Update to DD & LGH...

[ha98ed14]

UPDATE: So, I emailed DD's teacher (Mrs.A) last night to ask if she had noticed any conflict between DD and LGH. At drop off this morning, Mrs.A said yes, that DD has come in from recess crying about this multiple times. One time, LGH's teacher, Mrs.B, (the girls are in different classes) helped the girls "make up," and told LGH that it wasn't nice to say, "I don't want to be your friend anymore." Mrs.A also said that she and Mrs.B had a conversation about the situation and Mrs.B said that LGH is very bright and has a perfectionist personality and can be "not nice" to people in her own class. I'm not sure what being bright and a perfectionist has to do with being not nice, but I got the feeling that Mrs.A&B think that the two are related.

So right then, I went and got DD, and Mrs.A and I talked to her about saying, "When you say that/do that, it hurts my feelings." and then going and playing with someone else. DD said okay, but I am not sure how much is sinking in. I don't have to work the rest of this week, so I am going to pick up DD right after school and not have her go not aftercare, which is where some of the conflict between her and LGH is taking place.

I'm not blaming LGH. She is only 5. And DD is a very (overly?) sensitive child. She cannot "shake it off" when someone says hurtful things to her. She internalizes everything. I think the two of them together right now is a bad mix, but a lot can change as kids get older. DD needs to toughen up a bit and LGH needs to learn not to say those things. Obviously I cannot control either of those processes, but I am can take my DD out of the line of fire.

___________________________

Turns out that maybe the Highpower girl may not be such a nice friend/playmate to my DD after all. For those who remember, we had a playdate with LittleGirl Highpower (hereafter LGH) at the beginning of the year. I realize I am not getting the full picture because DD is 5, and her perceptions of time and social cues are not 100% reliable; however, I know that she isn't making it up that LGH tells her, "We're not friends anymore." but then the next time they see each other (next recess, lunch, on-site after school care) they are friends... but then later on not friends again. Today picked up DD at aftercare, she was sad because LGH told her, "Whatever." and walked away when DD didn't want to play what LGH did. I asked her, "What did you do when she walked away?" She said, "I walked away the other direction and thought we must not be friends anymore, and I was sad." I think what is going on here is that LGH is dominant and when DD does not do what LGH wants, she tells DD they aren't friends. DD doesn't understand why LGH is friends one minute and not the next, and neither do I! What do I tell her? I knew this was coming and girls do it to each other all through school, but I had hoped it would not start in Kindergarten.

ETA: I'm looking for what to tell DD. I am NOT going to say anything to Dr. HP. It's a kid problem; I'm looking for a kid solution.

[StantonHyde]

I remember this happening to me in K. My mom explained that I should just ignore what a friend said, because we would be friends again the next day. When the friend pulled "I won't be your friend", I told her "My mom says to ignore you when you say that because...". That got her attention and she stopped pulling that crap on me. Plus I found other girls to be friends with.

My DD "circulates" friends--some girls she wasn't friendly with in K, she is friends with now. In fact, tonight she asked for a play date with 2 other girls. I said that 3 kids didn't often work out but she told me they played together all the time. "But, just so you know, "Mary" can be a bit harsh sometimes, so if she does that, don't get dramatic" :rotflmao: I asked her what she does when Mary does this--she said "We work it out ourselves or we go tell." Clearly, DD who never really had friends till K has figured this all out. Your DD will too!

[infomama]

Validate her hurt feelings, reinforce that it's important to think of people's feelings and be kind, encourage her to try to find a new friend that makes her feel good about herself and that it's OK to tell that girl that what she is doing isn't nice/hurts her feelings.

[kellij]

I missed the post where you gave her the title "high-power," but maybe that skews your perception of the event. She is 5. This is what little kids do when they are 5. They are "friends," then they are not "friends." They just use the word a lot more casually then adults do. When my DD, who is now in first, would say something similar last year, I would just say, well that wasn't very nice of her and don't make a huge deal out of it. Oh, by the way, I also heard it come up in the context of, "I'm not going to be your friend unless you give me xyz of your lunch" or "I'm not going to be your friend unless you let me cut," etc. Totally common and totally normal.

Good call on not mentioning it to the dad, that would definitely be a huge overreaction.

