeful for you that this is the push needed for you and your wife toward change as to what is best for everyone, not just herself. Big hugs!

[elbenn]

I'm sorry to hear your update. But you dancing with your DD to sesame street is so sweet. You sound like such a loving father. I hope things start improving for you.

[AnnieW625]

lots of prayers for your family.

[DietCokeLover]

GB, your strength of character is inspiring. Your DD's future spouse has a bar set incredibly high to measure up to.

Wishing you all the best.

[KDsMommy]

Thinking of you GB. Your daughter is one lucky little girl to have you!

[wendibird22]

GB, I am so sorry to hear that these issues with your wife are continuing. I want to scream at her through the computer, "Get your sh$t together woman!" But, maybe in order to do that she needs to be completely on her own. Your daughter is so lucky to have an amazing father.

[hopeful_mama]

Sometimes the biggest breakdowns are the blessings in disgiuse.

:yeahthat: I hope this was a turning point to a better future (whatever that may look like) for you and your DD, and ideally your DW too. I agree with others that it would still be good to meet at least once with an attorney, get an idea of what things to keep in mind should you go down that path, while you still have plenty of time to mull it all over.

I feel such sympathy for all three of you. Pre-kids I had problems like your DW and this was my biggest fear, that once I had kids this is how we would end up, I know my DH would do as wonderful a job as you are at raising DD in spite of problems, and at supporting me as best he was able (and you don't talk about this part as much but it sounds like you've really tried so hard there as well), but it's so sad to see someone have to choose between their spouse and child. And it's easy to say that she's the one who made the choice, and there's certainly some truth to that, but she sounds so out of control and not herself right now that it doesn't feel like she's made any choices other than to try to hide from the painful parts of life.

I hope you all find some peace. My best wishes to you all. :grouphug:

[BabbyO]

GB, I am so sorry to hear that these issues with your wife are continuing. I want to scream at her through the computer, "Get your sh$t together woman!" But, maybe in order to do that she needs to be completely on her own. Your daughter is so lucky to have an amazing father.

:yeahthat: This a thousand times! And thank you for reminding me what an awesome spouse I have and a great daddy my kids have. I will pray for strenght for you and your DD.

No fantasy team...but my team sucks this year. Glad your daughter can bring joy to your life so effortlessly. They are our blessings!

[stinkyfeet]

I'm so sorry your wife is that way. Your daughter is very lucky to have a dedicated parent like you in her life.

I hope your wife wakes uo one day and finally appreciates what she has.

If she doesn't, I hope you two can figure things out. :hug:

[SkyrMommy]

And then this morning my daughter made me dance on the bed with her to Sesame Street. She really is my salvation right now. Even when she accidentlly gets me in the jewels....

Those moments are the ones to hold on tight to... the bright spots in life!


Sometimes the biggest breakdowns are the blessings in disgiuse. You and your DD are in my prayers.

Thinking of you and sending many P&PTs as life moves forward for you and your family. I hope that things will settle out for you and your daughter, she is blessed to have you and you her... :hug:

[Fairy]

I am so sorry it's come to this. But you hav to do what's best for your daughter. It sounds to me like you're a wonderful father, and she's so lucky to have you. And you're lucky to have her! You have each other. A family is what you say it is, and you and your daughter sound alot better off as a family of 2 engaged people than a family of 3 where one of the people is noticeably NOT engaged. The latter will only damage your DD.

Be strong. Get the counselling you need. Get divorced if that's the answer and file for the proper custody, whatever that means. Or stay married if she improves. But whatever you do, stay strong. You're holding up so well. Come here, we'll support you.

[endlessheather]

I've read your posts in the past and always thought what an amazing man you are for trying to help your wife and keep your daughter's life as normal as possible. She is a lucky little girl to have a dad that cherishes her as much as you do.

