Long shot: anyone has been in Copenhagen?

[Avispa]

I'm considering taking a job in Copenhagen and we would be moving (DH, DD1, DD2, and myself) for a few years there. I'm looking for any information regarding cost of life, rent, daycare, preschool (DD1 is 4 and DD2 is 2), health care, and that sort of things.

So, anyone has been there for more than a few days? :D

Thank you!

[mom2binsd]

I lived there for a year (I was an exchange student), but I still keep in touch with my of my friends and "family". I have been back once and can't wait to visit again.

It is AWESOME!!!!

It is very family friendly and your children would learn to speak Danish very quickly. Preschool/daycare is amazing, and very affordable. Schools are excellent. The Danes have one of the best "quality of life". Like many Scandanavian countries it is expensive, but salaries tend to be higher.

Unless things have changed, they have universal healthcare for everyone. As an exchange student I even got amazing benefits (broke my leg on a ski trip and the school set up taxi service to take me to and from school as I normally rode my bike). Other exchange students had braces put on while they were there as it was covered.

Taxes are very high, and cars/gas is expensive. People use public transportation much more and it runs very well.

If you were to live in Copehagen proper there are many wonderful neighborhoods, most accessible by the S train and connects to an expansive bus system.

I loved living in Lyngby, and Hillerod is lovely. But there are so many great places to live.

It's proximity to so much of Europe and Scandanavia make it easy to go on quick trips just about anywhere.

I would jump at the chance with a young family to experience life there.

Almost everyone there speaks English, the Danes learn German in school as well and they tend to speak many languages.

Learning Danish is a challenge, I became fluent because I lived with a Danish family and basically forced myself not to speak English unless really necessary. Children pick up languages much quicker. If you speak German it's a little similar.

The Danes love to socialize, eat and drink and host others in their homes. They even have a word that isn't easily translated...hyggelige...sort of means cozy but you use it to describe an evening with friends.....

Denmark tends to have pretty liberal attitudes and they are very tolerant. I did find that lots of Danes smoked, but that is true of much of Europe. When I was in high school there (age 16-17) we were allowed to buy drinks at our school dance, and most families were accepting of teens sleeping together, however, the issues of drunk driving/binge drinking and pregnant teens isn't an issue there like it is in the US.....hmmmmm

Danes are much more relaxed, Sweden though very close in proximity is much more 'buttoned up'....and their strict drinking laws lead many a Swede to hop the ferry on Friday afternoon to drink and be merry in Copenhagen...but everyone has a good time.

There are so many outdoor activities, folks ride their bikes everywhere!!! The climate isn't the greatest, but they don't have extreme weather, just not terribly hot summers, but not usually lots of snow.

Danes are incredibly proud and wave their flags! They celebrate holidays by adorning cakes etc with little Danish flags....as such a small country they really do feel a connection to one another.

Good luck with your decision.

PM if you'd like some info from some of my friends who live there.

[Avispa]

Wow, thank you so much for all the info!!! That is so useful! I'd be working in connection with the University, not sure where it is located. My mom is German and I know some, and I'd like my kids to pick up some German and Danish while we are there.

I'll PM you with more specific questions. Thanks again, your reply is super helpful!

[Snow mom]

I'm pretty sure it would be less expensive if you dropped off your DD1 with me :tongue5: Or maybe you'd like to take my DD to learn some German? :rotflmao:

[ged]

Congrats on your job offer! I think it's a wonderful opportunity, though I have never lived in, let alone visited, Copenhagen. That being said, I live in Munich and don't speak German and am doing relatively well. You will be even better off in Copenhagen re: language issues. And yes, I hear it is a fabulously child friendly place. With a great standard of living. Weather may be your biggest "problem", and the fact that it is so expensive in Europe, let alone Scandinavia. Congrats again.

[ChristinaLucia]

Wow. It is my dream to live in Copenhagen. I think it is the best place in the world and AWESOME for your kiddos! Take it!!!!

[Avispa]

Thank you PPs! I am excited about the job and moving to Copenhagen is very appealing. I need to figure out if we'll be able to afford living there on my salary. I think DH technically could work there (no need for special work visa, etc), but it might be hard for him to find something since he doesn't speak any Danish.

