he left the baby home alone

[lmh2402]

This is a new low people. From a guy who has hit some pretty significant lows

Today is first day of DS' camp. He was really nervous about going.

H "took the day off," which means he will sit on conf calls all day, running back and forth to his laptop.

Anyway, H took him down to camp - five min from our house. I cleaned up kitchen and put DD up for a nap.

H came back and I had to run out to do a quick errand. I left him on a conference call with the monitor blasting so he couldn't possibly not hear her.

I came back from my errand and the second car was gone.

I started to panic thinking something happened at camp and they had to go get him. Maybe he freaked out and they called and said come right away. Etc, etc.

I come in the door to see if he left a note.

No note. Door unlocked.

(meanwhile, front of house is crawling with guys doing construction project for us)

I still hear the noise machine from the monitor.

NO, not possible, right?

Oh, no. It's possible.

There's DD sitting in her crib. playing with her lovies and babbling.

Three min later he walks in and says, "I f-d up." (he's still on a conf call by the way, in his ear piece)

I wanted to hope that maybe he rushed to camp for something and in his haste, left her sleeping and asked the contractor to keep an eye on the monitor.

But no. He just f-d up.

He "FORGOT" about her. He realized he needed money. So he drove to the ATM - at least 5 min drive in each direction.

Seriously. This just happened in my house.

I'm beyond floored.

[TwinFoxes]

Wow.

Honestly, I think you have to be careful he never takes her alone in the car. This is how those tragedies occur, a break in routine and the baby is forgotten in a hot car. Luckily she was in her crib, not her car seat.

[karstmama]

wow. what did he say after that? was he upset, was he sorry, was he like 'meh.'?

[lmh2402]

he was sheepish, but defensive, if that makes sense.

Typical of him. He knows he was wrong, so he's ready for me to be mad and he's ready to be mad at me for being mad at him.

good times

[Ceepa]

A horrible mistake. But it's not unthinkable that someone would make it in these circumstances.

Sorry you were put in such a scary and maddening situation.

[KDsMommy]

Wow, I'm so sorry that happened. I absolutely agree with TwinFoxes, he should not ever be allowed to take her alone in the car. Very, very scary.

XH used to think nothing of leaving DS alone...in the house, in the car (with the keys inside and running...unlocked), etc.

One of the MANY reasons he's my XH...

[Clarity]

Wow. Just wow. That's not a mistake, that's child endangerment.
Is he still going to therapy? This needs to be discussed there, I think. I'm sorry you're dealing with this on top of everything else.

[alirebco]

Wow. I am so glad nothing bad happened but seriously he got defensive? There is nothing about this situation that he shouldn't be completely sorry about.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

Wow. Just wow. That's not a mistake, that's child endangerment.
Is he still going to therapy? This needs to be discussed there, I think. I'm sorry you're dealing with this on top of everything else.
:yeahthat: i'm just shocked and saddened for you. and his attitude about it afterwards..WTH?

i don't know, given your history...the fact that he was STILL on a conf call and walks in all sheepishly and defensive and not "OMFG, i can't believe i did this, i am so so sorry"....sounds like he is taking you all (his family) for granted. if i had made some big mistakes to hurt my family i'd be putting everything a bit aside for a while (work, etc) to work on them as i would be worried about losing my family. from what you say, he doesn't seem to be realizing this and seems to take you for granted. i hope your therapist can help you guy s work this out.

[wellyes]

Yeah I think that warrants hanging up from the call. I'm sorry.

[Giantbear]

i am speechless at such reckless behavior on his part. I am becoming more and more convinced that their are some people who just can not be left alone with a child, they are too irresponsible and selfish to provide adequate supervision.

[MamaMolly]

Oh gosh I'm sorry. I'd be livid too.

[AnnieW625]

Wow, jease why didn't he just call you to go and get money. Good luck, and :hug:

[BDKmom]

I can only imagine how you must be feeling. Wow. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this.

[hillview]

Dh is SUPER forgetful. I could see him doing something like this (well not really but in this realm and well possibly). I don't know what to say. I would lose my shi*t. I am so sorry you deserve a break.

[OKKiddo]

Not to add to your worries but should he be driving while on conference calls? That sounds beyond distracting and combining that hazard with his obvious inability to (safely) care for your children while on a conference call why would he also put himself behind the wheel of a car (essentially a loaded weapon) and further gamble with his, your children's, and others safety? He can take his defensive self down to defensive driving lessons (and I dare him to do it while on a conference call)!

[Sweetum]

I am do sorry this happened and is honestly a constant fear that I would do it. It's horrible how work is these days for everyone and I honestly believe that it can happen to anyone. I know about your current status with your DH but I would urge you to go against your reaction and not be mad at him or at least not show it. He admitted he f-d up. Now let it go snd be happy that you'd child was safe. Did I mention how I hate modern work and work pressures? And next time, make the ground rules that he needs to stay in the room be off the phone and off laptop if he needs to watch DD and I have a feeling he will agree given the happening today. Iof course if you want to gave a next time of him watching at least in the near future.

[Fairy]

OMG. That's not a mistake. Sorry, it's not. It's grounds for ... well, it's grounds for alot of stuff going thru my head right now. ETA --> hillview said she would lose her sh*t, and that could not have been said better for what's going thru my mind.


Wow.

Honestly, I think you have to be careful he never takes her alone in the car. This is how those tragedies occur, a break in routine and the baby is forgotten in a hot car. Luckily she was in her crib, not her car seat.

This is the first thing I thought of. Please think about this very very seriously.

[georgiegirl]

I'm so sorry. I agree with the others to never let him take her anywhere in the car alone.

[mikala]

Eek, I agree with pp that I'd lose my $h1+. Horrible mistakes can happen but I'm speechless about his reaction afterwards.

My other reaction was to wonder why the heck he needed cash so badly when he's spending the day at home, especially on the middle of a conference call!? So odd. It isn't like the atm was about to close and he had to rush there.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

Eek, I agree with pp that I'd lose my $h1+. Horrible mistakes can happen but I'm speechless about his reaction afterwards.

My other reaction was to wonder why the heck he needed cash so badly when he's spending the day at home, especially on the middle of a conference call!? So odd.


:yeahthat: TBH, i was thinking that too. like PP said, why didn't he just text you that he needed money and have you pick it up on the way back from your errand.

[DualvansMommy]

:yeahthat: TBH, i was thinking that too. like PP said, why didn't he just text you that he needed money and have you pick it up on the way back from your errand.

:yeahthat: that's what i was wondering too....i know my DH would have texted me to pick up money since we pass our bank daily whenever we run errands, driving to/from work. im sorry it happened to you....huuugs

[Giantbear]

I'm so sorry. I agree with the others to never let him take her anywhere in the car alone.

:yeahthat:

[DietCokeLover]

I honestly don't know what I would do in your situation. That is inexcusable. I am so sorry, you are dealing with a lot.

[khalloc]

Is there any chance he meant to leave her at home and just thought "oh, I can run to the ATM quickly"?

[Giantbear]

he was sheepish, but defensive, if that makes sense.

..... so he's ready for me to be mad and he's ready to be mad at me for being mad at him.

good times
I have been there and it sucks. Their defense for what they did is to find a reason to turn the tables on you.

[HonoluluMom]

I'd totally lose my sh*t, like other PP posted. I'm sorry you're going through this.

[StantonHyde]

ok, if I did not know the backstory on your DH, I could honestly see doing this. In the middle of a call, kid is sleeping, distracted etc. I honestly could even see leaving a sleeping baby alone for 10-15 minutes--like walk the dog around the block. (I know, people will disagree with me)

What I cannot see is--1. He couldn't wait to go to the ATM????? 2. He did this drive etc while on a conference call???? 3. He forgets the baby and then is not appropriately sorry????

And the bottom line is: He does all of this WITH the backstory???--e.g. Dude--time to put your family FIRST. Given this PATTERN of behavior, I would never leave the kids alone with him. That is pathetic. Bring this up in therapy. He needs to be trying harder. And a bit "yeah that" to GB's comment about people being too selfish and irresponsible to care for children.

He really needs to show up for his family right now. I am very sorry--I would say that this does not bode well for the respect of your marriage.

[BunnyBee]

I'm so sorry. I would imagine this makes you feel even more alone in shouldering the childcare burden. :(

How are you doing? I mean, until today I guess?

I also wonder why the hell he needed cash in the middle of a conference call. WTF? It's totally frightening to think of the implications. What if he had her in the car? What if he decided he needed lunch? Or to run to the office?

[crl]

I am so sorry.

Catherine

[Fairy]

I just want to pipe in on the conference call. I have them all day long, and I've tried very hard to avoid them in the car. I'm 90% successful, but as a result, I have to do them in the middle of the night alot (other side of the globe). Now and then, I do have to take one in the car, and a fraction of those with DS in the car. Some ppl do have jobs that suck this way. Not defending him!!!!!!! NOT DEFENDING HIM!!!!!!! I don't know/recall the backstory, and I believe all of you that do, and I personally would be thinking marriage in deep doo doo on this. But just about the conference call, that's an added bad act, agreed, but sometimes it can't be avoided.

[Philly Mom]

I'm so sorry. I would imagine this makes you feel even more alone in shouldering the childcare burden. :(

How are you doing? I mean, until today I guess?

I also wonder why the hell he needed cash in the middle of a conference call. WTF? It's totally frightening to think of the implications. What if he had her in the car? What if he decided he needed lunch? Or to run to the office?

:yeahthat:

[MamaMolly]

I wonder if this is the first time he's done it or just the first time he got caught?

[scrooks]

I am so sorry op! You don't need this.


For some reason I would be questioning the bank story. It doesn't sit right with me. Who needs cash right in the middle of a conference call???

[boolady]

I wonder if this is the first time he's done it or just the first time he got caught?



For some reason I would be questioning the bank story. It doesn't sit right with me. Who needs cash right in the middle of a conference call???

