Installing in UK, etc

[flashy09]

I am getting a Cocorro for travel to England. MIL car does not have latch - I guess it's totally different system out there anyway - and I have been told to use a European or short belt path. No idea what either is, but youtube shows the european one and you must use the shoulder belt . Will the instructions be in the Combi manual or do I have to learn from youtube videos?

So that means outboard position only if using shoulder belt. Would you feel safe having the Corocco outboard with no side airbags in the car?

Also, if the seat belt does not lock, do I need lock off clips even if the seat comes with built in lock offs? That doesn't make sense to me, but another tech from the carseat forum seemed to think so, unless I misread what she meant.

[Philly Mom]

I just started installing my britax marathon and boulevard with the shoulder belt instead of latch and I find the seat belt install to be easier. I can't speak for the Corocco, but I watched the Britax youtube videos as well as other users' videos multiple times and then attempted. Took no time at all. I have no problem with outboard use of a car seat, especially for the length of time you are going to be using it like that. With a RF convertible car seat, it is much easier for it to be outboard.

[Snow mom]

I have an older coccoro and it was recommended that it be installed with the european beltpath at that point so certain in the manual. It's basically when the shoulder belt goes around the back of the seat. I don't like the latch on the model we have so if they haven't changed it I honestly don't think you are missing out on much by not being able to use LATCH. Oh, and mine came with a pretty nifty sliding belt lockoff (not attached to the seat) although I found that on some very thin and slick seatbelts it didn't work great.

Make sure you get the seat in time to practice installing it a few times before your trip. Then you can iron out any installation details that are murky to you.

ETA: I would think installing in the middle with a lap belt would be fine if you can get a good instillation. You should be able to tether to something attached to the frame of the car and that gives you the rebound protection.

[legaleagle]

So the middle position only has a lap belt? It was very easy to use just the lap belt on the plane, not sure about cars. How old is your MIL's car? The cco is pretty easy to install with the shoulder belt, I've done it both the short and the European way. I would be ok with rf'ing outboard. Definitely practice before you do, the cco has a bit of learning curve to it.

[flashy09]

So the middle position only has a lap belt? It was very easy to use just the lap belt on the plane, not sure about cars. How old is your MIL's car? The cco is pretty easy to install with the shoulder belt, I've done it both the short and the European way. I would be ok with rf'ing outboard. Definitely practice before you do, the cco has a bit of learning curve to it.

Well, MIL seemed to think so, but I just looked up the car (2000 Suburu Legacy Outback) and it looks like it does have a 3 point seat belt. So hopefully I can do a center installion. Is the short and European way the same thing or are they two different routes?

[Multimama]

I would be very surprised if your MIL doesn't have a shoulder belt in the middle position of her car (unless there is no belt at all in that position). Lap-only belts haven't been used in European cars in a very long time. That's why it's called the European belt path. :)

Also, how old is her car? It's very likely she has isofix in her car, which is essentially the same as LATCH and I would feel comfortable using it with your carseat's LATCH anchors, if it is available and that's your preferred installation method.

However, typically LATCH/isofix is for outboard positions only, even in US vehicles, so if you want to install in the center a seatbelt install is the way to go.

The Coccoro has lock-offs that come with it. You do not need anything else other than what comes with it (no additional locking clip). I believe the rear-facing lock-off is a separate little blue piece, but it came with the carseat. All instructions for use including routing with the European belt path should be in the manual.

Definitely practice a variety of installations ahead of time as you might find that one gets you a more secure installation than the other. The method that gets you the most secure installation (least movement at the belt path) is the best one, whether that's with LATCH/isofix, European routing or a lap-belt only.

HTH!

[legaleagle]

Is the short and European way the same thing or are they two different routes?

The short way is where the seatbelt lies against the back of the car's seat. Very similar to doing a baseless install of an infant seat. You can lock the seatbelt or use the blue lockoff thing that comes with the cco.

The European way is where the shoulder portion wraps around the back of the carseat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCFq0s1BQ2g

I believe if you're doing the European routing you don't actually need to have the belt locked any other way (just needs to be snug) but you can also lock the belt or use the lockoff. (Double check the manual on that though!)



Definitely practice a variety of installations ahead of time as you might find that one gets you a more secure installation than the other. The method that gets you the most secure installation (least movement at the belt path) is the best one, whether that's with LATCH/isofix, European routing or a lap-belt only.


:yeahthat:

[Multimama]

Just to follow up on a few things that LegalEagle said:


The short way is where the seatbelt lies against the back of the car's seat. Very similar to doing a baseless install of an infant seat. You can lock the seatbelt or use the blue lockoff thing that comes with the cco.

