Anyone with experience with 12-hour shift work?

[TxCat]

I'd love to hear from some of you with experience working 12 hour-shifts, especially in medicine. My group might be piloting a 12-hour hospitalist schedule at one of our sites soon, and I need to decide if I want to be part of it (probably 12-14 shifts/month). Right now my schedule is 7-3, M-F, with on 24-hour Saturday shift a month.

Pros: 1) more flexibility - it's hard to fit in appointments, doctor and dentist visits, and weekday errands after 3pm always. A lot of things, like annual gyn, denist and vision checks get saved for vacation weeks instead. With approx 3 shifts a week, I should have more random weekdays off here and there. Also mght be nice in case I ever want to help out or attend school-related activities as DD gets older. 2) this would probably put me permanently at a certain hospital, which is by far my favorite one to work at, with better overall work conditions as well. 3) The nature of the work is such that even with overnight shifts I will probably be able to get at least 2-6 hours of sleep/downtime each shift, if I want. 4) it might free up a few days to have off during spring break, the week of Christmas, and the week of Thanksgiving each year, times which I currently can't take any vacation with my current job/schedule. Also would give me more days off throughout the summer (currently limited to 2 weeks vacation max. in the summer).

Cons: 1) 7-3 is a really nice schedule - I love having time in the afternoons to do stuff with DD, get dinner made, etc., and not be super rushed. The days where I would work 7a-7p, I'd barely see my kids. 2) I'm only away from home 1 night/month currently, again, very nice.

[kdeunc]

DH(CRNA) worked 2 12s and 2 8s for years. He hates the 12 hour days. He now works 4 10s which he likes much better. When he has worked 3 12s he is about dead by the end of the 3rd day. He does not generally get any downtime during his shift. It would definitely be nice to have some "extra" days to fit in kids stuff. His group does have their 7p to 7a staff work 3 12s in a row. All of the people who do this shift are moms. I think that they get some "sleep time" fairly regularly.

[hellokitty]

If you get downtime, then it should be ok. However, as an RN (haven't worked since becoming a sahm), working, "full time" at three 12's a wk sucks. I have worked 3a-3p, 7a-7p and 11a-11p. However, I rarely ever got any downtime, except for the 11a-11p, I worked in PACU, so in the evening it did tend to slow down a bit (still my favorite unit). Anyway, while in theory, it sounds awesome to only work 3 days a wk, I always found myself completely exhausted the day after. Be warned that three 12's in a row SUCKS. Worse yet, some jerk once scheduled me for six 12's in a row (I did not request it). Yeah, it was bad, but my dad had to get open heart surgery, so I was able to stay with him for 2 wks w/o having to take any time off, so it worked out. I find that after working a 12, it takes me half a day to recover and I feel like I wasted that half of the day just sleeping or resting at home. If/when I return to work, I will be looking for a job with 8 hr shifts. Not to mention, I feel like I would never see my kids if I worked 7a-7p and I have absolutely zero desire to do 7p-7a. By 3am, my body starts to malfunction and I can barely make it through the rest of the shift.

[cono0507]

I work twelves. They are long days but I love having days off during the week to volunteer at school, get errands done on weekdays when it isn't so busy, appointments, etc.

However, they are long days for the kids too since they are in aftercare until 6p when DH picks them up. When i work 7a-7p, I leave in the am before they wake up and they eat dinner without me those nights and I put them to bed when I get home between 730-8p.

I vary between 7a-7p and noon-mid with occasional 7p-7a shifts.

The shifts are long- I'm gone from the house 13-14 hrs on those days with travel time and wrapping things up.
I only work half time though, so I may have more tolerance for the long days since I work fewer of them.

[westwoodmom04]

I don't have personal experience, but I have a friend who was a primary care doctor before having kids and now works 2-3 12 hour shifts at a local hospital. She loves it and is very involved at the two schools her kids attend. As a lawyer, I am envious, it seems like a great set up for a mom who wants to work but still want a lot of time for kid stuff.

