so what is this (internet meme - religion) supposed to mean?

[♥ms.pacman♥]

was shared by someone in my fb feed. it's picture of a child smiling, overlaid with the words "If we don't teach our children to follow Christ, the world will teach them not to."

FWIW, DH & I are Catholic. While my kids are still young, we do try to teach DS and DD about Jesus (Christmas is about the birth of Christ, not just Santa, getting presents, etc). However, i tend to feel a bit offended when I see posts like these. Am I wrong? Is there another perspective I'm not seeing? I guess it rubs me the wrong way because it seems to assume that Christianity is the only way to instill morals in a child. Also, I somehow get the feeling that it is bashing families who are either atheists or happen to follow another religion... as if they are all big part of corrupted society that leads children astray. Am I off-base here? Would love perspectives on this. It's interesting to me..I never saw things like this until i moved to Texas.

I don't know, I just see religion as a rather personal matter, and i'm always perplexed by the various memes, comments that seems (to me) to imply that Christianity is the only right way, etc. Though among many of my friends here, this is totally normal and they see nothing wrong with it. Maybe i am seeing it wrong, i don't know.

[trcy]

I see things like that on my FB too. I tend to scroll right past. IMO religion is a personal and FB is not the forum but that is just my opinion and I know others feel different. So I don't get offended.

[BabyBearsMom]

I have seen those things on facebook. I also find them offensive. I don't need someone to tell me how to raise my children. I was raised Jewish but I am an Atheist and DH is Agnostic. We have no intention of teaching our children to follow Christ and I have no worries that my children will somehow fall onto a bad path for lack of religion. I usually unfriend people who post things like that.

[ABO Mama]

I find these type of posts offensive as well. The meaning I tend to get is something along the lines of my way is the only way, and if you don't believe the same, then there is something wrong with you.

[wellyes]

That's one of those ones where people who already feel that way just feel reinforced. It's not meant to persuade, it's preaching to the choir.

[megs4413]

huh....I mean, I can see thinking "dumb" if you're not Christian. I mean, it would make NO sense to teach your children to follow Christ if you weren't a Christ-follower. However, I don't think it's a statement on the corrupting influence of the world so much as a reminder to Christian parents. Like, "it's your job to teach your kid to follow Christ, no one is going to do it for you." I mean, that's how I take it, but that's just filtered through my perspective. It's kind of a good reminder for someone like me who is A) Christian B) a parent C) wanting my kids to become Christians. It seems completely and totally inapplicable if those 3 things aren't true for you (GY), though, and I would just ignore it. When my Jewish fb friends (I grew up in an area with a large Jewish population, so most of my friends from growing up are Jewish) post about their observances or advice I just skip it because it doesn't apply to me unless it's a high holy day and I'm wishing them a happy holiday or whatever. Meh...in the grand scheme of fb offensiveness this one doesn't bother me.

[mommylamb]

I think I have unfriended everyone who had been on my friend list who might post stuff like this (FTR, I have FB friends who are religious, but just would never even consider posting something like this). This is the sort of thing that would totally piss me off, and I'm glad to not have to deal with getting angry about it.

[dogmom]

Well, I would disagree with the meme because it's not true. Living in an overwhelming Christian nation and not being so, trust me, my kids learn about Christ. There's a lot more influence in our culture pushing them towards Christianity than any other religion. ONLY religious federal holiday people! I certainly don't think any children living in Texas are in any danger of not hearing about the risen Lord. People complaining about how hard it is to be a Christian really need to spend a week living at a Jew, Muslin, Atheist, Hindi, etc.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

wellyes - i think you are right.


I think I have unfriended everyone who had been on my friend list who might post stuff like this

well if i did that i would be basically unfriending 90% of people on my list who live in TX. I am so not exaggerating. And the people who post these things are not retired grandmothers who complain about having to be PC these days...they are the same age as me or younger. My mother and MIL are very religious yet neither would never post these types of things.