Unfortunately, L, I agree with both. Something about needing to go to the bank at that moment to get cash is odd, to say the least. Who doesn't just go get cash when they're headed out wherever they're going? And if you were going out, why didn't he just ask you to get the money? Did he show you the cash he got at the ATM and/or his receipt?

And I as soon as I read your post, I immediately thought that he's only confessing to this, and to how long he says he was gone, because you caught him.

[Twoboos]

Unfortunately, L, I agree with both. Something about needing to go to the bank at that moment to get cash is odd, to say the least. Who doesn't just go get cash when they're headed out wherever they're going? And if you were going out, why didn't he just ask you to get the money? Did he show you the cash he got at the ATM and/or his receipt?

And I as soon as I read your post, I immediately thought that he's only confessing to this, and to how long he says he was gone, because you caught him.

I also agree, too. It's just too weird.

OP I am so, so sorry you're going through this! I would be completely freaking out!!

[anonomom]

There are no words. I am so sorry.

[YouAreTheFocus]

I agree with the others that it is pretty bizarre that he "had" to go get cash at that moment, while on a call? And yes ppl make mistakes, but forgetting your baby was home when your spouse had made a point of putting the monitor right in front of you? Is it possible that he thought she'd be ok, and just went? Not locking the door also seems strange. I'd be wondering why he was in such a rush.

I am sorry that you had this happen, and sad for your DD. The only bit of relief for me would be that she was happily sitting in her crib, not crying out when no one was there :(

[specialp]

I'm so sorry. That would terrify me.

[pinkmomagain]

So sorry, OP. I agree the sudden ATM thing seems weird.
Also, piping in that conference calls driving is something my DH does all the time. A lot of the time he is just listening and not talking. He takes conference calls everywhere, including funerals, believe it or not. I think it is the nature of business these days for many, unfortunately.

[okinawama]

OP, I'm so sorry. I can't even begin to imagine the emotions I'd be feeling in your shoes!

[OKKiddo]

I wonder if this is the first time he's done it or just the first time he got caught?

I wondered this after I dwelled on it more today. The easy way in which he knew he needed to say I effed up as he walked in the door was as if he knew to have that be the first thing out of his mouth--like he knew he'd left her there alone and didn't expect to get caught and not like he'd genuinely forgotten her (you start driving and realize you forgot your child and the panic that hits when you realize it I can't imagine finishing an errand and then coming home somewhat calm).

[egoldber]

I know there is a LOT of back story here. But my DH does conference calls while driving all the time. Many times, like a PP said, he just has to listen and not actively participate. He has done conference calls while on 50+ mile bike rides! He does conference calls everywhere. In line at the DMV, the grocery store, etc.

And when younger DD was a baby, we all went out together. I got older DD out of the car, expected him to get younger DD (who was sleeping) and he forgot her. I was right there, but if I hadn't been, he totally would have forgotten her in the car.

And I will say that for a long time after I went back to work, on the days DH was gone, I left myself a note on the coffee maker not to forget the kids! I was so used to being up and out of the house before anyone else was up, that I almost left for work one day when DH was away totally forgetting about the kids.

[lmh2402]

so, yes, he definitely did go get cash. he came in with the cash and receipt in hand - it's a drive through so he just had it sitting on the seat next to him after he got it.

i'm not suspicious - which is unusual for me - of what he was doing.

but i'm livid. pissed. shocked. sick of it.

this is him. in a nutshell. a thought pops into his head, and OH! he just loses focus and blindly follows the though.

he's the guy that walks into the kitchen, takes out a glass and leaves the cabinet door open.

goes to bed at night and leaves all the lights and the TV on.

leaves the sink running in the bathroom after he washes his hands and then aimlessly wanders out.

has left the refrigerator open more times than i can count b/c he got something out, walked out of the room, and "forgot" to shut it.

he has lost the car key literally in the span between parking the car in front of the house (this was when we still lived in the city and "in front of the house" meant getting a spot anywhere on our block), and getting back into the apartment. literally he did this twice. how the f does someone lose a key between getting out of the car and walking into your house? TWICE.

he's left our dog outside three times. walked outside with him and then came back in without him. once this happened when i was out and i came home to find the dog huddling on the top of the back steps against the door waiting for anyone to let him in.

H lives in his own world. he functions doing what he wants, when he wants. he has ZERO trouble remembering anything and everything related to stuff with his friends or anything to do with his ridiculous fantasy sports crap. hell, he leads the charge on these things. ring leader, go-getter extraordinaire.

but when it comes to life here, his head is in the clouds. or, up his a** more specifically.

i'm tired of feeling like i have oversized, unwanted child on my hands. i have my kids. i love my kids. would kill and die for my kids. for this. i don't need this.

anyway, thanks for the support. he's a jacka**

ETA: the conf call thing is a battle i just can't even fight anymore. i just have nothing left for it. vacation is a joke. it's a foreign concept here. he's never really going to be on vacation. ever.

[Katigre]

Has he been evaluated and+ or medicated for adhd?

Sent from my Android phone using Swype

[JBaxter]

Per my DH.... WOW oh wow

[Melaine]

I'm so so sorry. I can't imagine how upset and angry you are feeling. I agree with Katigre....ADD or ADHD possibility? The faucet, fridge, dog and keys? I will say it reminds me to a small extent of my brother who is ADD and mildly autistic. He is SO freakin' smart and when he is passionate about something, he would never let a detail slip his attention but if he is distracted or NOT interested then his focus is spotty at best. And he has definitely lost keys between house and car and similar things.

I am just so sorry. Wish we could help lighten your load right now.

[lmh2402]

Has he been evaluated and+ or medicated for adhd?


he has his first ever appt with a psychiatrist later this week. he's only going b/c DS' psychiatrist took history and then said she felt it was "urgent" that we do "housekeeping" with our own mental health - me b/c i know i'm flat-out depressed, anxious, OCD, miserable, etc.

but i was shocked when she said he needed to be seen too. i mean, i've long thought he was a narcissistic prig, but i guess i had been assuming that was just my own sort of self-directed bent. know what i mean?

but she said she thinks something sounds not quite right and said i should do some reading about bipolar personalities.

thing is, he has never had a depressed day in his life. i mean, if someone can exist in a permanent manic state, than sure...maybe. she said there are many different manifestations and that she can't and won't say anything more definitive than that.

so, he's going. but he's certain it's all a joke and i'm sure will charm the guy's pants off and come right back home.

unless he manages to lose the key in the parking lot.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Only good thing in the post is that dd was playing happily in her crib. I know you've had a rough go of it with her in the past so that part made me feel like there is something going right.

((((hugs))))

[hillview]

Honestly my DH is a lot like you describe. He likely has un-dx ADHD. I am so so sorry.

[boltfam]

I'm glad your H is going to the appt. with the psychiatrist and :hug: to you. I hope DH can get some help and lighten your load a little.

[pinkmomagain]

Glad he's going to the psychiatrist and hopefully it's a good one. ADD shouted out at me too in your description...based on what your ds's therapist suspects, maybe there are some comorbid issues going on. Hoping you get some answers/resolution soon!

[oneplustwo]

Oh my word, to everything you're going through. HUGS.

After your last post, I'm also wondering about ADD/ADHD ~ in many ways, he sounds like he leaped from a textbook case on adults with ADD/ADHD, who are high functioning when it counts for them (usually work) and are that "extra child" in everything else with the spouse. And the comments from your DS's psychiatrist make me wonder what else is going on with him.

Your last sentence about if he lost his keys again made me spit on the monitor! :)

[BunnyBee]

Will you see the psychiatrist he sees also? Some of that ticks boxes for ADHD, but generally the behaviors should carry over somewhat across environments. Might be something in Cluster B. Hopefully the doctor will get input from you and the child psychiatrist too.

[petesgirl]

Honestly my DH is a lot like you describe. He likely has un-dx ADHD. I am so so sorry.

I see some similarities with my DH as well (adhd runs in his family, but his dr doesn't think he has it). He has a difficult time remembering where he left things like keys and forgets lights as well. A few days ago he even poured himself a bowl of cereal to eat before bed and then went to bed without touching it. It is definitely very frustrating to live with. Hope he can get some resolution.

[Giantbear]

I see some similarities with my DH as well (adhd runs in his family, but his dr doesn't think he has it). He has a difficult time remembering where he left things like keys and forgets lights as well. A few days ago he even poured himself a bowl of cereal to eat before bed and then went to bed without touching it. It is definitely very frustrating to live with. Hope he can get some resolution.

add my wife to the list, along with her other issues. do we get jackets??

[niccig]

Oh no! I can kinda believe he did it. He's never had to take care of the kids as you're the primary care-giver as he's always in work mode. He's never had to think about what's going on with the kids as you do that, so yes, he wanted to go to the ATM so he just left. I would have flipped out though, at forgetting he was responsible for her and for his cavalier attitude about it. I *hate* the defensive arguing back when you know you've screwed up. Just admit it then rather than try to justify/rationalize. :hug:

[ett]

I'm so sorry. I would be livid too. I hope you get some answers after he sees the psychiatrist.

[mom2binsd]

I'm so sorry you came home to that and he didn't take responsibility for it. I truly hope you are both able to get the necessary help that will allow you to rebuild your marriage. You have every right to be livid!

Reading your post and how your H put so much effort into work and fantasy football I thought you were talking about my XH....I told him if he had put half the effort into our marriage and family as he did into his work and choosing his fantasy football team we might have still been married (of course he also needs to be treated for something similar to what you are dealing with, ADHD/manic type behavior/easily addicted to things like lottery ticket buying/obsessing about using self tanner/using smokeless tabacco/spending money we did not have/and infidelity in the end....and blaming me for all of it. The counselor we saw after the affair and during our divorce (she helped us tell the children) identified lots of narcisstic tendencies and was pretty amazed I had stuck around as long as I did. Please don't make the mistake I made, if you need to, don't stay and allow yourself to become so broken down by someone else. I know you have endured a lot already, and I wish you nothing but happiness, I applaud you for doing all that you have.

