Any Experience with Veterinary Dermatologists?

[LizLemon]

One of our dog has had this seemingly strange skin condition for over a year. Two general vets have examined it and both have not really been able to diagnose it but have said something vague, like "it's from laying on his legs (because he's skinny) and licking them."

I'm wondering if a consultation by a dermatologist would be a reasonable next step, because whatever this is definitely is not getting better. I was curious if any on the board had experience with animal dermatologists. Should I expect a lot of fees in terms of office visit, lab work, skin biopsy/scrapings, etc.? If you don't mind sharing, how much did your visits set you back?

(Disclaimer: We really are caring dog owners. If he were sick, I wouldn't be posting about this before I called. But since this is more just a "what's going on here" I would like to have some idea if this is going to be several hundred dollars or $1000 or more before we book an appointment.)

[Tondi G]

is he licking between his toes? I have a friend who took their lab mix to a derm. vet because he was constantly licking his feet and in between his toes and his skin looked angry and red. The derm. said it was probably allergies and said a grain free diet would be a good place to start (corn is often a culprit). I believe he also had them wash his paws with a medicated shampoo at first.

Oh and yeah the derm vet was VERY expensive!

[Momof3Labs]

It's going to be very expensive. Not sure if you'll get to $1000 right away, but $500 wouldn't surprise me. Has your vet done a slide to see if yeast is the issue? My dog used to chew her feet and nothing helped (allergy diets, etc) because she had yeast. She wasn't going to feel better until the yeast was under control. We used generic lotrimin to treat the yeast and she felt sooooo much better.

If you post a pic or three, we could always play name that doggy rash....

[LizLemon]

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

It's actually not his feet or paws but further up, more like on his "doggy elbows." The skin has this scaling appearance and is raised/heaped in some areas. Vets and groomers agree that it's not fleas, not mites, etc. But no one knows what it is. We have both dogs on a grain-free food that I at first thought (hoped?) was helping, but after a few months it doesn't seem like things are much if any better.

I tried to take some pictures but most of what came through is lots and lots of goldendoodle fur! I'll see if I can get better photos tomorrow.

[khalloc]

Thanks for the replies, everyone!

It's actually not his feet or paws but further up, more like on his "doggy elbows." The skin has this scaling appearance and is raised/heaped in some areas. Vets and groomers agree that it's not fleas, not mites, etc. But no one knows what it is. We have both dogs on a grain-free food that I at first thought (hoped?) was helping, but after a few months it doesn't seem like things are much if any better.

I tried to take some pictures but most of what came through is lots and lots of goldendoodle fur! I'll see if I can get better photos tomorrow.

I think thats pretty normal. As dogs get older the skin there gets "tough". I have a 10 year old black lab and he has that on his elbows too.

[mackmama]

I've taken two dogs to a vet dermatologist for different reasons. I found it very helpful. They know their stuff, so if your regular vet isn't helping - I'd definitely see the derm. It was expensive but not as much as I'd thought. In both instances, I only needed 1-2 visits.

[twowhat?]

I think thats pretty normal. As dogs get older the skin there gets "tough". I have a 10 year old black lab and he has that on his elbows too.

:yeahthat::yeahthat: Our dogs have it too as they've gotten older. All the dogs I've ever had has developed this on the elbows as they age. It's where they put a lot of pressure when they're laying down on our hard floors. Our vet says it's not a problem - even when it gets thick - unless it gets so large it becomes painful to lay on. Only then will she remove them.

[123LuckyMom]

Yup. It's normal. I wouldn't spend the extra for the dermatologist unless the dog is really bothered by it and licking it raw. With skin issues, it's always a good idea to check for allergies. The easiest way is to try a new food. Sometimes you can even switch back after a while. Talk again to your vet about it. The dermatologist will cost a bundle. I'd guess over $300 just for the visit. It would be worth it if your dog is in distress, of course, but I'd try everything your vet has to offer before consulting a specialist.