And Snom mom, you know you can send your DD to visit any time and as long as you/she want! My DD1 would be thrilled :) I might consider leaving DD1 with you if I can take your DS with me :)

[cilantromapuche]

It is a great city.
My best friend took a job there (but came back after a year) and housing was very expensive and very hard to find. It surprised her because she is Swedish (but living in the US) and thought it would be comprable to Sweden. I don't know if that helps.

[Avispa]

It is a great city.
My best friend took a job there (but came back after a year) and housing was very expensive and very hard to find.

That is what I heard from someone else, that housing price and availability might be a problem. My salary would be quite a bit more than what I make currently, but I have to figure out if the pay raise will be enough to cover the higher COL over there. As a researcher coming from the outside I get a pretty decent tax break (I'd pay 26% instead of the 58%!!! the general population pays there), but it would still be pretty tight I think. And then there's the headache of an oversea move for only a few yrs, but that will probably end up being the topic of future thread...

Thanks for the feedback so far, this is all very helpful!

[american_mama]

I don't know if my experience is relevant enough for you, but I studied abroad in Stockholm Sweden, I visited Copenhagen for a whopping day, and I am currently living in germany for 6 months while DH is on academic sabbtical

Scandinavia is generally very child-friendly, with very high English ability. Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are similar and I did not find Swedish hard to learn at a basic level. The grammar is simpler than German by a lot.

The one thing I will say is that Copenhagen is a bit far away from places outside Scandinavia. It's 5 hours to Hamburg, 7 hours to Berlin by train, and those are both still northern Germany. Paris, Amsterdam, London, Prague, southern France, Italy, the Alps will all be considerably more. That means trips are more expensive and take more time. Also, you'll be working, so won't have unlimited time, and your kids iwll have to adhere to school schedules. In Germany, they are unforgiving about missing school and the school vacation times are not as generous as I expected.

I am a little unclear of the status of cheap European airlines and whether they would be a good way for a family to travel. In Germany, children under age 14 travel for free on trains, plus we have discount cards, so it's hard to beat 2 discounted train tickets versus 5 airplane seats.

I think it would be very surprising if your DH found employment. I don't think his English ability is going to help him much, as so many Danes speak great English, and his lack of Danish will hinder him a lot. You will probably also find that daily life takes a lot of effort, helping your kids adjust, and that someone has to have the time to do it. As an example, here in Germany, I spent over 4 hours picking up a package at the postal customs office in another town... translating the notification letter, calling to verify, getting directions, figuring out public transport, getting a little lost, walking at preschool DS pace (in the rain), waiting for unclear reasons at the office, etc. It would ahve taken me 45 minutes in the US, but took hours here.

We made the move just for 6 months, so I definitely think the upheaval would be worth it for a few years. My 8 and 11 year old would probably feel the same, but might feel like a longer time separated them too much from their American friends. I do think my 11 year old will have a gap in her friendships when she returns, so we'll have to see if that is easy to overcome or not. I think my 8 year, who misses her friends in the US more, will fit back in with them quicker when we return.

I remember from our time abroad before that completing a full year in a foreign country finally let us see a complete cycle of seasons, holidays, car and apartment maintenance, etc. It got easier after that. Doing a second year would have really built on that first year and been even better.

[Nooknookmom]

Our neighbors did it with kids almost your kids ages. They were sent thru their church - I dont know their employment situation while they were there but she is a psychologist and her hubby gave up a great IT job to go over.

They lived there several years and rented out their home down from us...when they returned it was VERY difficult for them both to re-enter the local workforce, keep in mind the recession was just hitting too though. It took about 3-4 yrs for her to re obtain a clinical position and he is still home with the kids.

They LOVED living there, walking and biking (she still rides her bike around with the little baskets on the side-too cool) were their modes of transportation. Their kids started elementary school there and did well. That said when they returned - they had a very difficult time transitioning into American public schools. The language was difficult, the way we teach here was VERY different and the kids here are different so it made it hard for them to fit in and make friends. Their youngest was held back a year-they are settling in well now though.

So it can be super exciting (I'd go if I had the chance!) but know that there will be funky transitions.

[Avispa]

Thank you american_mama and Nooknookmom, I really appreciate the reality checks. I will not be moving over there if we can't financially make it with only my salary; if my DH eventually finds work, then it would be a bonus, at least that how we see it. I am pretty confident that my stay over there would not make it harder for me to find a job here (or elsewhere) when this fixed-term position will be over. It is already crazy hard to find a job in my field around here at the moment, I think if anything it might open up other opportunities that I wouldn't be able to consider from here.

