Hugging Boys - Possibly TMI Question

[Raidra]

Okay, so this is kind of funny, but I really need help figuring out how to handle this. Our family is very huggy and cuddly. The kids climb all over us and snuggle up, even Colwyn and Lachlann. The 'problem' is at night, when we're lying in bed watching TV, the boys will come in to say goodnight. That usually involves climbing on top of me. It's really not a problem with Colwyn, but Lachlann.. well.. he's well-endowed, and he seems to get a <ahem> rise from the contact. It doesn't seem to bother him at all, and I don't think it would even occur to him to think there's something weird about it. But when he's rolling all over me, 'poking' me in the stomach.. it's just kind of weird. But I don't want to tell him he can't cuddle me that way, because all the other kids do. "I'm sorry Lachlann, but your penis is too big now. No more cuddles." I know I can just deflect and roll him towards the side, but I don't want him to catch on if I do that every time. I don't know.. I guess I'm just paranoid about instilling shame and/or making him uncomfortable about his body in any way. But I also don't want him to be telling his therapist years from now how he used me as a masturbatory aid.

So.

Help?

[hillview]

are they clothed or naked?

[Raidra]

Clothed, in PJs or sometimes just underwear. I wouldn't let them do that completely naked beyond a certain age.. Niall's the only one who is still allowed to run around completely naked.

[gatorsmom]

I would ignore it as much as possible. Or I would sit up in bed to shift him and just say, "I can give you a bigger hug this way."

[hillview]

ok so is he getting a hard on or is it just hitting you? sorry to be so specific but DS1 is Lachlann's age -- he isn't getting errections at all. DS2 is 5 and likes to have his penis touch me (like lean against me) which is ackward and I always roll him over or something like that (basically move him away). If DS1 were doing this at his age, I'd just explain that while it feels good it isn't appropriate. He can touch himself in the bathroom or in his bedroom but he cannot move against me that way (DS2 seems too young to understand that so I move him away). If he isn't specifically seeking contact with his penis (again sorry to be so direct) then it sounds more like something that you may not be comfortable vs specifically inappropriate so then you'd have to just rely on dealing with what you are comfy with. For example DS2 can shower with me (rarely happens) but DS1 is too old ("I need privacy"). Just my 2 cents.

[JBaxter]

Okay, so this is kind of funny, but I really need help figuring out how to handle this. Our family is very huggy and cuddly. The kids climb all over us and snuggle up, even Colwyn and Lachlann. The 'problem' is at night, when we're lying in bed watching TV, the boys will come in to say goodnight. That usually involves climbing on top of me. It's really not a problem with Colwyn, but Lachlann.. well.. he's well-endowed, and he seems to get a <ahem> rise from the contact. It doesn't seem to bother him at all, and I don't think it would even occur to him to think there's something weird about it. But when he's rolling all over me, 'poking' me in the stomach.. it's just kind of weird. But I don't want to tell him he can't cuddle me that way, because all the other kids do. "I'm sorry Lachlann, but your penis is too big now. No more cuddles." I know I can just deflect and roll him towards the side, but I don't want him to catch on if I do that every time. I don't know.. I guess I'm just paranoid about instilling shame and/or making him uncomfortable about his body in any way. But I also don't want him to be telling his therapist years from now how he used me as a masturbatory aid.

So.

Help?



I can say that this is the first time Im dumb founded by a post. Your last statement actually made my stomach roll let alone referring to the size of your son's penis. MY suggestion would be not to allow him to crawl over you in bed keep your self covered around him and not draw attention to his erection. I can say I've had 3 boys of that age and one younger and never had any issues of that sort and we are a fairly body liberal family.

[amldaley]

So, I have some other questions.

You say "we" are laying in bed watching TV and they come in to say "goodnight". Who is putting them to bed? Could this be solved by you putting them to bed, giving traditional upper body hugs and kisses goodnight from a position where his lower body does not have contact with you? I know it is difficult to give up the full-body snuggles and stuff, but at some point, I think it might be necessary to do so.

