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♥ms.pacman♥
02-17-2013, 08:50 AM
Vitamix creations set. Free shipping. Comes with 48 oz container (short one that fits under cabinets )plus dry container. Ends Feb 17 11:59 pm.
http://qvc.co/Vitamix-QVC

Sorry form typos am typing from phone

Melaine
02-17-2013, 08:57 AM
Wow! I think that is a fabulous deal!!

♥ms.pacman♥
02-17-2013, 10:00 AM
Yeah I think it is a really good deal. A bit Jealous....they have so many pretty colors :) The turquoise color looks nice. note though this is for the 2 speed one (no variable speed dial or programs). U get the dry container though which seems good deal especially since those are over $100

Vitsmix demo thing is on qvc right now (8am central time)

oneontheway
02-17-2013, 10:53 AM
I must say I took the plunge yesterday at Costco and bought the 6300 which has the programmed settings and pulse button. I could hardly believe it but both boys had two cups of strawberry, banana, orange, greek yogurt and spincach smoothie this morning! I am very excited. The best part was the clean up... actually amazing. I added a sliver of lime with the peel and it gave it a great fresh taste.

I was really debating because of the cost and pulled out our Oster to try to make smoothies but they came out very foamy in order to mix the spinach up enough. There is a huge difference.

This is a great price point. Ours was $499 but I like that i can return it to Costco at any point. I'm not sure if I'd ever use the dry container but still nice to have.

wellyes
02-17-2013, 11:25 AM
Wow, great deal for anyone who wants the dry container too.

Green22
02-17-2013, 12:03 PM
I can't believe I am even enteraining this idea. How did I get into a frame of thinking that this is a good price!? I blame the boards!!


But ever since getting a kitchen aid mixer I realized how much time and effort my old crappy stuff was costing. AND my ninja from xmas broke. Of course this means I'll need to be the person returning something to costco with no box, no receipt, used . . . .

Maxlee
02-17-2013, 12:13 PM
Is this a good model and good price?? I have been thinking about getting one just don't know all the differences

WatchingThemGrow
02-17-2013, 12:33 PM
Thanks for posting! DH wants one for his birthday and we were going to head to Costco for one today or tomorrow, but I've wanted one that fits under the cabinets! Fingers crossed he'll want to order this one!

teresah00
02-17-2013, 12:47 PM
When I was at Costco they had the 6300 demo. He also had the 64 oz container he was selling separate. Buying both still made it cheaper than buying at William Sonoma


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

♥ms.pacman♥
02-17-2013, 01:34 PM
Oneontheway- I got the 6300 from Costco as well, and I too have been amazed as to how my kids eat anything that come out of it, even if it has veggies. We are traveling now (was staying at ils this weekend ) and this morning there kids asked where their smoothie was, lol!


The ease of cleaning make it worth it alone..I will sometimes use it 3x a day and cleaning is not an issue at all. So not the same with my old blender.

Sorry for typos... on my phone in the car!

wellyes
02-17-2013, 02:39 PM
Is this a good model and good price?? I have been thinking about getting one just don't know all the differences

They are all basically the same in term of power, warranty and functionality. There is a model that has more options in terms of pulse & settings, but, it doesn't do anything you can't do with this one. It costs hundreds more at William Sonoma, or a similar price to this at costco. Both in fewer colors than this deal and without the dry container.

If you're thinking about it, I'd jump on this deal.

quinnsmom
02-17-2013, 03:58 PM
I have been wanting one of these forever! The great price plus the turquoise pushed me over the edge. I ordered one even though it said the turquoise was out of stock. I'm on the waitlist - I'll post if I get a notice when and if it ships.

karstmama
02-17-2013, 04:38 PM
i jumped, too, for the cobalt. thanks so much, op, for the heads up! i just hope ds is willing to try some smoothies. he really needs to gain some weight back, he's so skinny after his surgery.

AnnieW625
02-17-2013, 04:51 PM
I am so tempted by the turquoise one (even though it is waitlisted--if it happens then it is meant to be) but our Waring Bar Blender works fine (although) it does start to stink if I put too much ice in it, and to use the high speed to make it crush the ice really well. So asked DH and he said to wait, but then he says if you really want it get it (but it is definitely not a neccisity). Has QVC had this great of a deal before? If you say no then I might just pull the plug with the 5 mos. of easy pay.

