My mom and my brother, how would you deal with this?

[crl]

BACKGROUND

My mom is 77. She's got some health issues but is totally there mentally. She was a nurse so she is well versed in medical matters. Dad is also 77 and in similar condition. They manage just fine on their own, hiring help for things like lawn care and such. I live far away and my older brother lives closer at a six hour drive away.

About five years ago my brother decided that he just had to raise with my parents what their plan is for when they can't manage in the house anymore and to pretty much suggest that they should be looking to sell the house and? I'm not sure what, move into assisted living? Move into a condo near one of us? That went over like a lead balloon. I refused to get involved. I feel pretty strongly that as long as they are mentally competent, and especially as long as
BOTH of them are mentally competent, it's not up to me how they live. I get that my brother and I will likely have to deal with the fallout at some point, but I still don't think it's up to me where or how they live at this point.

MY PROBLEM
Now my brother has approached me saying that he is sure mom is having significant hearing problems and that I should be the one to bring hearing aids up to her.

I saw my mom at Christmas and I agree that she occasionally has some trouble hearing, mostly it seems to me to be hearing in noise. She was able to follow 90 percent or so of conversations, which I thought was pretty acceptable given the unfamiliar chaos of small children, etc.

She regularly goes to rug hooking events and tells me stories that people told her there or tells me about a new thing she learned or something that suggests to me that she can hear what's going on.

I have no trouble with her hearing me on the phone and I talk to her a couple of times a week for thirty minutes or so (my brother reports that she often talks over him or does other things that makes him think she can't hear him.).

I agreed to observe when we see her next month. Honestly I am expecting that I will continue to think that she has very minor trouble hearing and that my brother will continue to insist that she is significantly hearing impaired. He will be pissed at me if I refuse to raise this issue. But if I'm not observing a real issue, I don't see any way or reason to raise this. Mom will not be pleased if I raise this either way.

How do I get out of this without having one or both or them pissed at me?

Catherine

[JustMe]

Ugh, difficult situation. At least your brother's intentions are good.

I agree with your stance that while your parents are managing just fine, its their call. I also agree, based on what you write, that your mom's hearing is not that impaired. I would stick to your stance that you do not want to bring this up with your mom (especially if you are not that concerned). If your brother feels the need to bring it up himself, you cannot really control that but I think you can remain firm that you do not feel the need to do that.

[ellies mom]

Since you aren't as concerned with your mother's hearing, then I'd let your brother be mad and tell him to bring it up himself. His issue, he brings it up. Seems simple. If you had concerns then I could see getting involved. But until then, it is his thing, let him deal with it. I mean why have your mom mad at you over something you aren't overly worried about.

[ShanaMama]

Since you aren't as concerned with your mother's hearing, then I'd let your brother be mad and tell him to bring it up himself. His issue, he brings it up. Seems simple. If you had concerns then I could see getting involved. But until then, it is his thing, let him deal with it. I mean why have your mom mad at you over something you aren't overly worried about.

:yeahthat:

[trales]

Help your parents put this issue to rest, tell them of his concern and ask them to mention it to their pcp next time they are in and have the doc tell your brother it is fine.

[hillview]

well if you can bring it up to your mom in a non confrontational way that might be best. Something like
Mom, how is your hearing? I just heard about a great new hearing aid, do you want to go get your hearing checked?

If she says it is fine, you can tell DB that you raised it. :)

[crl]

Thanks.

So I feel like if I refuse to raise this, my brother will feel that I am ducking out and leaving him holding the bag.

I also feel like if I raise it with my mom as my brother's concern, I will be "telling" and both of them will be pissed at me.

I'm pretty irritated because I feel like my brother has trapped me in a no-win situation.

Ugh.

Catherine

[crl]

well if you can bring it up to your mom in a non confrontational way that might be best. Something like
Mom, how is your hearing? I just heard about a great new hearing aid, do you want to go get your hearing checked?

If she says it is fine, you can tell DB that you raised it. :)

That might work. My dh is actually deaf in one ear (relic of his Marine Corps service) and I thought maybe I could use that in some way to bring this up. . . . .

Catherine

[niccig]

;)
Thanks.

So I feel like if I refuse to raise this, my brother will feel that I am ducking out and leaving him holding the bag.

