is it possible to teach independent play?

[lmh2402]

DS is 100% unwilling/unable to play alone

ever

i know this is in large part our fault b/c we never forced the issue.

but i am just baffled that he has absolutely zero drive to do anything on his own

if there is not an adult available to play, he will just ride around the first floor in a loop on his plasma car or scooter, asking over..and over and over and over and over and over...for someone to come play with him

when i suggest that he go play for a few minutes alone, he usually screams.

sometimes he says ok and rides away..just to ride right back in two min asking if i'm ready yet

when i suggest he play alone, i always give a few ideas of things to do

but he pretty much never bites

is this typical? can we help him learn how to do things independently...even for just a little while each day?

thx

[SnuggleBuggles]

What happens when you need to shower, make dinner, tend to dd...? What does he do?

[lmh2402]

i literally do not shower, or cook or anything that really requires a lot of me not being able to engage...unless there is another adult around.

this is part of how and why i lean on au pair so much.

even DD...when i am in the unpleasant position of needing to pick between the two, he almost always wins b/c he is so incredibly not flexible...and she is generally such a sweet and easy baby.

[crl]

It was very difficult to get ds to play independently. He was adopted at 13.5 months so our situation was different. But he would cry if I left him on the floor to play while I cooked dinner, etc. I mastered the five minute shower with him playing on the floor in the bathroom. I cooked dinner one handed with him on my hip--I had a callous on my hip from holding him so much. Eventually I set him up to "help" by "washing" dishes at the sink while I cooked.

I did not try to get him to play independently until he was about 3.5. And at that point he dropped his nap and I could not take it any more. So I started enforcing quiet time, which meant stay in your room and don't bother mama time. It took some insisting, but he did comply and he did figure out how to entertain himself for about an hour every day. I did not try to teach him how to play independently, I just put him in his child-proofed room and refused to interact.

Catherine

[mikala]

Yikes, that does sound exhausting. From what I've seen from my son and his friends I'd say most kids are capable of some independent play at this age.

Ds1 is definitely clingy at times and likes as much adult attention as I can give but he also gets wrapped up in his own imagination and will play independently for bursts during the day. He's usually building things, making up silly songs, flipping through books or making his toys talk to each other.

I noticed some significant leap in this right around 3 but I don't know how much was age vs DS2's arrival and the sudden need to share mommy.

I made up some busy bags he could work through while I nursed. I also started him on a lot of pretend play and then stepped away to "move laundry" or something other mundane task that just so happened to take a little longer each day. Over time his attention span grew and I saw longer spurts of play.

Enforced quiet time on the afternoon has also helped. He can choose to nap or play but he has to stay in his room for an hour.

Eta :I also recruit Ds1 to keep DS2 happy while I shower or quickly cook. It doesn't always work but I've been pleasantly surprised by how much he likes to have a special job. I make sure I can watch them and pour on the praise when he does a good job. There may or may not be sporadic treats involved when he does an especially good job, :bag: but if it gets me a shower.... I'm just not sure how well this will work now that the baby is mobile.

[Sweetum]

does he do art/crafts? I found out that DS is willing to do easy stuff and non-messy stuff. So, I started looking for activities that are under his age (4 now but I look for 3 to 3.5 year old stuff). and this is just so he can do it by himself - stickers, for example. I handful of foam ones, and he does it. try something easy that he can be successful at.
how about chores? will he sort spoons? will he trasfer cclothes from washer to dryer? will he transfer/dump them from dryer to bed?
will he do jigsaw puzzles?
will he read books by himself? maybe a book that is recorded on cd to listen and read along?
You probably tried these, but you probably didn't. I do ignore DS sometimes ad I know he does nothing for a bit, but after a while doin nothing gets to him too LOL and then I suggest an activity. sometimes he'll put out a puzzle or something. but yeah, most of the times he cannot play by himself.
ETA: may I ask what would happen if you did take a shower without another adult to engage?

[elektra]

I remember being terrified when our nanny was scheduled to take the rest of the summer off, leaving me with both newborn DS and 2 yo DD.
But we just figured it out. I just think you have not yet had to be forced into caring for both kids, but you will figure it out too.
My kids can play independently however, I cannot leave them alone too long if I have to do something (shower, cook) now unless I want to have a lot of interruptions about who is not playing fair, etc.
I will take a couple of toys out if I want them to do something. I have also learned that little craft kits can keep them busy for awhile. The latest one we had was a thing where you cut up foam and screw it together like wood.
And to be perfectly honest, I turn the TV for 30 minute blocks of time when I need to really get something done uninterrupted.

[Momit]

Ask him to "help" you put silverware in the dishwasher, wash vegetables, set the table, sweep, carry laundry to his room. It may take a little longer but at least he's part of what you're doing so you don't have to entertain him.