[BabyH]

I have experience with every kind of veterinary specialist! And one of my dogs and I are actually headed four hours away tomorrow to visit HIS ophthalmologist :) The last visit was under $200. Not cheap by any means, but I was actually more shocked at it being that "low" because I was expecting around $500. It sounds like you want him to see a Derm, so why not ask your vet who he would use, and just call and go over fees? It won't hurt to ask, and if you go once, you may not actually need to go again. Or maybe just every six months or so.

For your dog, the patches sound completely normal to me. My parents have always had Goldens and they had the same thing. If it bothers you to see it so dry, could you try something like shea butter to help? Although it might just be one of those things that nothing will solve. Good luck! (But if you decide to see a specialist don't forget they are typically referral based.)

[KLD313]

Yes I took one of my bulldogs for mange in her front feet. It was crazy expensive. I think just the visit was $400 and then they did the punch biopsy, then I had to go back again. It was over $1,500 easily. I was annoyed though because my vet diagnosed it and prescribed the right treatment but wanted me to go to the derm to confirm his diagnosis as mange in the feet is really hard to treat and sometimes can't be cured.

Like others have said I've seen skin like that on other dogs and it sounds normal. If you're looking to get it biopsied maybe your vet can do that and if necessary send that to the specialist. It is bound to be cheaper doing it that way.

[Tenasparkl]

It could be mange. My poor dog had it on her feet and licked and licked them for relief. From my research it can sometimes develop due to a weakened immune system. I was so upset when they told us because I always thought that mange was due to neglect, but not the case! She had the skin condition, then heart disease and lymphoma over the course of about 1.5 - 2 years. The derm was able to help us treat it and in comparison to the specialists that we saw for her other ailments it was pretty reasonable. Maybe a few hundred dollars for her visits, treatment etc.

[kellij]

Just ask how much the average visit is before you book so you'll have an idea about that specific vet.

[LizLemon]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. This is our 2-year-old dog, so I hope it is not due to old age already! And while the scaling areas are thickened they also flake quite a bit - black and white scales. The white flakes sort of look like big dandruff, but the black ones are longer and more pointed. Does this sound like what other dogs get too? The black specks freaked me out at first, but every vet and groomer we have been to are quite confident that these are not fleas. I have also done the water test with them, and they don't react as if they are 'flea dirt.'

Also, I forgot to mention in my original post, the affected areas include the elbow-y areas of his legs and parts of his tail, particularly the top - basically where he will chew where he seems itchy from time to time. The tail involvement is what made me wonder about food allergies and changing up the food, since it didn't seem like just dependent or weight-bearing areas.

[mackmama]

I'd take him to the derm. I don't think a 2yo would be getting the callouses that PP have referred to. The tail issue also sounds like something - probably some type of allergy.

[Radswd]

Our cat had a skin condition where he was doing lots of licking & scratching. He had to be in one of those head cones for short bit :( We found out with trial & error w our vet that he has skin allergies. He has to eat rx food, hypoallergenic kind. It comes in a couple of different formulas but he can tolerate only one. His treats are also hypoallergenic, both made by Science Diet. Also, vet says not to store his food or serve food in platic. Ceramic or stainless steel only. This plan has worked for us for years now. When he was inflammed vet gave injection & creme which were helpful. Sorry cant remember what they were. Best wishes...

[Radswd]

Oops, the food is made by Royal Canin not Science Diet.

[khalloc]

Yeah if he is chewing and its also affecting his tail it sounds like maybe he has an allergy?

[twowhat?]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. This is our 2-year-old dog, so I hope it is not due to old age already! And while the scaling areas are thickened they also flake quite a bit - black and white scales. The white flakes sort of look like big dandruff, but the black ones are longer and more pointed. Does this sound like what other dogs get too? The black specks freaked me out at first, but every vet and groomer we have been to are quite confident that these are not fleas. I have also done the water test with them, and they don't react as if they are 'flea dirt.'

