I am missing a basic parenting skill.

[ShanaMama]

The one that teaches kids how to sleep. Why can't I get this right? I've posted about this before. My 1 yo falls asleep nursing & basically uses me as a pacifier. I can transfer him to his crib when he's sound asleep but he wakes up screaming as soon as he notices.
I've tried to change this so many times. I had the same problem with my now 4 yo & it took *years* to get her sleeping on her own. I was planning to tackle it this week. Have me girls camp out in the playroom on air mattresses (he shares their room, which limits any crying cuz he wakes them up). I would sleep in the room with him if needed & just be super consistent about getting him to sleep in his crib.
But. DD1 is sick. I don't want to move her out of her bed if she doesn't feel well. And DS has two molars coming in, which don't seem to be showing up too soon. So he'll be teething indefinitely. Plus his eczema is horrendous right now & he's just not 100% himself. There's always something! I don't have the backbone to sleep train him if something else is bothering him. All the stars & planets have to be aligned. And I have to be able to miss a week of sleep. I don't feel like this will ever happen. I want so badly to be on the other side of this mountain, but I have no idea how to get there. I feel like such a failure in this area. How did I let this go on for so long & why can't I just tackle it already?! Meanwhile my little boy is in my bed until further notice.

[BunnyBee]

Right there with you. I just sneezed and moved the human pacifier. Good luck!

[crl]

I'm missing that parenting skill too. :hug:

Catherine

[georgiegirl]

I'm missing that "skill" too. My kids will eat kale and quinoa, but they don't like to sleep when they are little. My almost 4 year old still wakes on average once a night and gets up early in the morning. But it it makes you feel any better, DD (7) used to be an awful sleeper until 3.5, and now at 7, she's amazing!!! It will get better, I promise. And lots of kids who are good sleepers at 6 months or 1 turn into miserable sleepers as toddlers or preschoolers.

[momm]

Oh I feel you, been there done that AND doing that. Know that you are not alone.

[123LuckyMom]

I hear you! I just went through another several months of no sleep with my 13 month old. Then I sucked it up and Ferberized again (only on night wakings, not on original put down) with her brother in the same room. It took two nights of less sleep, but I've been sleeping through until 5-6am since! Sleep deprivation is THE WORST!!!! Hugs to you!

[Melaine]

The one that teaches kids how to sleep. Why can't I get this right? I've posted about this before. My 1 yo falls asleep nursing & basically uses me as a pacifier. I can transfer him to his crib when he's sound asleep but he wakes up screaming as soon as he notices.
I've tried to change this so many times. I had the same problem with my now 4 yo & it took *years* to get her sleeping on her own. I was planning to tackle it this week. Have me girls camp out in the playroom on air mattresses (he shares their room, which limits any crying cuz he wakes them up). I would sleep in the room with him if needed & just be super consistent about getting him to sleep in his crib.
But. DD1 is sick. I don't want to move her out of her bed if she doesn't feel well. And DS has two molars coming in, which don't seem to be showing up too soon. So he'll be teething indefinitely. Plus his eczema is horrendous right now & he's just not 100% himself. There's always something! I don't have the backbone to sleep train him if something else is bothering him. All the stars & planets have to be aligned. And I have to be able to miss a week of sleep. I don't feel like this will ever happen. I want so badly to be on the other side of this mountain, but I have no idea how to get there. I feel like such a failure in this area. How did I let this go on for so long & why can't I just tackle it already?! Meanwhile my little boy is in my bed until further notice.

I could have almost written this post, with the exception of the room-sharing (that is definitely an extra challenge). We have had so many issues with DS: MSPI and endless illnesses for our whole family this flu season. There has truly "always been something" for us. I was sleeping on a mattress on the floor in the room with him and I could barely move because he would stir and cry. I was sleeping horribly and waking up sore and grumpy. I felt like I was about to burst into tears ALL THE TIME. Things were BAD. He was napping for 20 minutes, twice a day.

I was planning on doing Ferber and I was dreading it. We planned a weekend for the girls to visit my family (I felt the crying would wake them, right next door to his room). That Friday after they left DS spiked yet ANOTHER fever so my plans were ruined. I was so frustrated.