Stickers, stamp sets, other crafts he can do near you but not with you.

And start small - 5 minutes at a time or so. Praise him when he does a good job and give him attention before he asks for it.

It may be just a matter of finding something that really captures his interest and attention. For DS that was/is his train table.

[boolady]

Ask him to "help" you put silverware in the dishwasher, wash vegetables, set the table, sweep, carry laundry to his room. It may take a little longer but at least he's part of what you're doing so you don't have to entertain him.

Stickers, stamp sets, other crafts he can do near you but not with you.

And start small - 5 minutes at a time or so. Praise him when he does a good job and give him attention before he asks for it.

It may be just a matter of finding something that really captures his interest and attention. For DS that was/is his train table.

These are really good ideas. DD, even at almost 6.5, really likes if DH or I play with her, and especially when she and I get home at dinnertime, will give me a really hard time about it. I don't mind playing with her, but I've just come in and have a bazillion things to do, including make dinner, start a load of laundry, etc. Some days, she has to suck it up. And I feel bad about it, because I haven't been with her all day; however, to be fair, she's been with people who have been playing/interacting with her all day-- her teacher, her classmates, her friends and counselors at the after-care program.

One thing that does work really well with DD is that, as momit suggested, she likes to help. She loves to fold rags and cloth napkins from the laundry, feed the cat, set the table, rinse vegetables, "scrub" the kitchen sink while I'm cooking right there, sometimes "help" me cook, etc. I think it's the interaction she craves more than the actual play together.

[elephantmeg]

we started with stuff like playdough and I would get him started on that and play a while and then go and make a phone call leaving him to play a few minutes by himself. I found that at that age I would need to set up an activity and be nearby but at some point I could nurse the baby, read a book etc while he did it. And then eventually DD was old enough to play with and they played together

[BunnyBee]

Montessori primary was great for helping build independence! The asking five million times drives me insane. I read something about slowly building up the time, starting at a minute with a timer. You can't ask/whine or the timer starts over. From what I remember, 5 minutes was the magic number because it gave kids the opportunity to get interested/invested in their own activity. Is he in any therapy? This could be something to get his OT (or whomever) to assist.

I'll google and see if I can find the above. It was a few years ago...

ETA: I can't find the thing I was remembering while searching on my phone, but there are tons of ideas. Special toys, etc. This came up in google and although it's geared toward autistic kids, it might help?
http://sper.usu.edu/ASSERT/ucsdhandout.pdf

[scrooks]

Does it work to start him on something and then sneak away? Are there any toys he REALLY likes? I think I have lucked out with both mine (DS has been playing happily with his lightening McQueen and Mack toys for the past 20 mins.). I would say try to force him to play one his own as much as possible and dont always give in. And also realize as soon as your dd is up and moving he will have an instant playmate (honestly that is one of the best things about having 2!!).

[Carrots]

I hear you!! When I need time to do something, I will pull out the playdoh, water beads, colored rice in a big bin with scoops and bowls. She loved to clean with Windex, so I give her a little spray bottle and rag (no flames for letting my kid play with Windex please) and she will wipe down the entire kitchen. She loves art and makes "sets" which is basically paper dolls.

This website has been wonderful for making paper "sets". http://madebyjoel.com/tag/printable-toys

[wendibird22]

I do think some of it is disposition. DD1 always wants someone to play with her, color with her, craft with her. DD2 will just entertain herself. I couldn't wait for the day when DD2 was old enough to be DD1s playmate. Turns out, DD1 and DD2 don't like to do the same things so DD1 still asks DH and I to play with her cause DD2 doesn't like getting told what to play by DD1. We often try to incorporate DD1 into what we are doing, help her do what she wants to do independently but in the same room/location as us, or set a timeframe for us to be 100% engaged with her and after she has to give us time/space to get something done (like shower or laundry).

[Multimama]

This isn't super helpful now, but maybe it will give you some hope: My DS1 was/is like this and getting older has really helped him. I don't know if you can teach it, but I do know that it gets better with time. School-type settings will be good for helping with this too as he gets older.

[lizzywednesday]

...She loved to clean with Windex, so I give her a little spray bottle and rag (no flames for letting my kid play with Windex please)
...]

HA! Mine does, too, except I give her Method glass cleaner instead of Windex because that's what I buy.

