How do you know when to discipline a toddler?

[KLD313]

Other than my own kids I've never really been around children so sometimes I feel like idk what's appropriate for age and what's not. Also, I'm pretty laid back and not a lot bothers me. I feel like if DD isn't about to hurt herself, her brother, the dogs or someone else, it's ok.

She has tantrums but they're few and far between and very short-lived, she'll throw herself on the floor for a minute the she's good to go. The more tired she is the more she'll do this. I tend to ignore.

So, I started a moms group and there's one mom with a 2 year old that I've hung out with twice. We have different parenting styles. Both times DD didn't want to leave where we were and she screamed and pitched a fit, after a minute it was over and she was fine. This mother keeps telling me I should do time outs with her. I just feel like she's 2.5, was having fun and doesn't want to stop. She was also exhausted which didn't help matters.

Is this something you would discipline for? Am I doing her a disservice or will she just grow out of it?

[wellyes]

You know your daughter. I don't think time outs are inappropriate at 2.5, but time outs shouldn't be for every situation that is imperfect. If she flips out for a minute, then moves on-- that is probably preferable to escalating and prolonging the situation it by discipline.

I have friends who are very strict with their kids, and other much less so, and by the time the kids are 4-5 it evens out. Both styles work in their own ways (or fail to work..... ) equally

[brittone2]

I don't believe in punishing a tantrum. With toddlers, it usually happens more when they are tired, hungry, thirsty, bored, etc. so we focus on addressing that.

By the time they have a tantrum, the teaching moment is usually gone because they are in fight or flight mode. They just aren't in a space to be receptive to teaching.

We discipline, but I don't believe at that age that discipline has to equal punishment.

I try to be attentive to when they are starting to deteriorate. If I know we are heading down that road, I try to proactively deal with the issue (get home for the nap even if I don't feel like it, get DC something to eat, give them my attention for a bit if they are bored).

SHe'll grow out of it :) We do sometimes reflect feelings (doesn't work for all kids but worked well for mine). I wait until they are done with the tantrum and then say something like, "you were angry that you couldn't have the X. You really wanted to play with it. That wasn't safe/We had to go/whatever fits the situation.

It doesn't work right away but over time my kids were better able to articulate what they were feeling without flipping out.

To this day, my middle child is very emotional when she needs to eat. Give her some food, and her whole attitude does a 180.

[brittone2]

I have friends who are very strict with their kids, and other much less so, and by the time the kids are 4-5 it evens out. Both styles work in their own ways (or fail to work..... ) equally
Agree with this. When parents are consistent and involved, things generally even out, IME. Yes, there are situations where you need to *intervene* but that doesn't necessarily mean a punishment or time out is needed.

If my kid is having a disruptive tantrum, I would probably remove them if I could do so, and I'd take them outside to avoid disrupting others depending on the situation. I wouldn't bother for a minute long tantrum.

[bostonsmama]

Temper tantrums are a hard time to discipline (or punish). I rarely, if ever, punish during a tantrum. I try to diffuse, distract, and attend to her underlying need. Almost always a big hug, eye contact, and rocking her in my lap will help. Once she's calm and sees that I'm on her side, we can "discuss" why mommy needs her compliance...or distract her with something else she's looking forward to. As DD becomes more verbal, I can see needs to just pick her up and remove her from the situation. Today, she was past due for a nap, throwing a tantrum about going to bed b/c my mom was in town, and I just picked her up, kissed her and put her bed. She begged for books (my weakness), but b/c we have a no hitting mommy rule, I explained there were no books today because she hit me. I told her if she wanted a book tomorrow, she would have to be nice, agreeable, and obedient (ala--take my hand/put the blocks down/come to bed).

