Preemptive Neighbor Issues WWYD? (Sorry long)

[bisous]

I'm moving into a duplex. It is really more like a house but the garage shares a wall with someone else and we share a lot. I will have a backyard and my neighbors will have a front yard. My future neighbors have three boys, just like I do! Two of our boys will match up age wise pretty well.

I'm excited that we will have neighbor kids to play with, but I'm concerned a little about boundaries. From what I know of my future neighbors, they are a really nice family. My DH commented that he had a good vibe from them. But I'm really new to trusting my kids to be over at homes that I'm not really, really familiar with. DS1 has never been invited to a playdate before except for cases where I am already long time family or friend. A couple of times we've met other families at the park and we've had kids over to my house--the parents are always invited to attend if they choose.

So how do I handle the inevitable desire to have "play dates" all the time? Maybe this won't happen but my kids are really social. This could have been an issue with my current neighbors but first off, my parents have known these people for a long time and I trust them. AND on top of that our kids don't actually get along very well. I wrote about it awhile ago in the bitching forum so I suppose that is a possibility here as well, that constant playdates WON'T be happening.

I am happy to have the neighbor kids come to my house and play. I'm trying to set up the home so that it will be a fun place to be for the kids. I'm not sure that I feel comfortable letting the boys be at the neighbor's house unsupervised. There are just a few things that give me pause, in addition to the fact that they are currently strangers. The biggest is that the mom is divorced and lives with her boyfriend of just one year. All the kids are hers from a previous marriage. He is a student and he works odd hours so he is home at random times during the day. My DH met him and liked him a lot, FWIW.

I hate to have suspicions or to see like I don't trust this family. I suppose it isn't so much that I don't trust them, but I'm not sure that i DO trust them.

I'm thinking maybe if I had some ground rules established from the get go it would help me avoid awkward conversations later? Like if I just let the kids play at my house and always deny them the opportunity to play at the neighbors, they are going to notice! Should I just insist on being there until I know them better? Should I just be honest about my uneasiness? Should I insist on playing outside? I really don't know the best answer!

Sorry this is so long and perhaps unclear. I'm just new to the idea of becoming friends with someone on the basis that we live near each other instead of other issues, if that makes sense.

Also, while I love the idea of the kids playing together whenever and I WANT the neighbor kids to feel comfortable here, I'm going to have a small house and I have a 1 year old that still naps in the afternoon. I wish that wasn't an issue but he's a really hard baby and needs his quiet and his sleep. So that puts a kink in things too. UGH. I just want to do the right thing.

TIA!

Jen

[BabyBearsMom]

I would not worry about it in advance. If it became an issue, I would worry about it then. It might not be an issue at all.

[bisous]

Maybe you are right. I just want to have my "philosophy" figured out. But thank you for answering.

[Canna]

Maybe invite your neighbors over for a casual BBQ/pizza night etc so you can get to know the whole family?

[truly scrumptious]

I would decide in advance what I am comfortable with. For example, you'd want neighbor kids to play at your house but what if their playtime coincides with a mealtime? What if it coincides with the baby's nap time?

Honestly I would set a clear end time for each "date" - something like - "we'd love for Johnny and Jimmy to come over an play. I'll send them home by 12:30." Or accompany your kids to their house on play dates until either that becomes the norm, or you are comfortable sending them over alone.

[bisous]

Ooh, yeah. Start and end time--that is good! Also, I don't think I mind if the neighbors want to join us for meal times (provided that is okay with their mom) but I think I want the house quiet for nap time. And I think I want my older kids here. That is usually when we do homework, reading aloud, playing games together etc.

I like the idea of a BBQ. I want to be a good neighbor and they seem really, really nice.

This is very helpful!

[LizLemon]

I guess I would be careful here. Because it sounds like you like the family, but you could easily give off major vibes of not trusting them (the anxiety is coming off your post in waves!) based on how you handle things, which would definitely jeopardize the relationship. I really like the idea of a BBQ or whole family activity. And maybe I'm being too psychologically minded here, but I would suggest maybe recognizing that part of the key is recognizing that a lot of the issue is your anxiety about the situation and not projecting that onto the other family. Maybe try to set up some clear limits with your kids, such as about expectations of knowing where they are all at times, approval before going to friends houses, etc. etc.