Please keep yourself well, make sure you are taking care of your needs (taking care of the children is also important but they need a mama who is also emotionally and physically healthy!:hug:

[Tondi G]

I'm sorry. I hope that you will be able to give a bit of an evaluation of your DH and his behavior to the psychiatrist as well.... so he can't just waltz in and charm the doc into thinking there is nothing wrong. (((HUGS)))

[arivecchi]

My Dh is the same in many ways. Forgets everything. Loses everything. Yet has a laser focus on things that are important to him like work and yes- stupid fantasy football! Lucky for me, the kids make that high priority list. I would be curious as to why your kids don't rank higher for him. I am so sorry. I would have beyond flipped out! I would think long and hard on this one. It's one thing if his forgetfulness affects you and him, quite another if it affects the kids.

[TwinFoxes]

My Dh is the same in many ways. Forgets everything. Loses everything. Yet has a laser focus on things that are important to him like work and yes- stupid fantasy football! Lucky for me, the kids make that high priority list. I would be curious as to why your kids don't rank higher for him. I am so sorry. I would have beyond flipped out! I would think long and hard on this one. It's one thing if his forgetfulness affects you and him, quite another if it affects the kids.

This is a very good point. When I read that OP's DH can lose the keys in between the car and the front door, well that's me! I have misplaced movie tickets between the box office and the ticket taker, paid for purchases and left them behind, and left money on top of the ATM (the guy behind me stopped me). But my forgetfulness has never put DDs at risk.

[OKKiddo]

I'm sorry, but I think that would be one appt. of his I would support with my attendance. I would look at it the same as if a Dr. told us it was urgent to get to a specialist for a heart related issue. Maybe your DH's Dr. will want a thorough history from more than one person/perspective?

[lyt202]

I'm sorry so this happened, OP. I would be furious and would make sure he was never alone with the kids.

[AnnieW625]

OP, thanks for your updates and I am glad that your DH is seeing someone and I hope you both get positive results that are able to help your family.


My Dh is the same in many ways. Forgets everything. Loses everything. Yet has a laser focus on things that are important to him like work and yes- stupid fantasy football! Lucky for me, the kids make that high priority list. I would be curious as to why your kids don't rank higher for him. I am so sorry. I would have beyond flipped out! I would think long and hard on this one. It's one thing if his forgetfulness affects you and him, quite another if it affects the kids.

Add me to the list of "Forgetfull Jones" (Forgetfull Jones was a Sesame Street character in the 70s/80s) out there and it has been my nick name from my mom since I was a kid. I was always forgetting something physical, nothing mental like forgetting to complete homework, but physical things except homework, which I always remembered to bring to school. It is a rare occaision now even as an adult when I don't have to dart back into the house to get something each morning (today was a good morning) and I have only ever lost one cell phone that was 7 yrs. old at the time. I misplace lots of things, but I end up finding them, even if it means going through the trash. I would however never forget the kids, but I totally get what Beth was talking about in her post, it could easily happen. I once forgot to completely strap in 5 day old DD1 into her car seat and it turns out that at the time she was all of 5lbs., 8 oz. . I remember feeling horrible about it, but at the same time completely grateful that nothing happened in our 10 minute car ride to the peds. office.

As an aside I :heartbeat: fantasy football as well (I co shared first place in my league last year!)

[westwoodmom04]

On the lighter side, my dh, which is also forgetful about everything non-work related, once reboarded, instead of switching flights when traveling solo. He wound up in the right country (traveling internationally) but wrong city. He eventually got to the right place (without further charge because it was half the airline's fault for not checking his boarding pass) but had to spend an extra six hours in the airport. Is it wrong that I found this extremely funny? He's since added travel to something he focuses on, although he recently traveled to the southern hemisphere and forgot it was winter there.

L, I hope your dh has improved his behavior generally and this was a somewhat isolated incident in terms of his behavior with the kids.

[megs4413]

I wanted to respond to this yesterday, but the internet ate it.

It amazes me sometimes the way your posts remind me of the life I was living a few years ago. workaholic, selfish (which is an understatement) DH and high needs little ones and then a betrayal on top of it. I feel sometimes like I'm watching my own history repeated. I know my situation isn't/wasn't the same as yours and I know I only know the tiniest, teeniest portion of what you're really going through, but I just feel for you so much. I feel like I have BEEN there.

When DS was a baby (so DD was 2ish), my DH started a new job that was a BIG promotion from his previous one. You know how a man like that can get when his ego is puffing up like that and my DH just HAD to have a new suit for this job. He dragged me and the kids to the mall one weekend so we could shop exclusively for him. DS was quite little and I think I had to change a diaper or feed or pump or something (he was in the moby being worn at the time, so less than 4mos since i didn't even bother to bring a stroller) and I told my DH to keep DD while I dealt with DS' needs. He was in a suit store. When i returned to the store my 2 year old came running up to me, happy to see me. I expected to see my DH come running up behind her panicked because she bolted towards the door, but lo and behold, he's nowhere to be found. That's right. My DH left our 2yo loose in the store while he went into the back to get fitted for a suit. like measurements, chalk, the whole 9.

in retrospect, I should have left him that day. It took many more months before it was too much.

my dh did have depression, but i don't think that had much to do with his behavior that day. he's just an unusually selfish person. I'm not sure there's a diagnosis for that. His mother is even worse than he is, so I imagine it's just a result of his upbringing. He is super forgetful when it comes to ANYTHING not related to work. He doesn't lose keys on the way in the house, but he does lose them a lot. I don't think there's any way he has ADD. The way he can focus at work...it's just that he doesn't care about other things. it's like tunnel vision.

We've been working on things for years and it is WAY better. People really can grow, but he will always be naturally selfish and I have to make my peace with it. I also wish that I hadn't put up with so much over the years so we'd have gotten the help we needed sooner. My kids deserved better and his relationship with them is the one most damaged at this point. HUGE hugs.

[pastrygirl]

Whoa, that's insane. I can't even imagine. I hope you (he?) get somewhere with the psych appointment. It's good that he's going... hopefully he really WILL go.

[crayonblue]

On the lighter side, my dh, which is also forgetful about everything non-work related, once reboarded, instead of switching flights when traveling solo. He wound up in the right country (traveling internationally) but wrong city. He eventually got to the right place (without further charge because it was half the airline's fault for not checking his boarding pass) but had to spend an extra six hours in the airport. Is it wrong that I found this extremely funny? He's since added travel to something he focuses on, although he recently traveled to the southern hemisphere and forgot it was winter there.

L, I hope your dh has improved his behavior generally and this was a somewhat isolated incident in terms of his behavior with the kids.

This made me laugh out loud! Totally, totally something my DH would do! He has been traveling off and on for 14 years and still regularly forgets socks and underwear. So, he buys more wherever he is working. Which means he has a TON in his sock/underwear drawer. As far as I know he has never ended up in the wrong city when flying but I wouldn't be surprised!

[Still-in-Shock]

For many men, work comes first. DH takes some calls from work at the weirdest times, and sometimes it is because the guy on the other end just wants to talk. That burns me up. I have talked to him about priorities, but it sometimes needs repeating. When your H said that he forgot the baby, this is what I thought of.

I'm glad your little one is safe. :hug: You obviously have some big decisions ahead of you. We are here if you need us.

[lmh2402]

I wanted to respond to this yesterday, but the internet ate it.

It amazes me sometimes the way your posts remind me of the life I was living a few years ago. workaholic, selfish (which is an understatement) DH and high needs little ones and then a betrayal on top of it. I feel sometimes like I'm watching my own history repeated. I know my situation isn't/wasn't the same as yours and I know I only know the tiniest, teeniest portion of what you're really going through, but I just feel for you so much. I feel like I have BEEN there.

When DS was a baby (so DD was 2ish), my DH started a new job that was a BIG promotion from his previous one. You know how a man like that can get when his ego is puffing up like that and my DH just HAD to have a new suit for this job. He dragged me and the kids to the mall one weekend so we could shop exclusively for him. DS was quite little and I think I had to change a diaper or feed or pump or something (he was in the moby being worn at the time, so less than 4mos since i didn't even bother to bring a stroller) and I told my DH to keep DD while I dealt with DS' needs. He was in a suit store. When i returned to the store my 2 year old came running up to me, happy to see me. I expected to see my DH come running up behind her panicked because she bolted towards the door, but lo and behold, he's nowhere to be found. That's right. My DH left our 2yo loose in the store while he went into the back to get fitted for a suit. like measurements, chalk, the whole 9.

in retrospect, I should have left him that day. It took many more months before it was too much.

my dh did have depression, but i don't think that had much to do with his behavior that day. he's just an unusually selfish person. I'm not sure there's a diagnosis for that. His mother is even worse than he is, so I imagine it's just a result of his upbringing. He is super forgetful when it comes to ANYTHING not related to work. He doesn't lose keys on the way in the house, but he does lose them a lot. I don't think there's any way he has ADD. The way he can focus at work...it's just that he doesn't care about other things. it's like tunnel vision.

We've been working on things for years and it is WAY better. People really can grow, but he will always be naturally selfish and I have to make my peace with it. I also wish that I hadn't put up with so much over the years so we'd have gotten the help we needed sooner. My kids deserved better and his relationship with them is the one most damaged at this point. HUGE hugs.

megs, it is uncanny how much you nail things in many of the posts i've written re: my husband

so yes, he went to the psychiatrist yesterday. i had no childcare, so could not go. but i wrote a letter, which i shared with H first, so he could see what i said. i explained that i wanted to outline my concerns, b/c i was pretty sure H would not be able to articulate why he was there to see the doc in the first place - according to H, he was just going to basically check the box of doing what he was told to do by DS' psychiatrist. he (H) was firmly confident in his absolutely sound mental health.

he was not happy with my letter, which i tried to keep to straight facts - not being too emotional. he started trying to fight with me about each of the points, but i just ignored him.

he took the letter and left.

an hour after the appt was scheduled, he called and said, "well, sorry to disappoint you, but i gave the guy your letter and we talked and he agrees - there's nothing wrong with me that can be dx. no pill to make me something else, unfortunately for you."

i was honestly hoping maybe he would have a dx b/c it would almost have been like a "not guilty by reason of insanity" for all the stuff he's done.

but instead, i guess i just have a disgustingly selfish, self-centered prig of a husband.

oh well.