That being said, kids understand more than you know. I respect that you are really wanting to help your wife and make things in your family better but at some point you do need to look at your own happiness too. My parents fought a lot when I was younger and while it was behind closed doors I heard it all and remember it very clearly today. My mom yelled that she didn't want my brother and I. I'll never ever forget those words and I now know that they were out of anger but I still remember. My parents divorced and my dad got custody of us. Later she challenged the custody and there was a battle, he won again. I'm leaving out a lot of details (my mom has been on depression meds in the past too) but basically I'm trying to tell you that my dad won because he had our best intentions in mind, he was the one that wanted us and had the best intentions for us.

I don't think you should be afraid of custody if that is the life change you want to go with. I think eventually you will have to figure out how to make yourself happy and provide something stable for your daughter. Your wife needs to soul search and find her happiness too. Maybe that is as a family or maybe that is living a life where she can have her freedom. Who knows what the answer is. :) You just seem like a genuinely nice and loving family guy that only wants the best for everyone but you do need to take care of yourself too. :)

[stefani]

Thanks all again. Things came to a head last night, my wife misplaced a family heirloom made by her grandfather and lost her sh*t, crying , screaming, blaming me for it, the whole nine yards. All in front of dd. When she went back to starbucks to look for it i found it on the floor in the middle of the extra bedroom she uses for changing. When she came home, i told her enough. We either see a separate therapist and i get to meet with her therapist alone and she starts following their advice or we are done. I told her i didn't want to hear apologies anymore, they are meaningless, that she needs to change. I then asked her what she wanted and her answer was that she didn't know yet. I then told her i wanted to hear what changes she was going to make, not now, but she needed to craft a plan with her therapist. She admitted she was taking dd and myself down with her and talked about leaving us. I told her she needs to decide what she wants out of life, and if that is what she wants, then fine. But status quo can;t continue, i am sick of bearing the brunt and anger of her life and it is destroying dd.

Ever look at your life and wonder, how the hell did i get here??

And then this morning my daughter made me dance on the bed with her to Sesame Street. She really is my salvation right now. Even when she accidentlly gets me in the jewels....


:grouphug: GiantBear... Just as your DD is your salvation right now, you are also DD's salvation. Whichever path your family end up taking, may it all be for the better.

[infomama]

We're here for you GB. :hug:

[larig]

Just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of bbbers in your corner. Mental illness can be a horrible thing for a family to endure. You're right to draw a line.

[jacksmomtobe]

A good friend is going through a divorce and part of your story reminds me of hers. Her soon to be ex has ADHD and narcism and now suspected drug use. She is the primary care giver and the primary bread winner. Her husband did little for the kids and was really another child for my friend. She really has had her eyes opened throughout the process. Multiple babysitters wrote about how they would work extra hours because they did not feel comfortable leaving her kids (3 boys 9,8 &6) with their Dad. She had no idea how some of the sitters were covering for him. She tried to take the high road but now is covering for their Dad less and realizing that she needs to look out for herself and her kids. She could not believe what her life had turned into. She is still working things out with the divorce and custody (her hubby must have his visits supervised by people my friend has approved of) and though she feels like she has been through hell she is relieved that she has started to move on and change her life for the better.

GB you have tried so hard to make it work. I really think your wife is looking for an out. I will reiterate what other posters have said one good parent is better than having two parents with one being toxic. My parents are divorced and it was so much better than living in tension. You have worked so hard to cover for your wife. Kids figure out the truth in the end. You and your daughter need to be happy and living a life with such an erratic presence is no good for you or your daughter. You have recently given your wife the opportunity to change the situation if she does not take advantage of that then you shoukd have no regrets since you have given this situation your all. I think most would have already thrown in the towel.

[lovin2shop]

GB, I'm so sorry that your family is having to go through this rough time! I have a male friend that was recently in a similar situation, and did go through with a divorce. I'm not sure if all of this relates to your situation, but I'll describe his full situation in case it helps.

My friend met with counselor after counselor, and also met with many divorce lawyers before he decided to file. The advice that he got was that he should be the one to file because his wife was putting his daughter in harm's way (through mild neglect and emotional outbursts), and the Dad was seen as the responsible one for getting her out of a bad situation. My friend originally did not want to be the one to file, but he did realize that his wife would probably never do it and would just continue to act out until he did.