I also feel like if I raise it with my mom as my brother's concern, I will be "telling" and both of them will be pissed at me.



I would prefer pissed off brother over pissed off mother. If you don't have an issue with something, why raise it because your brother wants you to?

If he asks "did you talk to mom?" tell him you didn't see anything to concern you about her hearing. If he feels differently, then he can go for it and bring it up with your mother again.

I've been in similar situation and honestly, I'm too old and busy and tired to play games with my sisters/mother anymore. It also helps that I don't care if my sisters or mum are pissed at me. Probably because if it comes down to a family pissed off competition, I would win .

If I wasn't concerned, I say nothing. If I was concerned, then I would.

[roobee]

I never pay a ton of attention, but I think I've seen free hearing aid screenings at Sears or Costco - would she go to one of those? Could backfire though because they're probably looking to sell you something.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[StantonHyde]

You may also want to remind your brother that as long as your parents are competent, you cannot do anything to make them move or take over their finances etc. My grandmother REFUSED to move off her farm. She lived in the middle of nowhere till she was 96!!! Only in the last year was she really out of it. And for the last 6 mos, she agreed to live with my uncle. The would bring her groceries every other week or so and would drive her to medical appointments. But that was it. We were all very clear with her that if she fell and broke her hip and ended up laying there for 3 days--it was her fault, not ours. (she refused to wear a medical alert button till she was 95 or so) So if people do not want to leave and are still with it, you can't make them!

[ahisma]

I'd pick your battles. This one isn't a biggie to me. Even if she does have some hearing loss and is in denial, I wouldn't stress it. If it was notable she wouldn't be able to hide it. Save the pushy approach for when there is a serious issue to tackle.

I guess that leaves your brother ticked off, but he may have to just be ticked off. I'd share your analysis and explain that you'd rather not push on this one because you know that in the future you may have to push them to do something that they aren't ready for. Let him know that you have his back, just not on this one.

[Momit]

My dad has no hearing in one ear and probably about 50% in the other ear - he's not elderly, just has really bad hearing. It's VERY obvious that he doesn't hear well - he especially has trouble hearing DS, hearing conversation in a noisy restaurant, hearing the TV unless it's crazy loud. If you spend a few days with your folks you should be able to notice a hearing loss if it's there.

Can you tell your brother you will observe and will be happy to mention it to her once you've seen it yourself? Seems like check ups at the doctors for people that age should include hearing checks, if she goes to the doc regularly/annually it may be caught at her next visit.

FWIW my Dad's hearing aid is so small you can barely see it and it isn't a big deal for him to wear it. Hearing aids don't have to be the big clunky things you see people wearing sometimes.

[scrooks]

If you bring it up you may have to be prepared that she won't want to do anything about it. FIL worked for 40 years on the railroad and has a definite hearing problem but he refuses to admit it. I don't know how MIL puts up with it. She is constantly repeating herself and their tv volume is set high enough to blow you out of the room but he is a bit vain and won't admit the problem or get a hearing aid. I just feel bad because he has a hard time hearing the little voices of his grandchildren. :(

[wellyes]

I can't stand that whole 'this is a concern of mine, so it is your reponsibilty to deal with it' line of argument. Take care of your mom, of course, and be honest and forthright with your brother. But don't obey a bossy sibling just to avoid annoying him. Especially because you don't agree with his whole approach anyway.

[crl]

Thanks everyone. I agree that pissed off brother is better than pissed off mother. Especially because part of her method of dealing with people who harass her about medical stuff is to stop telling them anything. I usually know more from mom than my brother does because of this.

I really think I would notice a big hearing problem since dh is deaf in one ear and I totally see the things he does to compensate (he has looked into a hearing aid and it would not help with his issue). I will definitely keep my promise to observe.

I appreciate the advice. Maybe I will just have to suck it up and tell him (assuming it is true after observing in person) that I don't see it. I know he won't believe me because when I told him the stuff I put in my first post about rug hooking events and no trouble on the phone with me, he made it pretty clear he thought I was just being unobservant and that he was sure I would notice the problem in person. So his mind is made up. Sigh.

Catherine

[crl]

I can't stand that whole 'this is a concern of mine, so it is your reponsibilty to deal with it' line of argument. Take care of your mom, of course, and be honest and forthright with your brother. But don't obey a bossy sibling just to avoid annoying him. Especially because you don't agree with his whole approach anyway.

