Housing vs School?

[nfowife]

We are moving this summer to a small town for DH to attend business school for the next 2 years. There are 2 options for housing- the first is a small townhouse community that is newish, about 1.5 miles to campus, and is university-owned for graduate students and their families. From all accounts it is a great, supportive community where kids play outside, there are playgrounds, bus stop at the clubhouse, very friendly community feel. I think this would be a great and obvious choice for us.
The other choice is to rent a condo, townhouse, or SFH in town. The downside is this will likely be more expensive. Also will be more isolating as wont be a community of similar age/types of families. Might be more work depending on contract in terms of snow removal or landscaping (if SFH and not included in rent- the school is in northern New England).

The main issue is that the college owned housing is just outside the town's border which puts it in the neighboring school district. The school my kids would go to if we lived there rates a 3 on greatschools. If we found a place in town near the college the school rates a 10 on greatschools. My kids current school rates a 9 on greatschools. This would be for 3&4th grade for DD and 1&2nd grade for my DS. Both my kids are typical bright learners so far. No IEPs services to consider.
On the one hand, it's only 2 years. Living in the grad housing would be a great experience for our family socially. On the other hand I don't know if that is worth going to a poorly-rated school. I would plan to get involved at the school and have no problem speaking up if I feel there are needs not being met. I taught k-2 for 6 years before having my oldest.
Thoughts?

[jjordan]

I would probably do college-owned housing. I'm thinking that the school issue is not a huge deal for you guys, with how young your kids are, and with your experience teaching. You should easily be able to fill in whatever gaps you find that their school experience has.

It is a different story if the lower-rated school district is unsafe, but I don't understand that to be the case from what you wrote.

I think that the trade-off of having a good, supportive community in which to live is well worth it.

[tmahanes]

I would probably do college-owned housing. I'm thinking that the school issue is not a huge deal for you guys, with how young your kids are, and with your experience teaching. You should easily be able to fill in whatever gaps you find that their school experience has.

It is a different story if the lower-rated school district is unsafe, but I don't understand that to be the case from what you wrote.

I think that the trade-off of having a good, supportive community in which to live is well worth it.

I totally agree with all of this!

Sent from my DROID RAZR

[KpbS]

My sister lived in a community just like you are describing (in NJ) and it was wonderful. They LOVED it. For them it was pre-kids/early babyhood so schools weren't a factor. Any way your kids could get a transfer to the preferable elementary? Will you be working or could you homeschool them if you went with the close elementary and found it to be very sub-par?

[nfowife]

Homeschooling is NOT an option for me. Whatsoever.
Also, while in theory supplementing can be done, it is not something I can commit to. For one, by the time my kids get home from school after being there for 7+ hours, I am not sitting with them (after they do whatever homework they have) to do more extended work. They don't want that and neither do I. Not saying that I don't have a responsibility to work with them, I do and we do, but I'm not going to commit to doing extra work all the time outside of school in the short few hours we have each day after school and on weekends. I want my kids to have time to play, time for activities and sports and religious education. The older they get the more demands there are on our time. I barely have enough time to get in the basics required right now!
I don't work and don't plan to while we are there. I have my toddler and will hopefully have her in a toddler program about 5 hours a week in the mornings (2 mornings a week).

The more I'm thinking about it the less sure I am of living in the grad housing. It would be different if it was our only choice, but we don't HAVE to live there, kwim? And my DD would be in 3rd and 4th grades. Those are important years IMO.

[SnuggleBuggles]

It seems pretty clear that you would be very dissatisfied at the lower ranked school. However, I think you should talk with people who send their kids there and visit (or at least research a bunch if you can't go there in person). Schools don't always rank well but still provide a great education.

[vonfirmath]

The main issue is that the college owned housing is just outside the town's border which puts it in the neighboring school district. The school my kids would go to if we lived there rates a 3 on greatschools. If we found a place in town near the college the school rates a 10 on greatschools. My kids current school rates a 9 on greatschools. This would be for 3&4th grade for DD and 1&2nd grade for my DS. Both my kids are typical bright learners so far. No IEPs services to consider.
On the one hand, it's only 2 years. Living in the grad housing would be a great experience for our family socially. On the other hand I don't know if that is worth going to a poorly-rated school. I would plan to get involved at the school and have no problem speaking up if I feel there are needs not being met. I taught k-2 for 6 years before having my oldest.
Thoughts?

