Boy Scouts "decades of abuse"

[pomegranate]

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Decades-of-abuse-of-Boy-Scouts-detailed-3962637.php

I'm shocked! Reminds me of the Catholic church abuses. I was thinking of getting DS into boy scouts when he's a little older.

[Aishe]

The LA Times did an expose on this a few weeks ago. It's quite horrifying.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-boyscouts-20120805-m,0,5822319.story

[belovedgandp]

Yes, the coverage about a month ago was some of the most comprehensive I've seen in years. There have been bit pieces floating around for several years but nothing as all encompassing as it.

[wellyes]

What's really shocking about this story is how little attention it's getting. The reaction is "oh, that's terrible" with a shrug. There was more outrage about Jerry Sandusky. This is 125+ Jerry Sanduskys.

[Trigglet]

Sad and appalling, but not surprising to me. No son of mine will ever be a scout.

[ellies mom]

What's really shocking about this story is how little attention it's getting. The reaction is "oh, that's terrible" with a shrug. There was more outrage about Jerry Sandusky. This is 125+ Jerry Sanduskys.

I'm going to guess that it isn't getting a lot of attention because no one is really entirely surprised. They may be shocked by the scope but the issue has been hinted and talked about for the last several years. You'd have to have been living under a rock to not have heard about pedophile scout leaders. I think most people are hearing this as confirmation of something they've known about or seeing it as the final report of an on-going investigation.

[g-mama]

Sad and appalling, but not surprising to me. No son of mine will ever be a scout.

:yeahthat: My dh, in particular, has always felt adamant about this for as long as I have known him. We are Catholic and we will not let our boys serve as altar boys either.

[maestramommy]

I'm going to guess that it isn't getting a lot of attention because no one is really entirely surprised. They may be shocked by the scope but the issue has been hinted and talked about for the last several years. You'd have to have been living under a rock to not have heard about pedophile scout leaders. I think most people are hearing this as confirmation of something they've known about or seeing it as the final report of an on-going investigation.

Yup. I've heard stories here and there for years.

[maestramommy]

:yeahthat: My dh, in particular, has always felt adamant about this for as long as I have known him. We are Catholic and we will not let our boys serve as altar boys either.

and


Originally Posted by Trigglet http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/images/buttons2/viewpost.gif (http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=3625584#post3625584)
Sad and appalling, but not surprising to me. No son of mine will ever be a scout.


this to me is the saddest part of the whole mess. Families join these organizations with a reasonable expectation of safety for their kids, and they are betrayed. Even if, as one expert on child abuse said, most abuse occurs within families or between family friends, it wouldn't make me feel better if I was a member.

I heard today that the scouts now have new policies in place, like background checks for all adult volunteers and mandatory reporter. Really? I cannot believe they didn't have these things in place ages ago. It should've been obvious.

[sariana]

There also are policies about who can be with the boys. No adult can ever be alone with one Scout, for example. Only a parent can share a tent with a boy. I don't remember all the rules, but there are several in place now. Still, it is up to each unit to ensure that these rules are enforced.

[g-mama]

I heard today that the scouts now have new policies in place, like background checks for all adult volunteers and mandatory reporter. Really? I cannot believe they didn't have these things in place ages ago. It should've been obvious.

Seriously. My oldest ds has a friend who is a Scout and his dad is a leader. They invited my ds to go camping with them this past spring even though he's not a Scout. Dh and I were initially concerned, but we have known the family for years (why does that sound so irrelevant?) but we did let him when they told us that there is a rule that the men must sleep in a separate tent from the boys, so it would be just ds and his buddy. I was glad to hear that at least that rule was in place, but it only lessens the chances of molestation, it doesn't make it impossible.

[dogmom]

I think keeping this information away from the public for this long is disgraceful.

I do think that people don't understand how skilled some of these pedophiles are, at least the ones that can operate so well for so many years in these organizations until they are found out. I found this article from Malcolm Gladwell very enlightening, in a sort of queasy way.

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2012/09/24/120924crat_atlarge_gladwell

[karstmama]

it's annoying to me that scouts have all this hoopla about not allowing gay men to associate, but didn't do anything about pedophiles. to me, these are *not* the same groups of men. men who are turned on by adults, whether men or women, are not pedophiles. (not saying it's never ever happened, but just the definition.) so i think the gay men thing is a smoke screen of fake concern to draw attention away from the true troubles they've been trying to hide for decades.