[TwinFoxes]

How old are the kids in question?

[bisous]

Her kids are 5 and 10.5. My kids are 5 and just 9. Our older kids are actually 2 grades apart due to birthdays, etc.

LizLemon, yeah, I think I'm looking at this the wrong way. I think part of my anxiety is just that I am used to lots of space, lots of privacy and having a neighbor that close who also happens to have lots in common with me makes me nervous. I'm just trying to figure out "neighbor" boundaries as opposed to friend boundaries and family boundaries. I'm new to this, sort of. It is hard to explain. This is a person that will be in my life in some capacity just due to proximity. My inclination is to hang back at first and then move in closer if things work out?

On the other hand, I am a little nervous about things. The boyfriend is one, the fact that the older kid is about 1.5 years older than my immature 9 year old and very computer savvy. (I'm afraid of computer safety issues in kids.) It isn't really logical. It is silly.

Thanks everyone for weighing in. I like the suggestions so far and think I need to work through my psychological issues and figure out my feelings. This is truly helpful.

[gatorsmom]

I would start off by making the rule that your boys are NEVER allowed in their house. If at some point you get to know the mom really well and she comments on this rule, you could simply say that you are afraid that your boys could break something in their house (boys can be so rough-and-tumble, can't they?) and that you want to be able to keep an eye on them. I would let all the boys play all they want together in the yard where you can watch them. Rule #2 would be that they have to stay in either the front or back yard. No wandering off until you get to know the neighborhood better.

I think it will be fantastic for your boys to have some friends readily available. And even betteR that they don't have to go far to play with them! I also think you are smart to think this out ahead of time. I'd try to have a few barbeque in the yard where the 2 families can get together ans you can get to know them better. Gl!

[new_mommy25]

I don't allow my kids to enter our neighbors' houses nor do I invite neighbor kids in. They are to play in the yard and I have pretty strict safety rules. I'm not always outside with them but I do keep an ear open.

[bisous]

REALLY?? Not inside at all? See, I'm just not used to this. I guess I'm not used to neighbors. Well, my kids DO visit my neighbors that we currently have--just not that often. My kids have already been in the neighbor's home. We met her when we were meeting the landlords the first time and the kids just went right into her house!

[MamaMolly]

I do think it is easier to start strict and then loosen as your comfort and familiarity increases. It is a lot harder to go the other direction!

FWIW I don't think you are unreasonable in your concerns. You see potential situations (the boyfriend, the older boy and computer savvy-ness) that *could* be an issue. It seems to me that you are going into this with your eyes wide open. I support and applaud you for being sensible and proactive.

[LizLemon]

I do think it is easier to start strict and then loosen as your comfort and familiarity increases. It is a lot harder to go the other direction!

FWIW I don't think you are unreasonable in your concerns. You see potential situations (the boyfriend, the older boy and computer savvy-ness) that *could* be an issue. It seems to me that you are going into this with your eyes wide open. I support and applaud you for being sensible and proactive.

I don't disagree with bisous in seeing potential situations. I work with abused and severely abused children frequently and as a consequence of that almost as a second nature see the risks in everyday life. On the flip side, I have also seen problems from parents who are too restrictive and do not allow their children appropriate developmental activities due to these fears (not saying that is anyone here, that is just the other side of the coin and something I myself try to avoid because it would be too easy to try to keep my daughter shielded from everything, which has its own detriments).

My primary point was, if I were this other family and there was this a pattern of "your kids can come to my house, but I don't want our kids going to LizLemon's house" that would not make me feel good. It would make me suspect that you didn't trust me or that something weird was going on at your house(!), and I probably wouldn't want the relationship between our kids to continue if my concerns weren't eased. Some people, I'm sure, wouldn't notice or wouldn't care. Some would.

[gatorsmom]

I agree with Mamamolly about loosening up on the rules as you get to know your neighbors. But to respond to Liz Lemon's point about insulting the neIghbors with your rules, there are some excellent reasons to keep your kids out of a stranger's house for quite a while until you know the boyfriend and you've been in their house enough times to be confident your kids will be safe there. In the meantime, as you are getting to know the mom and boyfirnd, simply explain that you don't feel confident that your children are repsonsible enough to be there without you. It's a legitimate explanantion, though not the primary one. I've been enough of these new friend/playdate situations now to know that most moms will understand that you are just being protective of the kids, not intentionally trying to insult them.

