she won't cry for forever, right? she'll sleep eventually...please?

[lmh2402]

ok, i seriously need rational perspective b/c i think i'm having a panic attack

DD had been generally sleeping through the night since late Nov/early Dec.

but she was sleeping swaddled (arms only) in a car seat

as she gets older and bigger, i knew i needed to get her out of these two sleep-crutches

i've been trying...and trying...and trying...to slowly tackle it piece by piece and it's failed each time...and i cave and go back to the comfort zone swaddle in seat

but then in the last week she's been waking in the middle of the night crying and trying to curl forward/get out of the seat. it can't be comfortable.

so we decided to bite the bullet this weekend and just go total cold-turkey. no swaddle. no seat. for all naps and for night.

and it's been a disaster.

the poor baby is so tired. and i know this is not "the right way" to do this. i KNOW she's going to be overtired and then she's going to sleep even worse

but i'm banking on the fact that if i ride this out...for like a week???...she will have to get used to it?

i mean, she can't cry and sleep in 20 min spurts for forever, right?

this has to get better? DH goes back to work tomorrow and then i'll be sitting here alone in the dark each night listening to the intermittent waking and howling.

i feel nauseous.

has anyone just totally removed sleep crutches for their children and lived to tell about it?

thx

[Kindra178]

Turn off the monitor. Go sit in your basement with tea or wine and read a good book. Or take a bath with the monitor off (with the tea or wine and good book). Think of it as teaching her how to sleep, just like you will teach her how to eat, swim, etc. Cookies are delicious and kid might want them at every meal, but cookies are not healthy at every meal, right? When she cries at 4 or 5 because she is afraid of the water, will you encourage her to get in, or take her home? Sleep, like swimming, is a life skill.

[Pear]

Honestly, with DD this approach made things worse. Much worse. She developed so much anxiety about going to sleep that it became virtually impossible to get her to sleep. I am sure it works for some kids, but for others it makes it worse.

[TxCat]

Hmm... no BTDT advice (we did Ferber when DD was 6 mo. old but the only sleep crutch we had to cut out was nighttime feeds). I think if it was me, I would try a more gradual transition. Maybe instead of the car seat, use a Rock N Play sleeper if she could still fit into it - people on here rave about that sleeper regularly. Maybe a loose swaddle. And then slowly transition to the crib?

[TwoBees]

We had no luck with CIO. We tried one night only. DD cried for an hour, fell asleep for 2, and cried for another 45 minutes. Lather, rinse, repeat. All.Night. That was the last of our Ferberizing.

:hug: I'm sorry mama. I hope you both get some sleep soon.

[hillview]

can you do a step wise approach so drop the car seat (not really drop it, just stop using it) and KEEP the swaddle for a bit? Would that help her? So sorry that is rough.

[daisymommy]

I hate to be Debbie Downer but I have been trying unsuccessfully to get DD2 to CIO for months. So no, it may not work.
If it were me, I would remove one thing at a time. I think two at once is too much change.
I would swaddle her arms only if that is what she is used to, and lay her in her crib. Once she gets used to that, and is sleeping well again, remove the swaddle if and when you think it's necessary. If she is rolling over, then you must remove the swaddle for safety's sake.
Good luck!


Sent from my iPad

[lmh2402]

this is the problem- i can't take the seat without the swaddle

she is rolling like a fiend. and due to her laryngomalacia the pulmonologist is advocating sleeping flat but ideally sleeping on her tummy.

so she can't be swaddled

so i tried to kill the swaddle first without the seat - and that was a total disaster. she would grab the sides of the seat and try to pull herself up and out

oh god, tonight is way worse than last night. i honestly think i'm going to have a heart attack. my whole body is shaking and i can barely type my hands are shaking so bad.

it's taking every single ounce of strength to not grab her and re-swaddle her and stick her in the seat

she is not a rock-to-sleep kind of baby - i would pick her up and try to soothe her, but i know all that will call her is to either nurser her, or just go back to the full swaddle and seat

BUT the seat has stopped being so great - she's ready to get out. she needs out

[kristenk]

I'm not sure I understand, but couldn't you just drop the seat, but leave the swaddle for now? I know that the pulm wants her flat and on her tummy (so on tummy = no swaddle), but she's not flat OR on her tummy if she's sleeping in the car seat. If going cold turkey with both isn't working, how about stopping the car seat (which is no longer working for her) but keeping the swaddle? Maybe that would be easier for her (and you)?

