Tell me (more) about Infant Swim Resource

[barkley1]

I have searched a pored over all threads on BBB related to this, but I feel like I need more info! Those that have done it...

-what exactly do they do to the kid?!
-why is there so much crying involved?
-are the kids scared?
-how much water do they swallow?

DS would be almost 4. He loves water and isn't scared at all. DH says he can go underwater for a few seconds holding his breath, and can jump in to him, going under a little. dH also thinks DS could be taught to swim at "regular" swim lessons this summer. I think that's a little overconfident.

Dd would be 21 months old. She fusses and flails around (like immediately stands up trying to get out of tub) every time we wash her hair bc the water is getting in her face :(. She is also majorly attached to me and has a strong stranger danger fear...all smiles until mamas not holding her anymore lol.

How do you think each would react to ISR? My primary concerns are 1. Safety of the lessons (what about dry drowning? Developing a fear of the water?) and 2. them experiencing genuine fear :(

There seems to be a lot of controversy around this method. Some rumors of participants having to go to the ER after a lesson; mostly a lot of complaints about the company's treatment of its instructors, ethics, etc.

There are a LOT of protocols to follow, very regimented, and I understand why in most cases (although I think the three towel rule is a bit overboard). My first reaction to all the medical checking, dietary restrictions, buds sheets, etc was "maybe I should find something that's not so apparently potentially dangerous that my child has to be monitored like a medical patient"...thoughts?

[♥ms.pacman♥]

well i'm sure you saw my various threads from last year..i had both DC do the program at the end of last summer (ds was 2.5, dd was 1.5). what we did was technically called "Infant Aquatics" but from what i've observed it's essentially the same method (10 minute intensive one-on-one lessons, 4days a week, for 4-6 weeks, teaching float/swim/float technique). To "graduate" from the program the kid gets tossed in the water fully clothed and they have to demonstrate that they can float on their back.

Anyway, i think Infant Aquatics is not as rigid/strict as ISR (we did not have 3-towel rule, and we did not have to log food intake). We were just asked to not have them eat 1.5 hrs before lesson.

about swallowing water, i'm sure they swallowed some at first but they both quickly learned to hold their breath. neither of my kids ever puked or anything during or after a lesson. My DS had never put his face in the water prior to his first lesson, and DD hadn't either and was SUPER clingy/stranger anxiety phase. Still.. it wasn't THAT traumatic for them IMO..it is definitely harder on the parents than it is on them!! Yes, the first week is hard and there is a lot of crying because the kid is anxious, the swim teacher is a stranger and it's all new to them. A lot of the screaming is not so much fear but not liking the sensation of lying on your back in the water (reflex for babies/kids is to remain upright, but if you're drowning in water that's not what you want to be doing if you want to float). So a lot of it is teaching them to float on their backs, and my DC hated that initially. But after pretty much every lesson my DC (even if they screamed the whole time) would be happy as clams and said they had fun swimming. Personally I thought they seemed pretty proud of themselves afterwards (especially my DS) for doing something that they were initially so afraid of.

And i don't know, the motivation for me was also the fact that child drownings are really common here in Texas, so i really wanted them to learn how to swim (how to REALLY swim, without floaties, etc). I know many 4-5yos that had been taking traditional swim classes for over a year and still don't know how to swim without floaties.

eta: i should add, there was never a point in any of the lessons that i felt something was unsafe. yes, at times it was really hard to watch...i know one mom said that in the first week she had to leave the room during the lesson because it was hard for her to hear her kid screaming for mommy. but then a couple months later she posted a video on FB of her 3 year old jumping in and swimming across the pool. :)

[twowhat?]

I just put my two 4.5yos through (official) ISR. 5 days/week, 10 min per day, until the instructor thinks they are ready to "test". Testing starts with summer clothes, then fall, then winter (with heavy coat).

For a 4yo, we didn't have to keep track of bowel movements, etc. We just had to make sure they didn't eat at least 2 hours before the lesson (if I remember right). I honestly didn't follow the dietary requirements that closely. I just made sure they didn't eat 1.5 hrs prior. No one ever threw up.