[lmh2402]

thanks, guys

good ideas and stuff to try

yes, he does love to help - i do have him help set the table and or *fold* (ha) things

but he often sees these things solely as a quid pro quo - i'll "help" you fold and now it's time (like five minutes into task) for you to play my game

i am keeping fingers crossed that as he gets older, this improves

partly b/c it's driving me crazy

and partly b/c i'm honestly concerned that he seems to have little to no drive or capacity (not sure which) to come up with stuff on his own. like he doesn't do much imaginative play

even when playing with me/DH/au pair... his play...and what he wants us to play...is almost always just racing cars & trucks around. there is usually no evolution of this, unless we create it - like, "oh, let's pretend that we're racing to the farm to put out the fire at the barn!," etc, etc

he will immediately jump on those ideas, and seems excited by them. but never comes up with them on his own and doesn't usually evolve them past what we said.

i keep waiting for him to want to pick up some blocks or legos and create some pretend place, or hear him talking to an imaginary friend, or cook up a feast in his kitchen.

but really all he does is race cars up and down. back and forth.

oh...and ask question after question about strange language-based things...here are a few from the last few days:

"why is Christmas not CH-is-T-mas?" (same with the name Christine)
"why is exit not spelled EGGS-it?"
"why does the I in Doritos make an *E* sound?"
"why is the d in Wednesday silent?"

i don't know the answer to these questions. and frankly, i don't care. i'm not going to start looking these things up as i feel like it just feeds the strangeness. i tell him i'm not sure. and he just keeps asking. over and over. like he'll wait five minutes. or sometimes he'll wait five days. and then he'll ask again. and of course, i still don't know.

is any (all?) of this concerning?

thx

[boltfam]

thanks, guys

good ideas and stuff to try

yes, he does love to help - i do have him help set the table and or *fold* (ha) things

but he often sees these things solely as a quid pro quo - i'll "help" you fold and now it's time (like five minutes into task) for you to play my game

i am keeping fingers crossed that as he gets older, this improves

partly b/c it's driving me crazy

and partly b/c i'm honestly concerned that he seems to have little to no drive or capacity (not sure which) to come up with stuff on his own. like he doesn't do much imaginative play

even when playing with me/DH/au pair... his play...and what he wants us to play...is almost always just racing cars & trucks around. there is usually no evolution of this, unless we create it - like, "oh, let's pretend that we're racing to the farm to put out the fire at the barn!," etc, etc

he will immediately jump on those ideas, and seems excited by them. but never comes up with them on his own and doesn't usually evolve them past what we said.

i keep waiting for him to want to pick up some blocks or legos and create some pretend place, or hear him talking to an imaginary friend, or cook up a feast in his kitchen.

but really all he does is race cars up and down. back and forth.

oh...and ask question after question about strange language-based things...here are a few from the last few days:

"why is Christmas not CH-is-T-mas?" (same with the name Christine)
"why is exit not spelled EGGS-it?"
"why does the I in Doritos make an *E* sound?"
"why is the d in Wednesday silent?"

i don't know the answer to these questions. and frankly, i don't care. i'm not going to start looking these things up as i feel like it just feeds the strangeness. i tell him i'm not sure. and he just keeps asking. over and over. like he'll wait five minutes. or sometimes he'll wait five days. and then he'll ask again. and of course, i still don't know.

is any (all?) of this concerning?

thx

I don't know what others will say about the normalcy of those behaviors, but your DS sounds like my DS (now 5), so it is normal to me. :) I am impressed with what he knows about the English language, really. I know it might get annoying (my DS is super curious, too, and asks questions like that), but that is really impressive.

For the language-based questions, would he be satisfied with an answer like, " That's just how the English language is. Sometimes, it doesn't make sense"

I think the cars racing thing is pretty normal. I think it's a little young yet for him to do a lot of imaginative play on his own. You're doing a good thing by giving him ideas; you're teaching him imaginative play. I know that type of play gets "old", though, when you're the one coming up with ideas. A friend of mine gave me advice to do something with my DS that I enjoy. I often read him books or even did work books, which he ended up enjoying, too. Since your DS has such interest in language-based questions, maybe this would be something he enjoys. But like I said, try to find something you enjoy doing with him.

If it makes you feel better, my DS has gotten A LOT better at playing independently - A LOT better. But, he still is just much more needy than DD (2 yo), and i think he always will be. He often needs me to find things for him to do, whereas DD just entertains herself much more easily (sometimes for good; sometimes for ill ;). Hang in there; it will get better. And you're doing a great job. Having a 2 yo and a newborn is NOT easy.

[maestramommy]

I am not completely sure if it is possible to do this. I have 3 kids who are on different parts of that spectrum. There is DD2, who will play by herself for HOURS, always did. Then there is DD1, who still has trouble, though she has gotten better now that she can read and play computer games, and knows she needs ALONE time to decompress. DD3 is in the middle. She is able to play by herself for unpredictable spells, When she can't, she CAN'T and I might as well forget about getting anything done.