IMHO, it would be unfortunate if neighbor became insulted by your rules but I'd rather have that than have my boys exposed to porn magazines they find in the bathroom, iykwim.

[pinkflamingo]

my kids play outside... unless we are good friends, I don't let them enter casual friends' houses. He asks sometimes in front of them and the answer is no. You can play outside.

[khm]

In our (kid heavy) neighborhood, "inside" is only when BOTH sets of parents have been asked and give the OK. Most of the time, its just outside - spur of the moment play. We've been here 5 years. My daughter and my neighbors daughter are in the same grade, the same activities and are fast friends. Still, they know to only go in each other's home if they ask their respective parents.

It is kind of a boundary thing, if your house / their house is completely open, you will constantly have kids over, or will have your kids elsewhere. They really want to be with their buddies. I am completely comfortable with my kids being at many, many other parents and am also comfortable having their kids here. But, it isn't an open invite, I can (and do) say "No, we're getting ready to do something, you can play outside for 10 more minutes." or whatever. Both to my own kids or to other kids. Sometimes, it just isn't a good time, ya know?

[sntm]

Just because she lives with her boyfriend doesn't mean porn magazines everywhere. I moved in with DSO after just 7 months, which sounded really early even then but we knew, he was fantastic with DS1 and my lease was up on my condo so it was the right time. We've been together almost 3 years and only aren't married because we both had crappy divorces and don't really need the piece of paper.

I definitely agree with getting to know them to ease your worries, but I think there is the potential for her to take offense (and the excuses are likely to be transparent.) Do you let your kids do playdates without you at anyone's house?

[mom2binsd]

I think others have dealt with some concerns, but I'll just add...my XH was the worst person to have home when kids were playing, he didn't appropriately monitor what was going on...while I was working the kids ended up watching a scary video on the computer which is in the kitchen and one or our friends DD's got pretty scared and slept with her sister for a week...just because it's a boyfriend doesn't mean he's a threat/incompetent, XH proved many times that just because he's a father doesn't mean he has any common sense. I don't have a boyfriend, but if I ever do I hope none of my DC's friends would be forbidden from coming to our home if he were here.

As well, I think we can also be overly cautious, viewing unfamiliar men as a potential predator, when most abusive situations are at the hands of a family member. Don't get me wrong, I don't let DS use the men's room alone, but I'm also not going to keep him from having fun playing at other kids homes.

I can't stress enough how much my kids enjoy being at someone ELSE's home, and my friends say the same. I also remember how much fun it was being at my friends houses.

My DC's are 6 and 9, they are allowed to go over to friends to play, I know the parents, some better than others, all are classmates/teammates. They have been given guidelines as to what is allowed- whether it's if Johnny tells you he wants to show you his dad's gun/let's look up something on the internet/going into parts of the house that are private/going into the fridge****this after I found out DD was helping herself to Capri Sun at one friends house.

I think once you get to know the family, how they operate, what their schedule is like, you'll get a better feel for things and hopefully it will be the beginning of a great friendship for all involved!

[MontrealMum]

I also agree that this is a decide-as-you-go situation. I totally relate to your fears - I was in the very same boat a year ago. We had virtually no little kids close by, and playdates were a driving, prearranged affair. Also, I only have the one, so I tend to be very overprotective.

Last year, a family moved next door with a little guy about DS' age and they really hit it off. Although the neighbor boy is nearly 10 mos older than DS they are in the same grade due to cutoffs, though not at the same school (due to language). We met up a lot - both formally and informally - at the local pool this summer, and the dads often do a park "adventure" together. But honestly, I don't know that either my DS or theirs has been in either home alone. Most of the times one of the parents goes along. Mostly because we're all trying to become friends with one another as well, KWIM? FWIW, this other couple is not married - this is not unusual at all in QC - and the DH has a teen son from a previous relationship.

Maybe you need to reframe this as an opportunity for your DH and you to make new friends as well? I was very cautious on this as well because I have a lot of preconceived notions (I will not enumerate them, they're standard BBB fare). But these neighbors of ours are really neat people, and I would now trust them to keep DS safe if DH or I were not present. [Driving, that's another story. And that's my own crazy sticking point. I do not pretend that I am in any way "average" on this.]

[gatorsmom]

Just because she lives with her boyfriend doesn't mean porn magazines everywhere.

Heck NO! They could belong to the mom. :loveeyes: I still wouldn't want my kids seeing them. And Bisous wouldn't know they were there until she got to know the parents really well and had been in their house several times herself. Or either of the parents might watch questionable TV shows. If the kids are there, and they start watching, well, I wouldn't want my kids doing that either. Or the mom or boyfriend could have an older male relative that stops by to see the boys.... Heck it could be as simple as the other boys dont' listen to their mother well, tend to make a huge mess when they have friends over, and the mom comes back to a mess with her things destroyed. Now she's angry that "those neighbor boys were in her house making a mess again" and tension forms between the 2 neighbors. There are just so many things that could happen in the neighbor's house when bisous isn't supervising. Until she knows this family well, I stand by my idea of having a hard, fast rule for her boys not to enter their house. And as she gets to know them and starts communicating regularly with either mom or boyfriend, her sons could then start to go over to their friends house after they ask permission. I've done this for ages and most of the moms appreciate that my kids aren't running in and out of their house all day long dragging inside toys out, waking their napping babies/toddlers, tracking in mud and snow. And so many of them have agreed it's better to be safe than impolite.

[kijip]

Invite them over (adults too) a couple of times. Inside. See if they reciprocate your invitation and make up your mind as you get to know them.

T had never really been to other people's houses unless I was there or they were as close as family. I am cautious and also, I worry about Ts social skills quite a bit. This year at some homeschool classes he became fast friends with a little boy his same age and grade. They started playing chess during the lunch break (2x a week classes) and paired up in every class they take as study buddies. It wasn't long before they wanted to meet up to play on non-school days. So I made a point to get to know the dad while the boys were in class (he is the one who takes him to the center since he works weekends/evenings and wife works FT M-F days. Instead of hiding away with a book while waiting for classes to let out, I started plopping down next to him with my crochet basket and talked with him. I got a good, comfortable vibe. Then the new friend came over here and played (after the parents and grandma had come in to see the house) and I made a point to drop him off back at his house and duck into the house for a minute. They invited us over for dinner, we reciprocated and voila, T and his buddy have a standing alternating house hang out day. It's a blessing to both families and the boys have a tight bond over science and chess and will talk for hours. They even coordinated their Halloween costume efforts. If I was denying him this opportunity, it would hurt him in the long run. He has learned so much about friendship and is no longer sitting alone, reading and crafting away most days.

Never assume they don't have the same fears about your family. Bluntly, biological parents are just as big a risk factor as non-married romantic partners. Be cautious, be careful but don't forget that the world is mainly populated by good people.

[bisous]

Thank you. I appreciate all the tips and perspectives. Maybe they are just as wary about me--I would actually welcome this! I think my biggest fear is offending a nice family because I'm too safety oriented. Except that is actually NOT my biggest fear--my bigger fear is something happening to my kids while they are out of my control so it is a difficult balance.

DS1 has some social troubles--he has ADHD and has issues with personal space too. He also has a medical condition that makes me nervous to leave him for too long. Add it all together and we don't do a lot of drop off playdates. Usually only if I am already long time friends with the mom and our kids get along okay. Otherwise we meet at the park or really my kids don't play with that many other kids outside of family, organized activities and each other. This is a whole new world for me.

I like the idea of starting slow and getting to know them well. The boyfriend issue isn't really that problematic. I think I might only be slightly less concerned if it were the children's father as I am aware of all the statistics with biological parents. (We live in a sad world!) I think the fact that he's only known the mom for a few months coupled with the fact that he is home at unusual times (my DH by contrast is NEVER home) and there is my worry. But as a PP pointed out, the MOM could be the one with "the porn", or they could have guns, whatever.

It is best to be cautious at first and go slow.

This conversation has been REALLY helpful to me. It is helping me to figure out my true fears and they are complicated and also how I want to proceed. I want to be a good neighbor and I want my kids to have friends but letting go is hard. I appreciate all of your input so much!