Yes, they do sort of "dunk the kid in" but always with the instructor holding the child. The start by putting the face in the water and getting the child to grab the instructor's hand which is held below the face - this is to teach the child how to keep the chin down/body parallel while swimming. After 3 days of crazy screaming (including one hilarious day where DD1 actually tried to run away from me and once I tackled her, I had to get DD2 to help me get her pants off...all the other parents watching me sympathetically...wish I had that whole thing on video LOLOL), BOTH of my very anxious, shy 4yos STOPPED CRYING. They had gotten over that fear hump. Once child is proficient at keeping head in the right position underwater and opening eyes in order to be able to grab instructor's hands, then the instructor worked on backfloats. Once the cihld could float after being placed in position, then came that hard stuff...teaching the child to start from face down and then turn to a backfloat. At this point DD2 decided she HATED that part and started crying at every lesson again...and it continued until the very end (sigh). But keep in mind my DD2 is my extremely difficult child...go search my username and "tantrums" LOL. DD1 on the other hand never screamed again:) 4yos typically learn faster...both of my kids passed their tests after 5 full weeks of lessons. I was worried about PTSD, etc with my kids - NONE of that should have been a concern! Sure there might be an exceptional child that doesn't do well, but a good instructor will recognize this and either recommend that lessons not be continued, or adapt their method. Our instructor was GREAT at adapting her teaching style to my 2 kids with totally different personalities.

For a 21-month old, I think you have to keep track of bowel movements, etc.

to answer your questions:
1) Yes, they are scared at first. Trying anything new can be scary. But they get over it. Even my DD2, who cried most of the lessons, wasn't crying out of fear at the end...she was throwing actual tantrums because she plain didn't want to do it.

2) Amount of crying will totally depend on the kids. For babies/toddlers you can probably count on crying for at least a couple of weeks. But every kid that I saw who were doing their swim tests after 6-ish weeks of lessons were NOT crying. The exception being my DD2 (sigh).

3) Mine didn't really swallow all that much water. They swallow more air from all the crying. I think babies must have some sort of breath holding instinct. After lessons, they lay the child down on the left side and you pat her back to help burp up all the air. And my kids really only swallowed a lot of air the first few lessons and then stopped. Even DD2, who cried almost the whole time, figured out how not to swallow air, LOL.

The three towel rule I think is actually pretty reasonable if you're talking about 3 regular bath-sized towels. Because they lay the child down on the left side for a few min after each lesson, you want a good thick padding of towels underneath - we used 2 underneath and then one to cover the child. And the kid is TIRED after lessons - DDs often WANTED to lie there and rest a few min before getting up. The alternative is to use a large beach towel, folded up, to lay the child on and then one regular towel to cover - most moms did it this way. Since I had 2 kids in lessons, I found it easier to take regular sized towels - they were less cumbersome to wash/dry after lessons. Plus 6 rolled-up bath towels plus change of clothes fit SO NICELY in my 31 bags large utility tote!! :D

Anyway, after all my concerns and seeing my DDs come out on the other end freakin' knowing how to swim and float is truly amazing.

I'm going to bed...happy to answer more questions tomorrow if you have any:)

eta: for babies they just teach a baby how to get to a backfloat and maintain it. For toddlers/older kids, they teach the swim-float-swim self-rescue sequence so there is the added skill of stringing that sequence together and knowing how to grab the wall and pull up (kids tend to go vertical when they get near the wall...ISR teaches them to stay horizontal, and KEEP KICKING, until both hands are firmly gripping the wall - THEN pull up.)

[♥ms.pacman♥]

The three towel rule I think is actually pretty reasonable if you're talking about 3 regular bath-sized towels. Because they lay the child down on the left side for a few min after each lesson, you want a good thick padding of towels underneath - we used 2 underneath and then one to cover the child. And the kid is TIRED after lessons - DDs often WANTED to lie there and rest a few min before getting up.

This is just so interesting. When i first heard of ISR having kids lie on towels thing, my first thought was, how to *convince* a child to actually lie down for more than 5 seconds? LOL. After each lesson my DS would maybe sit for maybe couple minutes (bribed entirely with a snack) and then i'd be having to deal with him walking around near the edge of pool and getting into things (plants, trashcan, etc) while i was trying to watch DD's lesson. Then when they banned food/snacks in pool area ds would only sit for about a minute, tops.

if it really helps the kid burp up swallowed air, i definitely want to try this out though. maybe i will bring more towels to our next maintenance class. now our lessons are around 6pm which is right before dinner and i wouldn't want their tummies to be overly full. the instructor can actually burp dd really well during the lesson but ds never allowed it.

[twowhat?]

