How far to push DH?

[mytwosons]

Quick backstory: (http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=447844&highlight=mytwosons) I’ve been the sole breadwinner for the past 4+ years. DH didn’t attend college and owned his own business, which folded when the economy crashed. He suffers from mental health issues, which is somewhat key to this story. He’s been going to school PT working on his pre-reqs for a medical related AS. He started the actual program this fall, but didn’t pass a course (skills assessment), so is out until he can restart the program next fall. A month or so ago, when this happened, he said he would get a low level job in this field ( to get him more comfortable working with patients and increase his chances of doing well in the program) and if he couldn’t find something in the field, would get some other job because he needed the money. Well, a month later and he hasn’t submitted a single application.

I pay all of the household expenses. My salary covers all of our needs. I’m starting a new job later this month and will be getting a considerable raise.

We have separate bank accounts. DH overspends (probably related to his mental health) and I opened a sole account to ensure our family would be provided for.

I have yet to really push DH about getting a job. The farthest I’ve gone is to ask him about checking in with his instructor, who told him she would inquire with 2nd year students about who is hiring. During an extended period last year where he didn’t work or attend school, I helped him with his resume and cover letters, and was encouraging, but didn’t set any ultimatums.

He is still on meds, but needs to get back to seeing a therapist regularly, not just the psychiatrist. I’m scheduled to see someone, but it will be a while before the appointment.

How much should I push him? If he were my child, I wouldn’t pay his car insurance when it comes due, etc., but he isn’t my child. I’m just envisioning this dragging on to the summer and I’m honestly not sure if he will ever have a career.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Hmm, I'm seeing this as someone who is a stay at home mom. My dh is solely financially responsible for the family but I take care of the kids. He hasn't pushed. Right now, he's ok with me being on kid duty. Could your dh be a stay at home dad? Is that really off the table?

[mytwosons]

Hmm, I'm seeing this as someone who is a stay at home mom. My dh is solely financially responsible for the family but I take care of the kids. He hasn't pushed. Right now, he's ok with me being on kid duty. Could your dh be a stay at home dad? Is that really off the table?

I struggle with this.
1. This was never the plan. Perhaps if he had been more supportive of me when I stayed home for a couple years (while I finished my MBA and dealt w/all of DS1's therapies), I wouldn't feel the resentment.
2. I do all of the shopping, meal planning and most of the cooking.
3. Our kids don't need to be run all over during the week, so there really isn't a lot of childcare responsibilities.
4. DH has admitted he would be happier working/going to school and says he doesn't want to SAH.

[chlobo]

Personally, I would give him a choice. Tell him he either takes over some of the household responsibilities - laundry, shopping, meal planning, cooking, etc. OR he finds some kind of job. Tell him there is no other option. He can't just stay home and do nothing.

[khalloc]

I think I would be pissed if I were you. I think he needs a plan. he needs to start seeing a counselor or whatever you both decide. Then he needs a realistic plan to start contributing to the household. He could find SOME type of job and at least be actively looking for one. If he cant find a job he should be the one cooking/cleaning, etc...Does he want to find a job and do something? Is he on board with seeing a counselor? Nothing will get better if he doesnt want to change.

[ett]

4. DH has admitted he would be happier working/going to school and says he doesn't want to SAH.

Given that your DH has admitted this, I would push him on the job hunt. I'm also a SAHM and we depend on DH financially, but I do all the shopping, cooking, cleaning, kids stuff during the week. He's not a child and if he's not going to do the SAH parent duties, he should be doing something else. What does he do during the day? I don't have experience with mental health issues, though, so I don't know how that comes into play. Do those issues affect him in terms of job search and holding a job?

[mytwosons]

He does clean and gets kids off to school and is home with them after school. He'll exercise and read during the school time.... Ya, I'm not a happy camper about this.

[wellyes]

Two things.