[123LuckyMom]

This is really normal kid behavior and not limited to girls. My DS (who was 3.5 at the time) got the "I'm not your friend anymore" dagger to the heart for the first time a while back. He cried. I empathized and said, "It sounds like that hurt your feelings very much," and talked him through it. My goal was to let him know it was normal to be upset, but also that it was not the end of the world. Sometimes people say hurtful things when they are hurt or because they are not getting their own way. Most of the time they don't mean it, but it's the only thing they know to say, and they will want to be friends again soon. I asked DS to come up with things he could say or do the next time that happened and guided him to the good ideas (like saying, "that hurt my feelings" and walking away to play with someone else). The next day, I asked him whether he had spoken to the kid. They were friends again. I think the important thing is not to let your feelings of distress over seeing your child mistreated color her perceptions of the incident. Help her feel powerful by having her feelings acknowledged but also realizing that there are things she can do to manage her emotions and take charge of the situation. Very recently, my DS has said things to me in the heat of his displeasure like, "I don't like you any more," or the very worst, "I wish I didn't have a mommy." When he says that, I say, "that hurt my feelings, because I love you so much, and I want you to want to be with me." When all is calm, I talk to him about how what he said is like when his friends tell him they don't want to be friends, and I connect the hurt he has felt to the hurt he can cause to teach him not to behave that way. This is an important experience for your DD and one that can help her very much going forward so long as you help her feel confident about herself and competent to navigate the minefield of emotions. Hugs to you and your DD. this stuff is hard!!!

[niccig]

I would emphasize her speaking up for herself like others suggested. Maybe role play with her so she can practice saying "That's not a nice thing to say. I'm going to go do x." Also encourage friendships with other kids, set up other play dates. If she has a wide circle of friends, she can go and play what she wants with someone else.

This happens with boys too. I also talk it out with DS about how it hurts someone's feelings, so hopefully he won't turn around and say it to someone else.

[TwinFoxes]

This isn't what I call mean girl behavior. It just seems like five year old behavior. They dont have good communications skills, so they say inappropriate things. One of my DDs told the other one she was never speaking to her again. That lasted two minutes. I think your DD handled it really well. I wouldn't dwell on it.

[lmwbasye]

Typical 5 year old behavior. It is rare the child that doesn't do this. I don't think the girl is being mean as much as just acting her age.

[hellokitty]

This isn't what I call mean girl behavior. It just seems like five year old behavior. They dont have good communications skills, so they say inappropriate things. One of my DDs told the other one she was never speaking to her again. That lasted two minutes. I think your DD handled it really well. I wouldn't dwell on it.

:yeahthat: OP, I'm sorry that your dd had to deal with this. It is heartbreaking to see them have a falling out with a friend. Hopefully, they will make up, but even if they don't, there are plenty of other kids to befriend, so I would stress that part of the situation.

[SnuggleBuggles]

This isn't what I call mean girl behavior. It just seems like five year old behavior. They dont have good communications skills, so they say inappropriate things. One of my DDs told the other one she was never speaking to her again. That lasted two minutes. I think your DD handled it really well. I wouldn't dwell on it.

:yeahthat: don't make more out of it than it is. I've seen that plenty and its a normal phase.

[georgiegirl]

Totally normal. My dd (6) has this sort of thing come up at recess all of the time. Dd wants to play with a certain girl, then another girl comes up and wants to play with them, result is someone gets left out, and someone says "you're not my friend anymore." It often has something to do with the girls not wanting to play the same thing.

I've told dd that if someone is hurting her feelings by saying something like that to tell them, "that hurts my feelings," and go find someone else to play with. I've also emphasized that the other kids probably don't mean to hurt your feelings and I try to use an example where dd may have inadvertently hurt someone's feelings.

[daisysmom]

Piling on here too - my DD (also an only) has had this happen more in K this year too. At first I got pretty distressed about it, and by doing so, I think I made the situation worse. Now we talk about "going with the flow" (which was the phrase her teacher said when she reported it to the teacher). I asked the teacher about it and he said that one of the things that K girls need to learn is to go with the flow, and he told that to my DD too. Notably he did not condemn the "mean girl." And then 2 weeks later, my DD came home saying that she gave the "mean girl" another chance (she was actually on chance 3 or 4) and now that girl wants to be friends. I have seen them interact when I have volunteered and they are very friendly now.