FWIW, i have various Jewish, Muslim atheist friends on FB (from grad school and when i lived in CA) and have never seen a single equivalent meme re: on FB. Yes, people post about holidays (like Happy Hanukah or whatever) or whatever, but nothing like "in life, you better do this (or else)."

About a month ago, soon after the Boston bombings, a friend who frequently posts Christian memes/quotes posted an e-Card that said "Religious Tolerance: If your religion requires you to kill me to get to heaven, I don't have to tolerate that." My jaw dropped. But this attitude seems to be the norm here. :(


People complaining about how hard it is to be a Christian really need to spend a week living at a Jew, Muslin, Atheist, Hindi, etc.

:yeahthat: x1000. :applause: Yes. I cannot imagine what it must be like being a Muslim in this state. Seriously. The ignorance i see here is mind-boggling. And it makes me very sad.

[icunurse]

My FB friends who post things like this tend to be uber religious and out to save any non-Christian souls. To me, this comes across as saying that if you don't teach your child about Christ, outside influences (ie. non-Christians) will teach them evil. Perhaps the person posting it or the originator of the meme meant otherwise, but that is how it comes across. As a non-Christian, it is very offensive to me. Rest assured, my values and morals are quite strong and intact and my open heart accepts and appreciates all people and beliefs, not just the ones like me. But I also don't feel the need to turn anyone toward my beliefs, much less post about them on FB.

[Ceepa]

Yeah, I also see it as someone putting a reminder out to other Christians that it is important to teach their children about their faith. It is heavy handed but show me a meme that isn't dopey. Like any other piece of mail that comes into my virtual inbox, if I don't agree I would trash it and move on.

[BunnyBee]

To me, it perpetuates the us vs them mentality, part of the fear-mongoring "War on Christmas" nonsense. I just roll my eyes and think the person is a zealot.

[AnnieW625]

We are Catholic and DD1 goes to Catholic school (and DD2 will as well). I remember those types of sayings being very big in the early to mid 90s in the Catholic church when there was a big surge of born again Catholics. It was soo strange because for the 10 or so years prior to that I actually thought I understood the teachings of the church and that it was okay to pray quietly and you didn't have to go expressing your faith at every opportunity, but some people really took a hold of that kind of expression and it just wasn't part of my comfort zone within my faith. I think that is the main reason I get such a kick out of the whole "Catholicism WOW!" campaign that takes place in the movie Dogma as lots of churches were going through that or had just gone through it within the last couple of years.

In general I tend not to pay much attention to those types of quotes or musings that show up on Facebook or other sites.

[megs4413]

it's really interesting to see the perspectives on this. I've never posted anything like this (I do post memes, but I only like funny ones. geeky HP references that make me laugh or stuff to do with sports) but know lots of people who do. I am almost sure that some of my friends wouldn't repost stuff like that if they knew how many people found it offensive. Too bad you can't poll the audience before you post something!

[gatorsmom]

huh....I mean, I can see thinking "dumb" if you're not Christian. I mean, it would make NO sense to teach your children to follow Christ if you weren't a Christ-follower. However, I don't think it's a statement on the corrupting influence of the world so much as a reminder to Christian parents. Like, "it's your job to teach your kid to follow Christ, no one is going to do it for you." I mean, that's how I take it, but that's just filtered through my perspective. It's kind of a good reminder for someone like me who is A) Christian B) a parent C) wanting my kids to become Christians.

:yeahthat: My first impression reading it is if I don't teach my kids about Christ, they will become increasingly secular. So, if I want them to grow up loving and respecting Christ, it's my job to teach them (well, mine and their Catholic school teachers). It could apply to any religion, actually. If you want your children to grow up loving Allah, you better teach them because no one is going to do it for you.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

I am almost sure that some of my friends wouldn't repost stuff like that if they knew how many people found it offensive.