[hillview]

What's really shocking about this story is how little attention it's getting. The reaction is "oh, that's terrible" with a shrug. There was more outrage about Jerry Sandusky. This is 125+ Jerry Sanduskys.
:yeahthat:

[queenmama]

There also are policies about who can be with the boys. No adult can ever be alone with one Scout, for example. Only a parent can share a tent with a boy. I don't remember all the rules, but there are several in place now. Still, it is up to each unit to ensure that these rules are enforced.

My son is a Boy Scout (he started as a Cub 6 years ago) and I can confirm this. Our troop's policy goes one step further: NO adult -- even the Scout's own parent -- is allowed in the same tent. And there is always a "two-deep" rule in place so that no single leader is ever alone with any boy, in a tent or in a car or anywhere.

One of our best friends has been our Cub/Scoutmaster and I have enough confidence in him to let him raise my kids should something happen to DH and me. I'm reasonably comfortable with DS being around the other leaders, but he will not go on any camping trips without either Scoutmaster or Daddy present, just to be on the safe side.

I don't think I'd allow him to be a part of the organization if I wasn't close to his leader.

[inmypjs]

This is truly awful. I just read the story to my DH who is my son's Scout den leader. There are currently a lot of safeguards in place as others have mentioned. We are happy with his involvement in Scouts and don't plan to discontinue it.

I view this as further evidence that child molesters look and act like "normal" people and gravitate toward organizations and professions that provide them access to children, such as schools, churches, kids clubs, etc. As parents we must be vigilant. But I don't believe not allowing kids to participate in things they would enjoy is the answer, at least not for us.

[Trigglet]

But I don't believe not allowing kids to participate in things they would enjoy is the answer, at least not for us.

I won't allow my son to participate in the Boy Scouts not because of the off-chance of some pervert having infiltrated the organization, but because of the systematic covering up and denying of the problem, the frankly Dickensian attitude towards gay people and the religious aspects of the Scouting movement. Clearly there is a chance that anywhere there are children there will also be predators, but it seems to me a much bigger, systemic problem in the Scouts that they have signally failed to address until forced to. That does not speak to me of an organisation I could have any faith in to keep my son safe and teach him lessons I can endorse.

[speo]

I won't allow my son to participate in the Boy Scouts not because of the off-chance of some pervert having infiltrated the organization, but because of the systematic covering up and denying of the problem, the frankly Dickensian attitude towards gay people and the religious aspects of the Scouting movement. Clearly there is a chance that anywhere there are children there will also be predators, but it seems to me a much bigger, systemic problem in the Scouts that they have signally failed to address until forced to. That does not speak to me of an organisation I could have any faith in to keep my son safe and teach him lessons I can endorse.

:yeahthat: I largely am not allowing my son to participate in BS because of their policies on religion and gays. But the pedophilia and cover up is yet another real reason to not let him participate. I just cannot support the organization for many reasons.

[kellij]

Horrible!! My DS is a boy scout, in 2nd grade. So far it's been great. He has a wonderful time and he's kind of a little socially awkward and usually likes to play with girls, like his sister, so we love for him to get to spend some time with boys. The parents are encouraged to even stay at the meetings, which also take place at the school. We've never done any camping trips, so I don't know about that but frankly, I don't feel comfortable with him going camping where DH can't be in the same tent to keep an eye on him. It's just so sad that there are so many creepy people.

[wellyes]

When the Catholic church had its big coverup, I thought it had - in part - to do with the special role of priests. Or anyone who has taken part in the sacrament Holy Orders. Not to justify child rape, just - these men are heroes, leaders, spiritual guides. Perhaps there was an inclination to protect them, or make excuses, or turn a blind eye, based on their special and elevated role. But the fact that pedophilia coverup was widespread among random scouting volunteers ... I don't get it at all. So many people had to fail to make the simple, obvious choice to protect a child from their own neighborhood. In order to protect scout leaders? It's crazy, and just defies explanation. It is terrible.

