Freedom from religion...with family....

[sunnyside]

AaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRGG GGGGGG!!!

I'm so grateful that my mother is here to help me for a bit since I just moved, have no family nearby, and am working FT with an hour twice daily day care commute....

We happen to have a Christmas Story book that my ex MIL bought for my DD. I am not religious, but am fine with my DD learning about different religions and that is why I didn't throw out the book. (Though I did throw away some religious books that I considered inappropriate for a small child.) I didn't get rid of the Christmas Story book, but I don't really want it read to her by other people, because I don't need things added, like someone reading it and then telling her that this is about a religion and that is the only thing to believe etc. I can read it to her as a story, as one of many stories, and not turn it into dogma. My mother cannot do that.

My mother KNOWS that I am not religious, and I told her that it is not her place to be teaching my DD about religion. She flat out told me that she disagrees! WTF??? I told her that she needs to stop. She started asking me how I can have a Christmas tree if I don't celebrate Christmas. I told her we like to decorate it, it's fun to get the tree, and we like to celebrate all the holidays we can, and all the fun traditions we can. So we celebrate in a secular way.

I went out for a little while last night, and when I got home I saw the book out. This morning I asked about it, and reminded my mother that we do not teach religion here and I don't want her to do that. She said that it's too late that she already did. I told her that she knows that I don't want my daughter taught about religion and she needs to respect my authority over my own daughter. She said it's her religious duty to spread the knowledge of Jesus to everyone.

But I am pretty upset. My DD is only 2.5 now, but I need to nip this crap in the bud before it continues. I know my mother is extremely religious (as she says herself), and I personally am more of an agnostic. We go to the Unitarian Church and hear about a variety of beliefs, but I don't think it is anyone's place to indoctrinate my child.

On a side note, when she got here, she told me that there were some travel challenges for my brother during the upcoming holidays because these stupid people believe the world is going to end on Dec 21st. I told her it's because of the mayan calendar, and she said, well that is stupid. I asked what she knew about the Mayans and she said nothing, that these people are just being dumb. I tried to explain to her about mayan civilization etc. I just found it so hard to even look at her.

[BabyBearsMom]

:hug: My MIL does this. She is super upset that our DDs are not baptized (I am Jewish, DH is Christian, neither of us are religious at all). So she tries to talk up a baptism to DD1 thinking if DD1 asks for one, we will give it to her. When DD1 brought it up to me, I said something out of anger that I'm not proud of :bag that was pretty derogatory about MIL and her religious beliefs. DH was upset with me for saying it, but I get really upset when she tries to indoctrinate my children. Especially when she says that they are "dirty" unless they have a baptism which really upset DD1 who is a neat freak. As a Jew, I am unbaptized too, so by default she is calling me dirty too and I don't like it one bit. So hugs and hugs.

[arivecchi]

My mother and aunt are this way. They are horrified that I am not religious and do not teach any religious beliefs to my kids. The most they do is buy books for the kids and make remarks directed at me though. I put the books away so they can read them when they are older if they'd like.

I personally would have a sit-down with my mother and read her the riot act. She would have to agree to stop disrespecting my wishes or she would not be able to spend time with my kids unsupervised. I do not want anyone teaching religious beliefs to my children for now.

Your mom had her chance to educate you with her beliefs and you have rejected them for various reasons, so now she needs to respect your course of action.

Just MHO of course, but that is a big issue for me.

[mommylamb]

Wow! I would be furious about that. Totally not her place.

As an aside, I just don't get the whole, if you're not religious why put up a tree idea. I mean, what does a tree have to do with religious Christianity anyway?

[elektra]

Ugh. That sounds so frustrating. My ILs are very religious and out of the 8 grandkids, our kids are the only ones who will not get their first communion or confirmation. 4 of the kids also go (or will go when they are old enough) to Catholic school.
DH however does not seem phased. When his 99 yo old school Catholic grandmother started riling him about our kids not being baptized, he just looked at her with a straight face and said that we were considering becoming Jews. He just completely deflects.She kind of huffed and that was that.
Everyone else in the family has been pretty respectful though and they do not try and indoctrinate our kids. THey do give us nativity figurines for Christmas but that really does not bother me and I think the birth of Jesus is a really nice story. My kids also did/do attend a preschool affiliated with an Episcopal church which I am also fine with.
I wish I could let things slide off my back like my DH does though, but I think you really have to not care what they think in order to not let the comments get to you.

But reading your DD the book after you had specifically asked her not to is pretty f'ed up. It would be the same as if you were a child and her mother were trying to read you books and teach you that another religion besides Christianity was the "right" way to go. I do not think she would accept that.

Regardless of how proven or unproven something is, when people view it as the truth, I think it is hard to accept that there could be another right way. But even if she feels that she is 100% correct in her beliefs, she has to respect you and yours.
She can pray for her soul privately (it's what my ILs do for us. :))

[wellyes]

I'd be really mad too. I am sure it went straight over your 2.5 year old's head, but it will become really confusing in a year or two.
She said it's her religious duty to spread the knowledge of Jesus to everyone.
That puts you in a terrible spot, I'm so sorry.

