Anyone with Immigration experience?

[lalasmama]

Anyone have some experience with immigration and INS?

In short, "Bob" and my sister had a whirlwind romance, did the INS interview to get a new visa after it expired, and then he split shortly after "I do". Despite his leaving, he's worked hard at getting her to doubt her family, to make her feel like she's not giving the marriage a chance, etc. A few weeks ago, he flew Sis out to his "new" place halfway across the country, and told her that he was needing some paperwork for INS, and that she should just follow his lead. She pretended to be a good wife while she was there, and left one day while he was at work. (I'm so proud of her! She didn't consult him, she did what she knew was best for her!)

Now, she's finally out of the situation, and wondering how it's going to play out with INS, and, honestly, I'm curious too. This isn't his first marriage in America. She thinks he's going to get deported since she's not going to "support" his visa. Is this a realistic chance? Or can he just dupe someone else into marriage again, and stay? (Then again, he and Sis are NOT divorced yet.) Will she still have to file for divorce, or can INS make it null and void now that it's become obvious what he did? Is there assistance available for people who have been through this for things like the divorce proceedings?

Anyone have any experience on what to expect?

[mommylamb]

DH got his greencard and ultimately his citizenship through me, but the process happened a long time ago, before September 11, so it may be different now.

First, what kind of Visa does he have? DH entered the US on a Fiance Visa, which we applied for together. We then had 90 days to get married from the day he entered the country, and then had to immediately file for a conditional greencard. He was eligible to have the conditional status revoked from the greencard after we had been married for 2 years. Had we separated during that time period, he would have lost his greencard. In order to get the conditional greencard, and to have the conditional status revoked 2 years later, we had to mainly show proof of our financial dependency, along with our marriage certificate of course. So, we had to merge our finances as completely as possible. DH and I have all joint accounts to this day-- with the exception of our retirement accounts, on which we are each others beneficiaries. We probably went overboard on this, but literally we merged everything from bank accounts to credit card accounts to the cable bill. We wanted to cover our bases. We also had to show that we were both on our rental agreement, and later on our mortgage to prove that we cohabitate.

The process of getting the conditional status on his greencard revoked took about 4 years, but that's because before we were eligible to file the paperwork, 9/11 happened and then the creation of DHS and INS getting folded into that and restructured into ICE and USCIS. Technically INS doesn't exist any more. Eventually though, we did get the conditional status revoked, and later DH applied for US citizenship. Once the conditional status was revoked, we could have separated and he still would have been a legal resident and would have been eligible for citizenship.

I'm not sure what Visa your sister's husband is on, but if he is here through marriage to her, he should have a greencard, not a visa at this point. and if they separate, he will lose it. I doubt the rules have changed that much that this would be different than it was when we did it 13 years ago.

ETA: I think your sister would have to at least file for separation before the INS could do anything. Assuming he has a conditional greencard and not a visa, I don't know if they would deport him now, or if he just wouldn't be able to get the conditional status taken off, and therefore the greencard would expire, at which point he would be non-lawful.

Of course, he would have to be divorced from her before he could apply for a new greencard with someone else. Even if that were the case and they were divorced, he would have to be in the country legally to even get a greencard. So, in our case, DH had to enter the country on a fiance visa which we had to get while we were still in England. He could have entered the country as a tourist of course, and then applied for a greencard, but that is seriously frowned upon because if you intend to get married, you are supposed to get a Fiance Visa before entering the country. Also, many countries, and I would assume the US is one of them, keep a MAL list of people who have immigration infractions and will deny visas and greencards to those people based on past history, so if he has been here illegally in the past, that can come back and bite him on the a$$.

They also ask you questions when you go for your interview for the greencard about previous marriages, and you sign forms swearing that you're telling the truth and to lie on those forms is a federal offense.

[georgiegirl]

DH came to this country as an exchange student his senior year of high school and stayed for college. After his senior year, he married an American girl (legit marriage) and got a temporary green card. However, the marriage only lasted 2 years. He was very worried about what would happen when it came time to apply for his non-provisional green card (not sure what it is called technically.). But since their marriage was legitimate, the INS granted him the green card. (They were going through the divorce at the time.). He was also very anal about having all bills, lease, etc., in both of their names.

He had no problem getting citizenship 5 years later. (He's been a citizen 10ish years.).

I think the only way your sisters ex would get a green card would be if she also said the marriage was legit. Sorry she had such a bad experience.