Oh I did notice that when I put it in my cart the price for the wait listed item was $429 (or $85 a month) to cover the $30 in sales tax (taxing CA's base rate, 7.75) Just an FYI there.

quinnsmom
02-17-2013, 05:48 PM
Has anyone ever ordered an item on QVC that was waitlisted and did in fact receive the item? I am wondering if I should edit my order and choose a different color. If I get an email in 45 days saying that the turquoise is OOS and won't be back in I'm wondering if they will allow me to choose another color. Not sure about their customer service - never ordered from QVC before.

chiisai
02-17-2013, 05:51 PM
ok... so, of course I have to google... I found that Costco has a Blendtec total blender with fourside and wildside containers for $399.

Reviews are basically that vitamix owners like that over blendtec, and blendtec owners like that over vitamis, with a both having a few "like the other better" reviews.

I like that it seems easier to get everything out of the blendtec. I'm not sure if we'd use the dry canister on the vitamix. I've read smoothies are super smooth on the vitamix, maybe more so than the blendtec.

Re: the 2 speeds on this vitamix, what are the limitations of it vs. variable? Or, what does variable make easier, for example?

Kindra178
02-17-2013, 06:30 PM
ok... so, of course I have to google... I found that Costco has a Blendtec total blender with fourside and wildside containers for $399.

Reviews are basically that vitamix owners like that over blendtec, and blendtec owners like that over vitamis, with a both having a few "like the other better" reviews.

I like that it seems easier to get everything out of the blendtec. I'm not sure if we'd use the dry canister on the vitamix. I've read smoothies are super smooth on the vitamix, maybe more so than the blendtec.

Re: the 2 speeds on this vitamix, what are the limitations of it vs. variable? Or, what does variable make easier, for example?

Does the Blendtec clean as easy as the Vitamix? The cleaning is a big deterrent to the use of my current blender.

oneontheway
02-17-2013, 06:41 PM
Oneontheway- I got the 6300 from Costco as well, and I too have been amazed as to how my kids eat anything that come out of it, even if it has veggies. We are traveling now (was staying at ils this weekend ) and this morning there kids asked where their smoothie was, lol!


The ease of cleaning make it worth it alone..I will sometimes use it 3x a day and cleaning is not an issue at all. So not the same with my old blender.

Sorry for typos... on my phone in the car!

Today, I made an am smoothie (twice because I needed more) and two pm smoothies because DD and DS wanted different ones. The clean up was unbelievable. So easy. This was a PIA with my other blender.

I also really like the fact that the 6300 has a pulse button for bruschetta and other items you don't want blended up. I got the platinum since it fits in nice with the stainless steel.

wifecat
02-17-2013, 06:49 PM
Does the Blendtec clean as easy as the Vitamix? The cleaning is a big deterrent to the use of my current blender.

We just got a Blendtec this week and it cleans really easily. Same method of squirting dish soap and hot water and then turning on the machine. If I use a lot of flaxseed or something I need to wipe it out, but it's super simple. Our old blender was terrible to clean (and couldn't crush ice). Our smoothies are really smooth - I tried the vitamix smoothies at a Costco demo and was very impressed with the texture, but I think my Blendtec does it just as well. And, umm, the frozen daiquiris it can make are freaking a-ma-zing. Hehehehe.

chiisai
02-17-2013, 07:21 PM
We just got a Blendtec this week and it cleans really easily. Same method of squirting dish soap and hot water and then turning on the machine. If I use a lot of flaxseed or something I need to wipe it out, but it's super simple. Our old blender was terrible to clean (and couldn't crush ice). Our smoothies are really smooth - I tried the vitamix smoothies at a Costco demo and was very impressed with the texture, but I think my Blendtec does it just as well. And, umm, the frozen daiquiris it can make are freaking a-ma-zing. Hehehehe.

Thanks for this! From the demo, did you see that there was anything the vitamix was doing that might be better than the blendtec? I think I'm leaning toward the blendtec, with the deals I can find right now.

Melaine
02-17-2013, 07:25 PM
ok... so, of course I have to google... I found that Costco has a Blendtec total blender with fourside and wildside containers for $399.

Reviews are basically that vitamix owners like that over blendtec, and blendtec owners like that over vitamis, with a both having a few "like the other better" reviews.