[lhafer]

If you get downtime, then it should be ok. However, as an RN (haven't worked since becoming a sahm), working, "full time" at three 12's a wk sucks. I have worked 3a-3p, 7a-7p and 11a-11p. However, I rarely ever got any downtime, except for the 11a-11p, I worked in PACU, so in the evening it did tend to slow down a bit (still my favorite unit). Anyway, while in theory, it sounds awesome to only work 3 days a wk, I always found myself completely exhausted the day after. Be warned that three 12's in a row SUCKS. Worse yet, some jerk once scheduled me for six 12's in a row (I did not request it). Yeah, it was bad, but my dad had to get open heart surgery, so I was able to stay with him for 2 wks w/o having to take any time off, so it worked out. I find that after working a 12, it takes me half a day to recover and I feel like I wasted that half of the day just sleeping or resting at home. If/when I return to work, I will be looking for a job with 8 hr shifts. Not to mention, I feel like I would never see my kids if I worked 7a-7p and I have absolutely zero desire to do 7p-7a. By 3am, my body starts to malfunction and I can barely make it through the rest of the shift.

:yeahthat: to all of this.

I was a NICU RN for 6 years. I worked 3 12hr shifts a week, and in the summer we had mandatory overtime and 4 12 hr shifts a week. I worked day shift (7a-7p). It was nice when I didn't have kids. I could work my schedule to where I never had to take a vacation day, and I was able to stack those (which I used during my maternity leave when DD1 was born).

Once I had a kid - it took a year of working 3 12hr shifts a week to be D.O.N.E. I left the house at 5:30am, and got home between 8:30-9pm. So 14 hours days on my work days on a GOOD day (everything went smoothly). I did not see my daughter AT ALL on the days I worked. Sounds okay because you have 4 other days, right? Well, I hate to say it, but she was in day care full time either way. So there were many times I would take her day care for a little while because in my days off I had to run errands, laundry, clean the house, pay bills, go to doctor appts, grocery shop, etc. You know - get everything ELSE done that you have to get done. Plus my DH always works long hours at a refinery.

So when she was about a year old, I switched to a desk job on a long term project where I worked basically 8-4ish. I could come in when I wanted, and left when my work was done. I got to see my daughter every day. I took her to day care, and I picked her up. I made dinner at night. I could tuck her in. The trade off was having to get all the errands, grocery shopping, etc done on the weekends, same as everyone else. And I had to use vacation days when I wanted time off. But I was a lot happier.

With being a nurse - I had to work every other weekend, and I had certain holidays that I had to work as well.

When I got pregnant with #2, I decided that the pay wasn't worth the day care money that would be spent for 2 in full time day care (~$2,000 a month). The time away wasn't worth it either. So I became a SAHM after #2 was born.

I would consider part time 12hr shifts (1-2 a week) - that would be totally doable.

[basil]

I've never done it but my DH does. He's actually a board-certified nephrologist and was in private practice for almost 3 years, but needed to leave his group because the senior parter is a sociopath. Due to a restrictive covenant, he's practicing as a hospitalist now for the time being.

There are definitely good and bad points. His schedule is a little different than yours. He works 15-16 shifts a month, 1-2 of those are nights. The day shifts are either 8a-7p or 7a-whenever you finish your patients. Which seems to be anywhere between 2p and 5p depending on census and admissions and such.

It seems to work out that he gets 2-3 week days off a week, but he works every other weekend.

He is spending more time with our DS which he is really enjoying. He's only 20 months so he is able to keep him home from daycare (we are lucky to have a super flexible daycare and we basically pay by the hour so this saves us money too). They go to the playground, children's museum, zoo, etc.

The downside is that he is spending less time with me, and we spend less time as a family. He schedules his days off to be on my busiest days at work, or days I have a late meeting, because we can't guarantee that he will be done at work in time to make the daycare pick up. So on his days off I am often gone all the time, and on my light days he's typically working. And I spend every other weekend alone with DS, when the zoo etc is super crowded and I don't particularly want to go by myself. That's been the biggest adjustment, I think.

If it were up to me, as a spouse, I'd much prefer the 7-3 hours (his old job was nothing like that). You don't say how old your DD is or how many nights/weekends you'd work, which may affect my decision.

[abh5e8]

op, sounds like a great option! but how many of the shifts would be nights?