The language is going to be a big challenge but we are up for it. Both DH and I are native french speakers (from Canada), and we've adapted to english speaking fairly well over the past several years. I feel that my kids are at the perfect age to pick up another language and learn about another culture. When my contract ends they'll be about 7 and 9 yo. It will be a challenge to move somewhere else from there, but not as big as if they were older. At the moment my biggest worry is if we can manage financially, and hence the questions related to daycare/preschool costs, general COL, etc.

Thank you everyone for your input, it helps a lot to see more clearly at what might be ahead of us!

[ZivaZ]

Last fall, we moved from the states to Oslo, Norway, one of the most expensive cities in the world. My husband was taking a new job within his company. I quit my job, and because of the bad real estate market in our home town, we decided to rent out our property. Prices here were a shock even though we'd visited here before. And yet- with some effort, we are doing fine and are adjusting to life here. A few things that have really helped:

1) Facebook. I didn't use it much before, but it has been a lifeline here. There are several expat communities in Oslo who use FB to organize events, ask questions, share info. It has been wonderful and I encourage you to look for Copenhagen expat FB groups now, and ask them your questions about cost of living.

2) Relo assistance. My husband's company contracted with a local organization to help us with paperwork and much more. They really smoothed the path for us. Not just ordinary bureaucracy (although that was big) but also it was good to have their help when we ran into problems with our landlord 2 months after moving in. Most expats haven't had access to such ongoing help and I'd say, ask about it before you finalize the offer. Our is through the local chamber of commerce. PM me if you want more details.

3) Being a mom. So much easier to fall into conversation and friendship with fellow parents than, well, fellow anything elses.

There are tough days. I have had to call acquaintances and say, would you please call this number and then call me back to tell me what the message said, because I didn't speak Norwegian and just staying on the line did not help me reach an actual person. It took months to get our daughter into daycare. But the acquaintance was happy to help, daycare is a quarter of the price we were paying in the states and our daughter loves it, and generally we find that most stressors can be chalked up to experience. Even the issue with our landlord worked out, and led us to find a tenants' union with helpful info for when we eventually move out.

And on a side note, it is really lovely to be using my French on a regular basis after several years of letting it lapse. :)

Overall, it's been a good experience so far. Good luck with your decision!

[Globetrotter]

Norwegian Air has dirt cheap flights from CPH!

[mom2binsd]

Copenhagen is probably one of the easiest cities when it comes to finding English speakers. The University has a huge exchange program and thus very used to non native speakers. I think American momma is in a much smaller German city which would be much more challenging.. Danish is much harder to learn than Swedish, Swedish is sing song like and Danish is like speaking with potatoes in your mouth, but it does have Germanic roots. The Danish preschool and daycare system is very good and highly subsidized. I lived there in 1986, and went back and visited in 1991, and really noticed how much more English was spoken etc. It's funny someone mentioned how far it was from other places in Europe, I didn't find that at all, but I'm used to driving 2000miles each summer on my own with kids to visit my family in Ottawa.

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[mom2binsd]

Oh, if you already speak two languages its much easier to learn additional languages. I found my basic French skills helped in learning Danish and some German.

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[Avispa]

We are used to Canadian distances as well, so everything in Europe will seem pretty close I think, especially by train.

Thanks for pointing out the FB pages for expats ZivaZ, I wouldn't have thought of that (I'm not on FB). DH has a FB account, I'll put him on that.

I'm not so worried about the transition for DDs now, at 2 and 4 yo I think they'll do fine with yet another language and culture (will be their 3rd). But the contract is for 3-4 yrs, which means that oldest DD will be 7-8 when we move again, and that worries me a bit. We speak French at home and she'll be speaking Danish or German in school (I'd like her to learn German since I do and my mom is German), which means that coming back to English or going for something else again at 7-8 yo might be tough for her. I do believe that it is better at that age than later on when they are teens though!

[ZivaZ]

FB pages for expats
Oh and I forgot to say: look for parent groups too, in any language you speak. The non-English groups may be more intimate. Parent groups will be better able to tell you about COL and tradeoffs for family life in Copenhagen vs US. If you find an expat FB group but not a parent group, ask on the expat group if there is one. I find that there is fairly little overlapping discussion between the groups.

Good luck!