(i'm still not 100% convinced though - i swear he's a text book narcissist and his family history points strongly in this direction)

[Melaine]

megs, it is uncanny how much you nail things in many of the posts i've written re: my husband

so yes, he went to the psychiatrist yesterday. i had no childcare, so could not go. but i wrote a letter, which i shared with H first, so he could see what i said. i explained that i wanted to outline my concerns, b/c i was pretty sure H would not be able to articulate why he was there to see the doc in the first place - according to H, he was just going to basically check the box of doing what he was told to do by DS' psychiatrist. he (H) was firmly confident in his absolutely sound mental health.

he was not happy with my letter, which i tried to keep to straight facts - not being too emotional. he started trying to fight with me about each of the points, but i just ignored him.

he took the letter and left.

an hour after the appt was scheduled, he called and said, "well, sorry to disappoint you, but i gave the guy your letter and we talked and he agrees - there's nothing wrong with me that can be dx. no pill to make me something else, unfortunately for you."

i was honestly hoping maybe he would have a dx b/c it would almost have been like a "not guilty by reason of insanity" for all the stuff he's done.

but instead, i guess i just have a disgustingly selfish, self-centered prig of a husband.

oh well.

(i'm still not 100% convinced though - i swear he's a text book narcissist and his family history points strongly in this direction)

I would definitely call the therapist and ask for specifics. I don't think I would trust him to be completely honest about the bottom line. The Dr. may have said something to the effect of, "it's too early for a diagnosis" or "there isn't a magic pill" but that doesn't mean he doesn't have serious issues that need to be explored further. I'm sorry.

[karstmama]

well, that's what *he* said the counselor said. it may or may not have any resemblance to what was actually said by him/her. many people hear what they want to, and a real narcissist is definitely one of those types.

[vludmilla]

Well, I don't think one can assume that the psychiatrist believes he is the picture of mental health. Just because he said there was "nothing to be dx'd and no pill to treat it" doesn't preclude the existence of a personality d/o like narcissism. The trouble is that even if the psychiatrist did think he was a narcissist, there is no pharmacologic treatment for it. Sorry you're in such a difficult situation.

[DietCokeLover]

He is right, there likely is no pill. However, I am going to bet there is a diagnosis of narcissism. It wouldn't be unusual for a therapist not to share that on a first meeting.

I also like other pps would not trust your H's report. I would insist that he sign a release with the therapist giving you permission to speak with him regarding your H's appointments.

[lmh2402]

He is right, there likely is no pill. However, I am going to bet there is a diagnosis of narcissism. It wouldn't be unusual for a therapist not to share that on a first meeting.

I also like other pps would not trust your H's report. I would insist that he sign a release with the therapist giving you permission to speak with him regarding your H's appointments.

he said the doctor said he never needed to see him again, and said that the worst part for H was that he "couldn't even submit for insurance coverage for this b/c there was nothing to report"

i don't even understand what that means

he did sign a release for to talk to the doctor - in fact, when he came in yesterday and said something like, "see, i told you" and i said, "i know what i know." he picked up the phone dialed the guy on speaker and left a vmail for him saying, "this XX, i just saw you and as you and i discussed, my wife doesn't believe that there is nothing diagnosable about me. please give me a call back so you can speak directly with her."

i feel like i've been punched in the gut for some reason.

it just made everything that happened before (not even talking about with the baby)...it made it feel like...nothing wrong with him means he was justified somehow, or it was ok, or it was my fault, or...i'm not explaining it right. but it made it feel like he was vindicated and i was just left holding the bag

not sure if that makes sense, but yesterday was a really, really bad day for me mentally b/c of this.

i really do not know what is going to happen. i just don't know what to do. i want to make it better, i want to think it can get fixed, but i need him to own it so fully in order for me to be able to move in that direction. :crying:

[psimpson3-5]

megs, it is uncanny how much you nail things in many of the posts i've written re: my husband

so yes, he went to the psychiatrist yesterday. i had no childcare, so could not go. but i wrote a letter, which i shared with H first, so he could see what i said. i explained that i wanted to outline my concerns, b/c i was pretty sure H would not be able to articulate why he was there to see the doc in the first place - according to H, he was just going to basically check the box of doing what he was told to do by DS' psychiatrist. he (H) was firmly confident in his absolutely sound mental health.

he was not happy with my letter, which i tried to keep to straight facts - not being too emotional. he started trying to fight with me about each of the points, but i just ignored him.

he took the letter and left.

an hour after the appt was scheduled, he called and said, "well, sorry to disappoint you, but i gave the guy your letter and we talked and he agrees - there's nothing wrong with me that can be dx. no pill to make me something else, unfortunately for you."

i was honestly hoping maybe he would have a dx b/c it would almost have been like a "not guilty by reason of insanity" for all the stuff he's done.

but instead, i guess i just have a disgustingly selfish, self-centered prig of a husband.

oh well.

(i'm still not 100% convinced though - i swear he's a text book narcissist and his family history points strongly in this direction)

IMO there's many differences between a psychiatrist and a psychologist/therapist/LCSW. I feel that psychiatrists are more about dx rather than counseling. I feel strongly that you both would benefit from therapy. DH and I went with DS to a counselor (LCSW). Granted, my DS is much younger than yours so he didn't really hear/understand what was going on. I am certain, however, you can find a therapist that would allow you to bring your DS and might even have an area he can play in for 45-60 mins supervised. Your DD can stay with you during the session.

[psimpson3-5]

he said the doctor said he never needed to see him again, and said that the worst part for H was that he "couldn't even submit for insurance coverage for this b/c there was nothing to report"

i don't even understand what that means

he did sign a release for to talk to the doctor - in fact, when he came in yesterday and said something like, "see, i told you" and i said, "i know what i know." he picked up the phone dialed the guy on speaker and left a vmail for him saying, "this XX, i just saw you and as you and i discussed, my wife doesn't believe that there is nothing diagnosable about me. please give me a call back so you can speak directly with her."

i feel like i've been punched in the gut for some reason.

it just made everything that happened before (not even talking about with the baby)...it made it feel like...nothing wrong with him means he was justified somehow, or it was ok, or it was my fault, or...i'm not explaining it right. but it made it feel like he was vindicated and i was just left holding the bag

not sure if that makes sense, but yesterday was a really, really bad day for me mentally b/c of this.

i really do not know what is going to happen. i just don't know what to do. i want to make it better, i want to think it can get fixed, but i need him to own it so fully in order for me to be able to move in that direction. :crying:


I am so sorry you're going through this. :hug: Ok, we get his point, there's no dx. Big deal! He's still got issues. He needs to accept this and try to work things out.

[BDKmom]

I am so sorry you are going through this. It seems it is going from bad to worse. Before I read the part about him calling the doc in front of you, I was going to guess that he didn't even go. After all this, my response to him would have had to be "oh, well that means you are just a big fat a$$h0!e all on your own!"

I hope that you can at least find some clarity and peace about how to proceed in this relationship. And I hope that you, at least, have a really good therapist to help you.

[lmh2402]

IMO there's many differences between a psychiatrist and a psychologist/therapist/LCSW. I feel that psychiatrists are more about dx rather than counseling. I feel strongly that you both would benefit from therapy. DH and I went with DS to a counselor (LCSW). Granted, my DS is much younger than yours so he didn't really hear/understand what was going on. I am certain, however, you can find a therapist that would allow you to bring your DS and might even have an area he can play in for 45-60 mins supervised. Your DD can stay with you during the session.

thanks

we're in therapy. the amount of money we're spending on mental health is shocking.

on a weekly basis:
DS has a psychiatrist and we (me and H and something DS) see/speak with a behavioral psychologist for him (DS)

then DH has his own psychologist, since March/April

I see a psychologist

we see a social worker jointly for marriage counseling

and i see a psychiatrist (this is "only" every few weeks)

so there's a silver lining to H's "perfect mental health" - cost savings. whoo hoo!

[lmh2402]

I am so sorry you are going through this. It seems it is going from bad to worse. Before I read the part about him calling the doc in front of you, I was going to guess that he didn't even go. After all this, my response to him would have had to be "oh, well that means you are just a big fat a$$h0!e all on your own!"

I hope that you can at least find some clarity and peace about how to proceed in this relationship. And I hope that you, at least, have a really good therapist to help you.

yeah, that's pretty much what i did say (scream-hiss :bag ) at him last night.

[Philly Mom]

This may be out of line, especially since this is a BP, but I think you may want to consider how you are going to economically protect yourself and your kids. Your H's behavior is so out of line with someone who wants to make his family the priority or even a priority. There is nothing you did to create an a&&h0!e. He did that all on his own and clearly has been trying to perfect it over time. You have been nothing but an incredibly supportive wife and an all star mother. You deserve happiness, love and support.

[mom2binsd]

Once again he is not taking any responsibility for his actions. If the psychiatrist knew all the things that he he done over the last year to sabotage your marriage he might think twice. I am so sorry but, I have lived through someone acting very similar to your H, that kind of person manages to destroy everyone around them. His glib attitude would send me packing.....I'm so sorry to hear all of this. Hugs.

[Fairy]

So, I'm just gonna say it. Do you want to stay with him? If so, ask yourself why. Ask yourself if these things you're trying to fix are really, truly fixable. Ask yourself if this man is the kind of man you want to be your partner for the rest of your life. Ask yourself how he makes you feel. Does he make you feel loved? Cherished? Does he make you feel like a good mother? Does he make you feel like you're beautiful to him? Does he nurture you and your relationship? Does he give you confidence that he can be a good father? Are you giving more to this marriage and to this family than he not only is but ever will? If you can't answer a great many of these questions in the positive, then it might be best for you to leave this marriage. Sometimes upheaval and great change are the more healthy option in the long run, even if they're so much terribly harder in the short run. You cannot be the mother to your children that you need to be -- if you're miserable all the time.