[acmom]

PPs gave lots of good suggestions of activities to try. One other thing I try when one of my DC is having trouble playing alone is to sit down for a few minutues and get them started in an activity. then once they are engaged, walk away (usually to do something within earshot). Then they will often happily keep going with the activity, telling me about it, while I do something else nearby.

[georgiegirl]

My DD had no ability to play independently forever. Now at 6.5, she still isn't very good at it. DS is great at playing independently. At 3.5 he can entertain himself for a long time if necessary. I think it has something to do with temperament, DD has always been high needs. I could never put her down as an infant. DS was very "go with the flow" and was content to sit and play with toys alone as an infant. It is easier as they get older, since DD can read a book or play an independent game.

[squimp]

My DD is an extrovert. I don't mean loud and outgoing, I mean her inner need. She needs to be in with people at all times. She is 9 and has always been like this. I'm not sure I could have taught her to be any different. Her BFF is completely the opposite, can play for hours by herself and sometimes would rather people not even acknowledge her (when she was tiny). So I somehow knew it was a personality thing. Perhaps I have helped DD to be less annoying, to find things to do that allow her to be around people but still doing her own thing. Sometimes she is satisfied to sit quietly reading while I sit next to her on the couch or cook on the kitchen. I am an introvert, I need a break from people, so it has always been a learning experience, parenting her. Maybe you are an introvert too. DH is also an extrovert (although he would likely not admit it), so I am used to people being all up in my business all the time. :D. I think it's just something that people do, maybe you can try to help them so they don't annoy you.

[Sweetum]

A few more thoughts:
- I had started a similar thread a while back and I for some great suggestions but what stood out was that I cannot simply suggest them to DS. I need to get him started. When he really knows something, I can suggest but then it has to be just one thing, not a few.
- after I start hm off I check back regularly making comments. Of course, I won't disturb if he is absorbed.
- DS was not good at imaginary play and was not much into it. DH is wonderful at it, and so is our current therapist. So, he interest has really taken off. But he is still unab o come up with themes on his own. Therapist says it will in course of time. I am still waiting :)
- if I remember correctly from your previous threads, you DS has an intense interest in letters and words. Yes, I think you would be feeding into his intense interest by finding out the exact answers to his questions, but I would say do use these to expand his thoughts to go beyond these. If he talks about Chrismtas, you could say, "now what made you think of Christmas?" Or " are yo thinking about Christmas and you present?" Etc. don't thwart but lead into more, and very explicitly so he is aware that you are not redirecting but showing him how else his brain could use what's in his head.
ETA: our speech therapist also has us complete a certain number of conversation loops before he is allowed to say anything more that he wants versus staying on the topic you picked. We sometimes have to announce the topic and stay at it. It needs a bit practice but it's a good way to keep on topic and expand thoughts, ESP away from the intense intersts.
- another thing I do is set some time points, sort of like quid pro quo from my end. I"ll set the timer and tell him that I will play after the beep sounds. Tll then you can provide some things to do, or let him do his thing (ride plasma car etc.). I also say I will do 3 and you do 4 then I will do 2. I feel like I want to say be sure you ate in control, not the other way around, but I am hesitant for obvious reasons :D

The piece about language questions, I find that a bit familiar. My DS knows his alphabet but does not spell or anything beyond. But I find that his enunciation of words is very true to the spellings. They don't sound absurd but somehow I can always sense the A in Thomas, the d in children. Funny :)

[roseyloxs]

I have no idea what your environment is like but maybe you can change it up and see if that makes an impact. I have recently been reading Simplicity Parenting and the author believes that too many choices in toys, books and activities can overwhelm a child. Maybe hide away 75% of the toys and books, if he has less to choose from each toy and book will become more meaningful and hopefully in your case inspire some independent play.

(edit, I forgot to mention)..and for the record nothing about the behavior you described seems strange at all. I am with boltfam and find his interest in the English language impressive.

[Multimama]

(edit, I forgot to mention)..and for the record nothing about the behavior you described seems strange at all. I am with boltfam and find his interest in the English language impressive.

:yeahthat:

Also, I don't think when you answer his "Why?" questions you have to know the most complete answers. No need to look it up on wikipedia. To those language ones you could just say, "Because word spelling was decided a long time ago when people said things differently than they do today."

[daisymommy]

When you play imaginative games with him, does he play along with the scenario? Will he pretend to be other people or animals? Does he understand the concept of pretending?

My oldest DS was awful at ever playing independently. I now know that it is partly beacuse he could not understand the idea at all of pretend play, creating things, imagining something on his own. And when he was young and we would pretend to be animals or other people he would go ballistic, shouting "No! You're not a dog! You're mommy!" and start crying. It was so bizarre. But I get it now.