A couple weeks later, we were having another bad time. DS was def. teething and kept biting me while nursing. DH urged me to just DO IT. I knew it was kind of nuts to start during nap time, but I was desperate. It was a huge relief. He never cried longer than 20 minutes (that's total, even with me checking on him frequently). He never seemed hysterical, only grumpy and mad. I never felt he was afraid or anything like that.

Such a huge improvement. It wasn't anything close to as bad as I imagined. It worked really well. After just a few days he would go down easily for naps and night. He doesn't need to me nurse him to sleep anymore. He is still not a great sleeper. He has only truly slept through the night 2 times (12 months old). BUT things are no longer miserable. He is happier and is napping a more reasonable time.

I can't recommend Ferber enough. I hope you guys get some improvement one way or another!!

[ShanaMama]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. I really feel like a loser in this area- like, everyone else gets it but me.


I'm missing that "skill" too. My kids will eat kale and quinoa, but they don't like to sleep when they are little. My almost 4 year old still wakes on average once a night and gets up early in the morning. But it it makes you feel any better, DD (7) used to be an awful sleeper until 3.5, and now at 7, she's amazing!!! It will get better, I promise. And lots of kids who are good sleepers at 6 months or 1 turn into miserable sleepers as toddlers or preschoolers.

This is comforting. One of many sleep books (Weissbluth?) says that babies who don't know how to sleep turn into toddlers & adults who don't know how to sleep. Not very encouraging... Makes me feel like I'm doing him a disservice for life in addition to our current misery.
.

[Katigre]

The one that teaches kids how to sleep. Why can't I get this right? I've posted about this before. My 1 yo falls asleep nursing & basically uses me as a pacifier. I can transfer him to his crib when he's sound asleep but he wakes up screaming as soon as he notices.
I've tried to change this so many times. I had the same problem with my now 4 yo & it took *years* to get her sleeping on her own. I was planning to tackle it this week. Have me girls camp out in the playroom on air mattresses (he shares their room, which limits any crying cuz he wakes them up). I would sleep in the room with him if needed & just be super consistent about getting him to sleep in his crib.
But. DD1 is sick. I don't want to move her out of her bed if she doesn't feel well. And DS has two molars coming in, which don't seem to be showing up too soon. So he'll be teething indefinitely. Plus his eczema is horrendous right now & he's just not 100% himself. There's always something! I don't have the backbone to sleep train him if something else is bothering him. All the stars & planets have to be aligned. And I have to be able to miss a week of sleep. I don't feel like this will ever happen. I want so badly to be on the other side of this mountain, but I have no idea how to get there. I feel like such a failure in this area. How did I let this go on for so long & why can't I just tackle it already?! Meanwhile my little boy is in my bed until further notice.

1. Are you dairy free /soy free? Eczema is often tied to food intolerance which impacts sleep BIG TIME.

2. Will he also on his tummy for longer stretches vs back?

3. Does Cosleeping work for you vs trying to have him sleep separately? Both of our older ones were in our bed full time until 2 and it worked well for us.

Sent from my Android phone using Swype

[ShanaMama]

I hear you! I just went through another several months of no sleep with my 13 month old. Then I sucked it up and Ferberized again (only on night wakings, not on original put down) with her brother in the same room. It took two nights of less sleep, but I've been sleeping through until 5-6am since! Sleep deprivation is THE WORST!!!! Hugs to you!

How did you do only night wakings? How do you do original put down? Ferber is not our style. I did baby whisperer with success but them I caved when he got sick. I'd like to try baby whisperer again.

[georgiegirl]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. I really feel like a loser in this area- like, everyone else gets it but me.



This is comforting. One of many sleep books (Weissbluth?) says that babies who don't know how to sleep turn into toddlers & adults who don't know how to sleep. Not very encouraging... Makes me feel like I'm doing him a disservice for life in addition to our current misery.
.