[123LuckyMom]

I agree with a step by step approach. First keep her swaddled but in the crib instead of the car seat. Put her to bed as you normally would and soothe her as you normally would, but just have her in the crib rather than the seat. Once she's used to the crib, you can worry about the swaddle, or you can use an approach like Ferber with or without the swaddle.

You do need to be careful about not causing a sleep or crib anxiety. It definitely can happen. You can leave her swaddled for a good long time, too. I think DS was swaddled until 8 months or so, and he was crawling up a storm by then. He didn't turn over while wrapped, though, and it helped him to feel cozy. Your DD is probably feeling very vulnerable without her cozy seat AND her swaddle. I'd burrito her up nice and tight so she can feel secure, and let her learn her crib is a nice, cozy, safe place. Then tackle the rest. Good luck!

[lmh2402]

I'm not sure I understand, but couldn't you just drop the seat, but leave the swaddle for now? I know that the pulm wants her flat and on her tummy (so on tummy = no swaddle), but she's not flat OR on her tummy if she's sleeping in the car seat. If going cold turkey with both isn't working, how about stopping the car seat (which is no longer working for her) but keeping the swaddle? Maybe that would be easier for her (and you)?

no, she is flat. and sometimes on her tummy

she's rolling around and just miserable

the pulm said it's now ok to take her out of the seat -she no longer needs to be sort of upright to sleep

and/but he said it would be best for he to be on her tummy

but you can't control that, right?

i mean i put her down on her tummy, but she rolls off and cries.

so i can't keep swaddle, but no seat.

i did then try the reverse - keep seat but no swaddle...but that was a no-go

[123LuckyMom]

We cross posted. I agree with the last poster. You will follow the doctor's advice, but it can't be good for her health to be getting no sleep and to be crying so much. Keep her on her back, in the swaddle, in the crib. Once she's learned to be out of the car seat, you can work on the in swaddled tummy sleeping. It really can't be an all-or-nothing approach if the result is going to be nothing, right? Try a gentler method to help your DD along. She'll learn, I promise!

[hillview]

I am so sorry. It helped me to remember when DSs were crying at night that they were safe and loved and going to be ok and that this too would pass. HUGS

[lmh2402]

what about swaddling her and putting her in one of those side positioner things?

has anyone used one with an older kiddo? i'm worried she's strong enough that she might still be able to roll from her side onto her tummy in the swaddle

[edurnemk]

what about swaddling her and putting her in one of those side positioner things?

has anyone used one with an older kiddo? i'm worried she's strong enough that she might still be able to roll from her side onto her tummy in the swaddle

I've used it, up until 4 days ago, actually. I had the sleep positioner that we used for DS (yes, I know they're not recommended anymore, etc). But DD spent 2 months sick on and off, and so congested we needed her elevated. We have the sleep positioner that's like a wedge. I even put it over a thin pillow. I was comfortable doing this, but I know many people aren't, we also have an Angelcare movement monitor and she sleeps in the PnP in our room.

DD hates being on her tummy so never tried to roll from side to tummy.

When she was really sick and wasn't getting hardly any sleep, I put her to sleep in the stroller, semireclined, for 3 nights. It seemed less cramped than the car seat, so that's why I used the stroller (Uppababy Vista).

ETA. I'd do a trial run letting her be swadled on the crib, on her side or back, for a few hours tonight, you can keep checking on her, or sit in her room until your bedtime and see how she does. If she doesn't roll unto her tummy in that time you can decide if you want to leave her swaddled the rest of the night. Once she's sleeping like that fr a few nights, ten you can tackle the swaddle part and then move unto laying her on her tummy. Just my 2 cents.

[AnnieW625]

Is she teething? She is 7 months right? No other suggestions, I just hope you figure out why she is being so cranky. Good luck.

[megv]

We had a major problem with dd wanting to be held to sleep. The past 2 weeks, i started putting her down in cosleeper drowsy. She would immediately start screaming but I won't pick her back up. I stand next to her and pat her back and shush. The back pat keeps her on her tummy as she definitely sleeps better that way. Usually takes her awhile to fall asleep, and I am usually shushing her quite loudly as she screams her head off and tried to roll over. (i can't pick her up though - she wants boob, which would have effect of quieting her but as soon as I stop or try to put her down, she would start screaming again.).