[buddyleebaby]

My sister's ex-husband was seeking permanent residency though her. When they split up, before she even filed for divorce, she wrote to the USCIS and said she wanted to cancel her petition. That was all it took to end things USCIS-wise. He is back in his home country now.

In my sister's case, he had not yet received conditional residency. If your sister has already gone through an interview with the USCIS I am thinking her husband may have? I don't know how things have changed, but I remember that 10+ years ago (when I sponsored my husband) if you financially sponsored an applicant, you were responsible for five years or until they became a citizen, whichever was sooner, whether or not you remained married. Not on the hook for personal debt (like credit cards) but for paying back the government if they committed public assistance fraud, etc. I can't remember the details anymore and immigration law changes so often that might not even apply anymore, but it's something she should look into if she did in fact agree to financially sponsor him.

Your sister will still have to file for divorce and/or an annulment. She is legally married to him whether or not they are seeking adjustment of his status in the country.

[ahisma]

This should be helpful to begin to frame the issue: http://asianjournalusa.com/the-criminal-and-civil-consequences-of-marriage-fraud-p10177-159.htm

I didn't verify the content, but it seems in line with my basic (limited) understanding.

From what you said, it seems like she entered the marriage in good faith - the question is whether or not he did (seems as though he didn't).

[lalasmama]

This should be helpful to begin to frame the issue: http://asianjournalusa.com/the-criminal-and-civil-consequences-of-marriage-fraud-p10177-159.htm

I didn't verify the content, but it seems in line with my basic (limited) understanding.

From what you said, it seems like she entered the marriage in good faith - the question is whether or not he did (seems as though he didn't).

Thanks for the link--I will pass it on to her.

She definitely entered into the marriage assuming it was real. I think he went into it with ulterior motives, based on the way he rushed things--he started the woo-ing very fast, taking her tons of places, taking tons of pictures, proposing quickly, and then in regards to the wedding, she wasn't allowed to "slow down" the planning.

[fedoragirl]

I think the best course of action would be to call INS and cancel her petition that allows him to live in the U.S. based on a marriage. They can guide her to the next course of action. And yes, he can dupe someone else to get married to him even if he hasn't gotten a divorce. I know two people from my old school who went through that. One of them even had a baby with another "wife." It's terrible.

[div_0305]

All depends on his status with immigration. If the immigrant visa petition hasn't been approved yet, then this will be the best way to make sure he doesn't get to stay ultimately. Your sister should start with the office where she did the interview asap, and find out how she can withdraw her petition for him. By asap, I mean today. If he already had his visa petition approved, he will likely prove the marriage was legitimate when entered into. That agency has nothing to do with her marital status, which is a state law issue.

[BunnyBee]

I'd call an attorney with Immigration and criminal law experience to get advice. Your sister does not want to be charged with a federal crime.

[dcmom2b3]

I'd call an attorney with Immigration and criminal law experience to get advice. Your sister does not want to be charged with a federal crime.

:yeahthat:


Anyone have some experience with immigration and INS?

[snip]
Now, she's finally out of the situation, and wondering how it's going to play out with INS, and, honestly, I'm curious too. This isn't his first marriage in America. She thinks he's going to get deported since she's not going to "support" his visa. Is this a realistic chance? Or can he just dupe someone else into marriage again, and stay? (Then again, he and Sis are NOT divorced yet.) Will she still have to file for divorce, or can INS make it null and void now that it's become obvious what he did? Is there assistance available for people who have been through this for things like the divorce proceedings?

Anyone have any experience on what to expect?

Honestly, she needs to be concerned not with what's going to happen to him, but with what could happen to her. The questions that you're posing tell me that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of USCIS in this process.

I'm sorry, all I can say is she needs to talk to a good lawyer now. Catholic Charities in our city offers immigration advice on a sliding scale. Perhaps they do the same where she's located?

Good luck.

[div_0305]

I'd call an attorney with Immigration and criminal law experience to get advice. Your sister does not want to be charged with a federal crime.

The OP's sister has NOT committed any crime in marrying this man. It happens ALL.THE.TIME. USCIS is glad when spouses follow up and tell them they want to withdraw the petition or why they believe the man they married may have married them for immigration benefits. It doesn't appear that OP's sister got any money or other compensation for marrying him. I'm assuming the marriage was consummated. Done--the sister did her part to show she entered the marriage in good faith.

For herself, she needs a divorce lawyer plain and simple. On these facts, NO ONE will be looking to charge her with a federal crime.