I'm an Attachment parenting mama, and the local leader here always says that the "if you don't teach them how to sleep as a baby, they will never sleep well" myth is total bunk. Se says her parents let her CIO and she's always been a poor sleeper. DD was seriously the most miserable sleeper ever...waking every 90 min-3 hours the first 2.5 years of her life. She was colicky and hated everyone except me. She started sleeping though the night regularly at 3.5, and she's been a rock start since age 4. Now she will sleep through anything, and you can move her to another bed, and she won't wake up. She does have nightmares on occasion (but I'd guess that's normal.) my friends little girl is 4, and she did CIO several times when she was an infant and toddler, and she was a good sleeper until 3 when she started waking every single night...and she still does more than a year later. I think some kids are naturally better sleepers. And no, you aren't doing him a disservice by not "teaching" him now to sleep. Some kids just need to be parented to sleep longer. Just like some kids learn how to walk when they are 9 months and others not until 18 month months. Some kids potty train before 2, and it's not because those parents are any better than those parents whose kids aren't ready until age 4. I like to think sleep is the same way. My kids both potty trained early, walked early, and met other milestones early. But sleep, they were "behind." You would never dream of telling a parent whose 2 year old has accidents or doesn't know his ABCs that they are a bad parent because their kids aren't ready to master that skill. People are very judgmental when it comes to sleep. We all need to figure out what is best for our individual kids and for our families. If CIO and Ferber works for you, then great! But if those methods aren't in line with your parenting style, yes, it will probably take your child longer to sleep independently and through the night. But not using those methods won't ruin your child.

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time. I've been there, and I know I will be there again soon (#3 due in August.)

[fedoragirl]

I'm not an attachment parenting mom. But I coslept with DS till he was 13 months. I ferberized him at 7 months (someone here recommended a very gentle method) and it worked for about 2 months. Then, we were back to cosleeping. I was ok with it as long as I could sleep.
Do what works for you. If none of you are getting any sleep, it might be time to change up methods.

[ShanaMama]

Georgiegirl, I really appreciate your post. I haven't thought about it that way before. I am neither for or against cosleeping, but te cosleeping that were doing at this point isn't working. He only nurses to sleep. So if he pops up after 15 mins of nursing & decides to party, it's tough on Mommy. I am not running the show, he is. Also, at some times in the middle of his sleep he wants to suck on me. Like a paci. I don't mind him in my bed if he'd let me roll over & go to sleep. But he wants me perfectly positioned for his comfort, not mine. So, yeah, things have got to change.

[Still-in-Shock]

Your baby is not feeling well/uncomfortable and you want to comfort him. I call that good parenting.

Don't beat yourself up, and try to get some sleep whenever you can.

[ShanaMama]

1. Are you dairy free /soy free? Eczema is often tied to food intolerance which impacts sleep BIG TIME.

2. Will he also on his tummy for longer stretches vs back?

3. Does Cosleeping work for you vs trying to have him sleep separately? Both of our older ones were in our bed full time until 2 and it worked well for us.

Sent from my Android phone using Swype

He is allergic to dairy & soy, so he's off of both. I am off neither. His eczema has been under excellent control for the past 6 months but it suddenly flared like crazy in the last week. I'm assuming it has to do with the weather but I am moisturizing him, etc. aggressively.
He is allergic to so many foods that we've developed a limited diet of things he eats daily. Basically the same breakfast & lunch, etc. he recently started rebelling against those foods & throwing them across the room. So I think he actually might be hungry. He's a big boy & a big eater. But he sleeps no better when he's full. He wakes up regularly at 11 & 2 whether he's in my bed or his crib. I think it's just habit.

[Katigre]

He is allergic to dairy & soy, so he's off of both. I am off neither. His eczema has been under excellent control for the past 6 months but it suddenly flared like crazy in the last week. I'm assuming it has to do with the weather but I am moisturizing him, etc. aggressively.
He is allergic to so many foods that we've developed a limited diet of things he eats daily. Basically the same breakfast & lunch, etc. he recently started rebelling against those foods & throwing them across the room. So I think he actually might be hungry. He's a big boy & a big eater. But he sleeps no better when he's full. He wakes up regularly at 11 & 2 whether he's in my bed or his crib. I think it's just habit.

Wait... So you're nursing him but not avoiding those two foods?

Sent from my Android phone using Swype

[ShanaMama]

Wait... So you're nursing him but not avoiding those two foods?

Sent from my Android phone using Swype

Yes. I know it's strange. I was on an elimination diet for 2 years while nursing DD2. She was miserable & colicky before I went off of dairy & her eczema was terrible before I eliminated eggs.
DS has more allergies than her & his are more severe. But I have never eliminated anything and he's been completely fine. I have no idea if there's any rhyme or reason to this but it's under the supervision of our allergist.