Although he wanted full custody, his attorneys advised him to seek joint custody. The wife had a strong need to project good mothering skills to the outside world and would have fought him tooth and nail to preserve at least joint custody. But, in reality, she wanted very little to do with actually raising her daughter, was more into the appearance of it. So, they settled on a custody schedule, and actually went through mediation rather than court to do so. The way that it worked out for him though, is that the times that the wife had custody worked out to be early in the mornings, and also included Friday and Saturday nights. The father has right of first refusal if the mom cannot watch their DD. Because the wife is not an early riser and is very social, the Dad ends up with custody almost 90% of the time. He is also able to afford regular nanny care, so he always offers up care during his ex's visits for peace of mind. It is irritating to him that the mom is constantly late, misses her times, and this will become a problem once the daughter is old enough to understand. But, his attorney told him that full custody was just not going to happen unless he could out an out prove that there was physical abuse or extreme substance abuse while in the presence of the child. I'm sure this varies from state to state, however.

So, all in all, it was a very difficult time, but in the end, he was able to finesse an arrangement that works to his advantage. Again, not sure how helpful this is, but wanted to put it out there in case it helps in any way, and also just so you know, you are definitely not alone in this struggle!

[joonbug]

No advice here, just sending hugs. Have read your previous posts and my heart is breaking for your DD, she's so very lucky to have you in her life. Sending prayers you'll find the strength you need to do what's best for you Guys!

[boilermakermom]

No advice for you, but sending huge and prayers for you and your family.

[StantonHyde]

[QUOTE=Giantbear;3616613] I told her i didn't want to hear apologies anymore, they are meaningless, that she needs to change. I then asked her what she wanted and her answer was that she didn't know yet. I then told her i wanted to hear what changes she was going to make, not now, but she needed to craft a plan with her therapist. She admitted she was taking dd and myself down with her and talked about leaving us. I told her she needs to decide what she wants out of life, and if that is what she wants, then fine. But status quo can;t continue, i am sick of bearing the brunt and anger of her life and it is destroying dd.[QUOTE]

Your comment about DW needing to follow therapist's advice really hit home. There is mental illness and then there is just being a jerk. If she was following the advice and really trying to change, you wouldn't be writing this email. She would be getting a handle (gradually) on her issues/anger etc. She would be gradually growing closer to DD. But she is CHOOSING not to do this. I realize that when someone is depresed etc. they don't make the best choices. But even people who are in the depths of suicidal depression can and do take steps to claw their way back into the world. They choose to get better instead of staying stuck in their mental illness. Your wife may well have a narcisstic personality disorder in addition to whatever else is going on. There really is no treating those people unless they hit rock bottom and then realize they must change.

You also want to keep in mind that you are giving your DD a role model of taking all of that verbal abuse, of thinking that is what marriages look like, that it really is supposed to be that hellacious.

Your wife's behavior and mental illness sounds very close to what my dad has always had. I truly wish my mom had divorced him. We would all have been so much better off and he would be no worse than he already was--he would just have to find someone else to blame for his own crap. Instead she stayed with him and I have spent tons of time and money on therapy to get me out of the patterns that created.

Good luck to you. I know this is not easy or simple or anything else. :hug:

[ett]

Sending your family hugs and prayers. Your DD is very lucky to have such a wonderful father.

[oneplustwo]

GB, I'm still trying to figure out how your posts have me in tears and laughing out loud at the same time (that would be the update and dancing/nuts comment). You are such a good father and you've been holding it together for your family for so long. PPs have had such good advice and thoughts for you, all that's left for me to say is I will be thinking of you and wishing you lots of luck as you figure out what's best for you and DD.

[tmahanes]

GB, I'm still trying to figure out how your posts have me in tears and laughing out loud at the same time (that would be the update and dancing/nuts comment). You are such a good father and you've been holding it together for your family for so long. PPs have had such good advice and thoughts for you, all that's left for me to say is I will be thinking of you and wishing you lots of luck as you figure out what's best for you and DD.

This is exactly what i was thinking.

Hugs to you!

Sent from my DROID RAZR