Bossy sibling is a good way to put it. It is not his usual MO with me and I frankly wonder if this is actually coming from my SIL. Last go-around dh really thought SIL was behind it. (Dh thinks it was really counter-productive and that I should just refuse to raise the hearing issue with mom regardless of whether I think she is having trouble for that reason.)

Catherine

[niccig]

Thanks everyone. I agree that pissed off brother is better than pissed off mother. Especially because part of her method of dealing with people who harass her about medical stuff is to stop telling them anything. I usually know more from mom than my brother does because of this.


Even more reason to not intervene if there is no concern.

My younger sister does the same thing, she shuts out my mom and older sister because they criticize or tell her what to do. She's 38, so doesn't need to be told what to do! I've deliberately gone the other way so at least there's one line of communication open.

Sorry you have a bossy sibling who wants you to do the dirty work.

[Globetrotter]

We finally convinced my dad to get a hearing aid, after years of denial!! It was not an easy task!

Does your brother see her more often? Could you ask him to point it out next time you are together? In my dad's case we realized he was lip-reading to try to cover it up! If you observe further and still don't think it's needed now, I would ask your brother to deal with it, but if you are SURE she doesn't need it I would try to convince him to keep quiet and save it for when she actually does. Otherwise, she may keep quiet or may refer back to this time when your brother was wrong. Maybe she's not like that, but my parents (yes, my mom also) looked for every single reason to avoid getting the hearing aid, and I find they get very stubborn with age.

If you do talk to her, I would make it clear that she doesn't need it YET and to keep a lookout for further loss. Keep in mind I am greatly influenced by our experience.

[crl]

My brother does see her a bit more often. Probably four or five times a year to my twice a year. She can't be lip reading on the phone with me. I do wonder, and did raise with my brother, whether she could have hearing loss only in a range that corresponds to his voice range. That's how dh's hearing loss is, much more severe at the pitch that many young women have--waitresses/restaurants are killer for him. My brother pretty much dismissed this idea outright and insisted that she has severe hearing loss across the whole range. Again, sigh.

I really appreciate the advice and commiseration.

Catherine

[dogmom]

To me the devils advocate here as a health professional I deal all the time with the out of town siblings vs the in town siblings and elderly parents. I have yet to run across a case where the siblings close by don't have a better handle on the situation unless the nearby sibling is crazy. (That's another post.) There are a lot of subtle signs that come before real problems that are easily covered up or missed if you don't see people every day. I would also agree with you brother that your parents need a plan. Too often people have a vague plan, "we will sell the house and move when the time comes." But there are no parameters for when that time is. It is better to move earlier than later. Again and again I see people whose parents get more stubborn as they get closer to "that time" and then it's too late. There's a fall. There's a heart attack. There's a stroke. There's a pneumonia. Now is the time to be pushy, because they won't listen later.

I also don't think hearing loss is a minor issue. Being hard of hearing is a huge deficit in a hospital and leads to disorientation, increased falls, not understanding teaching about the condition or medication. Once again, now is the time to say, hey, why don't you get your hearing tested. I have no patience for people who live in denial about hearing loss. I got yelled at for years that I "mumbled" by my father which was really my voice timber was hard for him to hear with the years he spent in a boiler room of a navy ship. Once it gets "really bad" there is only so much loss one can recover from hearing aids.

No, I don't think you are the one that needs to bring this up. But clearly your brother and you have vastly different assessments of your parent's situation. And in all fairness it sounds like he will wind up dealing with it more than you. So you might want to spend some time really considering his viewpoint and asking him questions before writing him off.

[crl]

Well, I did ask him a ton of questions on the hearing thing. He blew off all of them and kept just insisting that he is right. Now maybe he is. But his observations aren't matching up with mine and he acted like my questions were just proof that I was wrong.

As far as a plan, I agree that it is better to have one. But I can't make them do anything they don't want to. And when they are mentally competent, we can't make the plan for them. Both of my parents were responsible for their parents at the end of their lives. And my mom used to work for the state division of aging and inspect nuring homes. So they know how this stuff plays out. It's not like they need to be educated on the issues. And I think the flip side is that they have friends and social activities where they live. Moving prematurely would have big downsides for them and I think would affect their health negatively. I have seen that play out with elderly people detoriating rapidly when they leave their home.