[khalloc]

I was just on vacation in Grand Cayman and picked up a bar of homemade soap that is supposed to be great for eczema at this little shop. The lady called it Natural Neem soap. My son gets bouts of eczema on his knees and elbows so I thought I'd give it a try. I just thought I'd mention it since you said your baby gets eczema.

Besides that, when my son was a baby I coslept with him longer than I really wanted too. I was home for 3 months, then returned to work, then got laid off immediately and was home for another month before I started a new full time job. My son wouldn't sleep in his crib and he was keeping me up at night, nursing and I just wasn't comfortable and my back hurt, etc....Finally when he was about 6-7 months old, I had had enough. At that point he was finally in his crib at night, going to bed around 7 or 8 and then waking up at 10, 12, 2, 4, etc....I was a walking zombie at my job. I decided to just let him cry. I stopped listening to the monitor. I started out slow by just not going to him to nurse until it was after midnight. So if he cried before midnight I would let him cry. He would eventually settle down. It really only took a couple of weeks before he was sleeping most of the night with only 1 nursing session and we cut that out soon after. I really was at my wits end before, I hate letting him cry but at that point I needed to do it and I did still go to him, I just made him go longer and I stopped checking on him as much.

Good luck with whatever you try!

[citymama]

I'm glad to know I'm not alone - right there with you!

[ladysoapmaker]

He is allergic to dairy & soy, so he's off of both. I am off neither. His eczema has been under excellent control for the past 6 months but it suddenly flared like crazy in the last week

I know this is the bitching post however I reccomend eliminating soy & dairy from your diet. My DS#2 is allergic to soy. I exclusively nursed him until 12 months. I eliminated soy from my diet at about 3 months (we discovered the allergy at 2 months). His rash and eczema went away after I eliminated soy from my diet. (it was hard but I also lost and additional 20lbs). He also started sleeping better after that. It still wasn't great but he no longer wanted to use me as only a pacifier. I think nursing helped his tummy feel better until the soy started irritating it, then he wanted to nurse again, creating bad circular feedback.

Jennifer

[123LuckyMom]

Don't beat yourself up, because kids are different. We co slept with both of our kids until the cosleeping started interfering with their sleep rather than helping it. With DS, we co slept two months longer than we probably should have. Then we did a modified Ferber (nursing to sleep and doing timed checks for night wakings). He became a champion nightime sleeper within a week, and he remains so. DD has not been a good sleeper since her 4 month regression. She's 13 months now, and cosleeping has made things worse with her since she was tiny, about 6 months. She will not sleep AT ALL in our bed. Modified Ferber worked great for her! She now wakes, but she puts herself back to sleep within minutes. She's still just not a great sleeper, though, unlike her brother. Baby whisperer didn't work for her, because putting her down again after picking her up set her into heartbroken shrieks and cries! Giving her a bit of comfort and then leaving the room was better for her-- a little bit of sobbing and crying, but nothing scary.

If you do want to try something new, since you asked what I meant by Ferberizing night time wakings only, what I do is bedtime routine with both DS (4.5) and DD (13 mos). DS gets into bed, lights go out, and something soft and soothing goes on (we do Audio books or soothing CDs). While DS is listening and winding down, I nurse DD in the rocking chair. She falls asleep. I leave her on the Boppy no longer nursing (and no longer attached to me) so she can really go into deeper sleep. Then I transfer her to the crib. Most of the time, she goes down. Sometimes she cries, and I pick her back up or nurse her more. She goes down asleep and happy. Then I give DS a final snuggle, and I leave. I tell him if he stays in his bed, quiet, with lights out, I'll come check on him in ten minutes. He's always asleep by then, but telling him I'm coming back really helps him.

When DD wakes in the night, I set my timer. On the first night, I go in after 1 minute, then check after 3 minutes, then after 5 minutes until she goes back to sleep. On the second night, it's 3, 5, 8 minutes. Then 5, 8, 10. Then 8, 10, 12. I've never had to go past that. When I go in, I give her a hug and kiss and say soft, encouraging words (It's okay, DD, it's time to sleep. You can do it, my sweet girl, etc. I use the same words every time I go in), I try to lie her back down, I put on the sleep sheep, and I say shhh and pat her back. I don't stay in her room for more than 2 minutes, but that's a pretty long time. Then I leave, even if she's still crying or standing up. Ferber doesn't like any helps like that, but he says if what you do works, and your child sleeps, go for it! It works for us. DD now puts herself back to sleep before my timer hits five minutes, so I don't have to get out of bed at night any more. That's HUGE!!! DS doesn't wake to her cries. The ped told me he wouldn't, and he doesn't unless it's very close to morning wake times. Even if he does wake, he easily falls back asleep.

