S/O Would this contact bother you?

[jgenie]

I took the boys to the pool the other day and the camp kids and counselors were playing in the pool. There was a male counselor that was playing with a group of kids in the wading pool. At one point he was on his back and using his arms and legs to crawl around the pool. He had kids straddled on top of him as he was doing it. There were lots of people around and it was obvious he was just playing with them but for me a red flag went up and I made a mental note to myself that if my boys became camp counselors that I would have to remind them that they shouldn't put children on their laps especially not while they were only wearing swimsuits. I wondered if anyone else there had the same thought or if it was just me. So, if it was your son or daughter getting a ride, would it bother you?

[boolady]

How were they positioned? I'm not seeing how the counselor's lap was involved.

[jgenie]

How were they positioned? I'm not seeing how the counselor's lap was involved.

It was one child at a time. They were facing each other with the child straddling him around his waist and their legs hanging off each side of his waist - kind of like a crab walk where his chest and waist were elevated and his hands and legs were under the water.

[wellyes]

Unless he had them on his groin rather than his midriff, I'd not mind. Sounds like innocent fun.

[gatorsmom]

It would catch my attention. "Camp counselor" is one of the jobs that pedophiles target. Knowing that, I'd keep a close eye on him.

[MamaMolly]

I don't think you are being a nervous nellie. It would send up a red flag to me. FWIW I play that way in shallow water with my girls BUT I'm on my tummy which is a huge difference IMO. If he'd been on his tummy and the kids were pony riding on his back I probably wouldn't think a thing about it.

[123LuckyMom]

I would have absolutely no problem with that AT ALL! He's in full public view, and the children are at his middle. There is absolutely no sexual anything with that kind of play. He has to do it that way, or his face would be in the water. Even if his face wouldn't be in the water, having the kids riding on his front is much less dangerous than their being on his back. He would be far better able to catch them if they started to tumble.

It's true that pedophiles are attracted to professions where they get to be in contact with children, so it's not crazy to keep an eye on any counselor of either gender (and on all your relatives, friends, teachers, clergy people, babysitters, neighbors, etc.), but there is nothing about this play that would raise any flags for me. A pedophile would be MUCH more careful in public.

[hillview]

I guess maybe I'd have to see it. It sounds pretty innocent. If my boys came home saying they'd done that I'd likely not have thought a lot about it. That said if in seeing it a red flag went off I'd listen to that!

[KrisM]

I don't think you are being a nervous nellie. It would send up a red flag to me. FWIW I play that way in shallow water with my girls BUT I'm on my tummy which is a huge difference IMO. If he'd been on his tummy and the kids were pony riding on his back I probably wouldn't think a thing about it.

I did it on my back when the kids were little, so that I can use my hands to catch kids sliding off my stomach. If they're on my back, they just slide and fall off. So, if they're younger kids that would need to be caught before getting hurt, I can totally see doing it where you can see the kids and catch them if necessary.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I guess maybe I'd have to see it. It sounds pretty innocent. If my boys came home saying they'd done that I'd likely not have thought a lot about it. That said if in seeing it a red flag went off I'd listen to that!


I would have absolutely no problem with that AT ALL! He's in full public view, and the children are at his middle. There is absolutely no sexual anything with that kind of play. He has to do it that way, or his face would be in the water. Even if his face wouldn't be in the water, having the kids riding on his front is much less dangerous than their being on his back. He would be far better able to catch them if they started to tumble.

It's true that pedophiles are attracted to professions where they get to be in contact with children, so it's not crazy to keep an eye on any counselor of either gender (and on all your relatives, friends, teachers, clergy people, babysitters, neighbors, etc.), but there is nothing about this play that would raise any flags for me. A pedophile would be MUCH more careful in public.

:yeahthat: It doesn't raise a red flag but I wasn't there. I'd give the kid the benefit of the doubt. My life has not been influenced by sexual abuse so, maybe to my detriment, I am less nervous about things.

[gatorsmom]

A pedophile would be MUCH more careful in public.

I'm not saying this camp counselor was a pedophile but this is how the grooming starts. Innocent bumps of the groin area where moms and victims just sort of say "hmmm..." and then write it off as innocent play or accidental contact. This is exactly what Sandusky's victims described as how it started.

Im not saying we need to be paranoid but its important to be aware and vigilant.

[Melaine]

That would raise a red flag to me because I am paranoid. I wouldn't think that the counselor was a pedophile, but more that it was a little on the line IMO of what could appear to be inappropriate. I wouldn't want my kids playing like that with someone we don't know well.

[infomama]

I guess maybe I'd have to see it. It sounds pretty innocent.

:yeahthat:

[Liziz]

That's a hard one....I agree with the PP, it depends on positioning. I'm picturing that that could be done with the child sitting on the counselor's midriff (in which case I'm fine with it) or lower down, more on the groin/genitals area (in which case I'm not okay with it). It's a fine line. I guess it probably falls into one of those "it's probably just fine and a fun game, but it's also probably not a good idea, because you just never know". And I think it's so sad we have to think like that, too.