[dcmom2b3]

The OP's sister has NOT committed any crime in marrying this man. It happens ALL.THE.TIME. USCIS is glad when spouses follow up and tell them they want to withdraw the petition or why they believe the man they married may have married them for immigration benefits. It doesn't appear that OP's sister got any money or other compensation for marrying him. I'm assuming the marriage was consummated. Done--the sister did her part to show she entered the marriage in good faith.

For herself, she needs a divorce lawyer plain and simple. On these facts, NO ONE will be looking to charge her with a federal crime.

That may be the case, but she still needs to meet with a lawyer in real life, tell him or her the whole story, and get advice that's pertinent to her situation and jurisdiction. No one can call balls and strikes on an internet forum with limited information.

Edited to add: I've seen couples who've married,, connsumated and not cohabitated (for work reasons) get stuck with marriage fraud findings. I've seen couples who've gotten tagged with marriage fraud because of purported errors in their foreign marriage license. USCIS certainly is happy to have petitions withdrawn, but that isn't necessarily the end of the matter. DHS and ICE have investigatory jurisdiction, and if her ex-fiance is a serial marriage fraudster, she needs advice. Period.

[lalasmama]

Honestly, she needs to be concerned not with what's going to happen to him, but with what could happen to her. The questions that you're posing tell me that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of USCIS in this process.

I'm sorry, all I can say is she needs to talk to a good lawyer now. Catholic Charities in our city offers immigration advice on a sliding scale. Perhaps they do the same where she's located?

Good luck.

You're correct as far as the bolded goes; I have no idea how all this goes, which is why I was asking for other's experiences! She's not concerned about what will happen to him, as long as he is no where near where she is.


I'd call an attorney with Immigration and criminal law experience to get advice. Your sister does not want to be charged with a federal crime.

This is where I am totally clueless. What could she be charged with? She thought it was a real marriage, she thought he was going to find work in the new city, and then, 2 years later, when he sent for her, she went... she left when he told her he was being investigated, and that she needed to "follow his lead". They hadn't filled out the paperwork needed for this investigation, because he said she could work on her story from his. She left when it was obvious that he wasn't bringing her there to be a family, but to use her citizenship again. I'm not seeing where she dd something wrong.


The OP's sister has NOT committed any crime in marrying this man. It happens ALL.THE.TIME. USCIS is glad when spouses follow up and tell them they want to withdraw the petition or why they believe the man they married may have married them for immigration benefits. It doesn't appear that OP's sister got any money or other compensation for marrying him. I'm assuming the marriage was consummated. Done--the sister did her part to show she entered the marriage in good faith.

For herself, she needs a divorce lawyer plain and simple. On these facts, NO ONE will be looking to charge her with a federal crime.

She recieved no compensation for marrying him. She thought it was a real marriage up until 3 weeks ago, when he mentioned this new investigation and need for the paperwork, story, etc., and that she should follow his lead.

She has an appointment with INS next week, which was the soonest they could get her in.

[dcmom2b3]

This is the thing that I hate most about my job. I can't share what I've learned with people who I know and hold fondly (albeit remotely).

Common sense (not legal advice) would dictate that your sister listen carefully to the questions, get clarification if she doesn't understand them, and of course tell the truth at the interview. That's just common sense. If her soon to be ex husband is a suspected serial marriage fraudster, and it takes two to commit marriage fraud, well then . . . can't complete that sentence b/c I'd be giving legal advice.

:hug::hug::hug:

[BunnyBee]

One of the first things you learn as an attorney is that there is ALWAYS more to the story. I'd personally never send a friend, family member, or client in for an interview or sworn statement or whatever her appointment is for without a thorough meeting with an attorney who specializes in that area. There are always shades of gray. It's just not smart to go in without preparing. Too much at stake!

[div_0305]

The OP's sister has NOT committed any crime in marrying this man. It happens ALL.THE.TIME. USCIS is glad when spouses follow up and tell them they want to withdraw the petition or why they believe the man they married may have married them for immigration benefits. It doesn't appear that OP's sister got any money or other compensation for marrying him. I'm assuming the marriage was consummated. Done--the sister did her part to show she entered the marriage in good faith.

For herself, she needs a divorce lawyer plain and simple. On these facts, NO ONE will be looking to charge her with a federal crime.

I agree with you, which is why I said she needs a divorce lawyer. I can't share legal advice either. I just hope the OP's sister has told the OP the truth--either her sister is very gullible or there is more to this story than OP might know at this point.

ETA: I meant to quote DcMom2b3 in response to her quote of my prior post.