This is just so interesting. When i first heard of ISR having kids lie on towels thing, my first thought was, how to *convince* a child to actually lie down for more than 5 seconds? LOL. After each lesson my DS would maybe sit for maybe couple minutes (bribed entirely with a snack) and then i'd be having to deal with him walking around near the edge of pool and getting into things (plants, trashcan, etc) while i was trying to watch DD's lesson. Then when they banned food/snacks in pool area ds would only sit for about a minute, tops.

if it really helps the kid burp up swallowed air, i definitely want to try this out though. maybe i will bring more towels to our next maintenance class. now our lessons are around 6pm which is right before dinner and i wouldn't want their tummies to be overly full. the instructor can actually burp dd really well during the lesson but ds never allowed it.

Hahaha, your DS is just exceptional:) I saw maybe 5-6 other kids taking ISR lessons, and with the exception of one little girl (3yo) who was just taking a refresher course, all the other kids were WIPED by the end of each lesson and really needed to (and didn't protest) lie down and have their backs patted/rubbed for a couple of minutes to recover. Towards the end of our 5 weeks, the girls lay down for shorter amounts of time. But after their winter swim test (which LOOKED exhausting!) they wanted to lie down for longer.

At first I thought "it's a boy thing" LOL but no...there were a couple of boys taking classes around the same time as our girls and they were equally exhausted.

I did have one Infant Aquatics teacher tell me that their method is "gentler" than ISR though I have a hard time believing that...from what I've seen it pretty much looks the same. And, I don't feel that ISR was harsh - swimming and learning to swim is just plain hard work. Our instructor was calm and gentle throughout, even in the face of DD2's screaming tantrums.

Anyway since your DS has already been through the training, I doubt he's swalling water/air so if he doesn't want to lie down, it's probably no big deal.

I forgot to mention one thing to OP - I really thought that DD2 would be adverse to swimming for fun because of the tantrums she threw during her lessons. BUT - when we went to Disneyland and spent one afternoon at the pool, we told the kids that they had to show us swim-float-swim in the big pool before we could go to the shallow splash pool to play (this is what our instructor told us - make sure they always demonstrate a good swim-float-swim before being allowed to play in the water). We had whining/tears about having to do that, but once they did it, BOTH kids wanted to stay in the big pool and continue doing it...for a good 20 minutes! They actually had fun! Right now our kids are in red cross lessons (same instructor) and doing more "fun" stuff like different strokes, different floats. DD2 still cries every time she tries something new. The last lesson they learned to jump in the pool - DD2 totally cried. But afterwards she told me that jumping in the pool was her favorite part of the lesson!

[barkley1]

Thanks so much for giving me some more detail on this. I Talked to the instructor for about 45 min the other night, and she seems incredibly knowledgable and mentioned several times that she tailors the lessons to each individual kid. So, that makes me feel better. I still have a while to decide, since her next lessons don't start until June.

DH seems to think its a little overkill. Well, for the 3.5 yr old, anyway. He honestly thinks that he'll be able to swim after some lessons this summer at the pool. To that I say...I was taught to swim before my earliest memory...our family had a huge pond in the backyard and a lake house we frequented. BUT...I STILL just about truly drowned when I was in elementary school. I thought I could swim farther than I actually could and got really tired. Thank goodness for my stepsister who kept me bobbing about as my dad tore down the hill flinging his clothes and shoes off to come save us both!

Furthermore, there are two pools within eyesight of our house, and DS is absolutely fascinated by anything water related or that has a drain. DH says he isn't the kind of kid that would slip out the door and head to the neighbors house for a look, but I'm not willing to take that chance!! Who know what crazy stuff kids will do!?

Anyway, just trying rationalize this...maybe a small part of me is wondering if regular old swim lessons would be sufficient?

[wifecat]

Anyway, just trying rationalize this...maybe a small part of me is wondering if regular old swim lessons would be sufficient?

I'm only familiar with ISR through this board, so take that into consideration as you read this.

I used to teach swimming for the Red Cross. Things may have changed since I taught with them, but the lack of emphasis on body positioning and correct form lead me to never want to teach that relaxed a method of swimming again.

I now teach for Swim America. Our goal is to get kids to be able to float on their backs and get to safety, as well as to learn correct body positioning and move through our levels to learn all of the strokes.

As a competitive swimmer, we focused far more on our strength than our form. As a triathlete, I finally began focusing on my form and had to correct things I'd been doing wrong for decades, and finally, I saw my times improve.