First, one of the biggest realization of marriage for me has been, you are married to the person you are married you --- not who you wish he could be, or his best potential self. You are married to someone who opts to not work, chose to go to school only PT, *failed* a class, and is clearly not feeling a strong urge to change any of those things. And is aware that you cover expenses and are getting a big raise. I think you should try to come to peace, at least a little, with him just not being driven. The only alternative I can think of is that perhaps he just has zero passion for the field he's chosen, and should work towards something else.

Second, there is no flipping way I would grocery shop and cook for him. No way. A life of leisure AND a personal chef are not things unemployed college drops with kids and a wife who works FT get to enjoy.

[infomama]

I would focus more on getting him back to a therapist vs. looking for work. I understand that is the ultimate goal but perhaps his therapist can encourage him to find work while still managing his mental health issues. If he knows he would be happier doing something other than what he is doing now and he has yet to make a move towards that happiness there is a reason for that.

[lhafer]

Two things.

First, one of the biggest realization of marriage for me has been, you are married to the person you are married you --- not who you wish he could be, or his best potential self. You are married to someone who opts to not work, chose to go to school only PT, *failed* a class, and is clearly not feeling a strong urge to change any of those things. And is aware that you cover expenses and are getting a big raise. I think you should try to come to peace, at least a little, with him just not being driven. The only alternative I can think of is that perhaps he just has zero passion for the field he's chosen, and should work towards something else.

Second, there is no flipping way I would grocery shop and cook for him. No way. A life of leisure AND a personal chef are not things unemployed college drops with kids and a wife who works FT get to enjoy.

:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat: x1000

[dogmom]

I would say you have to figure out what you want. Then you need to figure out if you want him as your husband. I don't see in any of your post how you get along as a couple. You have married someone that is not going to be the primary breadwinner ever. But maybe he can take over the at home responsibilities and be a good father. Maybe even get a job at some point. But you need to make peace with that. The mental illness is not going to go away, it might get managed better at some times than others, but I think what you see is what you get for the most part now. (I don't see how raising kids make one's mental health less stressed or tested.)

I really don't see it as a matter of pushing him. He is either incapable or unwilling, or some combination, of doing what most people do. Pushing him is just going waste your energy. And yes, I see that some of this might be stuck in sex roles. How would you feel if I friend described this situation to you if the sex roles were reversed and she was the one getting pressured. Yes, he needs to do more at home, but I've also seen wives sabotage how their DH run the house and the kids because it's not their way. I'm not saying you do that all the time, but I think all of us do it at least a little bit.

You can't fix him. You can decide if it is possible to construct a home life that works for you as a family. If not, well, then it means not having him as a husband.

[westwoodmom04]

Have you gone to therapy together? It seems from your description that he is behaving more like a child than a partner. Do you have a good local support system? Does he? I agree with the previous posters that you probably can't make him change, but you can put your foot down with respect to what you are willing to do if he is not working, and let him react.

Hugs to you, as it sounds like you have an awful lot on your plate.

[egoldber]

He sounds a little depressed to me. I think in the other thread about his class you mentioned he has anxiety and that was why he failed the skills class. Anxiety very often has a depressive component.

But I absolutely agree with dogmom. You may be able to address some aspects of this situation, but in general this is probably what your life is going to be at least for the medium term.

My SIL is in a similar situation. Her DH moved to a different part of the country to be with her and he had to give up a good job, but it did not pay as well as hers did. It was a job, not a career. He also does not have a college degree. He has found it impossible to find anything except odd jobs. He has tried to get certified in a few different things, but has failed. They have 3 kids and he is now the SAHD. But he does all the shopping, house work, and kid stuff, so he pulls his weight in the household. But it was a process to get there with him.

[mmommy]

After reading your post OP, my answer to "how far to push him" would have to be "right out the door". That probably sounds incredibly harsh, but I honestly don't think I could live through what you're describing.

I don't know what the correct, loving, answer to your question is. I just really applaud you for your strength in making it this far and I hope you find some peace, love, and support because you have more than earned it.

[mctlaw]

After reading your post OP, my answer to "how far to push him" would have to be "right out the door". That probably sounds incredibly harsh, but I honestly don't think I could live through what you're describing.