[Mopey]

I'm so sorry to read all this L, and so sad. And like you, at this point we all shouldn't really be surprised, but I still am. I'm so sorry. :hug:

Now for my tough momma advice: please start gathering every shred of evidence you can for a lawyer - EVERYTHING. I feel I'm starting to hear what you know in your heart of hearts and I'm thinking it's time to start these positive, pro-active measures to protect & care for your wonderful kids. And yourself. I am sending you every amazing vibe there is that you can begin to see your way through more clearly.

What's that saying? "When you're going through Hell, keep going."

[Giantbear]

what a dick!!!


Sorry, that is all i got. Sounds very similar to my wife in many ways

[BabyBearsMom]

I'm late to this thread, but I'm just going to say something that may get me flamed. If it were me, I would leave him. It seems very clear to me based on what he is saying about not having anything wrong with him, that he has no inclination to change. Maybe he doesn't have mental illness, but from what I read in your posts, he doesn't seem to be a very nice person either (that may be the euphamism of the century). And from what I have read in your posts over the years, his presence (when he is even there) does not seem to have a positive impact on your children. It also seems from your post that the way he treats you is not good for your mental health, and it can't be good for your children to see someone treat their mother like that. If my DH was making me miserable, cheating on me, treating me awfully and endangering my children, I would leave. I know the advice on this board is to take your time, get your finances together, get your divorce stuff together, but sometimes the emotional and mental toll on you and your children can't be put off until a time when things are ready. I'm sorry you are going through this.

[Multimama]

I couldn't read this thread and not post to say I'm sorry for what you're going through. It sounds impossible hard and you deserve so much better.

[wellyes]

Your update is shocking and sad. He is being outright cruel. At this point I wouldn't care a whit about his mental health. Please protect yourself.

[SnuggleBuggles]

You're really having such a rough go of things. I'm really sorry.

[BunnyBee]

Just my 2c from a random internet person, but this is something *I* would push in marriage counseling. If he wants you to stay and he wants his marriage to survive, he needs to be honest to you and the professionals who are trying to help him. He's driving around in a broken car. You're the passenger, and your kids are in the backseat. His actions and response come across online as extremely narcissistic. It is true that there's no medication for narcissism. Therapy rarely works. You need to know what is wrong with the car you and your children are in. Narcissists feed off people with other types of mental health issues. If he is one, and you want to stay with him, you need to figure out how best to protect yourself and your children.

I'm sorry. It is extremely evident how much you love LOVE LOVE your children. I hope you and they find a secure, happy place.

[flashy09]

I am not surprised he wasn't diagnosed with anything. He sounds very smart and manipulative and like he knows how to "play the game" in front of a Dr. Like maybe he even enjoyed presenting himself as Mr. Perfect and using your letter to make you seem like the nutcase. Does he have much remorse for all the things he has done to you in the past? Real remorse, not just sorry that he got caught or yelled at? He almost seems like he has sociopathic tendencies. Does this article (10 ways to spot a sociopath) sound like him?

I hope I haven't offended you! Totally not saying he is one. Just some things are similar.

http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_sociopaths_cults_influence.html

[mctlaw]

Just wanted to echo my support and many hugs for you. He doesn't seem contrite at all given everything he has done. You deserve so much better.

[queenmama]

Wow. I am gobsmacked by his attitude.

I agree with PP that you need to reevaluate whether this battle is worth fighting. You're spending a lot of time and money for therapy that seems to be useless for your H. Do you want to be married to each other?

On the other hand, I would be terrified of divorcing because he obviously can't be trusted alone with the kids...

I'm so sorry you are going through this.

Lara

[specialp]

Is their any progress at all with marriage counseling?

I’m so sorry. I seem to recall you writing a while ago that you didn’t feel like you could talk to your family members or friends about everything that is going on. Have you been able to open that door any to let others know you are suffering? You need support and encouragement right now and lots of people to constantly remind you that you aren’t alone.

[janine]

Wow. This is inexcusable to me, you don't wander off and leave the baby under any circumstance, I don't care whether it's conference call or a fire. It was pure luck something worse didn't happen. I would not be able to leave young children with DH again after this, and like you said, it's a new low of many lows, how much can a person take and how much of this is responsible for your own anxiety, depression etc? You have to parent him as well, and there is just no room for that with kids and everything else.
Ok he went to therapy but that's an easy out from an argument ("I'm going")...the true test was how he returned from the visit and if there's any remote change to his patterns. You are very articulate in describing everything, calm and clear - it seems to me you have a handle on things so that's not the issue (ie you are not in denial). The issue is what do you need to do to get peace from this constant chaos. Life is choices too, no one can take that away from you. That piece you can control.

I am very sorry.

[lmh2402]

thanks, guys. it's very complicated (isn't it always?)

in general, yes he is extremely remorseful - he says it all the time, he truly has tried changed his patterns with work - tries to be home more and zero (i mean really truly zero) nights til 1am since D-day in march...of course, this is good AND pisses me off b/c it shows me that he could have been doing this for the year + that he was claiming he had to work every single night until midnight or 1, but really he was out with friends, or his girlfriend

anyway, he's clearly trying

BUT, any discussion of "why" - such as being pushed to go to the psychiatrist, brings immediately and impenetrable defense.

he can bring forth the "so sorry" but it has to really be on his own timeline, KWIM? he gets extremely defensive still if i call him on something...like you know, leaving our 12 month old home alone. or bringing up that i'm still devastated by his lack of fidelity. it's like he gets caught off guard and his immediate reaction is anger at me

he really, really, REALLY does not like seeing a therapist or having anyone ever think that anything might be remotely "off."

he's seeing this psychologist now b/c he knows it's not an option if he wants to remain married to me. same with the marriage counselor. but the other night on the way there, he actually said to me, "well, things are so much better that i'm sure we won't have to go much longer." :47:

i said, "i think you're actually, literally insane. like really crazy. if you believe that, you must be."

he was quite miffed, to say the least.

he has developed these little buzz-phrases that he will throw out like, "well, now i know what i need to do to fix what's wrong with myself. so i'll just fix it and then it will be fine."

what does that even mean? he just says it like, he really believe is. he thinks he can just say, "oh, i've fixed it. and now let's move on."

well, what is IT?! what, exactly, have you fixed?

and/but, yes, the long and short is he is extremely vocal about wanting to make things work. and wanting to be here with us. about never wanting to do anything to hurt me again, yada, yada. but he still doesn't quite seem to own like i need him to. and he does not want to hear anything at all about there being any sort of underlying mental issue or prodding for why things have happened.

however, i'm not in a place where i can leave right now. for many reasons, the most significant of which is my son. he idolizes and adores H. it would shatter his world if we were to separate and given all that we're navigating with him already, there is no way either of us would do that to him. we actually are quite fine in front of the kids - we can laugh, joke, hug together, etc, etc. the time together is so limited anyway - only on weekends and for about 20 min each morning.

ugh. it's hard.

sorry this is a book. but thank you for all the validation and support.

[westwoodmom04]

I glad to hear he's at least trying, but its not clear how much you feel his efforts are making things better between the two of you. Don't sell the importance of your own happiness short, for both you and your kids. Maybe leaving now is not an option but maybe it is the time to start to think of a plan (or a backup plan) of how to leave in the future. When/if you are ready, your son's therapist might be able to assist you.

I have more than a few friends whose marriages went south after their kids arrived, who divorced and now are really happily remarried. I'd hate to see you deprive yourself of that opportunity.

[cuca_]

he said the doctor said he never needed to see him again, and said that the worst part for H was that he "couldn't even submit for insurance coverage for this b/c there was nothing to report"

i don't even understand what that means

he did sign a release for to talk to the doctor - in fact, when he came in yesterday and said something like, "see, i told you" and i said, "i know what i know." he picked up the phone dialed the guy on speaker and left a vmail for him saying, "this XX, i just saw you and as you and i discussed, my wife doesn't believe that there is nothing diagnosable about me. please give me a call back so you can speak directly with her."


I am so sorry that you are going through this. If I were you, I would take PPs advice and prepare for the worst. I would also take what he tells you with a grain of salt. Are you sure he called the doctor and not someone else (pretending it was the doctor) to prove his point. Also, his statement that the doctor stated that he couldn't submit an insurance claim because there was nothing to report does not make sense. I'm no expert, but if psychiatry is covered under your plan, he should be able to submit an out of network claim for the evaluation even if there was no diagnosis. People go to specialists to rule out things all the time, and the fact that those visits do not result in a diagnosis does not prevent them from having them covered.

[janine]

I glad to hear he's at least trying, but its not clear how much you feel his efforts are making things better between the two of you. Don't sell the importance of your own happiness short, for both you and your kids. Maybe leaving now is not an option but maybe it is the time to start to think of a plan (or a backup plan) of how to leave in the future. When/if you are ready, your son's therapist might be able to assist you.

I have more than a few friends whose marriages went south after their kids arrived, who divorced and now are really happily remarried. I'd hate to see you deprive yourself of that opportunity.

Yes to this. This all seems like a toxic situation that gets worse and finds new lows over the years. All kids adore their dads, and while somewhat reassuring that your DH is good with your son, I would not be truly assured on his parenting skills based on all his other actions and incidents - and it is impacting you and your abilities too! All the near misses will eventually come to a head, the tension is palpable and things are not sustainable, I'm sorry.This isn't good for your kids, most likely they are just used to it. I'm sorry to be so harsh for a BP, but it's time to take some action. Therapy IMO is not the end of the game it is part of the process and something that can give you tools and communciation assistance/third party mediation but it will not repair things that are fundamentally screwed up. Please give this some real thought so the cycle can start to be broken.

