Would this principal's attitude bother you? (re: SES and edu)

[ha98ed14]

I went to the PTA meeting today, and as I have posted before, our school is moving forward with a BYOD iPad program in 4th thought 6th grades. There was also a significant amount of time spent on discussing a science camp field trip that the upper grades go on. The "suggested donation" for 3 nights of the trip is $300. Her attitude towards the lower income students who don't participate was very much like, "Oh, well, they don't tell me early enough that they cannot pay, so the funding is gone by the time they speak up; it's been spent on other things." I know that to be true, actually, because the district will take back whatever money remains unspent at the end of the year.

So there was a lot of discussion of these "extras" that cost money out of the pockets of families and what wonderful opportunities they are, including the assumption that kids are going to BYOD. I got the impression that this principal doesn't really care about educating the lower income kids, or just kids whose parents can't/won't pay for the extras, but the thing is: she doesn't have to be worried about it. This school is in a pretty affluent area. Many of the kids who transfer in are from "the wrong side of the tracks" but they get booted out at the first sign of trouble. A boy in DD's Kindergarten class whose parents were "white trash" got booted out because of behavioral issues. It happened before Thanksgiving, which in many way is still considered a "breaking in" period for Kinders.

What do you think of this attitude? Should this principal be concerned about educating the lower SES students who transfer into her school? Or is it okay for her to charge on with making the "extras" integral parts of the curriculum because (most of) the kids she is actually charged with educating (the ones from the neighborhood) are going to be able to pay for the extras without it being an issue?

[sariana]

Yes this would bother me, and I'm not sure it's even legal, though that may vary by state. But the ACLU might be interested in this situation....

[maestramommy]

Think your principal's attitude SUCKS. Our school is in an affluent town, but it's in the part of town that also includes a lot of kids in a much lower SES. Whenever there's a field trip or some kind of activity that requires money, the note that goes home always includes a reminder that if money is a problem (even for something like a $3 book/exchange) they should let them know and their child will still be able to participate. Any family with money difficulties can speak to the school nurse, who is the go-to person on these things. Right before Christmas the principal sent out an email saying some school families were struggling, and if we would like to help out please contact the school nurse.

I canNOT ever see the school going for a BYOD program because 1) it would be a huge hardship on too many families, and 2) no way would taxpayers cough up needed funding. We have an ipad cart that travels around the school and I'm happy with that. There is another school in my district that is in a more moneyed part of town and I know they do more. Their 4th grade does a huge project on Ellis Island every year that gets written up in the town paper, and they also have some ski thing going. My eyebrows went up when I heard about that (incidentally) but whatever. Skiing is not something Dh and I are interested in for our family and if it was, we wouldn't expect our school to do something about it.

It sounds to me like your principal is just jumping on the ipad bandwagon, so as not to look like the school is getting behind the times.

[bisous]

This would bother me. It isn't legal to offer school activities that cost money (public education should be free) but unfortunately the people that are excluded are often too afraid or intimidated (or they simply aren't aware that they can) speak up about the problems and the exclusion and they just end up being left out.

I have run into this before in CA. I don't really think this is purely a SES issue. One of the schools we recently moved from was very wealthy and we were constantly asked for donations. That said, it was emphasized time and again that program contributions were voluntary and the office staff, principal and teaching staff worked hard to make sure that EVERYONE was taken care of.

I do think that this kind of attitude comes "from the top". It is really hard to change things if the principal is not understanding or sympathetic to lower income kids. My mom, who wasn't made of money but who was not struggling, made it a point to refuse to pay for extra programs. I think she really did it, not because she was cheap (okay partially because she was cheap) but also because she really did not feel that it was fair to require payment to participate in programs in public school. I think that policies were actually changed because of her stubbornness and insistence.

As a kid it was ROYALLY embarrassing but as an adult I admire her willingness even though I probably wouldn't have gone about it the same way she did.

[karstmama]

yes, it would bother me. i have no idea what i'd do about it, but i'd find some way to get my point across.

[AnnieW625]

I have said it before this is why technology in the classroom bothers me to no end. If there is not funding for all students then there should be no funding for anyone. If my kid went to public school and even though we could probably afford a $300 trip or a $400 IPod I know for sure it might be a stretch for us in the long run ESP. with two kids, and even if it was the best school in the area I would be having second thoughts about sending my kids there. My kid goes to a school with kids whose parents/families have lots more income than my DDs will ever have but rarely does the inequalities of thr haves and have nots come out because it just isn't brought up by the school or the parents. The kids with the two doctors for parents or the hedge fund manager are seen as equal to the kids of the single parents or the kids who receive financial assistance (which most our PTO's fundraisers help fund) I got a worse feeling from the public school in our area that raised $90k in 2010 at their spring fundraiser than I got from a Catholic school that charges tuition (and takes an entire year to raise $90k from multiple events).

I agree with Sariana I would inform the ACLU or at least the local school board of your disgust with this principal and her unequal education policies.

[PZMommy]

At my school we do trips for 4th and 5th graders. It is around $300 a night. Anyone can sign up to go. Those that can't afford it can take part in fundraisers to help raise money. As long as you participate to the best of your ability in the fundraisers, you will be allowed to go. Our principal was very Leary of the trips because she didn't want anyone excluded due to financial issues.

I would think your school is setting themselves up for a huge problem by not helping out low income students. Also as a teacher, I don't think I would want students in my class to bring in iPads. I'd be so afraid of someone stealing or breaking one and then the parent getting mad at me. Plus I would think the students may be doing things other than their assigned task on the iPad. It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

[crl]

That sounds horrible to me. I hate the thought of the kids whose parents can't afford an iPad or trip being excluded like that. And I think your principal sounds like an insensitive jerk.