The thing is, i totally agree with this. Most of the people posting these things are otherwise very nice, caring people. I'm sure they did not mean to make people feel badly. But this hits on EXACTLY what bothers me...they don't even realize that what they say could be offensive. This is a problem, IMO.The fact that it doesn't even occur to some people that there may be others who don't hold the same beliefs, who may get offended, is mind-boggling to me. But then again, I went to school/college in very diverse cities & campuses had teachers, classmates of various backgrounds (religious, ethnic, socioeconomic)...i was always extremely aware that not everyone has the same religious beliefs, there is more than one way to do things, not everyone has had the same upbringing,etc. i do not think most people who make these statements have had same experiences at all.

[niccig]

The thing is, i totally agree with this. Most of the people posting these things are otherwise very nice, caring people. I'm sure they did not mean to make people feel badly. But this hits on EXACTLY what bothers me...they don't even realize that what they say could be offensive. This is a problem, IMO.The fact that it doesn't even occur to some people that there may be others who don't hold the same beliefs, who may get offended, is mind-boggling to me. But then again, I went to school/college in very diverse cities & campuses had teachers, classmates of various backgrounds (religious, ethnic, socioeconomic)...i was always extremely aware that not everyone has the same religious beliefs, there is more than one way to do things, not everyone has had the same upbringing,etc. i do not think most people who make these statements have had same experiences at all.

This is function of where you live and life experiences.

Where you live, many people are Christian, so assume everyone has similar beliefs as in their experience they do.

Where I live, diverse religious beliefs, so don't assume everyone is similar as experience has shown they don't. I don't get FB posts like this.

It's similar to when I posted about a mum's get-together on a Sunday morning. Only 1 person in group of 10 goes to church, so she wasn't happy about the scheduling (she ended up coming and went to a different time for church service). I asked about it here and in some parts of the country, it's rude to schedule something on a Sunday morning. Here it's not rude and common as not everyone goes to church so Sunday mornings aren't off-limits..

[icunurse]

I guess my problem is in the exact wording. If it had said to teach your children about Christ because no one else will, I'm fine with that. It is the fact that it is saying that if you don't teach you child about Christ, other people will teach them to *not* love Christ. That is basically saying that everyone else is a threat to your child's love of Christ. Seems a bit extreme to me. But it is a meme, so gotta keep that in mind...

I find that in a country with a huge majority of Christians, if you don't declare yourself otherwise, you are almost considered to be "in the club". The other day, totally out of the blue, my neighbor started talking about how non-Christians and atheists in particular are bringing down this country. After letting her rant, I revealed myself as an agnostic/atheists. She asked if I wasn't raised Christian. I explained that I was, but that is not what I identify with. She was totally taken aback. I don't know if the will be repercussions from this (I don't think so), but I think that since I hadn't advertised my beliefs, she just though that I must be a follower. I'd like to believe that I might change her views a little about how scary we nonbelievers are, but I am not hopeful about that. I guess it is just easier to declare your beliefs when you are the majority.

[dogmom]

wellyes - i think you are right.
About a month ago, soon after the Boston bombings, a friend who frequently posts Christian memes/quotes posted an e-Card that said "Religious Tolerance: If your religion requires you to kill me to get to heaven, I don't have to tolerate that." My jaw dropped. But this attitude seems to be the norm here. :(


Once I went and changed my urine soaked pants for laughing so hard the history nerd in me would be all over the comment of religion and killing.

[bisous]

That particular meme doesn't offend me. I see it the same way as Megs and Gatorsmom. It is aimed at Christians and really doesn't apply to anyone else. So maybe not the most appropriate thing to post for the entire world to see but it isn't condemning or belittling anyone else. I don't see it as an "us and them" thing at all. Most of the time when Christians are talking about "the world" they aren't talking about specific people, they are talking more about things like media influence etc. and not targeting other religions or people that they know. (At least in my experience). I haven't seen this meme and have lots and lots of devout Christians in my FB feed.

