Montessori moms: I need your perspective on an issue at DS's preschol

[edurnemk]

DS attends Montessori preschool, this is his second year in the 3-6 year old class. Over the last few weeks, through a few conversations with DS it's come to my attention that when he doesn't finish his work in a timely fashion he's not allowed to eat lunch until he's done, and then if there's no food / time left when he is done, he doesn't get to eat. So at least on 2 occasions that I'm aware of in the last month he has gotten no lunch. He's there from 9 am to 1 pm, and some days he has extracurricular activities (soccer and basketball) at the school from 1-2 pm. The first time this happened, he told me he later had some of the fruit they have in the classroom for them to snack on. But today he had nothing to eat at all, so he got home at 2:30 pm starving and in an awfully bad mood, since he hadn't had anything to eat since breakfast at 8 am today. I asked him why he didn't eat any fruit, he says he wanted mangoes and there weren't any, and then he said he just forgot.

Now I get that he's sometimes goofing off in the classroom and that's why he doesn't finish his work (he's usually very efficient, but occasionally will have a bad day). But I think that withholding food is an awful idea on so many levels. I'm seething right now, about to ask for an appointment with the teacher and principal. DS gets really hungry around 11 am, and IMO not letting him eat will only aggravate the problem if he's being difficult. I would prefer other types of consequences, such as no outside playtime.

His regular teacher had been on maternity leave, and we love her, DS loves her. The first time this happened (that I know of) it was under the substitute teacher's watch (and DS was having a rough week, I posted about it here, the teacher even asked me if something has happened at home because he wasn't his usual self), but DS it was the assistant who told him he couldn't eat lunch until he finished. Today was his regular teacher's first day back, so I think he was excited and distracted by that, and hence why he wasn't doing his work as usual. Again he says it was the assistant who said he couldn't have lunch until he finished.

So is this common in Montessori schools? Does this really go with the method? Would you be as furious about this as I am?

[egoldber]

Honestly? I'm pretty sure it's against the law for a preschooler to be denied lunch.

I would be BEYOND furious.

[daisyd]

I'd be very upset too. I don't believe withholding a meal is productive. i don't think any type of school philosophy whether Montessori or not recommends that.

[squimp]

Time to have a conversation with the teachers. I would try to go into it with an open mind, as in "I was surprised to hear my preschooler tell me...of course preschoolers may get confused..." rather than being accusatory. My kid would be a disastrous mess if she didn't get to eat. I would be very upset if they were actually witholding food as a punishment and want to nip that in the bud.

[123LuckyMom]

My child is not in a Montessori program, because the nearest one is too far geographically, but I've trained as a Montessori style teacher, and I'm a big fan. I've never heard of anything like this, and I think it's terrible!!! If my preschool did this, I would definitely interfere.

If I were you, I'd take a few deep breaths, and ask for a meeting. Try hard to get over your (totally justified) anger, and ask calmly if there might be some other solution rather than having your son miss access to food. Of course there must be, and if they don't come up with one right away, you will insist, but I'm sure this can be dealt with swiftly and easily. It's probably something the interim teacher instituted in ignorance and the regular teacher didn't overturn on her first day but intended to correct. At least that's what I hope!

[BunnyBee]

I'd hold off on being furious until you find out what happened. I know my kids have come home with versions of things that were misinterpreted by them or needed a little extra information to be complete.

Half day kids (under 5) don't each lunch at school. They are given a 5 minute warning to clean up, then the under 5 crowd goes out to play and are picked up from the playground. If one of these younger kids hasn't completed cleaning up work, the parent would be sent to the classroom to fetch him. 5+ year olds eat lunch while the others are outside, then they go outside for 25-30 minutes. If an older child dawdles cleaning up his work, he could drag his feet into lunch time, but he wouldn't be denied lunch. If he's not done eating by playground time, he could stay and finish lunch.