I am not certain what I would do, but I'm not sure I could let that go.

Catherine

[hellokitty]

I would not be happy to hear the principal talk like that. It IS a snooty attitude. These kids can't help that they come from families where they can't afford ipads as part of, "school supplies." It's like taking it out on the kids and then putting them at an even bigger disadvantage.

OP, I forgot to write on your original ipad thread way back. However, that same wk of your thread, our superintendent sent home a letter that instead of constantly, policing devices, that they are going to, "embrace" the technology and work it into their curriculum for jr and high school students. To me, this also reads as, "your kid will need a smartphone/tablet," and I'm not that happy about it. I do know that they are probably grooming the elementary set for this, since the school bought 60 ipads to be rotated and used by elementary teachers in their classrooms. We used some xmas $ from family members to get our 3 kids a nexus 7 to share, but it does bug me that the school seems to lean toward apple. I'm hoping that as they work this out, that they will include other devices other than just apple. Sorry, but I'm not paying 2x as much for an ipad. We could afford it, but I just don't think it is necessary.

[wellyes]

If the principal is talking about a portion of his population as "they", that is obviously a problem. There is only "we". That is the most basic level of leadership.

[KDsMommy]

This would bother me a LOT. I too am not sure what I would do or say, but I know I couldn't let it go. The principal's attitude is so wrong and unfair on so many levels.

[westwoodmom04]

I'm not an expert on education law, but this doesn't seem legal and definitely doesn't seem like any way to run a public school. Several private schools in our area give the kids i-pads. It is covered by tution, so kids on scholarship do not have to bear the cost.

At our local public school, the school does lose out on funding because of the relative high income of the parents. Of course, as with your area, there is a range. Pretty much all of the extra spending gets funneled through the PTA, which does a variety of fundraisers. Some of this money is spent on cultural activities (mostly outside groups that come in to present a play or some kind of educational skit), but most goes to classroom technology. This year a number of mimmio tablets were purchased. Each grade goes on three field trips. The cost is fairly minimal (usually less than $10 never more than $15) and there is a lot of notice and the permission slip explicitly states that there is an option for aid if you can't afford it with lots of time to take action.

Maybe find some like-minded parents and lodge a complaint against the principal with the school board or superintendant?

[mommyp]

This bothers me a lot. That is a terrible attitude for a school principal in every sense. We just toured the elementary school that DD will be attending next year and the principal made a point of mentioning certain extras that are funded by the parent fundraising for ALL students in the school to benefit from. I'm not sure what I would do about it though.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Are you 100% you heard right and weren't spinning her comments? I know you have already need sensitive to how you feel it is at the school but I wonder how much is perception and how much is really what they say. Also, do you know what options are available? For example, the field trip...is there fundraising? Our kids do a 2 night trip for $100 and they have many chances to raise the money; the school will kick in shortfalls too. Not everyone knows the ins and outs of the $ unless it specifically affects them...like maybe the kids in the older grades are in the know about the funding options and you are left guessing and assuming how they do things.

If she truly feels like you think she does, then that is a shame.

[BayGirl2]

If the principal is talking about a portion of his population as "they", that is obviously a problem. There is only "we". That is the most basic level of leadership.

:yeahthat:
And accepting diversity and people of all SES is fundamentally important to me and something I want my kids to learn. Its one reason I'm ok with them going to our SES-diverse neighborhood school, while some of my neighbors do private instead.

Not sure exactly what I'd do about, other than try to bring up options in the meeting or have an offline conversation with the Principal.

[ha98ed14]

Are you 100% you heard right and weren't spinning her comments? I know you have already need sensitive to how you feel it is at the school but I wonder how much is perception and how much is really what they say. Also, do you know what options are available? For example, the field trip...is there fundraising? Our kids do a 2 night trip for $100 and they have many chances to raise the money; the school will kick in shortfalls too. Not everyone knows the ins and outs of the $ unless it specifically affects them...like maybe the kids in the older grades are in the know about the funding options and you are left guessing and assuming how they do things.

If she truly feels like you think she does, then that is a shame.

I'm pretty sure she does because in the same breath she was sweeping the needs of the disadvantaged "them" (often Hispanic transfer students) under the rug with a "they don't tell us fast enough when they need financial help," she was praising our school for finally getting API over 9XX so that we were keeping up with the four "Korean schools." Mind you, these schools are all public and in the same district. Yes, our town has a large Korean population and many of the families live in close proximity to Korean businesses, etc. but "the Korean schools" are American public schools. Anyone can go there who lives in the neighborhood and anyone in the district can request a transfer.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Rock on with complaining then! She is a real piece of work!

[SummerBaby]

Very offensive! Our school is in an affluent district, but is still 9% free lunch so there are families who can't afford extras. We also do an overnight science camp in 5th grade, but there is a significant amount of fundraising that reduces parent cost to about $100. No child is denied the opportunity to go because of need. Many families and teachers give extra to cover those kids, and the rest is covered by donations from the PTA and local charities. If your school isn't willing to come up with a way to cover extras for all children, then there shouldn't be extras. It's public school for crying out loud!

[vonfirmath]

II'm hoping that as they work this out, that they will include other devices other than just apple. Sorry, but I'm not paying 2x as much for an ipad. We could afford it, but I just don't think it is necessary.

1. Traditionally Apple has been VERY good to the educational market, with steep discounts available.

2. At least around here, the Nabi tablet is in use in one school so there is hope!