As far as who gets stuck with the fall out, it is true my brother is closer geographically. And he probably assumes it will be him. But I really doubt it given the various relationships. He may get stuck with the first day or two until I could get there, especially because my kids are younger. But it is far more likely that over the long haul, I will be the one handling legal issues and having one or both of them move near me at some point.

I do think it is a tough spot for him, but I don't think trying to ramrod me into being the the "bad" guy when I am not seeing the issue is a good solution.

Catherine

[dogmom]

Moving prematurely would have big downsides for them and I think would affect their health negatively. I have seen that play out with elderly people detoriating rapidly when they leave their home.


Catherine

I think that can be true but the timing of the move really matters. What I see often is people moving when things are getting to be a real problem and then moving from their familiar environment is a real negative. Especially when the move is precipitated by one spouses mental decline. The best case situation is when someone decides proactively to move when they still have the where with all to establish new routines, get out and meet new people, etc. Basically set up a new life that can be sustained for longer independently. Luckily my MIL moved from a house she was living in rent free to an apartment a few years ago and I'm sure many people would say it was premature. But she has managed to basically just do a move as opposed to feel like she had to move. Makes a huge difference in her attitude. Now she doesn't have to worry about things like snow removal, being alone with no neighbors, etc, that would start to be a problem with her now or soon. Does she love it? Not always, but she sees that she can stay in this situation until she is completely unable to care for herself as opposed to not being able to care take a house.

I've found great success using the grandkids as an excuse to push planning. Basically pointing out to both parents that I hope they live to be 99, but I have two young kids and if there is anything that crops up it would be very helpful to my family's functioning if I had some idea of what they wanted and knew where the paperwork was. My parents are always, "We don't want to be a burden." And I'm always, "Then make a plan and let me know what it is."

[bigpassport]

If she does have a hearing problem, you WILL have an opportunity to notice and comment either on the phone or when you visit. If you keep waiting and waiting and it never comes up, that in and of itself says she's not having a significant problem. I would wait until the issue comes up naturally, e.g. she doesn't hear you on the phone, she can't hear the tv unless it's loud, etc. When the situation comes up, point it out to her and tell her you've noticed this and present the issue. I think it's much less confrontational if you wait for the door to be opened naturally vs. bringing it up out of the blue. FWIW my mom is 79 y.o., probably has some trouble hearing (tv is loud, she talks loud, etc), but it doesn't interfere with her life at all.

[BunnyBee]

Can you and brother be there at the same time? Don't ambush them, but tell them that while they are both still competent, you want to come up with a family plan.

Hearing issue--do you regularly chat with your mom about her health? "Hey, Mom, when's the last time you guys went to the eye doctor or got your hearing checked? I'm across the country but worry about you and Dad." If that doesn't go anywhere, I'd be honest with him. "Brother, I feel like I'm in an impossible position here. I haven't noticed an issue and unless I'm going to lie to Mother, I have no reason to push this issue with her. I don't want you to feel this is all on you. What would you suggest?"

I'm an only and dread dealing with aging parent issues.

[Still-in-Shock]

well if you can bring it up to your mom in a non confrontational way that might be best. Something like
Mom, how is your hearing? I just heard about a great new hearing aid, do you want to go get your hearing checked?

If she says it is fine, you can tell DB that you raised it. :)

I was thinking about something along these lines, but more like, "DB is concerned about your hearing. When was the last time you had it checked? Let's go do that today and then go to lunch. I'll be able to tell him that I did something, and you'll be able to tell him that your ears are fine."

BTW, I totally get why your brother wants your folks to have a plan for down the road, although I don't totally agree with his approach. At some point, your folks won't be able to make decisions like this, and it sure would be nice to know what their preferences are for when they can no longer stay in the house.

[BDKmom]

Doesn't sound like your brother is going to take no for an answer, so, if you want to keep the peace, I think your best bet is to find an acceptable way to bring it up to your mother. I am an audiologist, so I will relate what has been my experience with patients, and maybe that will help you find an easy way to talk about it with her.