I really try not to do too many time-outs. I read Danny Silk's Loving Our Kids On Purpose, and so I offer two choices I'm okay with when asking for obedience/compliance. If I put her in a time-out, she starts testing me, and I choose not to get caught in a battle of testing and wills as she defiantly creeps away from her time-out chair, starts playing with stuff near her, etc. I find that I'm a happier, calmer mommy when I don't have to ratchet up the punishment when she doesn't adhere to the first punishment (time out).

Figure out in your own mind the balance between giving grace and being a doormat. Consistency is the most important thing (not giving into tantrums, not caving when you implement a consequence, or not following through with threats of consequences) with children. However, I always resort to grace and mercy when I see a contrite heart and genuine remorse. I don't think that's being inconsistent.

[BayGirl2]

I don't believe in punishing a tantrum. With toddlers, it usually happens more when they are tired, hungry, thirsty, bored, etc. so we focus on addressing that.

By the time they have a tantrum, the teaching moment is usually gone because they are in fight or flight mode. They just aren't in a space to be receptive to teaching.

We discipline, but I don't believe at that age that discipline has to equal punishment.

snip..

This is how I feel. We do what I'd consider "discipline" starting after 1 year. My DD is 18 months and already old enough to recognize boundaries and follow directions. To me that's when discipline becomes necessary, but not necessarily through punishment. We may very occasionally give her a short time out for doing something like hitting the dog. That would be more about removing her from the situation for a short time and emphasizing how its not appropriate.

We handle tantrum-like behavior you described by ignoring it. Neither of my kids really have true tantrums, and I can't say if that's because of their temperment or the fact that we've never once given in to crying or tantrum like behavior. (DH and I are both hardasses on that point.) I believe in punishing actions and choices, not feelings, and tantrums are an expression of feelings to me.

So I think you handled the above situation fine. In terms of age to discipline it does depend on the child, and you know yours best. With both of mine I had a good sense of when they were doing things intentionally and testing limits and had a rough understanding of consequences. I got that feeling around 1 1/2 for both of mine.

ETA: Certain things in our house pretty much always warrant a time out. Hitting is one of them, or other things dangerous to others. Crying and screaming and general dawdling tend to result in either compassionate discussion or warnings of consequences and consistent enforcement (no book before bed because you didn't put your pj's on, for instance).

[bostonsmama]

Oh, and some good suggestions I heard recently for winding down playdates or playtime:

1. Warn your child 15 minutes (for longer playtimes) and 5 minutes out that you'll be leaving/wrapping up playtime. That way older kids don't decide to start a new Lego project or build a fort from sticks that'll never get finished before you go. Offer shorter games to bridge the gap.

2. Make clear what your expectations are and give them something to look forward to: "In 5 minutes, we're going to help Ms. X clean up the blocks and puppets we took out. Then, we're going to get our shoes on, put on our coats, thank our hosts, and get in the car so we can go home and have your favorite lunch: apples and peanut butter! Do you need help finding the matchbox cars you brought?"

3. For young kids, play a favorite song that last a finite amount of time (on your iPhone or home stereo). Tell your child that at the end of the song you'll be transitioning to a new activity (lunch, nap, or going home). You can also have them set a timer (also on your phone if you're away) so that when it goes off, they're more likely to comply.

[hillview]

I am fine with time outs at that age but given what you describe (end of play date and she is tired) I wouldn't consider that as a time out opportunity. I would maybe think of ways to make it easier. I used to tell DS1 (before we went into a play date) that we had a treat in the car for after the playdate. So when we were leaving the play date I could remind him of that treat so it felt less like leaving something fun and more like going to something fun. At out house when people were leaving I'd let him go to another room and play a iphone game. This lasted about 1 year and then he outgrew this issue and we didn't need to do that anymore. it was when he was 3-4.

[infocrazy]

This is how I feel. We do what I'd consider "discipline" starting after 1 year. My DD is 18 months and already old enough to recognize boundaries and follow directions. To me that's when discipline becomes necessary, but not necessarily through punishment. We may very occasionally give her a short time out for doing something like hitting the dog. That would be more about removing her from the situation for a short time and emphasizing how its not appropriate.