The Montessori work cycle is 3 hours. If your son is there from 9-1, I'd guess the work cycle is 9-12, then 30 minutes lunch and 30 minutes playtime? Is he choosing not to stay in and finish lunch in lieu of playing? Is the requirement that he *finish* his work or merely clean it up? My kids have always had unfinished work folders in their classrooms. I can imagine a child choosing not to eat and going out to play instead, but I can't imagine a teacher refusing to allow a child to eat. Is the food provided by the school? Our kids bring lunches from home and eat in the classroom. My son came home with a full lunchbox that he would devour in the car the first couple of weeks he stayed all day. He was too busy chatting to eat, then he wanted to go play instead of eating. The teachers warned us about this as it's common.

[happymom]

Never ever ok to withhold food. There are just sooo many things wrong with it. And there are so many appropriate and productive, positive ways to encourage kids to cooperate and complete their work.

[smilequeen]

No, that is not normal or acceptable. Definitely warrants a visit with the teachers to find out what is going on.

[Kindra178]

I don't think it is normal, nor can I figure out how that even works in a three hour work cycle. The thing with Montessori is that a kid can work until he is finished with something at a natural stopping point. Sometimes those natural stopping points get thrown by the wayside due to the end of the school day. The bigger kids at our Montessori school are allowed to keep long and complicated works out all night so they could start again the next day. Is it possible he is working through lunch (so engrossed in his work) and the teacher doesn't want to stop him? I can't see that happening at our school though, because lunch is one of the few times where everyone is together.

[AnnieW625]

preschooler, no but IMHO if you have a 2nd grader or above that might be okay if it is a habitual problem (ie: not getting work done, but I'd talk to the parents first). I don't recall this being an issue when I worked at a Montessori in the mid to late 90s or when I was in public elementary school from 82 to 89, but in jr. high or high school I remember staying a bit late before lunch to get things done.

If it were me I would be talking to the director.

[Cam&Clay]

I would first make sure it is true that he has been denied lunch. Then, I would furious and read them the riot act. Withholding food is unacceptable.

[MommyofAmaya]

Woah, your poor kiddo. I've been fuming about my DS being denied outside time for behavior at his Montessori school (and being lied to about this policy) but being denied lunch is so outside of my comfort zone, I don't think I would be dropping him off again until it was settled? Can you pick him up before lunch for a few days until you can figure it out?

[Mermanaid]

Meeting is in order. I would not go in on the defensive though; just state that you are looking to clarify what is happening and create a strategy to get him to finish work in a manner that is agreeable and benefits everyone.

[edurnemk]

Thanks for all the advice.



The Montessori work cycle is 3 hours. If your son is there from 9-1, I'd guess the work cycle is 9-12, then 30 minutes lunch and 30 minutes playtime? Is he choosing not to stay in and finish lunch in lieu of playing? Is the requirement that he *finish* his work or merely clean it up? My kids have always had unfinished work folders in their classrooms. I can imagine a child choosing not to eat and going out to play instead, but I can't imagine a teacher refusing to allow a child to eat. Is the food provided by the school? Our kids bring lunches from home and eat in the classroom. My son came home with a full lunchbox that he would devour in the car the first couple of weeks he stayed all day. He was too busy chatting to eat, then he wanted to go play instead of eating. The teachers warned us about this as it's common.

The school provides lunch. All I know so far is what DS has told me. He's usually a great student and we've never had any issues. The first time this happened was a few weeks ago, when DH started traveling again and he was acting up because of that. The interim teacher told me he hadn't been himself that day and that he had to stay in during playground to finish his work because he had taken ALL DAY to do a VERY simple task, he was chatting, goofing off, and would cry when asked to finish his work. She never mentioned lunch, but in the car ride home DS told me he didn't eat lunch because he was told he needed to finish up his work first, and that he later ate a banana (I always ask him what he had for lunch, what he worked on, etc). I was upset about this, but figured it was a one time thing and his regular teacher would be back soon.

I know sometimes he finishes work from the previous day. Today he said he was working on a longer, more complicated thing and that he didn't finish so he couldn't eat lunch because the assistant told him to finish up first (I guess he was also fooling around today), and when he was done there was no food left. But he did go out to the playground (instead of eating some fruit, I guess?).