[craftysierra]

My husbands IT office job is 12 hour shifts. In theory 3 or 4 days a week and 2-7 days between blocks of working and 7 days of nights in a 8 week rotation. The days he is working we do not see him much at all. Nights have been a hard adjustment for my family since those were not part of his job before, but were a known going into the job. Having larger non weekend chunks of time off are nice. We are still fairly new to the schedule it has not quite been a year since he changed.
Sierra

[teresah00]

I haven't worked since before kids but I preferred 12 hr shifts when i worked as an RN. I've worked 4 10s too which was better than 5 days a week. Working 12s is tiring ESP if its 2 or 3 days in a row. After working I would eat, watch tv then go to bed. I'm not sure which I would choose now that I have kids.
When I was in nursing school I worked a 12 hr and a 24 hr shift over the weekend. There was a lot of downtime, so I was able to do school work and sleep. It wasn't as exhausting. But not easy to do w a family.

If I were working full time and my kids were in school then m-f would be better. I think it also depend on how supportive and available DH's schedule is.

[TxCat]

op, sounds like a great option! but how many of the shifts would be nights?

I'm not sure yet. It would probably be 4-6, I would guess. But that's based on my assumption that it would be evenly split, or close to even, among the 12 total shifts.

Thanks everyone for all the good points. Right now, about 85% of my time is at a sort of general all-purpose hospital (lhafer - it's SLEH), and 15% is at the new maternity/women's hospital we serve. The new 12-hour schedule would be for the maternity hospital, which is where I truly love to work, even when it's busy. If it was 12-hour shifts for the all-purpose hospital, I'd never do it because I'm exhausted and worn out after 8 hour shifts there - 12 would be miserable. But, since its the maternity hospital that I love, with people I love, and the work ebbs and flows more, I'm intrigued by the option.

As for child care, I think my nanny could be somewhat flexible with her hours to match my daytime hours. DH works from home 2 days/week, and gets home between 4-5 on the days he works on campus. We also have my in-laws to help with afternoon pick-ups once DD starts school.

The biggest thing I worry about is will the lack of flexibility in my current job get to me as kids get older, ie, if there is some school event before 3pm, there is no way I'll ever be able to get to it, unless I use vacation time. Or will it be worse being unavailable to my family for 12 hour stretches at least 3 times/week. That's what I'm having trouble trying to foresee. And if I walk away from the 7-3 schedule now, I might not be able to go back to it later.

[lhafer]

I'm not sure yet. It would probably be 4-6, I would guess. But that's based on my assumption that it would be evenly split, or close to even, among the 12 total shifts.

Thanks everyone for all the good points. Right now, about 85% of my time is at a sort of general all-purpose hospital (lhafer - it's SLEH), and 15% is at the new maternity/women's hospital we serve. The new 12-hour schedule would be for the maternity hospital, which is where I truly love to work, even when it's busy. If it was 12-hour shifts for the all-purpose hospital, I'd never do it because I'm exhausted and worn out after 8 hour shifts there - 12 would be miserable. But, since its the maternity hospital that I love, with people I love, and the work ebbs and flows more, I'm intrigued by the option.

As for child care, I think my nanny could be somewhat flexible with her hours to match my daytime hours. DH works from home 2 days/week, and gets home between 4-5 on the days he works on campus. We also have my in-laws to help with afternoon pick-ups once DD starts school.

The biggest thing I worry about is will the lack of flexibility in my current job get to me as kids get older, ie, if there is some school event before 3pm, there is no way I'll ever be able to get to it, unless I use vacation time. Or will it be worse being unavailable to my family for 12 hour stretches at least 3 times/week. That's what I'm having trouble trying to foresee. And if I walk away from the 7-3 schedule now, I might not be able to go back to it later.

I can't remember, does SLEH let you set your own schedule? That would be a big part in the decision for me. When I worked at TCH, we made our own schedules (which days we wanted to work) and the managers tried to follow it as closely as they could (numbers and census allowing of course). That was helpful, because there were nurses who liked doing 3 in a row and done, and others who would spread it out more. It would be a lt harder to manage kids' school activities if someone else set out schedule.