We handle tantrum-like behavior you described by ignoring it. Neither of my kids really have true tantrums, and I can't say if that's because of their temperment or the fact that we've never once given in to crying or tantrum like behavior. (DH and I are both hardasses on that point.) I believe in punishing actions and choices, not feelings, and tantrums are an expression of feelings to me.

So I think you handled the above situation fine. In terms of age to discipline it does depend on the child, and you know yours best. With both of mine I had a good sense of when they were doing things intentionally and testing limits and had a rough understanding of consequences. I got that feeling around 1 1/2 for both of mine.


:yeahthat:

Often I only need to warn of a time out to get better behavior--because they KNOW I will follow through. I think the most important thing about disciplining any kid is they know an empty threat when they hear one. ETA: Although DS1 and DD certainly did/do tantrums. We do ignore, but if it continues they get a time out because I do not want to hear it. Nothing annoys me more than a tantrum.

I don't think I would have done a time out in your example, but I probably wouldn't have let the tantrum play out. I would have picked her up and left as soon as it started.

...that said, I CERTAINLY wouldn't have told someone else their child needed a time out! Particularly one I only met twice!!!! Did you ask her for advice?

[mommylamb]

I wouldn't do a time out for that. At that age, I'd reserve time outs for things like biting and hitting.

[BunnyBee]

Discipline = to teach, so it's never too young to begin.

Punishment is different.

I agree that melting down at the end of a play date or party is developmentally normal. She's tired, plus she doesn't want to leave the fun. I would validate feelings and move her along the required motions. "You are upset because you don't want to leave your friends. Let's thank them for inviting us and tell them we will see them soon! Can you get your shoes and coat on or do you need my help?"

I'm not a time out fan unless it's a true time out (separation from stimulation and a chance to calm down and regroup).

[BayGirl2]

Good tips above on winding down. They made me laugh because my DS is too smart now. When I say 5 minutes he says "40 minutes!" and last week I said we've already done x 4 times and he says "lets make it 5!". :rotflmao: Damn numbers learning at school.

Another tip in terms of setting expectations/avoiding punishment is counting down. I learned always to count down, never up, so they know where end is. We do 5 -->1 or 3,2,1 (depending on my own patience) and 99% of the time requested action happens at 1.
The reason I know the baby understands is that she's fully compliant to any request if I count down, despite never really being "punished" before. Disciplining kids is hilarious sometimes.

[mackmama]

Not to hijack - but what would a time-out look like for a 2.5yo?

[sste]

Not to hijack - but what would a time-out look like for a 2.5yo?

Well, we are apparently the cell block 8 of BB!! We started using occasional timeouts around 20 months - - DD is now 2.5 and we use the same structure. It is all pomp and circumstance. It is the act of being put in time out that is a consequence to DD not the actual time out which we don't expect to either calm her down or be punitive in terms of duration of time-out. We all call it Baby Time-Out. The actual time out for our kids under 3 lasts under a minute -- 30 seconds is quite typical. The child is led by the hand or walks over herself to her doorway, which is off our living room. We don't make the kids go inside rooms by themselves as they find that a little scary. Offender bawls for 20 seconds as if she has been sentenced to life, we announce time out over and go get her, explain not to do X again, and give hugs.

We don't use time-out for tantrums or meltdowns -- the child can't prevent those in the first place so unlikely to reduce the behavior, I completely agree with Brittone. DD gets an immediate timeout for only two things: hitting her brother or throwing her food. Maybe once or twice we used it for something else with the 1,2,3 counting system but we never have to count to 3 with her anymore. In general, time out in our house is for physical violence (or violence toward the white wall to wall carpet in our apartment). For us, it also keeps the peace between siblings -- the other child is satisfied by the time out and will in fact call for the sibling to get a time out or baby time out and is much less likely to hit back or otherwise take it upon himself or herself to discipline. For non violent behavior, we use other strategies like playful parenting, logic-based explanations, timers and warnings, rewards, 1/2/3 counting, etc. HTH. :)

ETA: OP, I must say I can't believe that woman is so clueless as to parenting boundaries. Next time, look her dead in the eye and say, "In our family we don't use confinement punishment measures except to address hitting (or don't use it all, whatever is true)."