[AnnieW625]

I agree with what BabyBearsMom and Janine said. I have no BTDT experience at all and I guess it is nice to read that your DH is changing a bit and change does take time, but it sucks about how he took the whole psychiatrist thing. I hope things do get better eventually, but really if they aren't then I think you need to figure out what is best for you. Best wishes and lots of prayers.

[Reader]

I am so sorry that you are going through this. Are you sure he called the doctor and not someone else (pretending it was the doctor) to prove his point. Also, his statement that the doctor stated that he couldn't submit an insurance claim because there was nothing to report does not make sense. I'm no expert, but if psychiatry is covered under your plan, he should be able to submit an out of network claim for the evaluation even if there was no diagnosis. People go to specialists to rule out things all the time, and the fact that those visits do not result in a diagnosis does not prevent them from having them covered.

I agree. I'd be looking at the number he dialed to see if it matched the psychiatrist's. And I also don't think it makes sense that he couldn't file a claim...a while back DH went to a neurologist and a cardiologist to see what was going on with him. Insurance paid even though nothing was ever diagnosed.

[lovin2shop]

however, i'm not in a place where i can leave right now. for many reasons, the most significant of which is my son. he idolizes and adores H. it would shatter his world if we were to separate and given all that we're navigating with him already, there is no way either of us would do that to him. we actually are quite fine in front of the kids - we can laugh, joke, hug together, etc, etc. the time together is so limited anyway - only on weekends and for about 20 min each morning.


To be honest, for you guys to get back to a good place, I think you have to get to the place where you can and will leave. Not saying that you have to actually leave, but just mentally and financially be completely ready if necessary. To truly change, I think he needs to feel like you certainly will go through with it. Otherwise, he can just go through the motions (which it sounds like he is willing to do, so that is a step in the right direction), but not necessarily make fundamental change. And to change is really hard; people will sometimes claw to stay in the status quo even when it is clearly detrimental and not working. I think he still needs the wake up call about what all is really on the line here.

[Still-in-Shock]

To be honest, for you guys to get back to a good place, I think you have to get to the place where you can and will leave. Not saying that you have to actually leave, but just mentally and financially be completely ready if necessary. To truly change, I think he needs to feel like you certainly will go through with it. Otherwise, he can just go through the motions (which it sounds like he is willing to do, so that is a step in the right direction), but not necessarily make fundamental change. And to change is really hard; people will sometimes claw to stay in the status quo even when it is clearly detrimental and not working. I think he still needs the wake up call about what all is really on the line here.

I agree with this. My ex went through all the motions, but never really worked on our marriage. He would do foolish things, and then just before he crossed over the line, he would do something to make me want to keep working. We went to counseling, but he never did the exercises, except when we were in the car on our way to the next appt. His work, his friends and his family were more important than us. Until I left. Then he wanted to be in my life! We didn't have children. I think if we had, I might still be with him and miserable.

I agree with a pp poster about getting paperwork in order. Even if you have no plans to leave now, it is good to start putting some money away, even if it is only $25 a month into a "rainy day" account or mutual fund. If everything gets better, you can use the money to do something fun. If things just continue on as they have, you will not feel as stuck.

[vejemom]

megs, it is uncanny how much you nail things in many of the posts i've written re: my husband

so yes, he went to the psychiatrist yesterday. i had no childcare, so could not go. but i wrote a letter, which i shared with H first, so he could see what i said. i explained that i wanted to outline my concerns, b/c i was pretty sure H would not be able to articulate why he was there to see the doc in the first place - according to H, he was just going to basically check the box of doing what he was told to do by DS' psychiatrist. he (H) was firmly confident in his absolutely sound mental health.

he was not happy with my letter, which i tried to keep to straight facts - not being too emotional. he started trying to fight with me about each of the points, but i just ignored him.

he took the letter and left.

an hour after the appt was scheduled, he called and said, "well, sorry to disappoint you, but i gave the guy your letter and we talked and he agrees - there's nothing wrong with me that can be dx. no pill to make me something else, unfortunately for you."

i was honestly hoping maybe he would have a dx b/c it would almost have been like a "not guilty by reason of insanity" for all the stuff he's done.

but instead, i guess i just have a disgustingly selfish, self-centered prig of a husband.

oh well.

(i'm still not 100% convinced though - i swear he's a text book narcissist and his family history points strongly in this direction)

The problem with narcissism and BPD in general is that they're next to impossible to treat. :( This cuts really close to home for me and I'm probably overly invested in your story because of it. So if this isn't helpful, ignore me. My ex could be your husband's twin. Same profession, even. But I left him because I was sick of putting up with those personality traits and the behaviors associated with them. You don't have to be a diagnosable BPD for certain personality traits to be amplified to a troublesome extent. I used to worry that he would leave a baby in a hot car or kill one in a wreck. I used to marvel when I would read posts on the BBB about husbands that came home and actually took over for a few hours in the evening so a frazzled SAHM could make a Target run in peace. I remember laughing in the face of a pediatrician who suggested I grocery shop late at night for some "me" time. Because he wouldn't let me leave them alone with him even while they were sleeping at 10:30 because one might wake up and he had to "work". I almost had to call the cops to do a welfare check one Saturday while I was at work because I was alarmed by his text messages. The list goes on...

The letter was a bad idea. At least the psychiatrist he ended seeing before we parted ways wanted to speak to me on the phone privately as part of his case history. The doctor could think he's BSC and you're never going to know because your husband sure as heck won't tell you. I guess if he is "normal" it comes down to whether you want to hitch your wagon to the horse of someone who willfully treats his family like that. I'm sorry :( I know the past few years have been really rough for you and this is so not what you needed or deserved.

[wellyes]

If I'm following this right: he left the baby alone for no good reason, got caught, said he was sorry and he'd go to therapy, then in therapy it was determined that there is nothing wrong with him. That just does not compute. It almost sounds like he's gaslighting you.


Yes to this. This all seems like a toxic situation that gets worse and finds new lows over the years. All kids adore their dads, and while somewhat reassuring that your DH is good with your son, I would not be truly assured on his parenting skills based on all his other actions and incidents - and it is impacting you and your abilities too! All the near misses will eventually come to a head, the tension is palpable and things are not sustainable, I'm sorry.This isn't good for your kids, most likely they are just used to it. I'm sorry to be so harsh for a BP, but it's time to take some action. Therapy IMO is not the end of the game it is part of the process and something that can give you tools and communciation assistance/third party mediation but it will not repair things that are fundamentally screwed up. Please give this some real thought so the cycle can start to be broken.

Janine hit the nail on the head. I understand you can't leave because of your son, but, I also think you can't stay because of your son - your husband is teaching him some very uncomfortable lessons. I'm sure you're working very hard to shield him, but, kids always know.

[Ceepa]

I really hope things get better for you, OP.

There are red flags still from your DH, but pp have already expressed the general concern for you we have so I'll keep it short and say I'm sending hugs and PTs your way. :hug:

[StantonHyde]

1. Do you have a copy of the SIGNED Release of Information Form for the psychiatrist? This isn't a verbal agreement thing, it is a legal document that must be signed before the psychiatrist can say ANYTHING to you. You can get this from the MD's office, but I am pretty sure that your DH has to sign it at the office so they see it really is his signature. As soon as you get that ROI, call the MD to confirm:
A. That your DH really did show him the letter you wrote. Fax a copy of the letter to the MD's office so he can see the actual letter you wrote for comparison/proof.
B. What were the MD's impressions? (not a dx-just what did he think was going on)

2. Your husband is a narcissist. You know that. There are several books about this--try Amazon or any other bookstore. I found one titled something like "why does it always have to be about you". The ONLY way a narcissist changes is if they lose EVERYTHING and are forced to change. I am not sure that losing his wife and children would count for your DH--that's something to work on in therapy.

3. There is also the personality disorder piece which is basically when the person (your DH) is happy and everybody around him is miserable. That's a very short cut way to describe that kind of a diagnosis. But I would be willing to bet your DH might have something like a narcissistic personality disorder.

4. He's right--there is no pill that fixes anything really. That's what therapy is for. Meds can help. Unfortunately, there is no medication for narcissism. There are meds for anxiety and you might find out you need them when you talk to your doctor. That does not mean that you are the flawed one. It means you can get help. He is basically just an a$$hole. Believe me, my dad totally has a narccistic personality disorder. He can be charming as heck to other people. He even bull****ted the staff at the psychiatric hospital when he was there for 2 weeks getting ECT for his suicidal depression. Narciissists see themselves as victims. They have NO insight into how they treat other people. The doctor has only the patient's presentation. There really isn't a way for the doc to get the whole picture.

5. I understand wanting to work out life for your DS first. I really do get it. In the meantime----start putting away money in a bank account at a separate bank. Get a PO Box for mail. Document everything. If things work out, then you won't need this stuff. If they don't, you have a leg up. I will say that my brother and I would have been so much better off if my mom had divorced my dad. We would have been poor. But I would take back all the money on the colleges I went to if it meant not having to spend years in therapy figuring out all that crap that my dad put in my head.

And good luck to you. Really.

[pinkmomagain]

I have to agree with much of what pps said. People with certain mental illnesses really lack insight into their symptoms, behaviors, and impact on others. I wonder what his psychologist is thinking and if he was the one who referred him to the psychiatrist (I can't remember), in which case I would have thought that maybe they would have consulted. I think it is worth it for you to have your husband sign a release form so you can speak directly with his clinicians. If he has personality disorder, I think, these are not easy to have covered by insurance because they are very difficult to treat. If your DH is telling the truth, one possibility is that the psychiatrist did not see $$ in treating and let him go.

So sorry you are having such a hard go of things. Glad that it sounds like he wants to save your marriage/family and I hope that he is able to make the changes or get the treatment he needs to actually make that happen.