So like others have said - it is important that you validate your daughters feelings - I say things like "well that's a bummer" and then sometimes share a story where someone wasn't really nice to me at work, or when I was little, etc. and attribute it to that person having a bad girl. And the need to go with the flow, transition off of that, go find someone else or something else to do and be done with it.

My first heart-felt response was "oh no, my daughter is getting bullied" but I really don't think this rises to that and I have learned that by me not really making a big deal of it, she places less importance on it too. It still sucks, but it makes it easier.

[AnnieW625]

This isn't what I call mean girl behavior. It just seems like five year old behavior. They dont have good communications skills, so they say inappropriate things. One of my DDs told the other one she was never speaking to her again. That lasted two minutes. I think your DD handled it really well. I wouldn't dwell on it.

:yeahthat: It has happened to DD1 a few times, and I have told her similar things as the other pps. have said. When DD1 has come home and said "X said this and said _____ and it was okay" when it really isn't and DD1 then says it at home I gently tell her it is not okay. Just a few weeks ago one of DD1's friends said she wasn't her friend anymore. DD1 was crushed and we talked about it, the next day the friend wrote her a letter and said she was sorry. The key with that incident and why it became a non issue was that DD brought it up with me before her friend gave her the sorry note. I ended up talking with the girl's mom about it as well and the mom told me she knows her daughter can be a pain.

I would be much more concerned if push and shoving and or real name calling about your how your DD dresses or how she does her hair (not saying there is anything wrong with how she dresses) or just someone being mean to her, which doesn't seem like the case here.

Good luck.

[JBaxter]

This isn't what I call mean girl behavior. It just seems like five year old behavior. They dont have good communications skills, so they say inappropriate things. One of my DDs told the other one she was never speaking to her again. That lasted two minutes. I think your DD handled it really well. I wouldn't dwell on it.

I have boys and it is the same for them too. Its very normal in that age group and its one of those learning things for both parties.

[misshollygolightly]

I have boys and it is the same for them too. Its very normal in that age group and its one of those learning things for both parties.

I agree. My son is 4 and this has been happening some in his preschool class lately. I think mostly it's because kids this age don't always have the vocabularies to express the complex idea that they don't want to play game X right now (or with friend A or B) for whatever reason. I know my son always wants to play puppy dogs, and lately his best friend (a girl) has been telling him she doesn't want to play with him, they're not friends, etc. He was pretty upset about it, but he and I talked things over and it became clear that she was probably tired of him always picking what they played and always playing the same thing and she wanted a change. And of course they're back to being friends now.

[JBaxter]

Honestly I think we need to give kids a break they are just CHILDREN and should not be held to adult standards or even teen standards. Their brains just dont process things the same way. They focus on the moment and at that moment the child didn't want to be friends so thats what she verbalized. Now at 10 , 11 ,12 the thought process is more purposeful and would be taken differently.

[maestramommy]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is common for the age, just because some kids are just less flexible. Dora is like that. At home when Dh plays with her and one other sister she is very insistent on how they play and is always telling the younger sister what to do. Last night something must've happened and Dh told Dora that if she wants to play something she has to make it fun for the other person because otherwise her sister won't want to play, and will just sheer off, which is what Arwyn did last night. Sometimes that means asking her sister what SHE wants to do, not always insisting on her own way. And he pointed out that Dora probably does like do this in school with her classmates does she? Because if she did pretty soon no one would want to play with her.

I also think that kids this age might not have full command of the language and sometimes "being friends" is the only way they can express "want to play with you today." Which can change from day to day. I get that HPG might be dominant, and feel that if she can't get her own way, then she doesn't want to play. I've known older kids, even HS kids like that, seriously.

In this case maybe steer your DD to another playmate. Or give her a script, like, "okay this time we can do it your way, then I want to do it my way. If we can't take turns then *I* don't want to play with you." Which sounds mean, but it's just standing up for herself. I do realize it's a mouthful for a 5yo though. My 5yo could probably not pull it off. but she would just sheer off anyway:p

I remember early this year Dora came home totally grumpy and devolved until bedtime. It was ugly. Dh probed and found that day no one wanted to play with her. Not even the boys. Who knows why?? He gave her some suggestions on how to ask someone to play and told her sometimes people just don't want to play, it doesn't mean they don't like you. The next evening we asked if she played with anyone and she said yes. These little dramas happen every day I'm sure, but I don't think it's anything to get excited about.