My other question is...why do you think your son is "well endowed"? He may be, but is that really the problem? Or is the problem the age he is at and the climbing all over you?

Granted, I have girls, not boys, but I think there is plenty of material both here on the BBB and on the internet about how mothers can appropriately deal with little boys sexual development.

I have to agree with Jeana that your last sentence takes this out of the realm of a general question about healthy relationships and in to some other space that is disturbing to say the least. I know you do not want past posts and topics to be thrown back at you, but in this instance, I have to wonder if all of the research and reading you have done about your own sexual relationship with your husband may be coloring your reaction to your son.

[gatorsmom]

I have to agree with Jeana that your last sentence takes this out of the realm of a general question about healthy relationships and in to some other space that is disturbing to say the least. I know you do not want past posts and topics to be thrown back at you, but in this instance, I have to wonder if all of the research and reading you have done about your own sexual relationship with your husband may be coloring your reaction to your son.

Oh no, don't make her feel ashamed for asking! Our sons' development is a very hard topic for some of us moms to deal with. I can imagine that for a very attachment-parenting family who cosleeps and has toddlers, it is hard to draw the line for appropriate behavior for our older boys. My 10 yo still sees himself as a kid who wants to run around naked at bath time with his younger siblings even though he has started to grow pubic hair. There is no black and white when it comes to parenting and dealing with puberty is just hard. What you find appropriate might be something I wouldn't dream of doing with my child.

ftr, a child can get an erection by simply feeling loved and close to someone. Heck, DH said when he was a kid he could get an erection from a warm summer breeze.. It doesn't take that much.

[amldaley]

My intention is not to make her feel ashamed for asking but to draw her attention to the fact that the manner in which she asked is unusual and may be due to the fact that she has entrenched herself in research and reading about sexual issues.

We practice attachment parenting. My 17 month old has slept in our bed every night. My older daughter slept with us until age 2. Both of my daughters are very snuggly with both my husband and I. Attachment parenting and co-sleeping does not mean a child gets to have any contact they want with parents anytime they way, any way they want. I don't let my 5 year old daughter climb and ride by husband *because it crosses boundaries that she is yet unaware of but we are.*

The manner in which a question is asked is often reflective of something going on behind the scenes and not obvious on the face of the matter.

[pinkmomagain]

I have no good advice, as I have 3 girls.
But I am a little taken aback by some of these responses. I think it's great the OP was comfortable enough to post the question to our community and I am cringing at some of the judgment I am sensing.
Hoping the OP can get some objective, helpful advice.

[gatorsmom]

W I don't let my 5 year old daughter climb and ride by husband *because it crosses boundaries that she is yet unaware of but we are.*

.

Your boundaries for your family may not be the same for other families. When you have boys the age of ours, you'll have a better idea of what she is dealing with. You have toddler girls. You have no idea.

Im sorry, Raidra, I didn't think your question was inappropriate. My 8yo still climbs in our bed at night when he's afraid. He snuggles right up to me. No erections in the middle of the night yet, but when that time comes I will have to shift him away from me I suppose. Or send him to his bed. Or I might not even feel it if he does because he is not well-endowed.

[Melaine]

But I am a little taken aback by some of these responses. I think it's great the OP was comfortable enough to post the question to our community and I am cringing at some of the judgment I am sensing.
Hoping the OP can get some objective, helpful advice.

:yeahthat: My son is only 14 months so no BTDT advice, but I don't think the OP's word choices raise any red flags necessarily. I realize there is a backstory but taking it at face value, the question is a legitimate one and I don't understand the extreme responses.

I'm fairly AP also, and what I would do in this scenario is probably shift bedtime routine to saying goodnight to them in their own beds. It doesn't have to be a big deal IMO.

ETA: Not the OP, but my understanding of her statement about him being "well-endowed" was simply that the erection is obvious because he isn't on the small side.