I don't think it is normal, nor can I figure out how that even works in a three hour work cycle. The thing with Montessori is that a kid can work until he is finished with something at a natural stopping point. Sometimes those natural stopping points get thrown by the wayside due to the end of the school day. The bigger kids at our Montessori school are allowed to keep long and complicated works out all night so they could start again the next day. Is it possible he is working through lunch (so engrossed in his work) and the teacher doesn't want to stop him? I can't see that happening at our school though, because lunch is one of the few times where everyone is together.

I need to talk to the teacher about it, to find out what happened exactly. DS insists that the assistant explicitly told him he couldn't eat until he finished, both times. In fact, he was upset that he didn't get to eat lunch, because they were served quesadillas and he really wanted one. He asked me to make one for him when we got home.

Both occasions it's happened on an unusual day for DS, the first time he had been acting up since early morning, it was a rough week with DH starting to travel every week again after almost a month of having him at home all week. The second time was his regular teacher's first day back, and he's been a bit jealous of DD again and acting up at home (we just had her baptism a few days ago, she's also interacting a lot more with people and hence getting more attention). So I imagine he also acted up at school, but still!

[essnce629]

DS2 goes to a Montessori school and I would be pretty mad. Not normal! I'd email or talk to the teacher in person asap.

[wellyes]

Once I'd let go as a just one very bad day, twice is alarming. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

[anonomom]

This is so very not ok. And also not at all Montessori, at least as I understand Montessori. Why are they so concerned that your son finish his work? I understand wanting him to work independently and not distract other children/disrupt the classroom, but other than that, they shouldn't be pressuring him. If he doesn't finish the work within the time he has, then he either puts it aside for later or cleans up and moves on when the time comes.

[edurnemk]

This had never happened before so I'm hoping it was just the interim teacher's thing. She was in the classroom with the regular teacher yesterday to help with the transition.

I emailed DS's regular teacher asking for a meeting.

[hillview]

ever ever ok. I can see if they are say cleaning up that you'd have to finish cleaning up (it'd be a 1 min effort) and even failing that I'd expect the teacher to come help clean up if it wasn't happening. I'd meet with the teacher and express what you would expect would happen and if it ever happened again I'd go to head of school.

ETA both kids are in monetssori -- DS1 has been there for 5 years. We've had a range of teachers etc. Never heard of this before.

[edurnemk]

Thanks everyone, his teacher just answered my email, I'm meeting with her tomorrow. If I'm not satisfied with the answers, I'll ask to see the director. This just seems so out of character from everything I know about this school, they're usually so loving with the kids.

[ChristinaLucia]

I send my children to Montessori and have been to numerous Montessori schools and this is not okay and definitely not some sort of Montessori thing.

I would be enraged also!

First I would ask to speak to his guide to see what was going on. If the assistant told him that, the guide might not even be aware of it - although I can't imagine she would let a primary student work through lunch? At all the Montessori schools I have been in - all students eat lunch at the same time. Most of our assistants haven't been through AMI or AMS training and occasionally things get confused though.

I think in this case I would personally have my husband go in to handle this because I would be so angry I would have a hard time remaining calm. I'm pretty sure you can't deny a child their lunch. Let us know how the meeting goes!

[edurnemk]

I talked to his regular teacher today. She was kind of surprised, and it seems it's not a regular thing.

Re: the first time this happened, she wasn't here so she can't say much. She thinks what must've happened is that he didn't clean up his work, so couldn't eat lunch until later.

Re: The second time, she says she had a really crazy day that day because it was her first day back so she was talking with the interim teacher a lot to catch up on where everyone was, etc. And so she didn't notice that he didn't eat lunch. She did mention he was working on something long and complicated (and she hinted that she disagreed with the interim teachers decision to let him work on that because she feel he's not ready, but that's a whole other issue), and that it took him a log time to clean up his work for lunch, but he did go out to the playground INSTEAD of staying behind to eat lunch. So basically DS decided to go out and play instead of eating and having less playground time as a result (which doesn't surprise me).

She promised me she would make sure he ate his lunch if this happened again. She reassured me this isn't a regular thing, that they all eat lunch, that there's always enough food, etc. She stressed that this could only happen if he didn't clean up his work in time to start eating lunch with everyone (because that's a natural consequence).

Anyhow I do feel better about it and I'm sooooo glad his teacher is back, I never really hit it off with the interim teacher, and I think DS didn't either.