[randomkid]

Yes, this would bother me. I just don't think it's appropriate for a young male camp counselor to have children straddling him in the pool. Innocent or not, it's just not a good idea. DD attends a camp where they have pool time. I was there the other day making a payment and a little girl, maybe 5yo, walked up to a young male counselor and asked him to tie her bathing suit top. This would be the most innocent thing in the world to me. He hesitated and told her that she had to have a "girl counselor" do it for her. To me, this is a good policy and he was smart to comply with it. I can't imagine DD straddling any camp counselor, male or female, esp. in the pool in bathing suits.

[DietCokeLover]

Half my brain would be freaking out and half would be saying it's probably nothing. I probably would not like the scenario you described and would be watching very closely.

[TwinFoxes]

Not to be graphic, but I would imagine if a counselor was getting his jollies from this, he'd be visibly aroused while wearing a bathing suit. I'm assuming the counselor was a teen/early 20s? I just can't imagine it wouldn't be obviously visible if he was getting sexual pleasure.

That said, if you're uncomfortable OP, tell you kids not to play like that because you don't think it's safe.

[randomkid]

Not to be graphic, but I would imagine if a counselor was getting his jollies from this, he'd be visibly aroused while wearing a bathing suit. I'm assuming the counselor was a teen/early 20s? I just can't imagine it wouldn't be obviously visible if he was getting sexual pleasure.

That said, if you're uncomfortable OP, tell you kids not to play like that because you don't think it's safe.

I got the impression that the OP's kids were not in the camp, just at the pool and she made this observation of something going on in a camp setting. I think she felt it was innocent, but I still think it's inappropriate. I agree with you that it would likely be obvious if it was a sexually arousing activity for him. However, I see two reasons that this should not be happening and, unfortunately, they are signs of the time we live in - 1) The young male counselor could easily find himself accused of something he never did, at least not intentionally. A child could tell a parent what was going on and the parent could go berserk and accuse this kid of sexual misconduct. It could potentially ruin his life. 2) I would not want DD to think it was ok to straddle someone like that, innocent play or not. How is she supposed to know the difference between a counselor who is just playing and one who is grooming? Our children need to be taught that contact like that with anyone other than maybe their parents or siblings is not allowed or acceptable.

DSD1 is 22yo and has a boyfriend of 3 years. He's a great kid and is wonderful to DD. He plays with her when he is over and both he and DSD include her in things they are doing at times. They play in her room and play outside together - DD gives him hugs, he gives her piggy back rides, but I could NEVER imagine him playing with her like that in the pool (or even on dry land). I have never seen him do anything of that nature with DD. As a matter of fact, he seems to be very careful in his contact with her to make sure he isn't doing anything that might be seen as inappropriate. And, trust me, even though we know him and feel he is a good kid, I still would not allow him to be alone with my child. Whenever he is with DD either I'm there or DSD is there. Sadly, that's just a fact of life these days. Maybe I'm paranoid, but better that than allowing my child to become a victim. I do not make a big deal out of things to her. She has no idea that I watch them playing and that I would not be comfortable leaving her alone with him. She does know appropriate vs inappropriate touching and play, at least I hope she does. We can educate all day long, but we never know what judgement our children will use when left to their own devices.

[YouAreTheFocus]

I guess maybe I'd have to see it. It sounds pretty innocent. If my boys came home saying they'd done that I'd likely not have thought a lot about it. That said if in seeing it a red flag went off I'd listen to that!

:yeahthat: My initial thought was "that's great that the counselor is so hands on!" But if something felt off I would not ignore it.

[wellyes]

There is such an odd range of opinions on this topic. The other day we has a thread where some posters argued it was fine to have girls in men's locker rooms. Now we have multiple posters arguing that a camp counselor - surely background checked, acting in front of coworkers, whose job it is to play with and watch over kids - should not allow skin on skin contact with a girl child or even tie her bathing suit strings. Who knows anymore.

[queenmama]

There is such an odd range of opinions on this topic. The other day we has a thread where some posters argued it was fine to have girls in men's locker rooms. Now we have multiple posters arguing that a camp counselor - surely background checked, acting in front of coworkers, whose job it is to play with and watch over kids - should not allow skin on skin contact with a girl child or even tie her bathing suit strings. Who knows anymore.

Sure, but someone else brought up Sandusky. Clearly not all people who are vetted to work with kids are behaving on the up and up.

[TwinFoxes]

OP, am I mistaken or did you add the part about remembering to tell your sons in the future to not do this if they become counselors? It kind of changed the tone of your post if so.

[jgenie]

Thanks for weighing in everyone. The counselor wasn't doing anything other than playing. If I felt something else was going on I would have spoken up to someone in charge to stop it. They were definitely in his lap and it just seemed to close to the line and could easily be seen as crossing the line depending on the circumstances. I tend to be very cautious about things like this and it was outside my comfort zone.


OP, am I mistaken or did you add the part about remembering to tell your sons in the future to not do this if they become counselors? It kind of changed the tone of your post if so.

No, that part was there from the beginning because that was what entered my mind since I have two boys. It was innocent play that could lend itself to accusations that cannot be taken back regardless of the intention. In light of the google reminder in the other thread I edited to remove personal information I had originally included.