The community

We bought a house where the elementary school rates a 3 on greatschools. (The middle and high schools rate better). I have been VERY pleased so far with our school and would personally rate them much higher than that. They are very good with my kid, both in challenging him and dealing with his "high energy"ness.

[crl]

It seems pretty clear that you would be very dissatisfied at the lower ranked school. However, I think you should talk with people who send their kids there and visit (or at least research a bunch if you can't go there in person). Schools don't always rank well but still provide a great education.

I agree with this. The great schools score correlates to the standardized testing numbers. And those correlate to socio-economic status. An easy comparison tool, but not a very accurate measure of the quality of a school IMO. If you can tease out the numbers some more and/or talk with people who currently have kids in the school, you might find explanations that satisfy you.

I would be loathe to pass up the community opportunities especially when you will be there for such a short time so it may be hard to build your own community in a different setting.

Catherine

[HannaAddict]

Can you visit the schools? I wouldn't necessarily believe the rankings. Some great public schools near us our rated a 6, but all the parents and kids we know love them.

[egoldber]

That's a hard decision.

The difficulty, IMO, with asking people about the school their kids attend is that people tend to have a halo effect with their current school. And many people only have experience with one school, so they don't know what they don't know.

What are other attributes of the schools? Size, diversity of student body, extra-curriculars and clubs offered, foreign languages, etc. On one hand, I think most bright, typical kids with involved, educated parents will do fine most places. But OTOH, I do agree that 3rd and 4th are important transition years where kids start to really learn and set a foundation for study skills.

[westwoodmom04]

I'd go for the higher ranked schools because the discrepancy in ranking is so large, and 3 is pretty darn low. Two years of elementary school is a pretty significant block of time, and if the ranking is based on low standardized test scores, there is a risk that the curriculum is going to be pretty basic. Also, I wonder if most of the married students living in housing have younger kids as the school may be a disincentive to those who older kids. You are likely to meet a lot of people quickly with kids in elementary school regardless of where you live.

If you are really totally undecided, you should go visit the housing to see if it lives up to the hype, and talk to people who live there with older children to see how they handle the school situation.

[Kindra178]

Take a look at the breakdown of the test scores. That may tell a better story than the overall scores. For example, are the non low income test scores higher than the low income scores? Do the non low income scores compare to the other school?

[westwoodmom04]

One more thought, a community with highly ranked schools is going to have tons of families with kids. The difference in getting acclimated might be much less than you think.

[crl]

One more thought, a community with highly ranked schools is going to have tons of families with kids. The difference in getting acclimated might be much less than you think.

That was totally not my experience in Arlington VA. The highest ranked grade schools were in a neighborhood where most families were two income to afford the houses. No one was ever home so we never met anyone or had anyone to play with. In the part of Arlington with lower ranked schools, housing was more affordable and there was more density in general and we had a much easier time finding people at home and outside playing to meet and hang out with. (We lived there two different times, in two different neighborhoods.)

Catherine

[crl]

Take a look at the breakdown of the test scores. That may tell a better story than the overall scores. For example, are the non low income test scores higher than the low income scores? Do the non low income scores compare to the other school?

I think this is worth checking into and what I was trying to get at with suggesting you look at the numbers in more detail. How are subgroups doing? Maybe the lower ranked school has an English as a Second Language population that isn't testing well, but other kids are. Now, you still might find this concerning because you might be worried about whether resources will go disproportionately to the kids who are testing badly for whatever reason. Or you might think, hey, diversity is a positive and the kids who are not ESL are doing just fine academically. Both valid points of view, IMO. But I think it's worth it to try to tease it out so you can make a more informed decision.

Catherine

[kijip]

I don't put much stock into the rankings on Great Schools, which are mainly based on test scores. Test scores that can be skewed by a lot of factors (economics, language etc) or mean very little. I would visit the schools if at all possible before deciding. I would lean to the student housing because of the community factors and because saving money while in school is important.

[wellyes]

I don't care much about Great Schools, but a 3 is subpar enough to be a red flag. Since the university housing is new, perhaps it is changing the dynamic of the school (gentrification, basically). And as experienced educator you could be a positive part of that. That could be incredibly frustrating. But, I would work pretty hard to find a way to make it work - housing designed to accommodate a FT student with a SAH spouse and 3 kids. That sounds pretty special. Northern New England can be pretty isolating.

I do agree with the PP that it might be a place where most kids are preschool or younger. There are towns around where I live which are known for families moving out when their oldest is about to enter kindly (MA is education obsessed). Visit for sure to get a good read on the situation.