Hearing loss usually happens very gradually over time, but it seems that everyone has a point where it suddenly becomes very noticeable. So it is possible that, while it didn't seem to be a big deal at Christmas, it could be much more of an issue now. Also, almost all of my patients, with all different types of hearing loss, seem to do ok on the phone. Most phones have volume controls, and typically the patient is very focused on the conversation, so that situation doesn't seem to give them much trouble. With a milder hearing loss, most people can compensate and fill in the blanks in a lot of situations, so you might only notice the problem in a tougher listening environment, like background noise. But that doesn't mean that the hearing loss isn't an issue, because often the patient is having to work/concentrate extra hard to be able to catch what a normal hearing person hears quite easily. Also, often the hearing impaired person thinks they hear correctly, so they nod along, but they really are missing important pieces of information, and may totally misunderstand the point of your conversation. Basically, I am trying to say that those subtle changes can be hard to detect in someone you only see occasionally, but maybe you could be on the look out when you see her next.

You have said that you noticed some minor difficulties at Christmas, so I think you could very easily bring that up, not in a pushy, accusatory way, but sort of, "Hey, Mom, I have noticed you have some trouble hearing things when we are all together. Have you thought about having your hearing checked? I've heard it's good to get a baseline in case things start changing on you." Hearing impaired people are often the last to know that there is a problem. If they didn't hearing something, how are they going to know they didn't hearing it if no one points it out to them. Their friends may notice, but don't want to be rude or to embarrass them. And she may not listen to you at first, or may blow it off, but the more times you bring it up over the course of time, the more likely she will start to pay attention and notice and/or admit the problem.

Even if your mom doesn't need hearing aids (and an audiologist will quickly be able to tell you that), it is a good idea to have a baseline and see if she is truly starting to have some trouble. Sometimes, it's just a matter of processing changes in the brain that occur with age, so she's just not as good at filtering out background noise, etc., and so that's where the problem is coming from. The only way to find out is to have her hearing checked.

[crl]

Well, as far as a plan, I know what my parents insurance, benefits and general financial situation is. And I know where their papers, including their wills are and my brother and I both have access to those papers. I think what they will want to do will depend on the circumstances. I don't think leaving their house for a smaller place in the same location would do anything for them--they can afford to hire people to keep up the house. The problem won't come until one or both of them can't manage in an independent living situation any more. I am certainly not going to push for them to move into an assisted living facility now. Not when dad can still turkey and deer hunt and mom can still go on weekend hooking retreats and they can both still go on international vacations. Could they have a more definite plan? Sure. But I think they have the major pieces in place and that the details would shift depending on the circumstances anyway.

As for the hearing issue, I think my problem is that my brother is so insistent that I know it won't matter what I observe. So he's just decided that there is a problem and I should address it. I don't think that's a reasonable approach. But I also don't want to handle this in a way that makes it more difficult for us to work together in the long run.

I think I am also a bit frustrated because I think there are other issues that I would rather spend my energy on with my parents. I am way less worried about Mom's hearing and way more worried about what the plan is for Dad's guns. I don't want to spend my capital working on something I don't think is a problem when I know that there are some real problems looming.

I appreciate all the different perspectives on this. Ultimately I suck at being subtle with this kind of thing and I think mom will see right through me if I try to broach this subject indirectly. Assuming I continue to think the hearing thing is not a problem, I think I have two choices. One is to tell my brother I don't see the problem he does so I am not going to raise it with her. The other is to tell my mom that my brother is harassing me and could she go get her hearing checked (if she hasn't already) so he will shut up.

I will be giving this some more thought in the next month before we go to see them. (We will see both my parents and my brother and his family). I appreciate all the advice.

Thank you,
Catherine

[bisous]

Assuming I continue to think the hearing thing is not a problem, I think I have two choices. One is to tell my brother I don't see the problem he does so I am not going to raise it with her. The other is to tell my mom that my brother is harassing me and could she go get her hearing checked (if she hasn't already) so he will shut up.

Faced with those two options, I don't see a downside to telling your brother that you honestly don't see a problem. I would probably try to phrase it diplomatically. I'd acknowledge that going forward there probably WILL be legitimately difficult health issues or there are already some issues you are concerned about, that you respect that he is honestly concerned for your mother and you will continue to watch her for signs that her hearing is deteriorating, at which point you'll broach the subject with her. Let him know that you want to work with him, but on this issue, you simply don't see the problem. But that you look forward to working together in the future. I don't know the ins and outs of your family dynamic but in my family I'd be very comfortable saying that to my sibling.