She is screaming for less and less time when she goes down, so I feel like we r making progress without completely letting her cry it out.

Just a thought since our DDs are same age...

[Melbel]

IIRC, your daughter has reflux. For our DD2 (a reflux baby), it was painful for her to lie flat. She actually did better in a convertible car seat vs. the infant seat because it had an even incline. If she cried hard, it really aggravated her reflux too and would cause her to vomit. We swaddled her until she was about 1 year old. I also held her for most naps to help keep her at a good angle. We had a whatever works attitude with our 3rd (due primarily to the reflux issues).

I am not sure if they are still recommending sling type attachments for crib wedges (of it your DD is too old), but it may be worth checking out. Something like this (but there may be more options too): http://tuckersling.com

[ArizonaGirl]

Turn off the monitor. Go sit in your basement with tea or wine and read a good book. Or take a bath with the monitor off (with the tea or wine and good book). Think of it as teaching her how to sleep, just like you will teach her how to eat, swim, etc. Cookies are delicious and kid might want them at every meal, but cookies are not healthy at every meal, right? When she cries at 4 or 5 because she is afraid of the water, will you encourage her to get in, or take her home? Sleep, like swimming, is a life skill.

:yeahthat:

I am right there with you, we have done the sleep training thing and then she got sick, so now we are starting all over again. It literally rips my heart out listening to her cry, but I know that the PP is right that you and I are teaching our children an important life skill, but it SUCKS!

:hug:

[LizLemon]

Is she teething? She is 7 months right? No other suggestions, I just hope you figure out why she is being so cranky. Good luck.

I would bet it's the two major changes. My daughter had to adjust when we stopped swaddling her, and she was already sleeping flat. This little one was sleeping in a car seat and swaddled, and is now in a crib with no swaddle. It must feel like a completely different universe in terms of sleeping.

We did find that sleep sacks were helpful, even when they weren't needed temperature-wise they give a bit of that snuggly, supported feeling. For our daughter, kicking the swaddle habit was tough. She had zero problems going from the Rock N Play to crib, but she did miss being swaddled.

I echo other posters' suggestion to do one change at a time, if possible. Either one of these is such a big change for a baby, it might be easier for her to adjust if the change is a bit more gradual.

[PZMommy]

My son had many respratory issues, and was the worst sleeper ever. We were told to not let him cry too much due to his breathing issues, so that limited us as well. He didn't sleep for more than a three hour stretch until he was 14 months old. We put a recline wedge, under his sheet to help keep him elevated. We also made a "nest" (rolled up recieving blankets), that went under the sheet to help keep him from sliding down, and it also helped him feel secure. The nurses from the hospital taught us how to do the nest during one of his many hospitalizations. It helped him go to sleep vs the need for me to always hold him the entire time he was sleeping. The sleeping through the night just came on its own eventually. He slept (and still does) in his crib right next to my side of the bed. He often requires breathing treatments during the night, so it is just easier to monitor him and do his treatments if he is close by.

With my oldest, we were able to sleep train at 6 months old by CIO. Every child is different, and we learned you need to do what works for each child, as there is no one size fits all method.

[Tondi G]

Oh my gosh we went through something very similar with DS1. He was 9 months old and still sleeping in an infant car seat placed into the crib. We had tried the cold turkey lay him flat night. DH stayed up from 11pm to 5am up and down, up and down.... it was a nightmare. At 5 am he brought DS1 to me and said "your turn Mama". My poor little guy was SO tired. He nursed and then passed out... he slept in the crook of my arm for about 4 hours. longest stretch he had ever done. We tried CIO... he cried and cried and cried. Then he started coughing and choking.... I went into him and put an end to it. He was drenched in sweat and hoarse from crying. I felt like the worst Mommy in the world. A few weeks later we did our usual nighttime routine and he nursed to sleep. I transferred him to the infant seat and carefully placed it into the crib. I went to bed. I woke up at 7am.... SEVEN AM! DH and I looked at each other and ran to his room. DS was not in the infant seat.... I freaked out.... I thought someone came and stole our baby! With a closer look DH and I found DS curled up on his side next to the infant seat .... he got out on his own and from then on he slept in his crib. It was CRAZY! I never thought he was going to learn to sleep flat.