I DID see that other horrifying meme about "Religious Tolerance" that ms. pacman referenced and I do find it in very poor taste and I am offended by that. I personally love to see messages that affirm the faith of the particular poster, whether that person is Christian or Muslim or Wiccan. I have a real problem with memes that demean or put down other groups. This particular post, while not offensive to me, does seem to be a little specific in its audience so maybe not the BEST thing to post but not offensive to me at all.

It is funny because we've talked about how discussing religion and politics is considered to be impolite or taboo. But isn't that ALL that people seem to post on FB? I cannot tell you the spectrum of posters on my FB. I have anarchists, my cousins is a fascist--I kid you not (I did block him!), liberals, LOTS of conservatives, libertarians, etc. I have friends who are evangelicals and mormons and muslims and hindus and lots of agnostics and atheists and most all of them have posted at least something religious or political and I have only blocked a very few people. It just seems like there are different rules on FB.

[hellokitty]

well if i did that i would be basically unfriending 90% of people on my list who live in TX. I am so not exaggerating. And the people who post these things are not retired grandmothers who complain about having to be PC these days...they are the same age as me or younger. .

I am offended by those types of posts too, but like you, if I unfriended those ppl, (mostly moms group ppl), it would be like 90% of them. Even though we're not down south, we basically live in the bible belt. I hide the posts, they annoy me, but I feel like I can't control what ppl post on their own wall. However, I do make it a point not to post anything my thoughts, which are the opposite (ie: you don't need religion to have values or morals) on my wall, since I know it would upset the christian crowd. I just wish that the courtesy was not only one way, but mutual, kwim?

[crayonblue]

It is funny because we've talked about how discussing religion and politics is considered to be impolite or taboo. But isn't that ALL that people seem to post on FB? I cannot tell you the spectrum of posters on my FB. I have anarchists, my cousins is a fascist--I kid you not (I did block him!), liberals, LOTS of conservatives, libertarians, etc. I have friends who are evangelicals and mormons and muslims and hindus and lots of agnostics and atheists and most all of them have posted at least something religious or political and I have only blocked a very few people. It just seems like there are different rules on FB.

Yep! And people seem to think they can say most anything, no matter their persuasion. I've been de-friended a few times but only by family members, ha. Of course, I have no idea if someone is hiding me! But, I do try to limit any political/religious blah blah blah because I don't think it helps. I've tried it a few times in FB conversations and that didn't go over well. Not really interested in crowding my own page with controversy.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I think I have unfriended everyone who had been on my friend list who might post stuff like this (FTR, I have FB friends who are religious, but just would never even consider posting something like this). This is the sort of thing that would totally piss me off, and I'm glad to not have to deal with getting angry about it.

I either hide of unfriend when people post religious or political stuff. I don't do it automatically but if it is habitual or offensive (which I find OP one to be). I really weigh the pros and cons of the friend and their postings but more often than not, I hide these.

[TwinFoxes]

Yeah, I also see it as someone putting a reminder out to other Christians that it is important to teach their children about their faith. It is heavy handed but show me a meme that isn't dopey.

:yeahthat: This is how I took it. I assumed it's aimed at folks who consider themselves Christians, but don't go to church or guide their children's religious formation. There are a lot of folks like that. I think of it as aimed at lapsed fill-in-the-blank. As annoying Internet memes go, it's not so bad. Better than those random pictures with a long heartwarming story that is clearly BS attached to it.

[mommy111]

:yeahthat: My first impression reading it is if I don't teach my kids about Christ, they will become increasingly secular. So, if I want them to grow up loving and respecting Christ, it's my job to teach them (well, mine and their Catholic school teachers). It could apply to any religion, actually. If you want your children to grow up loving Allah, you better teach them because no one is going to do it for you.
:yeahthat: kinda. As in I don't teach my kids about Christ but I don't get offended when people post things like this because it's what they believe in and they're speaking to that group. To me the equivalent would be 'if you don't teach your kids about evolution, they won't get a good education' but that's cuz I'm speaking to my scientific crowd, wouldn't dream of doing it to proselytize to or offend any Christians/Jews/Muslims/Hindus who don't believe in evolution.