[mmommy]

I personally would have a sit-down with my mother and read her the riot act. She would have to agree to stop disrespecting my wishes or she would not be able to spend time with my kids unsupervised. I do not want anyone teaching religious beliefs to my children for now.

Your mom had her chance to educate you with her beliefs and you have rejected them for various reasons, so now she needs to respect your course of action.

Just MHO of course, but that is a big issue for me.

:yeahthat: Your kid, your rules.
My MIL would totally do this. When I was pregnant with DD1 she asked me what we would do if our children were visiting her and she sent them to VBS. I told her that she would no longer be able to see them. We haven't had any problems since then, but we're visiting her next week, and its the first time she'll be around our kids near Christmas, so I'm expecting some sort of strange dust-up.

[StantonHyde]

hmmmm, I might be tempted to go out and buy books (plural) explaining a variety of religious holidays. and then I would make a point of reading them to DD in front of MIL and validating each one just as I did the Christmas story. But Grandma might have a conniption..........:loveeyes:

[bisous]

Can you explain to her that as fervently as she feels that her religion is true, you feel that it is not? Sit her down and ask her how she would feel if someone taught HER child something contrary to her beliefs? How would she like that? She'd hate it! She'd never permit it. Express that you cannot permit it either. She may not agree but you have a right to live by your convictions, just as she has a right to live by hers. And YOU're the mom!

[kijip]

I get a touch of similar cr@p from my ILs and of the two of us, it is THEIR grandson/son who is a total atheist. And I grew up in a devout home while they raised him so disconnected from the church it is a stretch to call them C&E Protestants. Seriously, his knowledge of the church calendar, history or of the Bible itself was virtually nil when we married. Yet I get comments from THEM about religion. So stupid.

So I totally feel you and commiserate. No great advice, just hold your ground. Tell her that if she wants to proselytize, she can do so freely to others. But not to your family.

[sunnyside]

Thank you all so much! The support helps so much! I grew up in a seriously oppressive, shamebased environment with physical and emotional and verbal abuse. I went to great pains to look past all that and have a relationship with my family even though our values are not at all the same. When these topics come up, it is very upsetting. I don't want my daughter to experience what I did, and am doing my best to preserve her self esteem and bring her up in a way that keeps her mentally and emotionally healthy.

Logic does not work with my family and they will not understand when I talk about how they would feel if someone taught their child something they don't believe in! EEEEK!

[niccig]

Logic does not work with my family and they will not understand when I talk about how they would feel if someone taught their child something they don't believe in! EEEEK!

Then don't try logic. Tell her that when she does this again, she won't be allowed to see the grandkids. You get to decide what your DC are taught about religion, not grandma.

[sunnyside]

Then don't try logic. Tell her that when she does this again, she won't be allowed to see the grandkids. You get to decide what your DC are taught about religion, not grandma.

It's so hard for me to do this. It's hard for me to separate different things out. She flew here on her own dime to help me, since I'm a single mom and just moved. So I feel guilty putting my foot down about stuff. But you are right. Because I actually don't have to have her help me, I could hire someone. It just feels wrong to get upset with her when she's trying to help me. But I feel very strongly about letting kids be free from religious coercion so they can make their own decisions as an adult.

[MamaMolly]

It's so hard for me to do this. It's hard for me to separate different things out. She flew here on her own dime to help me, since I'm a single mom and just moved. So I feel guilty putting my foot down about stuff. But you are right. Because I actually don't have to have her help me, I could hire someone. It just feels wrong to get upset with her when she's trying to help me. But I feel very strongly about letting kids be free from religious coercion so they can make their own decisions as an adult.

Well, then this is how the conversations should start: 'Mom, I really love having you help me out with DD. I appreciate you coming on your own dime and helping me. The thing is, this really bugs me. And after some thought I've come to realize that it is a deal breaker for me. I feel rotten having to put my foot down about this one thing when you've been so great to me (to us) but it is what it is. You either abide by my rules or you will need to go home. Immediately.'

[niccig]

It's so hard for me to do this. It's hard for me to separate different things out. She flew here on her own dime to help me, since I'm a single mom and just moved. So I feel guilty putting my foot down about stuff. But you are right. Because I actually don't have to have her help me, I could hire someone. It just feels wrong to get upset with her when she's trying to help me. But I feel very strongly about letting kids be free from religious coercion so they can make their own decisions as an adult.

I understand, but in my experience with grandparents (both sides of the family) that push their opinions onto your parenting, if you don't reply immediately with what consequences will be, the precedent is set that they can get their own way with your child. It is much much much more difficult at a later date to push those boundaries back when you've allowed them to overstep them time and time again. It's a much bigger blow up if you wait and don't say anything.