The short way is the one you will use on the airplane if you install rear-facing, so make sure you're familiar with it even if you plan to install with the long belt path in the car.


I believe if you're doing the European routing you don't actually need to have the belt locked any other way (just needs to be snug) but you can also lock the belt or use the lockoff. (Double check the manual on that though!)

This should be true in theory, but I know I read on carseatblog that Cybex wants you to lock the belt even if you use the European routing. European belts usually don't lock, so if Combi feels likewise you would need to use the blue thing. (This is one reason I often end up using isofix.

[flashy09]

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate all the help. This is so confusing to me, especially since I don't have the seat yet so really don't understand anything about the installation! Would a 2000 Suburu have Isofix?

I didn't know the airplane had a different way of installing the seat belt either. Do you use the separate blue lock off in the plane?

I am starting to feel like my MIL and just wish babies sat on laps!

[legaleagle]

This should be true in theory, but I know I read on carseatblog that Cybex wants you to lock the belt even if you use the European routing. European belts usually don't lock, so if Combi feels likewise you would need to use the blue thing. (This is one reason I often end up using isofix.

I just got out my cco manual (I have the original version) and Was reminded how incomprehensible it really is. They dont say anything about locking the belt with euro routing, just if it doesn't stay tight you should use the lockoff. That said, I personally would want to lock the belt some way, not rely solely on the euro routing, just for stability and not constantly jostling it.

Don't worry much about the airplane installation, it is super easy and obvious. For all variations including latch the main belt path is identical and open (you just go under the little arms).

You don't use the lockoff with a lap only belt, the belt has to be manually adjustable (like an airplane) or an automatic locking retractor.

[Multimama]

Would a 2000 Suburu have Isofix?

I don't know. I think she'd have to look at her car or in her car's owner manual. But if it were me I'd just ask her if she has a shoulder belt in her center seating position (since she probably does and can easily tell) and plan to use that and then explore isofix if that installation doesn't work and you need to try something else.


I didn't know the airplane had a different way of installing the seat belt either. Do you use the separate blue lock off in the plane?

Sorry to cause you stress, I just meant that the lap-belt installation is one you'll need for the plane anyway so you'll be ready if you did need to do it in the car. But I again highly doubt that your MIL's car has a lap belt only. (But LegalEagle is right that you wouldn't use any kind of lock-off on a lap belt.)

What kind of carseat are you using now? If it's an infant seat, the installation is probably similar with a seatbelt to what you're going to be doing with the Coccoro. If the European routing stresses you out, don't bother with it. It's not required.

[kaharris83]

One more tip about the plane install, if you end up FF her on the plane ask for a seatbelt extender. It will make getting the seat out on the other end much easier. DH installed our CCO for the first time FF in the plane in August, after the flight attendant had a meltdown and forced us to FF, and did it without an extender. It took him 20 minutes to get the seat out once we landed and he was sure it was stuck forever. If you RF you won't need the extender. Plane installs are the easiest install you'll ever do, don't stress about the plane. Just know your rights and have the printouts with you if you'd like to RF. We have been on 18 flights, most with the CCO and only once have we been challenged and I didn't have the paperwork so we just FF.

[legaleagle]

One more tip about the plane install, if you end up FF her on the plane ask for a seatbelt extender. It will make getting the seat out on the other end much easier.

Thanks so much for this tip, I definitely would not want to be wrestling with a seat for 20 minutes while trying to get off the plane.

[flashy09]

Sorry to cause you stress, I just meant that the lap-belt installation is one you'll need for the plane anyway so you'll be ready if you did need to do it in the car. But I again highly doubt that your MIL's car has a lap belt only. (But LegalEagle is right that you wouldn't use any kind of lock-off on a lap belt.)

What kind of carseat are you using now? If it's an infant seat, the installation is probably similar with a seatbelt to what you're going to be doing with the Coccoro. If the European routing stresses you out, don't bother with it. It's not required.

Don't worry, you didn't cause me stress! I was just over tired and thinking the plane had a different lap belt installation than a car and I had another installation to learn!

I have a Keyfit 30 now. The only time we have done a seat belt installation was our last visit in England and it was done without a manual (didn't know there wasn't latch), in a driving rainstorm outside of Heathrow, with MIL screaming "just forget about the seat!". It was done completely wrong and luckily we did not have an accident during that trip. I think that is part of why I am so nervous about traveling ....I want all the bases covered before I go and no surprises, especially now that I have watched all the crash test videos and learned so much about carseat safety!

So when I hear about european and short belt paths and I don't even know how to a regular selt belt installation, I start to panic - but am so happy I am learning all this now and not in the parking lot! Thank you everyone for taking so much time to walk me through it and put up with my questions!