I don't know what the correct, loving, answer to your question is. I just really applaud you for your strength in making it this far and I hope you find some peace, love, and support because you have more than earned it.

Yep, this. I'm sorry, it seems you have been incredibly patient. I couldn't do it. Hugs.

[Simon]

Without giving too many details, let me just say I have BTDT, almost exactly, and I really feel for you.
I, too, waited patiently for years and decided that we had reached an impasse. So, I did the job hunting, sat down with the adult to fill out applications, proofread applications and essays, hit the send/submit button for online stuff. Basically, I held their hand the whole way because it.had.to.be.done and clearly the hands-off stance wasn't working. I had a lot of personal conflict about doing this. I already felt like I was doing it all, and it wasn't *my* responsibility, etc. but in the ended that was what it took to break a bad cycle. The person did/does great while employed but the job search business is an honest-to-god nightmare.

The upside was that it wasn't too hard to get a position of some kind, but it took about 3 years (total from when I really took over) to get this person into a great, career shaped job that has the potential to last! Those were some tough years but in many ways better and easier than the ones where I tried to stay out of the process and just be supportive from the sidelines.

[Philly Mom]

After reading your post OP, my answer to "how far to push him" would have to be "right out the door". That probably sounds incredibly harsh, but I honestly don't think I could live through what you're describing.

I don't know what the correct, loving, answer to your question is. I just really applaud you for your strength in making it this far and I hope you find some peace, love, and support because you have more than earned it.

:yeahthat: I am not sure I could do what you are doing. You have been so strong and supportive. If my DH did not work and did nothing to try to either get work or get better, I am not sure I could keep financially supporting him to the detriment of my own sanity. At the very least, I would make him take care of the house and dinner. Maybe if he had a busier day taking care of the house, he would start to get motivated.

[ha98ed14]

This may be the wrong approach, but what do you think would happen if you did (threaten to) push him out the door? If you filed for divorce? Would it motivate him to get it together or would it send him over the edge?

I have struggled with depression since I was about 20, and anxiety since DD was born. Both my mother (when I was living at home post-college) and my DH (when I was postpartum) have had to "deal with me" when I was pretty low. After letting me wallow for a time, they both have (at different times) tough-loved me out of it. DH did not have to threaten me with divorce, nor did he insist I had to work, but he said I needed to be productive. He needed me to be engaged so that I could function in the other areas of my life. I was pretty responsive to him being so unhappy with me, so I got it together. The tough love worked. But I know that if I had not responded, he would have been very, very vocal about his disapproval and would have pushed harder. A lot harder.

For me, the tough love pushed me towards getting it together, but I could also see it backfiring. You have to go with your gut, but either way, if you feel like YOU are enabling him to carry on with the status quo, then you are 100% within your right to stop enabling. If he is really that debilitated by his illness, you will be able to tell; he won't be able to get it together with to without you.

[LizLemon]

Quick backstory: (http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=447844&highlight=mytwosons) I’ve been the sole breadwinner for the past 4+ years. DH didn’t attend college and owned his own business, which folded when the economy crashed. He suffers from mental health issues, which is somewhat key to this story. He’s been going to school PT working on his pre-reqs for a medical related AS. He started the actual program this fall, but didn’t pass a course (skills assessment), so is out until he can restart the program next fall. A month or so ago, when this happened, he said he would get a low level job in this field ( to get him more comfortable working with patients and increase his chances of doing well in the program) and if he couldn’t find something in the field, would get some other job because he needed the money. Well, a month later and he hasn’t submitted a single application.

I pay all of the household expenses. My salary covers all of our needs. I’m starting a new job later this month and will be getting a considerable raise.

We have separate bank accounts. DH overspends (probably related to his mental health) and I opened a sole account to ensure our family would be provided for.

I have yet to really push DH about getting a job. The farthest I’ve gone is to ask him about checking in with his instructor, who told him she would inquire with 2nd year students about who is hiring. During an extended period last year where he didn’t work or attend school, I helped him with his resume and cover letters, and was encouraging, but didn’t set any ultimatums.