[niccig]

I agree with talking to an immigration lawyer ASAP. THere are all shades of gray with immigration law. When I went through it (post-911 so Homeland Security), our lawyer told us it was all about doing exactly what you were told and not doing anything to raise red flags - and you don't know what those red flags are, so we were to do exactly what the lawyer said.

Your sister needs advice to protect herself. It's all very complicated and depends on the exact specifics of her situation. She should not do anything until she talks with an immigration lawyer. I can't stress that enough, she needs to talk to an immigration lawyer.

[Zukini]

Agreed with pp. OP's sister definitely needs an immigration attorney even before the divorce attorney. It could get very sticky for her if she is implicated as part of the fraud so she needs to be well counseled. DH and I have done one of the conditional interviews and have another one upcoming this summer. It's high stress and high stakes, and it feels like every question is a potential minefield. She needs to be well counseled. The attorney can also accompany her /them to interviews and face to face interactions with INS. Ours sat in on our first interviews with us.

[fedoragirl]

Just out of curiosity, who covers the attorney's fees? And how much do they range from? I know someone who is going through a small immigration issue but refuses to/can't seek legal help because of costs. I have never needed an attorney for anything but money would certainly deter me too.

[niccig]

Just out of curiosity, who covers the attorney's fees? And how much do they range from? I know someone who is going through a small immigration issue but refuses to/can't seek legal help because of costs. I have never needed an attorney for anything but money would certainly deter me too.

You have to. I know it costs money, but you can get yourself into a whole lot of trouble if you don't get good legal advice when you need it.

My sister was a case in point. She didn't see an immigration lawyer and nearly left country before she legally could - she thought she knew better. I begged her to talk to someone. Thankfully she did and she didn't get on the plane later that day. If she had left the USA, she wouldn't have been able to re-enter.

Not talking to a lawyer cost her thousands in airplane tickets, lost work and several other issues. If she had just spoken to someone earlier, she could have worked everything out. So sometimes spending the money, saves you money and a whole less hassle as it's done right the first time.

I hope your friend can work things out.

[swissair81]

The onus is on him to prove they are married. I don't know about visas (he should really have gotten a green card if they got married), but my parents sponsored my husband when I got married and he got a temp green card. 2 years later we had to prove we were still married to get a permanent green card. We had to have joint everything. Our money had to be in a joint bank account, our utilities and phone services needed to have both names. We were married and it wasn't easy to prove to their satisfaction. INS does not want pretend marriages for immigration purposes, so they make it hell on earth for those of us who are honestly married.

ETA: If they are investigating him for fraud, I would indeed consult an immigration lawyer. These people have zero sense of humor.

[BunnyBee]

Just out of curiosity, who covers the attorney's fees? And how much do they range from? I know someone who is going through a small immigration issue but refuses to/can't seek legal help because of costs. I have never needed an attorney for anything but money would certainly deter me too.

The individual hiring the attorney pays. There is no way to give an estimate. It depends on where you are and what the issue. Call a local attorney (or three) and ask. Likely they require a retainer of some amount, but generally that is set after the initial consultation (free, usually). It's cheaper to deal with a small issue now than wait for it to become a big issue. There is no right to representation in immigration court (not like criminal court, where an attorney is appointed if you cannot afford one), so that person would be going up against deportation solo. With immigration reform on the horizon, I think that they're going to become even stricter with regulations and it will be essential to prove you have complied with every last detail.

[arivecchi]

Just out of curiosity, who covers the attorney's fees? And how much do they range from? I know someone who is going through a small immigration issue but refuses to/can't seek legal help because of costs. I have never needed an attorney for anything but money would certainly deter me too. If the person does not make a lot of money, they should look up immigration rights groups in their area. I know that the immigration rights group I work with offers lot of pro bono legal help to individuals who meet their income criteria.

[niccig]

2 years later we had to prove we were still married to get a permanent green card. We had to have joint everything. Our money had to be in a joint bank account, our utilities and phone services needed to have both names. We were married and it wasn't easy to prove to their satisfaction. INS does not want pretend marriages for immigration purposes, so they make it hell on earth for those of us who are honestly married.


Really? We didn't have any troubles and it was after 9/11. We went to that last interview and the officer didn't even look at any of the documentation we had. We had a lawyer with us who gave her quick run down of our situation and said "oh, and N. is 4 months pregnant." The officer confirmed my name, date of birth etc and that was it. It was a total of 15 mins. But the person before us was a very difficult case and the officer was running hours behind, so I think maybe the officer was just relieved to get an easy case. We probably got lucky that in comparison our situation was very straight forward. I think we would have been asked more if that didn't happen.