There is no magic bullet or gene you're missing. As with everything else in parenting, you just have to find your own way. The hardest part, IMO is just trying something new rather than continuing as you are and expecting change. I know how tired you are! Not so very long ago DD was up every 45 minutes or less! You really won't be any less rested if you resolve to try a new technique, but you might find yourself sleeping through the night very soon. I really hope that happens for you SOON!!!! Hugs to you!

[Simon]

Ds1 didn't STTN for years, needed us to help him fall back asleep. Turns out, he had sleep apnea from over-large adenoids. Finally, after surgery he started sleeping around age 4. Now, he is a fabulous sleeper, despite the fact that he had years of poor sleeping to start.

Ds3 sleeps well only when he feels well. I have to say that we cut out all major dairy and he started sleeping better within 3-4 days. Seriously. It made a HUGE improvement.

[mommylamb]

I really think this is less an issue of parenting skill and more an issue of children's individuality. If not, than I somehow lost the skill along the way.

DS1 was a great sleeper from the time he was 6 months old. The kid NEVER wakes up in the middle of the night. From an early age, we did the bedtime routine, said goodnight and I walked out the door. He was also a great napper, though he gave them up right before he started K.

DS2 (15 months) is a totally different experience. He's not a terrible night sleeper any longer, but he's still not great. He often wakes up sometime around 3 or 4 and we bring him into our bed for the remainder of the night- sometimes falling back asleep and sometimes not. And the kid just won't nap on the weekends. He sometimes naps in his infant/toddler rocker chair, but refuses to nap in his crib. I am not afraid of CIO at all (he has never had health issues), but it doesn't work for him for naps.

So same parents, totally different kids.

[ShanaMama]

I know this is the bitching post however I reccomend eliminating soy & dairy from your diet. My DS#2 is allergic to soy. I exclusively nursed him until 12 months. I eliminated soy from my diet at about 3 months (we discovered the allergy at 2 months). His rash and eczema went away after I eliminated soy from my diet. (it was hard but I also lost and additional 20lbs). He also started sleeping better after that. It still wasn't great but he no longer wanted to use me as only a pacifier. I think nursing helped his tummy feel better until the soy started irritating it, then he wanted to nurse again, creating bad circular feedback.

Jennifer

That's an interesting thought. His eczema has been really fine until this weekend. I don't see my diet contributing to that. At this stage in the game I would sooner wean him than change my diet. Don't flame me. He's 14 mo this week. I am already thinking of weaning him because of the nighttime craziness.

[ladysoapmaker]

Don't flame me. He's 14 mo this week. I am already thinking of weaning him because of the nighttime craziness.

No flame here. Do what you need to do. I didn't realize how old he was. DO what you feel comfortable with.

Jen

[daphne]

The one that teaches kids how to sleep. Why can't I get this right? I've posted about this before. My 1 yo falls asleep nursing & basically uses me as a pacifier. I can transfer him to his crib when he's sound asleep but he wakes up screaming as soon as he notices.

There's always something! I don't have the backbone to sleep train him if something else is bothering him. All the stars & planets have to be aligned. And I have to be able to miss a week of sleep. I don't feel like this will ever happen. I want so badly to be on the other side of this mountain, but I have no idea how to get there. I feel like such a failure in this area. How did I let this go on for so long & why can't I just tackle it already?! Meanwhile my little boy is in my bed until further notice.

I could have written this almost word for word, replacing DS for DD. DD2 is 9 months. She nurses to sleep, then I put her in her crib, where she lasts anywhere from 90 mins to 4 hours. Then she's in bed, nursing off and on, all night. Exactly like DD1 was, who is now 5. I swore this wouldn't happen again, yet here I am. Sigh. I keep thinking I'll sleep train her at some point, but I don't see it happening. The couple of times I've left her to cry, while I tended to another child (never for more than 5 mins), she's thrown up. :( So...I'm in a similar boat.