[123LuckyMom]

I, too, would do some more research on the schools. I would go visit, make an appointment with the principal, ask other grad students with kids. I also would speak with the principal of the better, neighboring district. I know in my town there are professors (and other non-college affiliated people) who live in the neighboring school district but are able to send their kids to school in our town. I'm not sure how that works, but the community you're considering may have a similar set up. I definitely think the community you describe would be enriching for your kids. Unless you find the schools are really bad, I would choose the community. I would not rely on the Great Schools rating to judge the schools, though. Be mindful, too, that if lots of other grad students and professors are sending their kids to this (less good) school, they are most likely working with the school to ensure their kids are getting a quality education. I'd be very surprised if the school were really bad.

[WatchingThemGrow]

I'd go for the SFH for a few reasons. 3 vs. 10 -huge differences, likely in school climate, learning standards, and all the things that make a school a place you WANT to be. As a former teacher also, looking for a new home now, I think back to working in a meh district to a superb district. Huge difference in climate.

Home-wise, I'd much rather be in a SFH vs a townhouse with 3 DC. We've been in one of each this year, and the extra "ground space" for kids to run/jump/scream without worrying quite as much about the neighbors is invaluable. There will be community in town. You'll have to make that community probably, but you get to "pick" your friends vs just getting neighbors. If you have religious activities planned, you'll definitely meet people there.

[nfowife]

Thanks for all your input!
-I am visiting the area in late April for admitted students weekend with DH. I can't wait until then to make a decision because housing will likely already be settled by then, particularly the grad housing will already have started posting and there are a very limited number of 3 bedrooms should we go that route.
-I have emailed with a mom whose DH is graduating this year and her son is the same age as my DD (2nd grade). This is what she had to say:

I think that your opinion of XYZ Elementary will depend on the type of school that your children have currently been attending. We lived about a half a mile outside of DC in a mega-expensive neighborhood (it was a fluke that our little apartment was next to this crazy wealthy area, we stood out like sore thumbs being NOT rich, and MUCH younger than all the other parents at pre-school and elem school activities). But what this meant, was that the Kindergarten that our son attended was super academic. The whole school was super academic and all about assessments.....At the time I felt like it was a little much for a 5 year old...but then we moved here....and basically realized that XYZ's curriculum for first grade was basically the exact same as our previous schools curriculum for Kindergarten, I was annoyed that he basically retook kinder in his first grade class here. It's just sort of a different world at this school. It's very laid back, (which can be good) my son's first grade class had 16 kids, and that was "big". That was so foreign to me. His kinder. in MD had 25 kids with 1 teacher, and here he had 16 kids with 2 full time teachers. I do think that it also depends on what teachers you get....Damon's teacher is quite a bit older, and I can tell is pretty set in her ways....I feel like I am blabbing....I am so sorry. I'll sum up this question.....Really, I do know others that have loved their experience at XYZ, and would rave about it. You just have to remember that we are in a very small town, many people don't even have email, so the school does not communicate through email at all. (maybe some teachers do, but my children's don't). The bus stop is at the Community Center, it's very convenient and the kids have a lot of fun together.

-I've asked her to please put me in contact with other moms who have school-aged kids (if there are any) in the 2-3-4 grades to discuss with them.
-Many of you are correct that most of the families and children in the grad housing will be younger than us (both parents and kids). This is because we are on the high older end of the age range for students in the program due to DH's military commitment. So my kids would likely be the oldest in the grad housing and among the few elementary aged kids. Most will be in the 0-3/4 age range like my DD2.
-This is a very small-town area (nearest metro area is 90 mins away) and the other 2 areas we would live in (where schools are 10/10 would actually be closer to the college for my DH. I can also still be involved in the partners group (which is extremely active) and do all the activities with them regardless of where I live. So while I won't be living in the grad housing I will still be well-connected to the families in the area affiliated with the grad program.
-We will be involved in religious community there which is also small (though bigger than where I currently live) and young with lots of kids, and part of the college community as well (Jewish community combined with Hillel). My oldest will attend Sunday and Hebrew school and my middle will attend Sunday school.
-I'm also going to look into the test scores and call the low-performing school district and try and figure out why the scores at this school are so low. It's not diversity (85% white at the 3 school) or language based (less than 10 students qualify as LEP). The only factor I can see is SES. The low school is at 22% free/reduced lunch. The in-town school is <1%.
-I am going to call the "good" school district today because they do allow transfers if you pay tuition. I'm not interested in paying out the wazoo but if it is around the difference in housing costs we'd pay living in town vs. grad housing it is something I will need to explore. I think it will be much more than we are willing to pay, though.