[kristenk]

I don't have any sons, so I'm not much help. I'll admit that I don't envy moms of boys with all of the puberty-related stuff. (Granted, I'm not looking forward to puberty with DD either! lol)

I think I'd probably restructure the evening so I wasn't lying in bed while telling the boys good night. That seems like the easiest way to avoid unwanted contact without singling out one kiddo.

[JBaxter]

Ok I'll be blunt. If your 9 yr old gets a contact erection from rubbing against you in bed then as a mother you need to not allow that situation to happen. I have 4 boys and it isnt something that has occurred in my house or with my sisters son's( she's a nurse and was speaking with her as I was reading this). My oldest had migraines from age 12 -15 on and would end up in my bed often because of the pain If at anytime he would have started physically reaction I could have stopped it flat. The size of his genitals should have nothing to do with the fact its happening but as a mother you must gently deflect the situation.
Puberty in boys isn't that difficult to deal with but sounds like you are to a point where you need to start steering him that direction. I never stopped hugging by sons and I still squeeze hug by 21 & 18 yr olds. A simple... Your to big to be crawling over me like that will probably work. The young mind is easily influenced and your right you dont want him n therapy saying I remember rubbing against my mom and getting an erection.

[liz]

I think I'd probably restructure the evening so I wasn't lying in bed while telling the boys good night. That seems like the easiest way to avoid unwanted contact without singling out one kiddo.

:yeahthat: The original post didn't bother me. I took the last statement as more tongue in cheek and trying to lighten a situation that is obviously uncomfortable for the OP (but I see how it can come across as something different). I think it is tough for any parent when they realize that things may have to change once kids start to get older, ie changing in front of children etc.

[123LuckyMom]

:yeahthat: The original post didn't bother me. I took the last statement as more tongue in cheek and trying to lighten a situation that is obviously uncomfortable for the OP (but I see how it can come across as something different). I think it is tough for any parent when they realize that things may have to change once kids start to get older, ie changing in front of children etc.

I agree. I didn't have any negative reaction to your question. My son gets erections, and he's 4! They irritate him, and he says his penis is "wooden" or "numb." He gets them occasionally when in contact with me, and I think that's normal. My husband, who is a psychologist, agrees. DS doesn't hump me, or rub against me, or anything icky, and I'm sure that's the case here, too. The OP is the one who feels odd about it. Her son is oblivious. Her language was tongue-in-cheek.

I have no BTDT advice except to suggest that it might be time for a different routine for all the boys. I think I would do what a previous poster suggested and tuck in bed and give upper body hugs. There's been lots of research done on how boys stop receiving physical affection as they get older, and how that can be detrimental. I don't have any links to that research, but I remember the articles from graduate school. I say you should preserve the physical affection as long as he will allow it, but make sure you, too, are comfortable. I would be uncomfortable in your position, so I would change things to protect myself from the ickies ;). I would change it for the whole clan so as not to single out your older son or draw attention to the reason for your choice.

[amldaley]

I am bowing out of this discussion. My intention was not to shame Rachel. I did not say the topic was inappropriate. I think this is a great place to ask those *types* of questions. However, my personal view, (which is solicited of each of us when anyone posts a question on this, a public, forum) I think it is foolish and possibly even dangerous to look at one post as an unique and discreet picture of a person or a situation. To not address the other background issues is to answer as if in a vacuum. My assessment of the statement as "disturbing" IS judgemental and it IS my opinion. An opinion based on education both in psychology and a knowledge of Rachel's personal background and experiences and struggles based on her posts to this board. Were it someone else asking or had the question been phrased differently, I might not have even answered. I refuse to placate someone when I, in my opinion, see a bigger issue. Any further comments or suggestions I have will be messaged to Rachel directly and she can choose to do as she wishes with them.

[queenmama]

I think I would do what a previous poster suggested and tuck in bed and give upper body hugs. There's been lots of research done on how boys stop receiving physical affection as they get older, and how that can be detrimental.