I like that it seems easier to get everything out of the blendtec. I'm not sure if we'd use the dry canister on the vitamix. I've read smoothies are super smooth on the vitamix, maybe more so than the blendtec.

Re: the 2 speeds on this vitamix, what are the limitations of it vs. variable? Or, what does variable make easier, for example?

I read a good bit about both brands and decided to get whichever one I found a deal on. I was leaning slightly toward Vitamix only because I worked at a Tropical Smoothie and was familiar with them. I think you would be happy either way!

wifecat
02-17-2013, 07:32 PM
Thanks for this! From the demo, did you see that there was anything the vitamix was doing that might be better than the blendtec? I think I'm leaning toward the blendtec, with the deals I can find right now.

When I was debating between the two, I was concerned that the Blendtec didn't have the tamper and I thought you just might need that to really get stuff blended well. Now that I have the Blendtec I see it's not necessary. If I'm doing really hard stuff in a smoothie (like whole carrots, frozen whole strawberries, ice) I used the "juice" function instead of the "smoothie" function. The cycle lasts a little longer and if everything isn't as smooth as I want, I can just hit pulse for a few seconds longer. (I saw the "juice" tip on the Blendtec fb page).

The other thing I was worried about was soup. From what I read, those that compared both said the vitamix could make a smoother soup. I'm texture sensitive, so I leaned toward getting the vitamix. Now I can't actually compare the soup from the two blenders, but I made sweet potato bisque this week in the Blendtec and it was super smooth and creamy. You can leave chunks if you like by using the pulse function, but I like it smooth, and that's exactly what I got by choosing the sauce function.

I also made a roasted tomato marinara sauce that was amazing and easy. Awesome texture.

ETA: My kids are eating spinach/carrots/other veggies in mass quantities now because of the Blendtec. I think it and the Vitamix are very comparable and I'd choose by price/color!

chiisai
02-17-2013, 07:48 PM
Great, thanks to both of you!

jgenie
02-17-2013, 10:10 PM
What do these cost at Costco and do they carry the red? TIA

wellyes
02-17-2013, 10:37 PM
I think Costco's is $385. I've seen white and black there, not sure if some stores carry colors. The Costco model does not include the dry container (though I don't have it and don't miss it.) And only comes with one cookbook.

♥ms.pacman♥
02-17-2013, 10:49 PM
What do these cost at Costco and do they carry the red? TIA

these were/are prices at my Costco (in-store):

5200 model (64 oz wet container) - $379
6300 model (64 oz wet container) - $499

Mine carried red, black and platinum or white i think..I got the 6300 in red. Very happy with it. I've only had it for 2 weeks and so far, so good. We are eating SO much better now that we have it!

The 5200 has variable speed dial (can change speed from level 1 to level 10)...versus the just 2 speeds (low and high) that the Creations one (version being sold by QVC in this deal). Also, the one at Costco is being sold with 64 oz (tall container)..the Creations/QVC one is shorter 48 oz container.

The 6300 is pretty much the same as 5200 (variable speed dial, pulse function) but also has 3 programmed settings: Smoothie, Frozen Desserts, and Soups. The great thing about these is that you just "set it and forget it" and it takes the guesswork out of figuring out how long you need to run it for, using a timer, etc. For me that was worth the extra $120 Also, the 6300 came with a really nice 300page cookbook tailored to the 6300 (e.g. add xxx ingredients, press frozen desserts program, let it run, done). Pretty useful/tasty recipes. Not sure if the 5200 came with a cookbook too.

The one being sold on Costco.com is the 5200 "kit" for $499, so basic model and more expensive, but it comes with a dry container as well.

kellij
02-17-2013, 11:52 PM
Gah! So do you guys think it's a good idea to get the qvc one? I won't be able to go to a costco until summer and I don't know if the vitamix is a standard thing there or not. Also, I just hate to spend 400 if 2 speeds and the smaller container aren't going to be sufficient.

♥ms.pacman♥
02-18-2013, 12:16 AM
Gah! So do you guys think it's a good idea to get the qvc one? I won't be able to go to a costco until summer and I don't know if the vitamix is a standard thing there or not. Also, I just hate to spend 400 if 2 speeds and the smaller container aren't going to be sufficient.