[Globetrotter]

This can happen in any organization, but I am appalled at the way they are handling this situation with a cover-up. Between this and their stance on gays, I have lost respect for BS. Too bad because I think the program has many merits.

[elliput]

When the Catholic church had its big coverup, I thought it had - in part - to do with the special role of priests. Or anyone who has taken part in the sacrament Holy Orders. Not to justify child rape, just - these men are heroes, leaders, spiritual guides. Perhaps there was an inclination to protect them, or make excuses, or turn a blind eye, based on their special and elevated role. But the fact that pedophilia coverup was widespread among random scouting volunteers ... I don't get it at all. So many people had to fail to make the simple, obvious choice to protect a child from their own neighborhood. In order to protect scout leaders? It's crazy, and just defies explanation. It is terrible.
The organization was not concerned about protecting the men, that was just a side benefit. The cover-ups were to protect the good name of the BSA. They were more worried about bad press than the boys being abused.

[sste]

Let me be clear this is not an argument in favor of pedophilia or trying to dismiss in *any way* the harm to the victims.

However, I am starting to wonder if pedophilia is a not uncommon sexual orientation - - it has been cast as some sort of rare disease, but it seems that every place it can happen it does happen in large numbers. The church, the football business, the boy scouts. Oh, overnight summer camps? Would love to see their files. Can it all be institutional mishandling and lack of protection? I doubt it. I don't think it is mostly cycle of abuse either -- I believe the majority were not sexually abused themselves. And if you look at history and even other cultures and subcultures, sex with children is a fairly common staple.

In a way, the fact that we have constructed it as a disease or a crime makes us more vulnerable because we think of it as rare and aberrant. If you think of it as a fairly common sexual orientation, I think it actually makes one more cautious.

Well, now that I have had this insight, I am off to figure out how one becomes a scout leader and to reconcile myself to the kids not doing overnight camp until they are 12 and oh being the room parent on those horrific eco-weekend school trips where you have to identify scat. Great.

[Aishe]

Let me be clear this is not an argument in favor of pedophilia or trying to dismiss in *any way* the harm to the victims.

However, I am starting to wonder if pedophilia is a not uncommon sexual orientation - - it has been cast as some sort of rare disease, but it seems that every place it can happen it does happen in large numbers. The church, the football business, the boy scouts. Oh, overnight summer camps? Would love to see their files. Can it all be institutional mishandling and lack of protection? I doubt it. I don't think it is mostly cycle of abuse either -- I believe the majority were not sexually abused themselves. And if you look at history and even other cultures and subcultures, sex with children is a fairly common staple.

In a way, the fact that we have constructed it as a disease or a crime makes us more vulnerable because we think of it as rare and aberrant. If you think of it as a fairly common sexual orientation, I think it actually makes one more cautious.

The percentage I've read is that 4% of the population has pedophilic urges. That's not such a small number in my mind. And it doesn't surprise me at all that BS would be infested with pedophiliacs. I mean, where would you want to be if you were aroused by children? With children, of course! The shocking part, of course, is the cover up, although I guess by now we shouldn't be surprised by it.

I once heard a caller on the Dan Savage podcast that I found very interesting. He was about 18, IIRC, and he admitted that he had sexual urges toward children. He did not want to act on them and he wanted to know what he could do about it. Dan Savage got an expert (maybe a psychiatrist?) to answer, and he basically recommended chemical castration - in other words, taking medication that suppresses the libido. I actually felt kind of sorry for the guy. He really did not want to be a pedophile - what a curse! - and I admired him for trying to do something about it. It would be awful to spend your life effectively neutered, but I certainly hope he went through with it.

[Naranjadia]

There's an article in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/scout-documents-identified-milwaukee-area-physician-as-molester-4b79lfb-175036431.html)about a pediatrician who was forced out of the BS in 1987 for molesting two teen boys - but he was never prosecuted, and never lost his license to practice medicine or even had any kind of review.

Just disturbing that they would sweep his actions under the rug, when he worked with children, too.

[brgnmom]

There's an article in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/scout-documents-identified-milwaukee-area-physician-as-molester-4b79lfb-175036431.html)about a pediatrician who was forced out of the BS in 1987 for molesting two teen boys - but he was never prosecuted, and never lost his license to practice medicine or even had any kind of review.