[TxCat]

I can't remember, does SLEH let you set your own schedule? That would be a big part in the decision for me. When I worked at TCH, we made our own schedules (which days we wanted to work) and the managers tried to follow it as closely as they could (numbers and census allowing of course). That was helpful, because there were nurses who liked doing 3 in a row and done, and others who would spread it out more. It would be a lt harder to manage kids' school activities if someone else set out schedule.

It's my anesthesia group - neither hospital would have a say. I think there are enough reasonable people in the mix that I could trade around for things that I needed.

[pharmjenn]

In my hospital, where I work 7 x 10hr nights (then 7 off) in the pharmacy, the peds and Anes are in-house for 24hr shifts, while the ER docs work 12hrs. Our nights are definitely quiet, and they definitely get nice quiet time. If you have internet access during your down time, you can get a lot done (banking, research etc)
If you would be in the maternity hospital that you love, I think the trade-offs are worth it. I would love to work 12s, but commute almost an hour each way, so that would be way too much time away.

[niccig]

The biggest thing I worry about is will the lack of flexibility in my current job get to me as kids get older, ie, if there is some school event before 3pm, there is no way I'll ever be able to get to it, unless I use vacation time. Or will it be worse being unavailable to my family for 12 hour stretches at least 3 times/week. That's what I'm having trouble trying to foresee. And if I walk away from the 7-3 schedule now, I might not be able to go back to it later.

I don't work 12 hours shifts, but I'll try to answer this from what I've seen with DS in grade 2.

Some schools do have many events during school hours. DS's school has a few, but not all parents can make them. I can only make events on certain days. DS hasn't liked it, but well, that's how it is. He's not the only kid who doesn't have a parent at everything, and I get to a lot more than some parents can do. If you could swap shifts so you can make special events eg. her birthday at school if the class does something, it would help. DH and I tag-team what we can go to during school hours, he can only do things first-up in the morning, so if your DH could be at some things, it'll make it easier. You'll also need a teacher that's proactive about communicating events, not all are.

Afterschool hours are tricky once kids get involved in activities. For the last 2 years, DS's baseball practice has been on the one day I can not make it at all. So a babysitter picks him up from school aftercare and takes him to practice, then home for dinner. Last week and this week, the babysitter has had to cancel, but her sister has filled in. So, you need back-ups so kids get to things. DS could miss the occasional practice, but I can't get him before aftercare closes, so I need a babysitter. I've several sitters I trust with getting DS to events.

Practice times are not communicated early, so DS has had to miss the first week or two while I figure out my schedule and who can babysit, if I can't take him. It would be easier if DS just did things with classes, as there's usually enough options to choose what works for us. Team sports are different - you get the time you get. I've convinced DS to not do soccer next semester, but go for basketball instead as that league lets you give days you're available and puts you on teams that practice that day. He's been wanting to try basketball anyway, but I gave it a nudge as soccer practice has been difficult to navigate as well.

We try to do playdates after school, but it can be difficult to coordinate schedules. DS is in aftercare 2-3 days a week, so I consider that his play with friends time (it's just not all his close friends). They are longer days for him, but as he gets older, they're not as difficult as when he was in K. Some school aftercares have activities for kids to do while they are there and that helps.

On the days you work, you'd have to rely on others to get DC to events or to see something at their school, but if you can swap shifts around, you may find you can make it some of the time. You'll also have your days off to be there at school/after school activities (if you're not too tired). In your current job, you'd be able to get them to activities after school, but need to take vacation time for in school events. The 12 hour shifts sound more flexible, but only if your DH, family, sitters, can help out when you can't be there and if you can deal with the shifts physically.

[StantonHyde]

flexibility is key IMO. DH is supposed to work 8 hour shifts but with charting, it is always at least 10 and can easily be 12s. (ER MD) It is nice that he has days off during the week to help out. But--when he is at work, there is NOTHING he can do to get out early etc. He does work out trades, but if we are talking about being able to stay home with a sick kid or do something last minute, it is a no go. So I would take the job that has the most flexibility.