[lfp2n]

I agree its just the age, but sympathize because as a parent its really hard to hear about it! Ive also seen that DD (9) is just never the dominant friend in a friendship. All the way through elementary school she has had lots of friends, but it seems like the other friend not her, gets to make the decision of who they play with, it maybe her or maybe they latch onto someone else. I just remind her that she can always walk away and play with someone else if they aren't being friendly- but that's easier said than done and is often a source of sadness :(

[AnnieW625]

Honestly I think we need to give kids a break they are just CHILDREN and should not be held to adult standards or even teen standards. Their brains just dont process things the same way. They focus on the moment and at that moment the child didn't want to be friends so thats what she verbalized. Now at 10 , 11 ,12 the thought process is more purposeful and would be taken differently.

very well said. I often think ESP. if anxiety is present in parents we tend to over analyze anytime something even remotely normal like X not being friends with Z one day because she is being friends with M first, which IME is a very typical child like behavior. As a kid I was the odd man out a lot and sometimes it was hard, but it did teach me to be very independent and by the time I was 7 or 8 I had no issues standing up for myself. I am not an overly anxious person although there are times as a 35 yr. old I still get nervous thinking about what people think about me or who I might make friends with.

[ha98ed14]

I agree its just the age, but sympathize because as a parent its really hard to hear about it! Ive also seen that DD (9) is just never the dominant friend in a friendship. All the way through elementary school she has had lots of friends, but it seems like the other friend not her, gets to make the decision of who they play with, it maybe her or maybe they latch onto someone else. I just remind her that she can always walk away and play with someone else if they aren't being friendly- but that's easier said than done and is often a source of sadness :(

Thanks for this. I think this will be DD too. I met another mom at the post office who lives in my neighborhood, although her DD goes to a different school. (Ironically one of the parents is also a professor, like the HighPowers! Seems to be a theme!) So we are going to set up a playdate. Maybe having another friend separate from school will "dilute" the power that DD ascribes to LGH in her head.

[AnnieW625]

Thanks for the update. I like that the teachers pulled together to work with both of the girls. Good luck. My DD sometimes internalizes as well, but I can usually tell when it is really bad because her attitude changes.

I was never a dominant friend either.

[squimp]

I asked my 3rd grader about this at breakfast. She told me no one said that to her in Kindergarten or 1st grade - I asked her because I do not remember hearing this either. So I guess from my experience it's not typical. Her teacher played a huge role though in making it a priority for everyone to get along, and I'm glad your DD's teachers have noticed and are working on this. That would make me feel a lot better, and I would gently keep in touch with the teachers on this. Starting discussions about the importance of getting along with other kids, speaking up for yourself and choosing good friends is definitely something to start talking about now. We love the American Girl books on friends, and for me, I like "Little girls can be mean".

[maestramommy]

Just read your OP but I think what you've done is probably for the best. It's good you can pick up your DD after school this week. No other solutions but I agree that the two of them are probably not a good mix right now.

[LizLemon]

Thanks for this. I think this will be DD too. I met another mom at the post office who lives in my neighborhood, although her DD goes to a different school. (Ironically one of the parents is also a professor, like the HighPowers! Seems to be a theme!) So we are going to set up a playdate. Maybe having another friend separate from school will "dilute" the power that DD ascribes to LGH in her head.
I agree with many of the previous posters that this seems like typical little girl behavior.

The other thing I was thinking as I was reading through this, but do you think that part of LGH's power over your daughter could be coming from you? By that, I mean that I think you've posted here before, I believe, about wanting to have a relationship with the LGH family and it being a good social match (I apologize if I'm getting the details wrong). DD seems like a sweet, sensitive kid and maybe part of LGH's influence over her could be due to not just friendship but also her sense of wanting to make mom happy, too? I think it it is amazing how much even young kids can pick up - perhaps even the 'Highpower' sentiment in terms of what you perceive as the power differential between the two families?