Just disturbing that they would sweep his actions under the rug, when he worked with children, too.

Thanks for the link, and thanks to the OP for posting. That is such disturbing news. I just got a flyer for my son to join the cub scouts group. We missed the introductory meeting and we were sent a reminder to join, and I've been uncertain about participating.

[babybunny]

Thanks for the link, and thanks to the OP for posting. That is such disturbing news. I just got a flyer for my son to join the cub scouts group. We missed the introductory meeting and we were sent a reminder to join, and I've been uncertain about participating.

I was a cub scout den leader last year for the first graders. I stepped down this year for health reasons. I have made a point of trying to help the new den leaders for the first grade, since I had just done that program. I also have been helping the new den leader for the second graders. Both are women. And our cub master is a woman. The third grade den leader is a woman too. All leaders must go through youth protection classes. And all cub scout activities must be done with two trained leaders present at all times. And you are warned not to be alone with Any child. AND at this age, a parent or adult partner must attend all activites with the child or they can't participate. So this is not a drop off program.

I believe that this program provides an opportunity to do many worthwhile activities with you child. Siblings are welcome to participate. In fact we have a twin sister who participates who is my best cub scout. Since no mom stepped up for that grade to do brownies, she found an outlet with cub scouts.

I have a lot of anger with the National scouting program. I have a hard time understanding the way they justified the handling of these horrendous scenarios in the past.
I could not bring myself to sell the popcorn this year, so we will return it and pay an additional activity fee of $100. Will we go all the way to boy scouts? I don't know.

I have met awesome parents of fellow cub scouts. Nothing like bonding over a night of crappy food and crappy sleeping conditions. But the boys have fun and love the activities that they would not have ever tried without scouting. I am extremely watchful of my son.

Hope that helps you consider scouting.

[hellokitty]

I was a cub scout den leader last year for the first graders. I stepped down this year for health reasons. I have made a point of trying to help the new den leaders for the first grade, since I had just done that program. I also have been helping the new den leader for the second graders. Both are women. And our cub master is a woman. The third grade den leader is a woman too. All leaders must go through youth protection classes. And all cub scout activities must be done with two trained leaders present at all times. And you are warned not to be alone with Any child. AND at this age, a parent or adult partner must attend all activites with the child or they can't participate. So this is not a drop off program.

I believe that this program provides an opportunity to do many worthwhile activities with you child. Siblings are welcome to participate. In fact we have a twin sister who participates who is my best cub scout. Since no mom stepped up for that grade to do brownies, she found an outlet with cub scouts.

I have a lot of anger with the National scouting program. I have a hard time understanding the way they justified the handling of these horrendous scenarios in the past.
I could not bring myself to sell the popcorn this year, so we will return it and pay an additional activity fee of $100. Will we go all the way to boy scouts? I don't know.

I have met awesome parents of fellow cub scouts. Nothing like bonding over a night of crappy food and crappy sleeping conditions. But the boys have fun and love the activities that they would not have ever tried without scouting. I am extremely watchful of my son.

Hope that helps you consider scouting.

:yeahthat: Not cub scout den leaders, but DH is one of the parents who is pretty much like a co-den leader. He attends everything that our sons attend. On a local level, ours has been a great experience, but yes, I also am frustrated with BSA on a national level. They are making everyone in the organization look bad. In our area, cub scouts is it. There are no other scouting options, we live in a more rural area, and I was timid about trying cub scouts, but we have found other like minded families, so it does not reflect the same thing as BSA from the national level. It is upsetting to see how the organization handled this, it sounds like ppl at the top need to resign and be replaced with new blood.

[StantonHyde]

I don't think it is mostly cycle of abuse either -- I believe the majority were not sexually abused themselves. t.

All the info I have ever seen, and the psychiatric cases I have known about (from doing chart reviews, talking to therapists etc) says that/points to sexual abuse of children is a learned behavior. That's one of the hard things with treating sex offenders--you are treating a victim and a perpetrator. I remember one kid in a treatment center who was on an outing and molested a boy in a library bathroom. The molesting child actually said, "I can't believe he made such a big deal out of it--this happens to everybody." Very chilling.