[wellyes]

I think it's absolutely well intended and not meant to be insulting. But, I also think there are people who post it, share it, are OK with it would would take umbrage if it was a saying about protecting your child from those outside your faith........... if it were about a religion that was not Christian.

[TwinFoxes]

:yeahthat: kinda. As in I don't teach my kids about Christ but I don't get offended when people post things like this because it's what they believe in and they're speaking to that group. To me the equivalent would be 'if you don't teach your kids about evolution, they won't get a good education' but that's cuz I'm speaking to my scientific crowd, wouldn't dream of doing it to proselytize to or offend any Christians/Jews/Muslims/Hindus who don't believe in evolution.

Great analogy.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

:yeahthat: This is how I took it. I assumed it's aimed at folks who consider themselves Christians, but don't go to church or guide their children's religious formation. There are a lot of folks like that. I think of it as aimed at lapsed fill-in-the-blank.

ok, i can see this angle now..though i guess i'm not a fan of those type of memes (whether religious or not) because it seems like it's tending towards the guilt-trip-like sort of thing that a passive-agressive mother in law or something would say... KWIM? kinda hinting that you are doing something wrong and you have to shape up. like last week, one SAHM friend on FB shared a quote that said something like "A mother does not spend her life pursuing her dreams...she spends her life making sure her kids can pursue theirs." or something to that effect...and several SAHMs in my group "liked" it or commented they agreed. I have to admit, when i first read it made me feel like crap, given i just started working full-time and my kids were getting sick left and right from daycare...to me it sounded like a slam against working moms, like i was being selfish for wanting to work and pursue my dreams of having a career. Then i followed the link and saw what people were agreeing were saying, and it said something like "yeah, mom should always put their kids first." and stuff. then i though, ok, i guess what they meant was basically saying that your kids should be your first priority. but i mean, DUH. of course. who doesn't agree. i don't know..not a fan of the holier-than-thou things people tend to post, but i guess it's facebook, so i do have to take with a grain of salt :)

[mommy111]

ok, i can see this angle now..though i guess i'm not a fan of those type of memes (whether religious or not) because it seems like it's tending towards the guilt-trip-like sort of thing that a passive-agressive mother in law or something would say... KWIM? kinda hinting that you are doing something wrong and you have to shape up. like last week, one SAHM friend on FB shared a quote that said something like "A mother does not spend her life pursuing her dreams...she spends her life making sure her kids can pursue theirs." or something to that effect...and several SAHMs in my group "liked" it or commented they agreed. I have to admit, when i first read it made me feel like crap, given i just started working full-time and my kids were getting sick left and right from daycare...to me it sounded like a slam against working moms, like i was being selfish for wanting to work and pursue my dreams of having a career. Then i followed the link and saw what people were agreeing were saying, and it said something like "yeah, mom should always put their kids first." and stuff. then i though, ok, i guess what they meant was basically saying that your kids should be your first priority. but i mean, DUH. of course. who doesn't agree. i don't know..not a fan of the holier-than-thou things people tend to post, but i guess it's facebook, so i do have to take with a grain of salt :)
Now that moms who don't follow their dreams analogy would have me up in arms and un-friending like crazy, though, I would totally perceive that as a shot in the mommy wars. Maybe it's because I'm sensitive about the work issue but comfortable with religion (or lack thereof)?

[Multimama]

I think this meme is different than saying if you don't teach your kids about Christ no one is going to do it for you. The meme is saying explicitly that the world is going to teach them *not to* believe in Christ. So, the world is portrayed as actively working against a Christian upbringing. I think that's kind of a creepy sentiment. It is offensive to non-Christians because it positions them as antagonists to the Christian worldview, 'if you're not with us you're against us' kind of thing. "...no one is going to do it for you" would be speaking to Christians, "the world will teach them not to" is (also) speaking against non-Christians.