Excellent point!

I'd agree with the others about switching up the bedtime routine to tucking everyone in and giving kisses and upper-body hugs when they're in bed. That meets the need without any awkwardness.

[jgenie]

I agree. I didn't have any negative reaction to your question. My son gets erections, and he's 4! They irritate him, and he says his penis is "wooden" or "numb." The OP is the one who feels odd about it. Her son is oblivious. Her language was tongue-in-cheek.



I agree with this - my 5.5 yr old used to get them as soon as I put him in a tub of water as a baby. DS2 will often wake up with one when he has to go to the bathroom at night and I help him pull his pants down since he's groggy and not fully awake.

I also would try changing up the bedtime routine. I have not been comfortable changing in front of DS1 for quite some time but I know other families that don't have a problem with it. Every family is different.

[Raidra]

Wow. To be honest, I probably should have guessed that this post would go this way, but I really didn't. I guess that's why, in my support group, they caution people to be very, very careful who we disclose our issues to. Sharing my maritial issues has been a total double-edged sword.. on the one hand, I've gotten some wonderful support, and on the other hand.. I guess there are certain things I can't ask about without it getting blown out of proportion.

For the record, my choice of language was tongue in cheek, as some of you guessed. It is an awkward situation, and I find humor helps to keep things in perspective and not get too stressed about it.

As for my son's size, it does matter because my older son climbs all over us, wrestles with us, snuggles with us, and we don't notice anything at all with him, because he's much smaller down there than his brother. Lachlann is bigger and, to be honest, I'm not even positive if he's got an erection some of the time or not. Erections are totally normal in boys of all ages, so I'm not concerned that he would get one from physical contact. He does know that if he wants to touch himself, he's to do so in private. I don't think he's purposely moving in certain ways to feel pleasure, but he is a very fidgety boy as a rule. He never stops moving. Ever. So when he cuddles with me, he's squirming and fidgeting as usual, but because normal adults have more sexual knowledge, it's difficult not to attribute sexual motives to a behavior that, were it a grown man, would definitely qualify as sexual. I just don't want him to grow up, look back, and realize with hindsight, "OMG, I did *that* to my mother!"

Regarding bedtime routine.. we do stories as a family until 8:30, Colwyn and Lachlann go into their bedroom to goof around for a half hour or more until their lights go off. Fiona and Niall go right to sleep at 8:30. Because we homeschool and they don't have to be up at a certain time, they don't have a strict bedtime. By the time they're ready to turn their lights off, my husband and I are watching TV or talking or whatever, so they come in to say goodnight. They often come in multiple times, actually, to tell us things, on their way back from the bathroom or getting a drink, etc. They 'say goodnight' to us many times a night, sometimes with just a wave, sometimes with a quick hug, and sometimes with a cuddle. Changing that routine to having a strict tuck-in goodnight seems like a punishment.

Anyway. Sorry I didn't give all this background information initially. I know if OPs are too long winded, sometimes questions get left unanswered, so I went for brevity. I got plenty of responses, so I guess that's a good thing..? :) Thanks!

[BunnyBee]

Not sure on the back story...

My DS is a little older. I've never noticed anything happening other than trying to help him pee when he's sleepwalking, which generally is DH's domain. Is precocious puberty a possibility? I think a discussion has to happen so that he is aware of what is happening to his body. If he's wrestling with a sibling or a friend... he needs to be aware of his body and how to deal with it. DH grew up with brothers and he's not aware of this happening with older children. Obviously our household isn't a huge sample size re: "normality."

[lalasmama]

As others have said, I agree that a simple comment is best--maybe something to the effect of, "You're growing up so much! Bodies change, and climbing on top of Mom isn't okay now that you are getting bigger. You can still climb in our bed and snuggle, just not climb on top of me or dad or your brothers anymore."