[KLD313]

I don't think I would have done a time out in your example, but I probably wouldn't have let the tantrum play out. I would have picked her up and left as soon as it started.

...that said, I CERTAINLY wouldn't have told someone else their child needed a time out! Particularly one I only met twice!!!! Did you ask her for advice?

I didn't really let it play out. It happened while I was trying to put her in the stroller to leave and I couldn't carry her out and push the stroller since DS was already in there. So, DD kept climbing out. Once I got her in, I gave her my phone and some water to distract her and she stopped and we left. Within seconds of being in th car she fell asleep.

No, I didn't ask for advice and I hate unsolicited opinions, especially from strangers. I'm now at the point where I don't want to go to meetups she attends and it's my freaking group!

[KLD313]

I agree with whoever said not punishing for feelings. I just really don't think her not wanting to leave and not understanding why we have to go is punishable.

Let me ask another question? How would you handle taking pants and socks off in a bounce house?

[BayGirl2]

I agree with whoever said not punishing for feelings. I just really don't think her not wanting to leave and not understanding why we have to go is punishable.

Let me ask another question? How would you handle taking pants and socks off in a bounce house?

For our family - you are out of the bounce house immediately because you are not following the rules. Natural consequences. I may have to climb in there and get him, but I'd do it if I had been strong on stating that rule. OR possibly something else (like the next activity) gets taken away if you don't put them back on. Depends on which consequence I feel I can truly control/live with.

For other families - well our neighbor kids run around half/all naked, so they'd probably let it go. I understand to each family their own rules. But I do have to explain to my DS that our rules are different and he must abide by them.

[sste]

Um, my kids got confused and tried to take their pants off in the airport security line one time. TSA was not pleased!

I think you do need to choose your battles. If no one looked upset or was saying anything I might just ignore it, wait until she got out, and dress her. In my experience, adult in bounce house bouncing around attempting to discipline child often does not end well . . . for the adult.

[KLD313]

Um, my kids got confused and tried to take their pants off in the airport security line one time. TSA was not pleased!

I think you do need to choose your battles. If no one looked upset or was saying anything I might just ignore it, wait until she got out, and dress her. In my experience, adult in bounce house bouncing around attempting to discipline child often does not end well . . . for the adult.

:rotflmao: My kid hates pants. She takes them off all the time at home.

Everyone was laughing, I was kind of mortified. When it first happened I was feeding the baby so the mom with all the opinions went in and dressed her for me. She said she told her that she couldn't play unless she kept her clothes on. DD laid down and let her dress her. An hour later she did it again, I went in and told her we don't take our clothes off in public and left it at that. I'm not sure what I want to do if she does it another time.

[Philly Mom]

:rotflmao: My kid hates pants. She takes them off all the time at home.

Everyone was laughing, I was kind of mortified. When it first happened I was feeding the baby so the mom with all the opinions went in and dressed her for me. She said she told her that she couldn't play unless she kept her clothes on. DD laid down and let her dress her. An hour later she did it again, I went in and told her we don't take our clothes off in public and left it at that. I'm not sure what I want to do if she does it another time.

Clothes is not a battle worth staking too much ground IMO, at least at her age. I took my clothes off at the beach until I was 5 or 6. My parents have the pictures. Eventually I started wearing them. Now I won't wear a bikini. Also, fwiw, DD fights going home from daycare almost everyday as do all her friends. Eventually I just grab her and put her in the car. Every parent does the same. She will outgrow it. I want to pick battles that really matter.

[BayGirl2]

Um, my kids got confused and tried to take their pants off in the airport security line one time. TSA was not pleased!