I guess what I am saying is YES she will learn to sleep flat. No you do not have to continue with letting her CIO alone. Is there any way you would consider swaddling her and bringing her to bed with you to try to get her used to sleeping flat first? Then work on moving her to her crib and removing the swaddle. I will say that DS2 started sleeping on his tummy from about 3 weeks of age.... he is a tummy sleeper .... always has been. He was also a MUCH better sleeper than DS1 ever was.

Lastly ... my colicky, round the clock nursing, crying, miserable (I think he had silent reflux)baby is now 11 yrs old. By the time he was 3.5 or 4, he was an incredible sleeper. Now he is the most mellow, easy going kid I know. They do grow out of it. It may take longer than most other kids .... but it will improve I promise. Do whatever you have to do to get some sleep Mama and some big ol HUGS headed your way. If CIO is not working for your baby then it's not working for you. You will find another way!!!!

[azzeps]

I'd try a gradual approach. Probably would be easier on you and certainly on your baby. FWIW, my son used to sleep swaddled in one of those "straight jacket" type swaddle wraps, and he used to flip himself over like a pancake at about 3 months old to sleep on his tummy. It did not cause him any ill effects. I guess if you are laying her down on her tummy, that's different, but she'd probably sleep that way anyhow. I think lots of babies prefer to tummy sleep once they can get themselves in that position. Good luck to you. I hope you find something that works for you all.

[twotimesblue]

:hug: I feel for you, mama. We tried CIO with DS1 out of desperation - he was an HORRENDOUS sleeper - and it was the worst night of my life as a parent. DS1 screamed himself hoarse, and hours later, eventually fell asleep standing up in his crib. It was pitiful, and he was SO exhausted the next day, with big bags under his eyes. I felt like a child abuser, and we never did it again. I feel like it took a while to regain his trust and get over my guilt.
Eventually he figured the sleep thing out, and by 14 months was a great sleeper.

If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. She isn't crying to manipulate you; she's a baby. I don't believe that making a baby scream until they throw up or pass out from exhaustion teaches them anything other than that their parents aren't coming for them. I know how tough it is - it's almost 10pm, and DS2 is awake again, for the fourth time since I put him down 3 hours ago. I'll be up most of the night, I'm sure. But, from my experience with DS1, I'll take the exhaustion over the hideous guilt I felt from our failed attempt with CIO. :hug: again!

[niccig]

We had same issue, swaddle in car seat. We moved to crib with swaddle for naps only then got him to sleep at night, then eventually the swaddle went away. Again I think naps first, then night times.

And when DS was older and cranky or in unknown location, I was known to climb in the crib/pack n play with him, rather than let him cry for too long. Luckily I'm short, so I could fit...getting out was always tricky.

[amom526]

If you do not feel safe putting her swaddled in the crib, have you tried just wrapping the blanket around her waist, but no arms? For ds1, his swaddle blanket was kind of like a security blanket. So even when both arms were out, I still velcroed it around is torso. This probably only works with the Velcro ones though.

I hope you made it through the night.

[babybunny]

this is the problem- i can't take the seat without the swaddle

she is rolling like a fiend. and due to her laryngomalacia the pulmonologist is advocating sleeping flat but ideally sleeping on her tummy.

so she can't be swaddled

so i tried to kill the swaddle first without the seat - and that was a total disaster. she would grab the sides of the seat and try to pull herself up and out

oh god, tonight is way worse than last night. i honestly think i'm going to have a heart attack. my whole body is shaking and i can barely type my hands are shaking so bad.

it's taking every single ounce of strength to not grab her and re-swaddle her and stick her in the seat

she is not a rock-to-sleep kind of baby - i would pick her up and try to soothe her, but i know all that will call her is to either nurser her, or just go back to the full swaddle and seat

BUT the seat has stopped being so great - she's ready to get out. she needs out

DS had a mild case of laryngomalacia. We could not consider CIO or Ferber etc as any crying spell over 5 minutes would cause him breathing distress with weird hiccup noises. The doctor told us to watch him once this started until it subsided to make sure he didnt turn blue. Not very conducive to sleep for anyone in the house. We did a lot of nursing. DS was generally a terrible sleeper. Eventually he slept through the night. Eventually.
I read The No Cry Sleep Solution which may offer you some suggestions on changing sleep habits.
I gave away my copy.
Sending you (( HUGS ))