Also, I forgot to mention in my original post, the affected areas include the elbow-y areas of his legs and parts of his tail, particularly the top - basically where he will chew where he seems itchy from time to time. The tail involvement is what made me wonder about food allergies and changing up the food, since it didn't seem like just dependent or weight-bearing areas.

Ahhh, OK then yes this sounds like something else. Sorry, I have no idea how much veterinary dermatologists cost. If it's not bothering him greatly, I'd agree with changing his food. Get something with a single protein source and a single grain source and see if that helps. California Natural makes a limited-ingredient food that is just lamb (one of the easiest-to-digest proteins) and rice (a grain that is not common for dogs to be allergic to) and natural preservatives (vitamin E) and vitamins/minerals. No corn (a common allergan), no anything else. This is the food our dogs eat even though they don't have allergy problems - I like it because it's a high-quality food. If you need something cheaper, I think Costco has a lamb and brown rice formula but it might have eggs or soy in it - I can't remember. Check the ingredients. Costco also carries a grain-free salmon and sweet potato food (Nature's Domain?) that would be worth trying because grains (excluding rice, usually) are frequently a culprit in food allergies in dogs.

http://www.wag.com/dog/p/california-natural-lamb-meal-rice-adult-large-bites-dog-food-314656

If changing foods to something that has very limited ingredients helps, then it'll probably become apparent within several weeks. You might also try a fish oil supplement.

[LizLemon]

Ahhh, OK then yes this sounds like something else. Sorry, I have no idea how much veterinary dermatologists cost. If it's not bothering him greatly, I'd agree with changing his food. Get something with a single protein source and a single grain source and see if that helps. California Natural makes a limited-ingredient food that is just lamb (one of the easiest-to-digest proteins) and rice (a grain that is not common for dogs to be allergic to) and natural preservatives (vitamin E) and vitamins/minerals. No corn (a common allergan), no anything else. This is the food our dogs eat even though they don't have allergy problems - I like it because it's a high-quality food. If you need something cheaper, I think Costco has a lamb and brown rice formula but it might have eggs or soy in it - I can't remember. Check the ingredients. Costco also carries a grain-free salmon and sweet potato food (Nature's Domain?) that would be worth trying because grains (excluding rice, usually) are frequently a culprit in food allergies in dogs.

http://www.wag.com/dog/p/california-natural-lamb-meal-rice-adult-large-bites-dog-food-314656

If changing foods to something that has very limited ingredients helps, then it'll probably become apparent within several weeks. You might also try a fish oil supplement.

Good to know the timeframe. We switched our dogs to a limited-ingredient food (salmon and sweet potato, no other grains) several months ago. It's been a few months. At first we thought we were seeing some improvement but it's definitely gotten a bit worse lately. As a confounder, our 15-month-old has found that one of her favorite activities is to share her meals with the dogs, so we certainly have not completely eliminated grain from his diet!

As a first step we are going to our regular vet tomorrow. I say 'we' but I will not be able to go, so hopefully my husband will be able to get the vet to at least do a skin scraping. (I am certainly the more detail oriented and prone to obsessively research things like canine skin problems of the two of us!)

Thank you again everyone for all your help and suggestions! :heartbeat:

[BabyH]

Where are you located? I just got home from taking my dog to a specialist yesterday, and the recheck fee was $50, the test in the exam room was $16, and the drops (which last forever) were $46. I was pleasantly surprised.

However, I also got the scoop on the Dermatology fees at this particular office. (Check out www.animaldermatology.com interesting tip about switching food in order to find food allergy, sounds like they frown on it ) I have the brochure right here next to me if you'd like more information. I can tell you that the initial consultation fee (for this office) is $150 and obviously anything like tests or meds are extra. The two Derms in this office graduated from Cornell College of Veterinary Medicine and Auburn College of Veterinary Medicine. Let me know...