[Nicsmom]

I am very sorry that you are going through all of this. It must be very difficult to, on top of it all, think that the cost of your happiness is your child's heartbreak. Please don't think that. My parents divorced when I was 12, my brother was 10, and we both wished that they had divorced earlier. My dad was not a bad person, but he was a terrible husband, and seeing my mom become the happy person she was meant to be when she divorced him, made us both understand that it was the right decision. For all of us. Our relationship with our dad also improved after the divorce - he used to take us for granted when he lived with us, and when he left, he started making an effort to be a better dad. I'm not saying it was not hard for me and my brother at times - financially it was a big blow, and back then there was a lot of stigma to being a child whose parents were divorced. But all of our lives (our dad's included) changed for the better when he left, and our relationships with each other improved. So when the time comes - if it comes - when you cannot take this anymore, please do not think that your kids are going to suffer terribly. They need a happy mom more than anything in the world.

[boltfam]

To be honest, for you guys to get back to a good place, I think you have to get to the place where you can and will leave. Not saying that you have to actually leave, but just mentally and financially be completely ready if necessary. To truly change, I think he needs to feel like you certainly will go through with it. Otherwise, he can just go through the motions (which it sounds like he is willing to do, so that is a step in the right direction), but not necessarily make fundamental change. And to change is really hard; people will sometimes claw to stay in the status quo even when it is clearly detrimental and not working. I think he still needs the wake up call about what all is really on the line here.


I agree. I'd be looking at the number he dialed to see if it matched the psychiatrist's. And I also don't think it makes sense that he couldn't file a claim...a while back DH went to a neurologist and a cardiologist to see what was going on with him. Insurance paid even though nothing was ever diagnosed.


:yeahthat: to both of these. Insurance covers appointments regardless of if there is a diagnosis or not. I would give your DH the benefit of the doubt that maybe he didn't know that (my DH is clueless about his insurance), but I would make sure he gets you the receipt.

Like a PP said, you know that he is a narcissist. The psychiatrist wasn't seeing a complete picture of your DH (if he even went to the appt.), so I am not surprised that there was no dx. You are NOT the crazy one, and don't let him EVER make you think that you are. My DH can pull some of the same crap sometime, and I know how easy it is to start believing that maybe it is you sometimes.

I want to respect your decision to stay with him, so I am not going to try to sway you otherwise, but I think loving2shop's advice is great. Even if you never leave, I think it would help YOU to feel like you could leave if you needed/wanted to, and I think your DH needs to know what is at stake. He seems to think, "She'll never leave me", and I think he needs some of that fear in him before he's going to change.

You are so strong to handle all you have with your kids and your DH. I want to second what another pp said that anyone in your situation would AT LEAST be on anxiety meds. Hang in there and know that we are all rooting for you.

[alootikki]

I'm so sorry you are dealing with all of this. I agree with all of the previous posters that you should take steps to protect yourself and the children financially. However, be cautious regarding the divorce laws in your state.

One of my best friends went through a completely unexpected divorce in a state where the standard is 50/50 custody, and "no-fault". So even though her jerk of a husband was having an affair, left her to do all the heavy-lifting on childcare and forego her own career, and then decided to end the marriage without going to counseling, etc. - he still ended up with 50% custody. And my friend is now stuck in a state she never would have chosen on her own, far away from the family/friends she grew up with as well as any career prospects (and limited alimony).

I would be very apprehensive about putting the children in a situation where they would be with him, unsupervised, 50% of the time. Especially if he is charming to outsiders - a judge may not see/believe what's below the surface. Good luck - thinking of you!

[sntm]

There is a test called (if I remember correctly) the Clonninger personality disorder exam that is an objective measure of personality disorders. Very well validated. My ex and I had to take it during our custody battle and I worked with the psychiatrist that developed it in med school. Worth getting documented.

And in general, I agree that no matter how much your some adores him, it's probably worse for your kids for you to stay in a bad marriage with an unreliable spouse. Bad example for them to model on for their future relationships.

[vejemom]

I'm so sorry you are dealing with all of this. I agree with all of the previous posters that you should take steps to protect yourself and the children financially. However, be cautious regarding the divorce laws in your state.

One of my best friends went through a completely unexpected divorce in a state where the standard is 50/50 custody, and "no-fault". So even though her jerk of a husband was having an affair, left her to do all the heavy-lifting on childcare and forego her own career, and then decided to end the marriage without going to counseling, etc. - he still ended up with 50% custody. And my friend is now stuck in a state she never would have chosen on her own, far away from the family/friends she grew up with as well as any career prospects (and limited alimony).

I would be very apprehensive about putting the children in a situation where they would be with him, unsupervised, 50% of the time. Especially if he is charming to outsiders - a judge may not see/believe what's below the surface. Good luck - thinking of you!

No, don't scare her! States that presume 50% 50% are far and few in between. Florida is one, for example. But even there, it seems like if mom has a good lawyer and a good case, she'll prevail. IIRC, the OP is in NY or NJ, neither of which presume 50% 50%. NJ is also a great state for alimony. The OP needs to start a detailed journal of the activities she does with the kids each day. She also needs to document incidents like this. Honestly, I would google "top divorce lawyers in NYC" and set up a few consults. She needs skilled, level-headed guidance, even if she decides not to divorce. But this is such a delicate situation, and what she does now may be a big help down the road. It might be that she needs to document the incident with authorities in order to protect herself and the kids later down the road if a divorce becomes necessary. I say, too bad he wasn't gone long enough for her to call the police. They might not have done anything, but there would at least be a record of the incident. Enough documentation of his crap in the hands of the right lawyer could mean that he gets supervised parenting time. At least the kids would be safe.

OP, I realize that you value the relationship between your son and his dad. But do you want him growing up thinking this is the way that he's supposed to treat his future wife? Do you want your daughter thinking that it's OK for her future husband to treat her this way? Leaving him won't destroy the father/son relationship. It might even change it for the better. The other thing that strikes me about his off the wall behavior - Does he want a divorce but is too cowardly to come out and ask? To the casual observer, it seems like he's doing this in an effort to get you to leave.

[BabyBearsMom]

And in general, I agree that no matter how much your some adores him, it's probably worse for your kids for you to stay in a bad marriage with an unreliable spouse. Bad example for them to model on for their future relationships.

Kids are more perceptive than you think. When my mom's cancer was still up in the air, I was a wreck but I made a herculian effort to stay happy and smiling in front of the kids. Then one day, DD1, who is younger than your DS said to me "Mommy, it's okay to be sad sometimes. I get sad too when I am scared." I had no idea she was picking up on this, and thought I was really hiding her from it. I hadn't said a word to her about grandma being sick, but kids are perceptive and she figured it out. She even figured out that grandma had some kind of booboo without me telling her.

[arivecchi]

I am very sorry that you are going through all of this. It must be very difficult to, on top of it all, think that the cost of your happiness is your child's heartbreak. Please don't think that. My parents divorced when I was 12, my brother was 10, and we both wished that they had divorced earlier. My dad was not a bad person, but he was a terrible husband, and seeing my mom become the happy person she was meant to be when she divorced him, made us both understand that it was the right decision. For all of us. Our relationship with our dad also improved after the divorce - he used to take us for granted when he lived with us, and when he left, he started making an effort to be a better dad. I'm not saying it was not hard for me and my brother at times - financially it was a big blow, and back then there was a lot of stigma to being a child whose parents were divorced. But all of our lives (our dad's included) changed for the better when he left, and our relationships with each other improved. So when the time comes - if it comes - when you cannot take this anymore, please do not think that your kids are going to suffer terribly. They need a happy mom more than anything in the world. Same situation here. My mom would not get a divorce "for the kids". Meanwhile, my dad was making everyone miserable. My mom finally worked up the courage and is happier and doing a 1000 times better financially without my dad.

Given what you have posted so far, it honestly seems like you have zero leverage in this situation until you either leave or kick him out. He has zero incentive to really tackle any issues right now because - just like discliplining a kid - there are no consequences.

I'm sure not everyone shares my worldview, but I think it is my responsibility as a mom to be able to provide for my kids in the event that my DH is not around. I think you would do yourself and the kids a huge favor by taking steps to gain financial independence.

Take control of the situation because right now the situation is controlling you. Hugs.

[alootikki]

No, don't scare her! States that presume 50% 50% are far and few in between. Florida is one, for example. But even there, it seems like if mom has a good lawyer and a good case, she'll prevail. IIRC, the OP is in NY or NJ, neither of which presume 50% 50%.

Yes, my best friend is in Florida! She did have an excellent case (gave up a high-powered career in banking to follow her H to Florida, was the primary caregiver, etc) but she still ended up with 50% and no ability to relocate. Glad to know that this is not the case everywhere! Holding my friend's hand as she went through this was scary - the courts seem to favor equal time above all other factors, including the child's well-being. Sorry OP, didn't mean to scare you!

[boolady]

Given what you have posted so far, it honestly seems like you have zero leverage in this situation until you either leave or kick him out. He has zero incentive to really tackle any issues right now because - just like discliplining a kid - there are no consequences.

I'm sure not everyone shares my worldview, but I think it is my responsibility as a mom to be able to provide for my kids in the event that my DH is not around. I think you would do yourself and the kids a huge favor by taking steps to gain financial independence.

Take control of the situation because right now the situation is controlling you. Hugs.


I agree. I can't also help but think that your lack of control is what makes you feel so, well, out-of-control when it comes to any number of issues. And I don't blame you. Living a life where you're responsible for everything that happens not only to you, but to your entire family, but that you have no actual control over, is no way to live a life.

I think that you will feel better and be more able to think clearly about yourself and your future if you can find a way to be proactive, and not have to spend all of your time reacting to what other people, largely DH, put upon you. This will help you now, and later. You need to get to a place where you have choices other than putting up with what you've been putting up with.

[lmh2402]

I agree. I can't also help but think that your lack of control is what makes you feel so, well, out-of-control when it comes to any number of issues. And I don't blame you. Living a life where you're responsible for everything that happens not only to you, but to your entire family, but that you have no actual control over, is no way to live a life.