He is still on meds, but needs to get back to seeing a therapist regularly, not just the psychiatrist. I’m scheduled to see someone, but it will be a while before the appointment.

How much should I push him? If he were my child, I wouldn’t pay his car insurance when it comes due, etc., but he isn’t my child. I’m just envisioning this dragging on to the summer and I’m honestly not sure if he will ever have a career.

If he is consistently overspending his bank account, I would question whether it is really, consistently a mentally health issue each time or if it there was something else going on - such as a lack of respect for you, or knowing that you will always be there to catch him when he falls so there is no reason to change. If his functioning is poor enough that he is not able to balance a checkbook, apply for a job, etc. I personally would insist that in addition to starting therapy he enroll in a life skills class, which should be offered through your local mental health center. It seems like he is coasting along and you are ensuring that all his needs are met, because you are doing an excellent job providing for the family, which includes him. Between that and his mental illness, it may be hard for him to find motivation.

[eagle]

there is a lot of great advice. really lots to think about and lots of different ways to go.

im just adding one tiny thought here.

get organized and start creating very specific shopping lists with exact brands and sizes of staples for foods you cook. teaching someone how to cook meals if they do not cook is out of the question, esp if the person is not motivated to help out with the cooking.

but shopping, anyone can do that.

you can get him going with the shopping. start small, with just five things and build up from there until you can just give him a list of a week or two weeks worth of stuff and just trust that he will get what you need. in this, it would also be helpful if you are flexible in things purchased.

good luck. theres a lot to think about and i agree with so many of the other previous posters!

this shopping thing, do or dont do, but definitely do something. dont go on living like the way you have been living!!!

[FLYAND]

After reading your post OP, my answer to "how far to push him" would have to be "right out the door". That probably sounds incredibly harsh, but I honestly don't think I could live through what you're describing.

I don't know what the correct, loving, answer to your question is. I just really applaud you for your strength in making it this far and I hope you find some peace, love, and support because you have more than earned it.

Remember, we are only hearing one side, there is always two sides to a story. It's up to the OP what they do. Pushing someone out the door won't exactly solve everything or anything either. Thats typical of people in today's society, they just divorce rather then work on the issues.

[sntm]

Remember, we are only hearing one side, there is always two sides to a story. It's up to the OP what they do. Pushing someone out the door won't exactly solve everything or anything either. Thats typical of people in today's society, they just divorce rather then work on the issues.

Maybe, but there are also people who waste a lot of good years being miserable with the wrong person (wrong overall or wrong for them, doesn't matter.)

I definitely think his mental illness may be playing a role, so I would start there. Is he maximizing his treatment (pharmaceutical, therapy, etc)?

Expanding on what others have said, I agree that there may be some gender role expectations playing in to this, but it also doesn't make it a justifiable situation, even if genders were reversed. Being both the main breadwinner and the main caregiver while he is unmotivated to take on any of these roles will just create resentment. It will only get worse over time. Fwiw, that was, in a much subtler way, part of the disconnect with my XH. Of course, unmotivated and unambiguous turned around and went to law school when he had alimony, child support, and a new wife who wouldn't ever be able to support him! ;P

[HannaAddict]

You said he had mental health issues. I don't think any amount of pushing on jobs etc. will work if he has not resolved or had some major mental health issues. Whatever they are, they need to be worked on and it sounds like a hard and frustrating situation. Good luck getting him into therapy.

[amandabea]

My SIL is in a similar situation. Her DH moved to a different part of the country to be with her and he had to give up a good job, but it did not pay as well as hers did. It was a job, not a career. He also does not have a college degree. He has found it impossible to find anything except odd jobs. He has tried to get certified in a few different things, but has failed. They have 3 kids and he is now the SAHD. But he does all the shopping, house work, and kid stuff, so he pulls his weight in the household. But it was a process to get there with him.

This is me and my DH exactly, but with only 1 DC. With my schedule and what DH would bring home, we choose to have him SAH. He does EVERYTHING except my laundry because I don't let him. He gets very bored during the day, so I'm thinking about talking to him about taking some cooking lessons :wink2: