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lmh2402
12-07-2012, 01:12 PM
where to begin...

1. had our first parental follow-up with behavioral psychologist since having DS meet him, and having us fill out these psychological forms - DH and I filled out without sharing our answers with each other, and teacher filled one out independently as well. psychologist reviewed results and said all three of the forms came back suggesting DS was "off the charts" for anxiety and "depression" which at his age would more accurately be a measure of irritability. He was somewhat concerningly high for hyperactivity and low for attention. In an over simplified nutshell, doctor is saying that he would unofficially diagnose DS as having an anxiety disorder that is fueled by OCD and that he might have an ADHD diagnosis in his future.

he said our "tools" for managing this are: a) behavioral strategies, and b) medication.

we started talking behavioral strategies and things to begin implementing. in the meantime, he strongly suggested getting onto a wait list for a psychiatrist to start an eval with them since it will take awhile to get in, and the awhile to complete all the eval visits. doctor is concerned that at this stage, behavioral strategies alone might not be effective with DS, and that medication might be "needed/helpful" to take the edge off and make him more willing and able to function

2. so then i called psychiatrist who called me back last night and told me her shocking fees for the consult visits and then told me before we made an appt, that we should rule out PANS/PANDAS. she gave me the name of the guy we actually had already seen. in fact, we were scheduled to have a conf call to go over the bloodwork with him last night. she said great and to call her back on mon to discuss what, if anything, was found

which brings me to...
3. had our follow-up with the PANS guy. let me preface by saying that after my post here last week re: chicken soup, many of you suggested that maybe he had a sinus infection. well, last fri night he woke up crouping. again. so i said, "enough is enough" and i dragged him back into the pedi on sat morning. she said, "i bet he has a sinus infection." so she put him on a three week course of antibiotics, a brief course of oral steroids to get the cough under control, and added nasonex to his daily regimen of medication.

fine.

yesterday was day 6 of antibiotics. yesterday afternoon, once again...he took a turn in the wrong direction. around 3pm our sitter came to tell me he "looked off." i went downstairs and sure enough, his cheeks were bright, bright red. as was one ear - always it's just one ear that turns flaming red. the rest of his face was stark white. and his voice had gotten really hoarse and he was coughing a congested cough. and of course, our pedi is on vaca for two weeks.

so i went into our call with PANS doc last night hoping that maybe we would get some answers as to what the he** is going on with him.

long story short, his titers measured three different ways, were all negative. This means either he was not exposed to strep (not possible, he definitely had positive strep cultures in the past six months0 or is a "low strep responder." lyme, lyme-co infections, ets all negative.

his pneumococcal titers were low for 4/7 serotypes. This is low for a child who received the vaccine 3 years ago. This suggests he may be a "low strep responder" and that he has PANS with a "silent strep trigger"

overall, his immune system is also borderline low - his IgG and IgA are low, his IgM is normal.

what all this means...unfortunately, i have no idea

the doctor said, "the good news is, there is nothing apparently very seriously wrong. but his immune system is definitely not as strong as it should be. and we don't know exactly why. and there isn't much that can be done at this point."

well thank you. that's just wonderful.

in the meantime, DS up again coughing all night. and woke up this morning with pretty much no voice.

i'm beyond frustrated. and worried. and sad for DS. and mad at everyone that hasn't been able to help us.

something is not right. why can't he fight off whatever it is that is ailing him?!

i just sent the PANS guy a follow-up email basically saying that we need some guidance. that how we left things isn't good enough b/c something is wrong and i don't know who else to see/seek out.

anyway, that's where we stand

if anyone has any ideas, i would love to hear them.

in the meantime, my DS is like a little old man lining up all his medicine cups each morning and night, but with unfortunately little seeming benefit

AnnieW625
12-07-2012, 01:20 PM
Thank you for the update. Lots of :grouphug: and :heartbeat: coming your way.

DietCokeLover
12-07-2012, 01:39 PM
:hug: I am sorry you have not got any solid answers. P & PTs for all of you that you get some much needed help, or a miraculous turn around for DS.

MSWR0319
12-07-2012, 02:01 PM
So sorry you don't have any solid answers yet. Are any of his daily medicines known for affecting your immune system? I see he was on steroids sort term, has he been on them longer before? Any chance that could be affecting his immune system? I know I'm grasping at straws, but just trying to come up with ideas for you.

joonbug
12-07-2012, 02:07 PM
Sorry to hear that. Having no answers when obviously 'something' must be going on is beyond frustrating (been there, done that). Sending hugs, mama.

Sweetum
12-07-2012, 02:14 PM
Hugs..sorry for you guys...
I don't understand one thing, do you know or believe all these are related? Sorry, I am not knowledgeable about pandas but is that supposed to determine a psycho somatic connection? I recently read a book on allergies and sensitivities. Maybe try exploring that if you instinctively think it is psycho somatic....sorry, not more help. Let me know if you want the name of the book. FYI, DS has Autism and I am, like a lot of moms, in the initial stages of exploring food sensitivities.

daisysmom
12-07-2012, 02:24 PM
Last year, my DH and I were evaluating possible surgery for DD for something that some called cosmetic and other called necessary (a hemangioma with an underneath growth about the size of 1/2 of a golfball on her cheek). Unlike you, we knew what the condition was, but we got conflicting advice on what to do with it (surgery, or laser, or wait until she was older).

One person made a suggestion to me that actually turned the tide, so I make it to you in hopes that it may do the same thing. This person said to me "when you ask the doctor what is his advice, phrase it by asking him what he would do if this were his child".

I took that advice and asked 2 different surgeons that way. I actually wrote it on an index card because I know that I can get wordy, and didn't want it to get lost in the mixed message. For both of them, I said "We are confused by everything you are saying. This is our only child, -- if she were your only child, what would you do personally?". Each time, each doctor sat and thought for a moment and then gave us clear and well thought out guidance.

Just a thought?

boolady
12-07-2012, 02:27 PM
Hugs..sorry for you guys...
I don't understand one thing, do you know or believe all these are related?

I was wondering the same. I can tell you without even thinking hard about several co-workers and their kids, including me, who have had recurrent sinus infections this fall, some with nasty coughs and ear infections, some without. I am finishing up a course of antibiotics right now, and I am the last person willing to take them, but couldn't take it anymore. One of my best friends' kids has basically been sick all fall with ear infections, sinuses, viral colds with coughing, croup, you name it. I think it's been a bad fall in the Northeast with the constant weather changes (you know...60-some degrees in December, then plummets down to the 20s overnight, and next week will be back to the 60s). It sounds like your son is prone to allergies, and I don't think all of the fall and leaf molds are gone yet by any means.

I'm not trying to say his conditions aren't related-- I wouldn't have any ability to know whether that's even a possibility. I just think it's possible that you're having a bad run of things happening at the same time, because I know so, so many people who've been battered by upper respiratory and sinus things this fall. No matter what, I hope things look up soon.

lmh2402
12-07-2012, 02:36 PM
it definitely has been a hard fall here for illness, but when i say he's been sick for months, i literally mean since May.

re: allergies, that is the one clear next step we're going to take - finding an awesome pedi allergist. we took DS to see one when he was somewhere between 18-24 months, and the prick tests showed no food allergies at that time, but i'd like to go back and revisit food allergens, as well as environmental.

re: longer term steroid, no we've never done more than a few days. it makes DS crazy. like crazier than his already rather crazy baseline. we grit our teeth for the short term bursts b/c it helps the croup so clearly. but we've never been told to do longer term and frankly, i'd be afraid.

thanks for the ideas so far!

any tips for an awesome pedi allergist either in NNJ or NYC?

thx

Simon
12-07-2012, 03:06 PM
We're also traveling the road of "what the heck is wrong with my kid and why can't you figure it out!?!?" It is just maddening at times. I am grateful we don't have the behavioral issues, but it is so frustrating when everything comes up as normal after every test or procedure even thought something is very clearly wrong.

Re: immune system. I'm not sure if this helps but we're going through immune works ups right now. It sounds like you already had the blood draw to look at his subclass levels and some are low but none are outright missing/absent. One of the next tests that was recommended to us uses the pneumonia vax. They give a shot of the vax and check the immune response about 3-4 weeks later with a blood draw. This gives them a sense of how the immune system is responding to a known trigger (vs. just looking at the subclasses to see what is present/absent or only knowing he is endlessly sick but not having a way to accurately gauge immune response). I'm not a medical doctor, so this is not real medical advice, only our btdt coming from a similar position.