That said, I am surprised that people unfriend for this kind of stuff. I like to learn about diverse worldviews, even those that I strongly disagree with, and I don't have a problem with people expressing them. In fact, I think if they are expressing them and I am not listening it puts me in a weaker position to combat prejudice.

[TwinFoxes]

ok, i can see this angle now..though i guess i'm not a fan of those type of memes (whether religious or not) because it seems like it's tending towards the guilt-trip-like sort of thing that a passive-agressive mother in law or something would say... KWIM? kinda hinting that you are doing something wrong and you have to shape up. like last week, one SAHM friend on FB shared a quote that said something like "A mother does not spend her life pursuing her dreams...she spends her life making sure her kids can pursue theirs." or something to that effect...and several SAHMs in my group "liked" it or commented they agreed. I have to admit, when i first read it made me feel like crap, given i just started working full-time and my kids were getting sick left and right from daycare...to me it sounded like a slam against working moms, like i was being selfish for wanting to work and pursue my dreams of having a career. Then i followed the link and saw what people were agreeing were saying, and it said something like "yeah, mom should always put their kids first." and stuff. then i though, ok, i guess what they meant was basically saying that your kids should be your first priority. but i mean, DUH. of course. who doesn't agree. i don't know..not a fan of the holier-than-thou things people tend to post, but i guess it's facebook, so i do have to take with a grain of salt :)

I do agree it's passive aggressive.


I think this meme is different than saying if you don't teach your kids about Christ no one is going to do it for you. The meme is saying explicitly that the world is going to teach them *not to* believe in Christ. So, the world is portrayed as actively working against a Christian upbringing. I think that's kind of a creepy sentiment. It is offensive to non-Christians because it positions them as antagonists to the Christian worldview, 'if you're not with us you're against us' kind of thing. "...no one is going to do it for you" would be speaking to Christians, "the world will teach them not to" is (also) speaking against non-Christians.

.

I have a friend who would post this. She wouldn't mean that non-Christians are the issue. Shee'd mean it more like R movies and drug dealers and explicit lyrics etc..."the world" meaning pop culture more than people of other faiths.

[twowhat?]

This kind of stuff comes out of the woodwork on FB!! I have friends IRL that I know are religious but don't come across as that type...until I look at their FB feeds. I roll my eyes and move on. I am not offended by it at all, in terms of religion, but I do think it's very passive-aggressive (hence the eye roll). I'm agnostic.

[lizzywednesday]

I either hide of unfriend when people post religious or political stuff. I don't do it automatically but if it is habitual or offensive (which I find OP one to be). I really weigh the pros and cons of the friend and their postings but more often than not, I hide these.

:yeahthat:

I would rather hide my religious cousin and her "deep faith" posts than un-friend her and miss out on photos of her kids, who are adorable.

I am also with crayonblue in that I prefer not to clutter my newsfeed with controversy, so I do avoid political and religious discourse on my own page. I have friends who range from Orthodox Jews to Atheist to Agnostic to any number of Protestant denominations (including two ordained ministers!) Catholic to Muslim (I think the only ppl I am missing are people who are Hindu and Buddhist ... and I am SURE I'm missing) and I really don't have the time or patience to get into deep thoughts discussions with any of them - on my own page.

However, I will comment on political & religious items on other folks' pages from time to time if I know them really well and can have a reasonable assurance that my comments will not be misconstrued as an "attack" on their worldview. It's threads like those that I find provide the most opportunity for learning and growth!

[sophiesmom03]

The way I see memes is this: It obviously means something to my FB "friend" and she feels it says something that is meaningful to her, therefore she chose to share it.

However, I never think twice about what they say, I just think, "Oh that's nice, it resonated with my friend in some way..." and I move on.

I don't "like" memes that my friends post, and I have never, ever shared one. I just don't really "get" it. (shrug)