[trales]

We bribed her out of our room at age 3, by rewarding her with pink walls, a new bedspread etc, for each 2 weeks that she slept in her bed. Clearly, we missed that sleeping parenting skill also.

When you find it, you could make millions.

[LizLemon]

In my job, I see a lot of kids with sleep problems (who never learn and whose parents don't necessarily help them learn to sleep or facilitate sleep) so I have always been worried about the sleep issue. I remember being almost panicked when my daughter was six weeks old because we didn't have a bedtime routine yet and I thought I was behind! So we started doing the same pattern of song, rocking to signify "now it's time for your long sleep" - which actually did seem to help.

My daughter also had allergies and when we addressed those, when she was about 2 months, her sleep improved markedly. I understand from your previous posts that your allergist has restricted your son's diet but not yours. My personal experience is that sleep can definitely by allergies, even if there aren't physical stigmata like eczema or hives, so I wonder if that could be a factor for your son. I think whatever you decide to do is fine. I just hope you get some rest soon!!

[ShanaMama]

Thank you everyone for all the details. Your posts have really encouraged me. I am pretty confident in my parenting but I guess I have a complex in this area. I never thought of nursing to sleep as ok for plan a. That's what worked for us but I tried many times to stop because it was the "wrong thing" to do. I'm changing my attitude & gonna embrace it a little more but try to incorporate more of a bedtime routine. If I can keep nursing him to sleep but get him to go back to sleep or sttn instead of waking every few hours, I'd be fine with that. Of course now he's sick, so were not gonna make any changes...

[cilantromapuche]

I love this post. This lacking skills (gene?) is why we only have two children. Another non-sleeper would throw me over the edge because I love my sleep!

[brittone2]

All 3 of mine didn't really 100% STTN until age 2. It was hard. DS1 and DD didn't leave our bed until they were about 3. DS2 was okay with it by around age 2, and that also stopped the night nursing. Somehow it worked out much more smoothly than I expected.

They all sleep great now. It wasn't predictive of the future. But I know in the throes of it, it is really hard. We shared our bed with at least one kid pretty much continuously for about 8 years, and I've been BFing for 9 straight years. I love our memories of cosleeping, but at the same time, it was really nice when DS2 moved to his own bed. I love having my bed back ;)

Could you start with nightweaning?

[ShanaMama]

I read over all the replies a couple of times. I really appreciate the encouragement & all the details you all shared. I've decided to stop making this into an "issue" & just go with the flow a little more. This week he was sick so I let him nurse all night long. He wasn't eating at all during the day. I'm gonna take a major chill pill & make it a goal with in the next few months to get him to STTN, whether that means nursing to sleep or not. I tend to generalize in a bad way, like if I don't teach him to sleep by this weekend he still won't be sleeping at age 20. I'm letting go of that. He'll be fine & so will I. We just have to get there.

[edurnemk]

I sometimes wonder if I'm doing something wrong in the sleep department, too. DS didn't STTN until 13 months when I finally got the guts to Ferberize him.

DD's sleep is a disaster. Ferber has not worked for her. I gave up and brought her back to my bed last night, I just.cannot.take.another.night of constantly getting up to soothe her every x minutes for over an hour., rinse and repeat 3 hours later. She'll STTN when she's ready. I'm just sorry for my parents who will take her overnight this weekend so we can go to an OOT wedding. Oh, well.

[123LuckyMom]

I sometimes wonder if I'm doing something wrong in the sleep department, too. DS didn't STTN until 13 months when I finally got the guts to Ferberize him.

DD's sleep is a disaster. Ferber has not worked for her. I gave up and brought her back to my bed last night, I just.cannot.take.another.night of constantly getting up to soothe her every x minutes for over an hour., rinse and repeat 3 hours later. She'll STTN when she's ready. I'm just sorry for my parents who will take her overnight this weekend so we can go to an OOT wedding. Oh, well.

You might be surprised. She might sleep for them. I have a friend who has twins (and another child) who could never get her twins to sleep. They always slept fine for the grandparents, though. Somehow they knew they weren't going to get mommy attention, so they just didn't wake. She eventually did Ferberize successfully, but not until they were about 18 months. She was the one who made me swear I wouldn't wait that long. She still tears up sometimes thinking about how exhausted she was for so long.