The long shifts aren't that much of a problem. My kids know that they won't see him for a couple of days each week. They don't like it, but they are ok. So I think that would be all right. I think it is really nice to work 3 12s and have the rest of the week off (be they weekend or week day shifts). And the nights are what they are as you well know--busy as heck one minute, dead the next. A night shift 12 in your situation would be ok--you could nap if you had downtime. So I would take the 12s just for convenience.

That is my conflicting answer :D

[westwoodmom04]

Honestly, when I worked both full time and part time after kids, I left home exactly at 7 and arrived home only slightly before seven. With good in-home childcare, the hours away were only a huge issue when I was doing it five times a week. If you are only doing two times a week, very doable IMO. Once your kids are in elementary school, they'll be at school almost all of those hours anyway.

[Philly Mom]

I think three 12 hour shifts sounds better. Many working parents have 12 hour days. They will be long days but will give you the ability to be at things during the week. To me flexibility is key.

[elephantmeg]

I work 12's and really don't like them. I'm a nursing coordinator at a community hospital. I like having days "off" but there is no good schedule for 12's that works with the kids. When I work nights I leave right after supper (and supper has to be at 5:45) so don't see DD much (her daycare is near DH's work so he picks her up on his way home and they get home at 5:40) and the afternoons when I wake up are rushed with homework and supper. Day shift is worse-I leave at 6:30 am and get home in time to wind the kids up before bedtime (generally right at 8 pm or later).

And your hospital must be better staffed with hospitalists than our if you can get some down time at night. We run with 2 hospitalists at night for a 150ish in pts with 15-20ish admissions/transfers in from smaller hospitals through the night... they are way overworked IMHO! They are usually so backed up with admissions that the floor nurses feel that they are ignoring the inpatients.

[kdeunc]

Another thing to keep in mind is that 12 hour shifts are often different from 12 hr days. My DH technically has 10 hr shifts but his day (with 15 minutes drive time each way) is almost a 12 hour day (sometimes longer), after setting up rooms, giving report, late relief, etc.

[essnce629]

I never worked as an RN, but did go to nursing school and still keep in touch with a lot of my working nursing friends. After having kids I find that they are often complaining about working 12 hour shifts and how they are not as flexible as most people think. To me, 12 hour shifts would be incredibly hard with kids even though it's only 3 days a week. It's one of the reasons I never wanted to go back and finish nursing school after having DS1. I remember in nursing school, when DS1 was just a newborn, I'd have to drop him off at the daycare the minute they opened (6am) in order to be at the hospital at 7am. And then he was always the very last child to get picked up from daycare at 6pm. And no 12 hour shift is just 12 hours since you have to add in all the drive time and the time you go over wrapping up things. I guess if you have a DH with a flexible schedule, that would work much better, but I didn't have that since DBF is a lawyer and works 12+ hour days pretty much every day. I also don't have family around to help which would make it even more difficult. So yeah, I chose to be a SAHM instead.

To me, working 7am to 3pm every day is MUCH more appealing. Now that my kids are older (almost 4 and 9 1/2) they have soooo many scheduled activities in the afternoons. Monday is swimming, Wednesday is soccer, Thursday is fencing, Friday is swimming, and Saturday is Tae Kwon Do and soccer games. All those activities are during the hours of 3:30pm to 6pm. I would much rather work till 3pm every day and then be the one to drive them around and attend their activities than to have a babysitter do it. DS1 is old enough now that it really bums him out that DBF can never attend any of these activities during the week. I also know that we would probably eat a lot less healthy if I was working late several evenings a week. Getting off at 3pm lets you get dinner together without rushing around like a chicken with their head cut off! And since I have school-age kids-- all of their doctor and dentist appointments are scheduled after 3pm now anyways, after they get out of school. And even though I'm a SAHM I often take them grocery shopping with me after school. So the running errands and scheduling of appointments after 3pm is not that big of a deal to me.

So my vote is to stick with the 7-3pm schedule, unless you have an extremely supportive DH with a flexible schedule, family around to help, and lots of childcare and back-up childcare options. I didn't have any of that so it wouldn't have worked for our family. Once DS2 goes to school full time, my plan is to work as a postpartum doula with a schedule closer to your current schedule-- probably 9am to 2pm so I am still around to do the after school pick-up, extracurricular activites, and dinner/night time routine. That's what I did when DS1 first started school (before I had DS2) and it worked out well.