I started teaching for Swim America and thought, "Yes! Why wasn't I in this as a kid?" I love our progression and my kids are learning to swim through this method.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

yeah i wouldn't be willing to take that chance either. there have been several threads i've seen on here where someone's kid (3, 4, 5yo) accidentally fell in a pool at a pool party and nobody noticed for a while (luckily someone did just in time). thing is, even if a kid nominally knows how to swim, i imagine the act of falling into a pool or pond, especially for a young child, is pretty disorienting and chances are they woudln't know what to do right away. my ds was scared of water and i'm fairly certain he would not wander into our next door neighbor's pool just for kicks..but still, he could trip and fall in a pool or body of water somewhere, get pushed in, you just never know. i like how the ISR lessons teach the kid what to do (float on their backs and swim to the edge) in case they fell in (with their clothes/shoes on) and they test them to make sure they know this.

anyway, i know a couple 3-4 year olds who know how to actually swim (no floaties) without ISR lessons, but IMO it does not seem that common. when i posted videos of my ds (then 2.5) jumping in and swimming halfway across a pool most of my friends with kids that were same age or few years older were downright shocked.

the other reason i went to these types of lessons were for my DD (the about 17 months)...i don't know of any other type of program that teaches babies how to float.

anyway, maybe i am one of those who is rather paranoid about drowning. like you, as a kid i clearly remember an incident when i almost drowned (i was older though, like in middle school) because my friends & i were playing in a river and we got carried away and didn't realize how far the current had carried us and it was so deep i couldn't reach. i was and always have been a crappy swimmer and i hoped to give dc's a head start.

[twowhat?]

Anyway, just trying rationalize this...maybe a small part of me is wondering if regular old swim lessons would be sufficient?

I think it depends on the kid. I have friends who have kids that are fearless that learn quickly in traditional swim classes. A BIG part of the reason I enrolled our older kids in ISR (most people who start ISR have younger toddlers/babies) is because they are super shy, cautious, and anxious and I just knew that they would NOT do well in a traditional swim class (i.e. they'd go once a week, and it would take them several summers to learn).

But, after having gone through ISR I am realizing another thing: it TOTALLY depends on the KIND of "traditional" swim class you're looking at. Most of my friends who have kids taking traditional swim lessons learn to swim with face underwater, then LIFT HEAD OUT OF WATER TO BREATHE, then put face back down. ISR is absolutely against this because lifting the head out of the water forces the body into a more vertical (and less able to float) type of position. ISR's stance is that a child needs to be able to get into a breathing position that *can be maintained* with very little energy expended to either wait for rescue, or to rest/breathe to be able swim/float/swim - self-rescue. The kids I know who are in traditional swim classes can swim from one end of the pool to the other - but they can't do a backfloat, or don't know how to get into a backfloat when disoriented in the water. So - these kids can swim in the context of intending to swim. But what happens if a kid like this slips and falls into a pool? I bet that child would have much more trouble knowing what to do. An ISR-trained child (say over 2 years old) immediately knows to hold her breath and NOT LET ANY OF IT OUT (air in lungs = float), to immediately look for the wall and start kicking immediately towards it, and in the event that she can't get to the wall in time to take a breath, knows how to flip to a backfloat to breath, and then flip back over to swim. A baby that falls into the water immediately knows to get her body horizontal and facing up until she breaks the surface of the water in a float - and maintain it.

ISR is not swim lessons. It's teaching water survival. They focus on how to get out of the water if you fall in. Head first, feet first, swimsuit on, full winter garb plus shoes on, doesn't matter. Traditional swim classes focus on swimming (get from point A to point B). Now, I HAVE heard stories of "traditional" swim instructors who actually teach more towards the ISR school of thought. But...at least in my area, "traditional" swim classes are just that...first you learn to blow bubbles in the water. Then hold your breath. Then kick off from the wall and get from point A to point B. To lift your head out of the water to grab a quick breath but then keep going until you get to the other side of the pool.

I ramble. But you get the idea:)

The whole reason I am keeping my kids in swim lessons with our ISR instructor is because the methods she teaches are compatible with ISR (i.e. never lift your head vertically out of the water). They are actually Red Cross WSI lessons (so as PP mentioned - maybe these Red Cross lessons have changed over the years).Right now they are learning fun things - the last lesson they learned to float on their stomachs, then flip right over onto their back to breathe, then back over onto their stomachs...it was the absolute coolest thing to watch - my kids looked like hummingbirds in the water just flipping back and forth in the exact same spot in the water..then they swam to the steps. Once they get into strokes, they will learn to roll their heads/body to the side to get a breath, maintaining that horizontal position in the water.