Sit her down, tell her it is unacceptable that she disregards you over the religious instruction of your children and that if she continues then you'll do x. I liked the line about not proselytizing with your children.

X can be what your comfortable with. It doesn't have to be "never see them again", it could be as A. suggested "I will not allow you to have unsupervised time with them." Yes, that means you need to pay for help, but you have to decide what your stance is on this and what you think she will stick to. If you think she'll agree, you could say that she needs to get your approval first or that you don't want instruction until they're older. It's up to you what you want it to be. You're the parent.

When we visit MIL/FIL or when they've had DS w/o us, they've asked us if they can take DS to church with them. They didn't go and do it w/o asking and knowing we would say no, if you know what I mean. They respect that we have different beliefs on this and we also respect that they want to share this with DS, so he has gone to church, mostly when we are there for the holidays. Go every week, we wouldn't be OK with, share in how they celebrate Christmas by going on Christmas Eve, fine. DS is also older so it is easier to explain these differences to him, as it will be with your DD as she gets older. "Grandma believes this, Mommy believes this etc."

[flashy09]

It's so frustrating! I wrote a long post once about whether to get my DD christened or not (i'm not religious) and while I was visting MIL, she had a priest take my baby from me in a crowded room and do it (probably a modified version). She knew she had to make it a surprise attack and it made me so mad. Totally understand your frustration.

[ha98ed14]

It's so frustrating! I wrote a long post once about whether to get my DD christened or not (i'm not religious) and while I was visting MIL, she had a priest take my baby from me in a crowded room and do it (probably a modified version). She knew she had to make it a surprise attack and it made me so mad. Totally understand your frustration.

Wow. Now that is insane. If you were dead and she was going to raise the baby as her own, fine. But you are very much alive and have full intention of raising your own child. No priest I know would ever do that. That is truely rogue; at least I hope so!

[lizzywednesday]

...
She can pray for her soul privately...

:yeahthat:

That's what my mother's mom does for us.

[lizzywednesday]

Wow. Now that is insane. If you were dead and she was going to raise the baby as her own, fine. But you are very much alive and have full intention of raising your own child. No priest I know would ever do that. That is truely rogue; at least I hope so!

Wow.

Even Archie Bunker couldn't get his parish priest to baptize his grandson without the baby's parents' consent - and that was fictional!!

[swissair81]

It's so frustrating! I wrote a long post once about whether to get my DD christened or not (i'm not religious) and while I was visting MIL, she had a priest take my baby from me in a crowded room and do it (probably a modified version). She knew she had to make it a surprise attack and it made me so mad. Totally understand your frustration.

I'm very religious and yet I my gut tells me I would have called the police- on both of them. Who gets away with taking someone's baby away?

[StantonHyde]

It's so frustrating! I wrote a long post once about whether to get my DD christened or not (i'm not religious) and while I was visting MIL, she had a priest take my baby from me in a crowded room and do it (probably a modified version). She knew she had to make it a surprise attack and it made me so mad. Totally understand your frustration.

Well, in the 40s, my dad's aunts took both him and his brother to church and had them baptized Catholic. (my grandmother was Calvinist and grandpa was Episcopalian which was his dad's religion. But his mom was Catholic as were his sisters and thus the baptism) In those days, that was pretty common....

Your MIL probably just asked the priest for a blessing or something. Or maybe the priest really was a jerk........

[KDsMommy]

It's so frustrating! I wrote a long post once about whether to get my DD christened or not (i'm not religious) and while I was visting MIL, she had a priest take my baby from me in a crowded room and do it (probably a modified version). She knew she had to make it a surprise attack and it made me so mad. Totally understand your frustration.

That is seriously disturbing. I don't even know what to say. I'm so sorry that happened.

[bisous]

I'm very religious and yet I my gut tells me I would have called the police- on both of them. Who gets away with taking someone's baby away?

Exactly. That is super sneaky and kind of scary!

[sunnyside]

I realize that my mom is turning more and more fundamentalist. She has been getting more and more devout and changed which denomination she is in. She was always religious, but not she has a lot of the born again style of behaviour (I'm not trying to offend anyone, I truly believe "to each their own" so long as it isn't affecting me and my family.)

[flashy09]

I should probably explain more. I don't think it was a true baptism as I didn't have to say anything and it was not in a church. But I was called into the living room at the house we were staying in and there was a priest and DH's family and quite a few friends. I was under the impresssion it was regarding BIL's wedding, however, the priest came over to me and asked how old DD was and picked her up from me said a blessing, made crosses, and put a drop of water on her forehead and everyone clapped. I stood there in shock, with a stony face, and am sure the family and friends think I am horrible. I still have no idea what happened as MIL refuses to discuss it and DH begged to just let it go (brother got married that day, which was a very stresssful sitation in itself) and said he didn't think it was anything formal. If I wasn't so terrified of being caught (should probably change my profile picture and location as is!), I would get so much off my chest on a separate bitching post about MIL!