[o_mom]

I would look at how the 12h schedule is set as well. Is it certain days each week or every two weeks?

I have a friend working a schedule that is pretty random and set 2 months in advance. She says even that is not easy because many school functions (concerts, plays, etc.) only give about a month notice. She has no idea if she will be available on a Tuesday or Saturday three months from now so she can't really plan anything. If she wants a certain day off, she has to request it 2 months ahead or hope someone will switch. A 7-3 is at least predictable.

[hellokitty]

Another thing to keep in mind is that 12 hour shifts are often different from 12 hr days. My DH technically has 10 hr shifts but his day (with 15 minutes drive time each way) is almost a 12 hour day (sometimes longer), after setting up rooms, giving report, late relief, etc.

:yeahthat: All of this. I have gotten stuck at work 1-2 hours later than my 12 hr shift, when I am stuck in a situation where a pt was going down the tubes and I basically had to catch up on all of my charting and giving report to the next person by catching up past my shift. It's not like 7-7 means, you leave at 7 and get home at 7, in a hospital environment. It's more like 13-14 hrs, IF you get out right on time and have a short commute both ways, worse on the bad days, it can be really bad. My favorite shifts are 4 hr shifts. :tongue5: If/when I return to work, I would happily fill 4 hr holes prn, it's actually an enjoyable time. frame. 12 hrs are just killer to me and another reason why I loathe returning to nursing, esp with a spouse who has erratic hours. I feel like you need a spouse who has some sort of regular or, "normal" hours if one person works 12's, if you have kids.

[TxCat]

I work 12's and really don't like them. I'm a nursing coordinator at a community hospital. I like having days "off" but there is no good schedule for 12's that works with the kids. When I work nights I leave right after supper (and supper has to be at 5:45) so don't see DD much (her daycare is near DH's work so he picks her up on his way home and they get home at 5:40) and the afternoons when I wake up are rushed with homework and supper. Day shift is worse-I leave at 6:30 am and get home in time to wind the kids up before bedtime (generally right at 8 pm or later).

And your hospital must be better staffed with hospitalists than our if you can get some down time at night. We run with 2 hospitalists at night for a 150ish in pts with 15-20ish admissions/transfers in from smaller hospitals through the night... they are way overworked IMHO! They are usually so backed up with admissions that the floor nurses feel that they are ignoring the inpatients.

Well, I'm an anesthesiologist so I don't have to ever admit patients. :D Seriously though, it's a great set-up - our staffing model (and this is for an all OB/gyn hospital) is one anesthesiologist and 2 CRNAs in-house at all hours. We also have an anesthesiologist on home pager call if we need to run more than 2 ORs simultaneously or Labor & Delivery is going crazy. Even on a 24-hour shift, I can usually get a minimum of 2-3 hours of sleep total. It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing.



Another thing to keep in mind is that 12 hour shifts are often different from 12 hr days. My DH technically has 10 hr shifts but his day (with 15 minutes drive time each way) is almost a 12 hour day (sometimes longer), after setting up rooms, giving report, late relief, etc.

Right now I work 8s between 3 different hospitals, and one 24 per month at our maternity hospital. The only times I've stayed late in the last year I've had advance notice or I've volunteered to be a good team player, and I can count those times on 2 hands. Our anesthesia group is pretty efficient with staffing, so hand-offs usually don't take long, for the MDs or the CRNAs, so it's definitely a nice situation to be in. My commute is about 8-10 minutes each way, so probably an extra 30 minute commute for me to factor in.

Most of the comments on this thread echo what I'm hearing IRL. My OB colleagues who've become hospitalists prefer the schedule because, for them, it's a much better schedule. But my nursing colleagues generally prefer 8s over 12s.

I appreciate all of the points about what schedules are like with older DC, as that is definitely hard for me to anticipate. Right now I'm depending on MIL for pick-ups when DD starts schooling the fall, and to attend any school functions or parties during the day, with our nanny as back-up for pick-ups.

I think I'm leaning back towards the predictability of the 7-3...