My DD has always had an affinity for rubbing her privates against people's knees. Initially, I would just say, "Oh, we don't rub on people's knees. We only rub there in private." It was nothing "sexual" that she was doing; it just felt good. Now that she's 9yo, we've talked about that area being private, and that it feels good to touch it, but that we don't touch the area in front of other people, because she's getting older, and that's something that we only do in private once we are able to understand about private things. I put in context of other things--we don't cut our toenails in public, we don't shave legs in public, we don't pick our underwear out of our booties in public, we don't discuss poop in public, we don't rub our private parts in public, we don't talk about breasts in public, we don't discuss puberty in public. Why not? Because these are things that could make other people uncomfortable, and we try not to upset people on purpose. We say a lot of "that's just how it goes when we start growing up." No shaming involved, just very matter-of-fact. "Your body is changing, and getting older, so we need to stop doing xyz for now. I know it seems silly since you are still a kid, but that's just how things go when you grow up some." I don't imagine she's going to be at the therapist's office saying, "OMG, I used to rub my privates against my mom's knee!" Just like your son, my daughter's rubbing had nothing to do with sexual feelings, so I'm willing to bet they will find much worse things to discuss in therapy ;)

[niccig]

Puberty in boys isn't that difficult to deal with but sounds like you are to a point where you need to start steering him that direction. I never stopped hugging by sons and I still squeeze hug by 21 & 18 yr olds. A simple... Your to big to be crawling over me like that will probably work. The young mind is easily influenced and your right you dont want him n therapy saying I remember rubbing against my mom and getting an erection.

Yeah to the "you're too big to be doing this." DS is 8.5 and he still climbs in bed for a hug and I lie with him in his bed reading and for a little while afterwards as he falls asleep, usually because I've fallen asleep. DS will occasionally like to climb on top of me in a "I"m giving you a big hug". I've never felt a physical reaction from him, but he is getting heavier and I can end up with an elbow in the eye etc. So I tell him he can't climb on me like that anymore. He'll also want to give me a big hug when I'm standing and he's the perfect height for his face to be in my boobs (I'm short), again, no you can't hug me like that as it hurts me. I've also started more privacy when I'm in the shower and getting dressed. He'll still burst in to tell me something.

You can redirect without making an issue out of it.

[mikala]

I have no good advice, as I have 3 girls.
But I am a little taken aback by some of these responses. I think it's great the OP was comfortable enough to post the question to our community and I am cringing at some of the judgment I am sensing.
Hoping the OP can get some objective, helpful advice.

:yeahthat: I don't have any advice to give because my boys are much younger but I agree with this.

[JustMe]

I have not followed any backstory here, but thought the OP posed some good questions. IMHO, I would find a way to try to stop this from happening that does not call attention to the *why* of it all. Two suggestions here both seemed good to me. One was to make sure you are shifting your bodies in a way that does not happen. The other was to change the bedtime routine so that you tuck them in, etc. I know you had concerns that would be like a punishment, but I think you could frame it in a way that does not relate to what is happening and is very matter-of-fact. Like, daddy and I want to do things a little different at bedtime. We are going to start tucking you in and helping you to be relaxed enough so you are ready to go to bed. What kind of things would help you with that? You could either leave it at that or if you want to give reasons, tell them that you and daddy just want to spend some quiet adult time at night and if something is wrong they are welcome to come get you and you will help them go back to bed, etc. Personally, I would probably try the first approach first as it is less of a change.

Now that I wrote this, I am thinking about what I would do with my own son who is 7 if I had this come up with him. Honestly, we are very open and frank about this kind of stuff and ds is a very confident little guy. I would tell him I was uncomfortable when his penis touched me (hard-on or not), and that we needed to find a way to cuddle/give love without this happening...but as I said, ds is a confident little guy and would go to problem solving mode proudly and confidently.

[wellyes]

Raidra, my suggestion is to not share your kids' real names if you're going to post that level of personal information about them.