It's definitely not a standard thing at Costco...when i first went to my regular Costco they didn't have it at the store (they had the BlendTec though)...they only have the Vitamix during their roadshows/demos. You can check out the roadshow schedule on Vitamix website.

Like wellyes said earlier, i think the 2 speeds and smaller container are enough, and if you have been waiting for a Vitamix deal i'd totally jump on this one (there's less than an hour left i think). While this is the basic model with only 2 speeds...there isn't anything the other ones are capable of doing that this one cannot...the main difference are the more convenient features like automatic programs. Also, the plus side of the shorter container is that it can fit under cabinets (the 64oz one can't, that's a tad annoying).

i would have gone for this deal if i didn't already have one (i would have snagged a turquoise or cobalt blue!). right now it looks like they only have black, espresso and cinnamon available.

cleo27
02-18-2013, 12:31 AM
Thanks for posting this. I've been thinking about a Vitamix and this seemed like a great deal. Just ordered it in Cinnamon.

inmypjs
02-18-2013, 12:42 AM
Is it wrong that I already have a Vitamix and I watch the programs on QVC? Watching right now...

Rainbows&Roses
02-18-2013, 01:35 AM
Is it wrong that I already have a Vitamix and I watch the programs on QVC? Watching right now...

No! I was asking my cousin if she liked her vitamix (she has owned one for over a decade) and because of my questions she tuned in to QVC and watched the show. It made her remember a function of the blender that she had forgotten.

kellij
02-18-2013, 02:12 AM
It's definitely not a standard thing at Costco...when i first went to my regular Costco they didn't have it at the store (they had the BlendTec though)...they only have the Vitamix during their roadshows/demos. You can check out the roadshow schedule on Vitamix website.

Like wellyes said earlier, i think the 2 speeds and smaller container are enough, and if you have been waiting for a Vitamix deal i'd totally jump on this one (there's less than an hour left i think). While this is the basic model with only 2 speeds...there isn't anything the other ones are capable of doing that this one cannot...the main difference are the more convenient features like automatic programs. Also, the plus side of the shorter container is that it can fit under cabinets (the 64oz one can't, that's a tad annoying).

i would have gone for this deal if i didn't already have one (i would have snagged a turquoise or cobalt blue!). right now it looks like they only have black, espresso and cinnamon available.

Thanks! I went ahead and ordered a cinnamon one. First choice was the cobalt blue, but I was worried that the wait list might not get filled and now I'm really excited, so I'd be sad if I didn't get it.

teresah00
02-18-2013, 09:44 AM
Gah! So do you guys think it's a good idea to get the qvc one? I won't be able to go to a costco until summer and I don't know if the vitamix is a standard thing there or not. Also, I just hate to spend 400 if 2 speeds and the smaller container aren't going to be sufficient.

It wouldn't be worth it for me to have a shorter container. I make smoothies for me and 2-3 kids every day and the 48 wouldn't cut it. I have the dry container but have only used it a handful of times in the last 2 years.

My Costco has the 5200 in boxes by the front door since before Christmas for ~$375. The road show had the 6300. You would have to look at their calendar or call ahead to see if they would have them at that point.
I personally prefer the variable setting.

AnnieW625
02-18-2013, 12:10 PM
......
My Costco has the 5200 in boxes by the front door since before Christmas for ~$375. The road show had the 6300. You would have to look at their calendar or call ahead to see if they would have them at that point.
I personally prefer the variable setting.

See that is interesting because ours has the Blendtec for the same price, and I have never seen a Vitamix sold at Costco (haven't looked online) for less than $400. They are having the Vitamix demo. right now too.

I ended up not ordering. If I needed a blender and a food processor ASAP maybe I would have thought about it, but really I just couldn't see myself using it all that much (and I would still want a food processor for shredding stuff).

FedBaby
02-18-2013, 12:20 PM
Has anyone ground grains in a standard Vitamix "wet jar?" I've ground grains (oatmeal, uncooked rice, dry beans) in my regular cheap blender and it was fine (although it takes forever and I don't do it very often). Just wondering if I could do this just as well with the regular wet jar instead of using the "dry jar."

Does anyone know if a Vitamix or a Blendtec is better at making peanut butters (and the associated getting butter out and then cleanup)?