I know scores don't tell the whole story but in my experience the 7-8-9-10 schools are in fact generally very good schools. I think scores do indicate higher achievement in general and while a middle score might need investigating, a 3 is a red flag. When I taught I would say that 3 of the schools I taught at would be schools I would generally not want to send my children to...just looked up and those schools are ranked 5-7-7. So to me, a 3 is an indicator of something not good.

[wellyes]

Good update, I think you are asking all the right questions. I think the fact that you will be part of a religious community helps a lot, if you decide against student housing.


-I'm also going to look into the test scores and call the low-performing school district and try and figure out why the scores at this school are so low. It's not diversity (85% white at the 3 school) or language based (less than 10 students qualify as LEP). The only factor I can see is SES. The low school is at 22% free/reduced lunch. The in-town school is <1%.For perspective.... one of the local elementary school has a similar free/reduced lunch % and some ESL students and is a 6. And is reportedly very good, according to parents. My hometown elementary, which is 50% free lunch (not diverse, very rural) is a 5.

[crl]

Sounds like you have a great handle on the things to consider on both school and community. I think it makes a big difference that you will have a religious community with kids more the ages of your kids.

Catherine

[hopeful_mama]

Other posters have given better advice about schools than I could, but one thought I haven't seen mentioned: if you stay in grad student housing, would you be saving enough money to make a difference in getting a better house in a better school district whenever you move on from here? E.g., if putting up with a not-so-great school district for a few years would likely enable my kids to spend the majority of their time later in a better school district than otherwise, that would be something I'd seriously want to consider.

Good luck!

[bisous]

I don't put a ton of stock in school ratings (we've been to 7, 9 and 10 in the past year and half and all were fine!) but 3 is really low! How do they get that low? In an adjacent community there are a few schools that low but they are something like 60% ESOL kids and a much higher percentage of free lunches. I wonder what the story is there?

With your larger (older) family and the possibility of close religious community I think maybe SFH will be fine for you. I think you'd be a lot happier with the schools too and that seems to be really important to you.

[Globetrotter]

I wouldn't go crazy with ratings but, like PPs said, 3 is quite low. Personally, I would like to avoid it if I could. I suspect your neighbors in the school housing will have younger kids so I'm not sure that would be the perfect solution. I think you are wise to talk to others in the program currently to get their perspective, and also check out the other neighborhoods to see if you would fit in. If the schools are good, those neighborhoods might be full of kids.

Have you tried posting on a city-data forum? I know it's a small town but you never know..

It's great that you have the partner group and religious group for support!

[speo]

I'd go for the higher ranked schools because the discrepancy in ranking is so large, and 3 is pretty darn low. Two years of elementary school is a pretty significant block of time, and if the ranking is based on low standardized test scores, there is a risk that the curriculum is going to be pretty basic. Also, I wonder if most of the married students living in housing have younger kids as the school may be a disincentive to those who older kids. You are likely to meet a lot of people quickly with kids in elementary school regardless of where you live.


I have to agree with all of this. I would most likely go with the better school. A 3 is so low!! And your kids being older would mean that they may not really connect with other kids in the student housing anyways. Plus you will meet people at school.

[123LuckyMom]

Reading your latest post, I would not do the grad housing. Your little one will have friends, but not the older one. Since you'll still have friendships and community outside the grad school housing, I'd choose the better schools, especially if you really can afford it.

[nfowife]

Thank you all again for your input. Here's what I've done today:
-called the "better" school district to inquire about in out of district transfer in. $17000 per kid per year!! Wowza.
-Called and then emailed the superintendent of the "mediocre" school district to inquire about the school and test scores. I asked her why, when both schools have virtually the same demographics (both racially and socioeconomically) does one school have much higher test scores and the other one (my prospective school) have such low ones? I asked her if I am missing something since I am not familiar with the area currently. We'll see what her response is.... I also inquired about transferring within the district to the better school (9 on greatschools) and was told I would have to get principal approval on both sides as to my reasoning- have to have a good reason- and there has to be room. I think room is not the issue but probably my reasoning for it is not going to be justified in their eyes.
-have reached out to a few parents whose kids attend mediocre school who are not related to the university that I found through a (just joined) yahoo parents group that seems quite active.

I would say the difference each month would be about $800-$1000/month in terms of cost living in grad housing or in town. Because heat is included in the grad housing and that is a big deal. Financially we could afford either option.