[Raidra]

Now that I wrote this, I am thinking about what I would do with my own son who is 7 if I had this come up with him. Honestly, we are very open and frank about this kind of stuff and ds is a very confident little guy. I would tell him I was uncomfortable when his penis touched me (hard-on or not), and that we needed to find a way to cuddle/give love without this happening...but as I said, ds is a confident little guy and would go to problem solving mode proudly and confidently.

You know, I like this idea. He is pretty confident and we've had talks about how his penis is just for him and he shouldn't touch himself with other people around (same discussion we've had with the other kids). We've also talked about what kind of touching is appropriate to do with Mommy in other contexts, like when they were little and were grabby with my chest. A direct approach might be the best idea. Thanks!

[Multimama]

Raidra, my suggestion is to not share your kids' real names if you're going to post that level of personal information about them.

I don't have any advice about the topic, but I definitely agree with this suggestion. I just typed your kids' names into Google (after reading what Wellyes said) and your posts on Windsorpeak, including this one, were on the first page of search results. Your kids' friends will soon be old enough to do the same thing, if they aren't already. To protect their privacy I would not share their very unique names on a public forum where you are also sharing such personal information about them.

[janine]

Interesting to read as a mother of llittle DD's! I wonder, do any of these concerns come up with girls at a certain point. Mne crawl all over Daddy, insist on horsey rides and kick him like a bean bag. Now some of this is funny, but sometimes I do feel a bit of a cringe which is totally all ME, but I wonder if at some point I should say enough of the climbing and jumping, you are getting too big.

To the OP, I would personally think he's a the age where cuddling and jumping all over you may need to be phased out. It would make me uncomfortable and it might be a good time for a boundary lesson anyway, but I do think this is a total personal thing so this is just my take!

[okinawama]

I don't have any advice, but as a mom with two boys, I've been reading along. Knowing that your son does experience a physical reaction to the horseplay I would be extra cautious of anyone but you and DH tickling him or horse playing with him in any way. After watching a lot of that Jerry Sandusky trial, it opened my eyes to the fact that some inappropriate touching from others can begin with what looks like innocent tickling. Good luck OP, I hope you find some of the suggestions helpful for you and your son!

[almostmom]

This is so tricky and you've gotten some good (and not as nice) advice here. I just want to add that I have a son who gets erections all the time, either from his own touching (in his room of course) or just gets them. We've talked about it as he wanted to know what was going on when he was younger. It's not a puberty thing, as it has been the case since he was little! We are also a very snuggly family, so I can imagine that this is a challenging situation for you, as it would be for me. No one wants to deny their child who is growing up (and may in the not too distant future not want to cuddle with his mama!) the biggest possible hug.

But I think the advice to be direct about it is best. He'll understand. Kids are aware of their bodies, and he'll know right away what you mean. And then you can still snuggle but just in a different position - hip to hip maybe - so everyone is comfortable and getting the love they want.

Good luck!

[Fairy]

I don't have any advice about the topic, but I definitely agree with this suggestion. I just typed your kids' names into Google (after reading what Wellyes said) and your posts on Windsorpeak, including this one, were on the first page of search results. Your kids' friends will soon be old enough to do the same thing, if they aren't already. To protect their privacy I would not share their very unique names on a public forum where you are also sharing such personal information about them.

I've got no further advice, because you've gotten extremely good advice already. However.

I want to urge you and everyone else to please take this post and wellyes's seriously. I also did a cursory google, and I found ... a ton about you. And a few other people on here. We know your name. We know where you live more or less. We know some details about you. And we know your children's names. This is a public board. I often wonder if people really understand that this is a PUBLIC board. I have been privy to many real names and addresses either through the BBB bracelet or for other reasons, and I have destroyed all of that information, for the sake of, god forbid, some kind of hack to my computer or losing it or something. You just never know. But to put your kids' names out there so specifically and have them cross-referencable with the issues and/or discussions with your name on it (and that's the general you now, not just you, Raidra), is a disaster waiting to happen. So, that's my two cents.