I think you do need to choose your battles. If no one looked upset or was saying anything I might just ignore it, wait until she got out, and dress her. In my experience, adult in bounce house bouncing around attempting to discipline child often does not end well . . . for the adult.

That is a very valid point! Its for sure a case where I'd use my judgement based on the bouce house situation (layout, crowded, etc.) and whether its a "rule" we already had discussed that was blatently being violated. (My DS is not a stripper type like some kids, so if he did that it would likely be JUST to get a rise out of me.)


:rotflmao: My kid hates pants. She takes them off all the time at home.

Everyone was laughing, I was kind of mortified. When it first happened I was feeding the baby so the mom with all the opinions went in and dressed her for me. She said she told her that she couldn't play unless she kept her clothes on. DD laid down and let her dress her. An hour later she did it again, I went in and told her we don't take our clothes off in public and left it at that. I'm not sure what I want to do if she does it another time.

It doesn't sound like its really a big rule for you, so I think your find. That know it all mom would bug me too. Did she consult you before dressing your DD or just take it upon herself? Annoying!

[KLD313]

That is a very valid point! Its for sure a case where I'd use my judgement based on the bouce house situation (layout, crowded, etc.) and whether its a "rule" we already had discussed that was blatently being violated. (My DS is not a stripper type like some kids, so if he did that it would likely be JUST to get a rise out of me.)



It doesn't sound like its really a big rule for you, so I think your find. That know it all mom would bug me too. Did she consult you before dressing your DD or just take it upon herself? Annoying!

Since we're usually home, I let her do it. I never thought she would do it in public. We were pretty much the only ones there so it wasn't a huge deal.

I said I couldn't get her because I was feeding DS. If I took the bottle out of his mouth he would scream. She told me she would go get her. I didn't know she was going to dress her and tell her she can't play unless she was dressed.

[BunnyBee]

:rotflmao: My kid hates pants. She takes them off all the time at home.

Everyone was laughing, I was kind of mortified. When it first happened I was feeding the baby so the mom with all the opinions went in and dressed her for me. She said she told her that she couldn't play unless she kept her clothes on. DD laid down and let her dress her. An hour later she did it again, I went in and told her we don't take our clothes off in public and left it at that. I'm not sure what I want to do if she does it another time.

Does she like leggings? If it's a sensory type thing or even a clothing preference thing, I'd put her in what she likes.

She's 2 and a half, and toddlers do weird things. I'd put her pants back on her and tell her we don't take our clothes off in public and if she does it again, you'll have to leave. Socks are a rule of the bouncy house. No socks, you have to leave. If you were feeding the baby, was it an attention-getting move? Having a friend put them back on without comment was a good thing for that IMO. My group of friends helps each other, especially when there's a newborn. If it's not a safety issue, we usually say, hey, Sally's stripped off her pants again. Want me to grab her? Or whatever. :)

An older kid taking pants off in public would not get a warning.

[KLD313]

Does she like leggings? If it's a sensory type thing or even a clothing preference thing, I'd put her in what she likes.

She's 2 and a half, and toddlers do weird things. I'd put her pants back on her and tell her we don't take our clothes off in public and if she does it again, you'll have to leave. Socks are a rule of the bouncy house. No socks, you have to leave. If you were feeding the baby, was it an attention-getting move? Having a friend put them back on without comment was a good thing for that IMO. My group of friends helps each other, especially when there's a newborn. If it's not a safety issue, we usually say, hey, Sally's stripped off her pants again. Want me to grab her? Or whatever. :)

An older kid taking pants off in public would not get a warning.

She was wearing leggings! She takes all pants off at home if she can get them off. If she has one piece pajamas on she takes them off. Yes, the no socks is a rule at the bounce place. It wasn't attention getting because she couldn't see me. I think she was having fun, felt comfortable and acted like she was at home. At least she had a bodysuit on so wasn't running around in a diaper. Lol.