Re: allergy testing. I would agree with you in pursuing more testing for environmental allergies. Certainly, allergies are on everyone's mind these days and ruling them in/out is helpful, although it won't highlight things at the intolerance level.

sophiesmom03
12-07-2012, 03:07 PM
Poor you and poor little guy. I am so sorry for your frustration.

mytwosons
12-07-2012, 03:52 PM
How frustrating!

Can you get him into a DAN!? The LDN really helped my son's immune system. When he was at his worst, he was always sick. When he tested postive for yeast overgrowth in his gut, I was told by the pedi that they only see those levels in people with shot immune systems - like those with AIDS.

mik8
12-07-2012, 05:04 PM
overall, his immune system is also borderline low - his IgG and IgA are low, his IgM is normal.



I'm sorry you're going through this, and it has got to be so frustrating on your part. As a Mom myself, I can empathize your frustration.

I asked DH about your immunology query since DH is a scientist (research immunologist) and has some knowledge in this field. Not knowing the full details other than the IgG, IgA, and IgM blood results, his thought is merely a hypothesis and you can take it with a grain of salt. DH mentioned that some kids can have what you call Common Variable Immunodeficiency (CVID). They have defective IgG and IgA production. These kids are very susceptible to extracellular bacterial infections. IgM would presumably be normal in these kids (which in your child's case it is). It is of unknown etiology. Patients with CVID have "marked" reduction in IgG and IgA. About half of these patients also have reduced IgM. Most patients or kids with CVID present as "sporadic" cases. If the doctor said that his immune system is "borderline low", maye the IgG and IgA are not that terribly low, so maybe the defect is not really profound and your DS will get by just fine in the long run. DH wonders if your DS may have some kind of a "mild" inherited B-cell immunodeficiency. So 3 things: 1.) he may have had this since he was born and he may have been relatively sheltered in terms of exposure to bugs until now (it's been bad in Northeast with cases of colds/flu/respiratory illnesses) Or, 2.) he may have been sick when he was little, but they're now just starting to compromise his immune system response Or, 3.) he may not have manifested much illness until now, because he has a relatively "mild" form of CVID. Some kids with mild form of this can do very well and lead a practically normal life, barring other condition.

Now that being said, I think it is a prudent step on your part to proceed with a pedi allergist consult to rule out environmental exposure factor.

I'm not sure if I'm of help at all, but thought I'd share a bit of info. Wishing your DS a speedy resolution on this matter. Hugs to you.

bisous
12-07-2012, 05:22 PM
You are in the frustrating middle portion of diagnosing your child. I'm sorry that the answers are not clear yet. It looks like you've got a couple of things still to try so you may get more clarity after you work with an allergist.

I'm sure your DS doesn't feel well. He's got a lot going on in his little body. I hope he gets healthy soon and goes on a nice mellow kick so you can have the strength and energy to best help him. It sounds like some BBB posters can provide some missing pieces of information so keep posting here. We'll keep chiming in and you know you have our support.

KDsMommy
12-07-2012, 05:46 PM
Many hugs for you and your DS.

JTsMom
12-07-2012, 06:13 PM
lmh, I think I've missed some of your posts, so I apologize if you've already talked about it- have they definitely ruled out autism at this point? It took us a long time to get to that diagnosis with DS1, and we were told several times that was NOT it, but I think if we would have had that info earlier, it might have saved us a lot of time.

:hug: I know it's frustrating, and the answers take so long to come. They're constantly tweaking DS1's labels, and I feel like we spin our wheels a LOT. But it does sound like there is progress to me. We're working on anxiety/depression right now. The meds are already making a difference, and we're nowhere near the correct dosage yet.

inmypjs
12-07-2012, 07:06 PM
Are there any online groups for PANS/PANDAS? I'm wondering if Yahoo has some? Hoping there are some parents on here who can help you interpret these tests but if not I bet there are some parents, somewhere, who have gone through this. So sorry you don't have answers and hoping you get some very soon.

sdrew99
12-07-2012, 10:19 PM
I feel for you. We are dealing with PANDAS/PANS with my 9 year old (she was dx'd by her neurologist back in March) and it is SO confusing. Her strep titers and Mycoplasma titers are both off the charts high, and have remained that way since March, despite constant antibiotics. She also has Selective IgA Deficiency....her levels are consistently below 8.

That said, controlling her anxiety and OCD became hard for everyone, and she has been on a low dose of Lexapro since July which has helped immensely. We are also having her tonsils and adenoids removed in a few weeks, to hopefully find out where the strep in her body is hiding.

((hugs))