Also, I know the original QVC deal is over (and I don't know how much it was), but they have the following specials online right now:
Vitamix Creations Variable Speed 48oz = $418
Vitamix Creations Variable Speed 64oz = $439
Vitamix Creations 2 pssed 48 oz w/ dry = $439
Vitamix 7200 64oz under cabinet = $529
Blendtec 90oz = $375

(Compared to:
Costco's instore Vitamix 5200 model (64 oz wet container) - $379
Costco's instore Vitamix 6300 model (64 oz wet container) - $499
Costco's online Vitamix 5200 64oz wet w/ dry = $499

WatchingThemGrow
02-18-2013, 01:29 PM
Like teresah00, I think larger volume container would actually work better for us instead of the one that I originally wanted - to fit under the counter. If we can get motivated, we're heading to Costco to pick up the $375 one today.

oneontheway
02-18-2013, 01:44 PM
I just have to tell you that I think the purchase of a vitamix should count towards an FSA deduction. We have had it three days now and the kids beg for more green smoothies. My DS1 who is the pickiest eater ever even helps put the spinach in!!!

I tried to use our normal blender with the same ingredients but it was different. Mostly the texture and that it became very foamy in order to blend it enough. With the vitamix it comes out perfect. I'm in love.

We got the 6300 at the Costco demo. I do think the smaller container would not work for us (5 going on 6). I also like the on off switch for the kids and the kids love helping by turning on the pre-programmed settings.

I've got to find a really good to go cup to keep it cold while I drink my coffee on my way to work. Also some reusable straws for the kids would be good. And I need more recipes for ice cream and soup. Not really crazy about the cookbook that came with it.

kellij
02-18-2013, 02:17 PM
Has anyone ground grains in a standard Vitamix "wet jar?" I've ground grains (oatmeal, uncooked rice, dry beans) in my regular cheap blender and it was fine (although it takes forever and I don't do it very often). Just wondering if I could do this just as well with the regular wet jar instead of using the "dry jar."

Does anyone know if a Vitamix or a Blendtec is better at making peanut butters (and the associated getting butter out and then cleanup)?


Also, I know the original QVC deal is over (and I don't know how much it was), but they have the following specials online right now:
Vitamix Creations Variable Speed 48oz = $418
Vitamix Creations Variable Speed 64oz = $439
Vitamix Creations 2 pssed 48 oz w/ dry = $439
Vitamix 7200 64oz under cabinet = $529
Blendtec 90oz = $375

(Compared to:
Costco's instore Vitamix 5200 model (64 oz wet container) - $379
Costco's instore Vitamix 6300 model (64 oz wet container) - $499
Costco's online Vitamix 5200 64oz wet w/ dry = $499

Where did you find the online specials? No costco in my state, I ordered from qvc, but now I'm kind of thinking I should cancel and get a 64oz container.

kellij
02-18-2013, 02:23 PM
I just have to tell you that I think the purchase of a vitamix should count towards an FSA deduction. We have had it three days now and the kids beg for more green smoothies. My DS1 who is the pickiest eater ever even helps put the spinach in!!!

I tried to use our normal blender with the same ingredients but it was different. Mostly the texture and that it became very foamy in order to blend it enough. With the vitamix it comes out perfect. I'm in love.

We got the 6300 at the Costco demo. I do think the smaller container would not work for us (5 going on 6). I also like the on off switch for the kids and the kids love helping by turning on the pre-programmed settings.

I've got to find a really good to go cup to keep it cold while I drink my coffee on my way to work. Also some reusable straws for the kids would be good. And I need more recipes for ice cream and soup. Not really crazy about the cookbook that came with it.

I have two beyond picky eaters. What are you putting in?

♥ms.pacman♥
02-18-2013, 02:26 PM
I just have to tell you that I think the purchase of a vitamix should count towards an FSA deduction. We have had it three days now and the kids beg for more green smoothies. My DS1 who is the pickiest eater ever even helps put the spinach in!!!

I tried to use our normal blender with the same ingredients but it was different. Mostly the texture and that it became very foamy in order to blend it enough. With the vitamix it comes out perfect. I'm in love.

We got the 6300 at the Costco demo. I do think the smaller container would not work for us (5 going on 6). I also like the on off switch for the kids and the kids love helping by turning on the pre-programmed settings.

I've got to find a really good to go cup to keep it cold while I drink my coffee on my way to work. Also some reusable straws for the kids would be good. And I need more recipes for ice cream and soup. Not really crazy about the cookbook that came with it.