I think in the OP's case, if her sisters H is being investigated, this is beyond complicated and she needs legal help. I agree with you on zero sense of humor. You want to do what you're told exactly and not deviate from that. There are no exceptions or compromises.

[mommylamb]

We were married and it wasn't easy to prove to their satisfaction. INS does not want pretend marriages for immigration purposes, so they make it hell on earth for those of us who are honestly married.



That's interesting. Like Nicci's experience, we didn't have a problem at all either with the conditional greencard or with the permanent one. Like you, we also combined everything, even the utilities bills in both names, and brought copies of those things with us to the interviews both times, but all they were interested in was that we had a joint bank account and mortgage statement (which we didn't even have when we got the conditional greencard because we were living with my parents at the time since neither of us had gotten a job yet), and didn't even look at the rest. The woman doing our interview for the permanent greencard actually told us that they are more concerned about some countries than others. DH, coming from England with a Masters degree, didn't really matter to them at all. I thought this was a strange comment for her to make, but that's what she said.

[niccig]

The woman doing our interview for the permanent greencard actually told us that they are more concerned about some countries than others. DH, coming from England with a Masters degree, didn't really matter to them at all. I thought this was a strange comment for her to make, but that's what she said.

Mommylamb, I was told the same thing by the lawyer that went to the interview with us. He said they don't have issues with Australians and visa fraud. Even if they don't say so, I do think they profile or if there are any red flags. Not fair if you're from a country they flag, and you have a legitimate marriage but they investigate further.

It's why I begged my sister to talk to a lawyer and not leave the USA as planned as I knew from our experience, it would be a red flag in her file and then they would probably investigate further. She argued that she could just explain the situation and it would be OK. You don't get to "explain" to Homeland Security. The immigration lawyer she talked to, told her the same thing. You keep your head down, do everything as told and don't make any waves.

[swissair81]

I don't know what it was. I'm sure Switzerland doesn't have a flag on it. It could be that my DH is visibly religious looking. It could be that we applied in Europe and then moved to the US. It could be that my DH travels for a living. They weren't very nice about it and there really wasn't anything unusual about our application. Furthermore, by the time we were married for 2 years, we had a one year old and another bun in the oven.

Immigration in the airports aren't nice to him either. He fell once while leaving customs (tripped over his shoelace or something) and they interrogated him for 3 hours. He wasn't even allowed to call me and I was waiting outside thinking that he disappeared.

[buddyleebaby]

Adding to the tangent...The people at our interview were super nice. We were young and poor and didn't even have enough years of tax returns to be approved on our own and they went out of their way to help us walk out of there with conditional residency. I was shocked because I had heard horror stories, and DH is from a country that I assume sends up "flags" because it is very very hard to get even a visitor's visa.

[fedoragirl]

Thank you for letting me know of pro bono help. I will pass that along. She is getting a divorce too so it doesn't help matters.

[mommylamb]

I don't know what it was. I'm sure Switzerland doesn't have a flag on it. It could be that my DH is visibly religious looking. It could be that we applied in Europe and then moved to the US. It could be that my DH travels for a living. They weren't very nice about it and there really wasn't anything unusual about our application. Furthermore, by the time we were married for 2 years, we had a one year old and another bun in the oven.

Immigration in the airports aren't nice to him either. He fell once while leaving customs (tripped over his shoelace or something) and they interrogated him for 3 hours. He wasn't even allowed to call me and I was waiting outside thinking that he disappeared.

That stinks that you had that experience. I guess some of it is just the subjective nature of whoever you happen to get as a case manager. I wonder if they found the travel to be suspicious. Not cool.

[niccig]

That stinks that you had that experience. I guess some of it is just the subjective nature of whoever you happen to get as a case manager. I wonder if they found the travel to be suspicious. Not cool.

:yeahthat: I think some of it is luck of who you get. I'm sorry that happened to both of you.

[tropicalmom]

From the first post it's not clear if she gave him the paperwork he needed when she went for the vist. Two years after marriage is when the green card can have the "conditions" released. When they did the initial paperwork, she likely had to file an Affidavit of Support with the application where she (and/or other US citizens who filed AOS for him) are legally responsible for his cost for a number of years. She needs to let USCIS know about the situation asap and legal help is a good idea.

We're planning on moving back to the US and we need to get green card for DH and I've found www.visajourney.com to be a helpful site.