LOL about the FSA deduction. I agree, so true. Both my kids love to help me put the ingredients in. they will happily add spinach leaves in there, and add apple in there (with skin, which they both refuse to eat), blend it goes, and they love them.

And yeah the vitamix guy mkentioned the 6300 is good for once your kids are old enough to make their own smoothies, the preprogrammed settings are useful.

as for to-go-cups, i recently ordered a few Tervis tumblers for us and the kids (i got 10oz for kids and 16 oz for me and DH). haven't gotten a chance to use them that much but they seem pretty good for keeping things cold. someone just posted about BB&B having lots of Tervis on clearance so you may want to check that out.

♥ms.pacman♥
02-18-2013, 02:29 PM
Like teresah00, I think larger volume container would actually work better for us instead of the one that I originally wanted - to fit under the counter. If we can get motivated, we're heading to Costco to pick up the $375 one today.

yeah, i initially wanted the 48 oz cup after seeing how tall the 64 oz one was. Though i'm starting to double some of the smoothie recipes, given how much my kids and DH just gobble them up,. and so 64 oz seems better especially for the long run. Plus, as DH pointed out the other day, the container spends most of its time in the drying rack when not in use anyway (we use it few times a day) so the idea of fitting under the cabinets is not a huge deal really.

kellij
02-18-2013, 02:48 PM
Does anyone know what the entire height is for the 64oz container on the vitamix? I want to see if it will fit.

Never mind, found it online.

photo_shell
02-18-2013, 03:55 PM
I wish I had a costco near me!!! Should have jumped on that deal yesterday. Hopefully another one will turn up. ;)
Does costco have these deals online?

oneontheway
02-18-2013, 04:03 PM
I have two beyond picky eaters. What are you putting in?

We've changed it up a little but this morning we did frozen strawberries and bananas (that I put in the freezer yesterday) fresh pineapple, an orange, sliver of lime with skin, plain greek yogurt, a couple handfuls of spinach, a few ice cubes. I had to make it twice and they still wanted more. Normally they wouldn't eat anything but the strawberries so its a big change for all of us.

oneontheway
02-18-2013, 04:04 PM
LOL about the FSA deduction. I agree, so true. Both my kids love to help me put the ingredients in. they will happily add spinach leaves in there, and add apple in there (with skin, which they both refuse to eat), blend it goes, and they love them.

And yeah the vitamix guy mkentioned the 6300 is good for once your kids are old enough to make their own smoothies, the preprogrammed settings are useful.

as for to-go-cups, i recently ordered a few Tervis tumblers for us and the kids (i got 10oz for kids and 16 oz for me and DH). haven't gotten a chance to use them that much but they seem pretty good for keeping things cold. someone just posted about BB&B having lots of Tervis on clearance so you may want to check that out.[/QUOTE]

___________

Oops erased the quote thingy...


I'll have to check out the cups, thanks!

FedBaby
02-18-2013, 10:08 PM
Where did you find the online specials? ... I ordered from qvc, but now I'm kind of thinking I should cancel and get a 64oz container.

Sorry, thought I put the link in there for the QVC Specials...

Go to http://www.qvc.com/Kitchen-Electrics.category.4005.html?refine=1186630 and then click on "Blenders" on the left under "Category" and you'll see everything. You can further select brands on the left as well, although I had to "Choose More Brands" to see both Vitamix and Blendtec.

(The costco prices were from the previous person's post.)

Mermanaid
02-18-2013, 10:20 PM
BBB is soooo bad for my pocketbook. I have successfully avoided purchasing one of these because I rarely use my blender or even the magic bullet I just had to have. But that doesn't make the longing subside!

Green22
02-18-2013, 10:35 PM
Thanks for the post OP and to others for enabling. I ordered it, thinking that the smaller size will be great for our smaller kitchen. I do not think I will ever use the dry blender function, since we aren't eating wheat or oat so I need to find a way to use it. I figured if I cannot find some good non-berry smoothies (they make us all itchy though there is nothing so delicious as strawberries!) I should at least recover the cost with a couple years of coconut milk ice-cream making.

I hope my kids can get into it. I am pretty excited though a little sick at how much money I spent. Still, thanks for the heads up on the deal!!