I think that you will feel better and be more able to think clearly about yourself and your future if you can find a way to be proactive, and not have to spend all of your time reacting to what other people, largely DH, put upon you. This will help you now, and later. You need to get to a place where you have choices other than putting up with what you've been putting up with.

thanks, guys

jen, i think the above is so very accurate.

i was trying to explain to my therapist yesterday...i just feel so....STUPID. so painfully, incredibly stupid. like i've been duped. i keep re-reading the text message i got from the woman he had his physical affair with - who said she felt sorry for me. and that she would never want to be me. and it makes me...livid. and so ashamed

and the doctor is real. he just called and left a message on H's cell - H played it for me. he spoke with H's psychologist who came to the same conclusion as the psychiatrist - there is no dx for H. in fact, the psychologist said that in order to bill, the codes she's using is for "behavior adjustment / anxiety" - no other personality disorder to speak of

i still cannot fathom how this is possible. given his history of sexual misconduct, job issues (has had 9 jobs since '07 and fired three times), run-ins with authorities for always being smarter than everyone else (arrested at least twice), wild family history, etc

someone up thread posted about whether or not i've spoken with anyone IRL. other than therapists - no. i haven't.

well, i did tell one friend. but i spent a long time agonizing over who to tell and selected this one friend b/c she is a newer friend - last four years. i intentionally didn't tell any of my oldest friends b/c i had told a few of them the first time this stuff was discovered in '07 and it messed things up for a while in terms of social situations. and i just didn't want the pity or the secret told-you-sos

so i told this new friend. and instantly regretted it. she's awesome. but we just weren't / aren't close enough -kwim? so it was awkward and we haven't touched with a ten foot pole since. she's tried to ask me if i'm ok, in the course of other times we're hanging out, but i just say yes and leave it be

i know i would feel better if i could talk to someone, but i just can't

and i feel so trapped by my stupidity and anger.

what's worse is i really do know he wants to make things better. he doesn't want a divorce. i know he knows he f'd up. but we're in this awful pattern of me beating him up, and him alternating between self-flagellation and being defensive.

it's just not productive. but i can't seem to get less angry. i'm so angry. and i feel so, so, SO stupid. and sad.

i know it's not supposed to be about pride, but i just feel like i've always had so little - self-esteem has always been a huge issue for me. so H - and his larger than life personality - and that fact that he wanted to be with me. it made me feel good. someone asked if he made me feel loved and cherished. yes, he did. he made me feel so special

and then i realized it was just him being him. not that i was special.

and that kills me. it literally took my breath away in '07 and i'm not sure i've ever gotten it back

sorry- i really need to get a life. it is beyond sad that i'm writing these books about my life and marriage on a random internet board.

[kdeunc]

sorry- i really need to get a life. it is beyond sad that i'm writing these books about my life and marriage on a random internet board.

I could not read this line and not respond because it made me so sad for you. Please don't feel that coming here and sharing, when you don't feel you can in "real life", is sad. Sometimes you just need to get things out and if this is the only place so be it. I am so sorry for what you are going through. I have no advice that hasn't already been shared but I just wanted you to know that you come across as a fiercely loving and concerned mom and a thoughtful person who is trying to figure a way out of a really sh***y situation that you are not responsible for! I wish you the best and peace with whatever route you decide to take.

[boolady]

and the doctor is real. he just called and left a message on H's cell - H played it for me. he spoke with H's psychologist who came to the same conclusion as the psychiatrist - there is no dx for H. in fact, the psychologist said that in order to bill, the codes she's using is for "behavior adjustment / anxiety" - no other personality disorder to speak of

i still cannot fathom how this is possible. given his history of sexual misconduct, job issues (has had 9 jobs since '07 and fired three times), run-ins with authorities for always being smarter than everyone else (arrested at least twice), wild family history, etc

You have no way of knowing that the dr actually knows about any of this. I know you wrote a letter, but I still don't trust that your DH gave it to him, or that this person who left the message is even the doctor. That sounds very conspiracy theorist, but this whole situation is beyond bizarre, including that he thinks he can't bill because she couldn't diagnose anything. Does your dr only bill your insurance company if you actually have strep throat, but not if the test comes back negative? Of course not. I also have to say, given your DH's apparent gift for manipulation, that I'm not sure a female psychologist is the greatest idea. I may be offending some mental health professionals on here, but I just wonder if she is the right fit, given his seeming ability to charm and manipulate everyone around him.

Would your DS's dr. be willing to talk to this psychiatrist, or another? I don't get how on earth your DS's dr. saw your DH so clearly, and no one else seems to.

Please, if nothing else, stop beating yourself up. You describe the pattern as "but we're in this awful pattern of me beating him up, and him alternating between self-flagellation and being defensive." He's the one that did wrong. He should know that, but it doesn't really seem to be the case. If you f up and really know it and get the significance of what you've done, there's nothing to be defensive about. You admit it, and work on truly making sure it never happens again.

If he doesn't understand, as you put in a previous post, why you still feel betrayed, and gets upset that you still bring it up, he doesn't get it. At all. And I fear for you that this will just happen over and over and over again, because there's really nothing stopping him.

[Clarity]

:grouphug: Don't you ever feel bad for a minute coming to us for help with a very personal painful situation. I'm so sorry that you have to put up with this level of *crap*. Please follow everyone's suggestions and at the very least, consult an attorney and document EVERYTHING. My df sought a divorce from her dh and consulted an attorney two years before she filed for divorce (which was amicable and they are still on good terms).

[psimpson3-5]

I sincerely wish I could be your IRL friend. I know how difficult it is to tell someone what's really going on. I haven't really told any of my friends what H has done in the past. I've told 1 long time friend, but wasn't completely honest; I still feel pretty lost about our situation. I can relate with your many issues on so many levels. I strongly hope you continue to lean on us. I know I can't speak for everyone, but I always read your posts looking for update. I think of you often. I hope your situation improves very soon. You are definitely doing the right thing by going to a therapist and marriage counselor.

[boolady]

The more I think about your situation, the more I think that it may not matter if DH gets a diagnosis, because based on what you've said about his personality, he's unwilling to do anything other than putting on short-term BandAids to "fix" complex and hurtful situations he's created. If he ever stumbles upon a mental health professional who tells him something he doesn't want to hear, he's likely to write that person off as a quack and run for the hills. Let's be honest-- if arrests and multiple firings and the thought of losing his wife hasn't stopped him, what will? He should be begging a mental health professional to help him, but I'm quite sure it's not going down that way. Callous as this sounds, based on how he's treated you, if your DH wants to ruin his own life, he can go right ahead.

I think you MUST focus on fixing you; specifically, how you feel about yourself. I know from things you've posted that there are issues that go back way further than your relationship with DH, and until you sort them out and realize that you're worth something, regardless of what DH or anyone in your family thinks, or whether they're angry with you or agree or disagree with your decisions, nothing is ever going to change. I'll say it-- posters have mentioned how your relationship with your DH will affect your son, but also think about your DD. Do you want her to feel like you do about yourself when she grows up? I'm sure you don't. I'm sure you will want her to know that she is just as capable and worthy of love and respect and all good things as her brother. But if things continue this way, and as your kids get older, they're both going to be learning a lot of lessons, especially implicit ones, that I'm sure you don't want them learning. And I have seen, in an extended family member situation of DH's, that when a husband/father treats his wife like garbage, the kids are doing the same by the time they're tweens.

Wouldn't it be freeing to not feel so bad about yourself all the time? To not feel trapped and subject to everyone's desires but your own? You can attain that, and you deserve to. You seem to have so much love and kindness to offer but you've go to show yourself some first. Then, you can hold out for someone who shows you the love and kindess you deserve in response. And you should. You need to. For you and for your kids.

[AnnieW625]

I could not read this line and not respond because it made me so sad for you. Please don't feel that coming here and sharing, when you don't feel you can in "real life", is sad. Sometimes you just need to get things out and if this is the only place so be it. I am so sorry for what you are going through. I have no advice that hasn't already been shared but I just wanted you to know that you come across as a fiercely loving and concerned mom and a thoughtful person who is trying to figure a way out of a really sh***y situation that you are not responsible for! I wish you the best and peace with whatever route you decide to take.
:yeahthat:

Plus the friend you told is interested, she has asked if you are okay, she is concerned. I would reach out to her again. She is there for you and if you can't talk about it at a party or a playdate then call her and tell her you want to meet her for shopping, lunch, coffee, just something where you two can be two people on a day your mom is here to watch your children or if you can just take DD with you. You need to talk to someone other than your therapist and us about this. It might help or it might not help, but you will never know unless you try and brushing it off as saying you are okay with something is just hiding the fact that you really aren't okay with it.

I also think you need to talk to your sister or your mother ASAP they would be completely clueless IMHO if they didn't know something was up. They need to know.

I agree that your kids probably know something is up. My DD1 was just 3 when we lost baby 2 and I know for sure she didn't get everything, but one of the best memories (if it is possible to have any memories from the loss of a child) was a few months post loss she saw a large photo of a dr. on the wall at our YMCA and she flat out told me "the doctor made mommy all better." Up until that point I knew she knew something was up, but the fact that she knew I had been to the doctor countless times in a two month period and put everything together made me realize that she knew more about the situation than I really thought she did.

I know that all of us wish there was more of a way that we could all help, but it isn't possible because most of us don't live in your general area, but we know that if we did if you would take help from us we would be there for you and even though we are online we are still there for you and your family.

Again lots of :grouphug:, :hug:, and :praying: to you. You are strong and it may take some time, but you will get through it.

[basil]

I purchased this book for my DH when he was dealing with an abusive boss, which isn't even half as bad as what you're dealing with. I think it would be helpful for you.

http://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374247418&sr=8-1&keywords=sociopath+next+door

[icunurse]

I wouldn't discount the friend you told just yet. I have a friend for the past four years and, despite being close, if she told me something like that, I would kinda feel like I needed her to lead me as to what kind of reaction that she wants. Does she want anger, compassion, honesty, etc? Because, to be honest, from reading your posts, if I were your confided friend, I would be angry, thinking that you should leave, never look back and don't think twice. But, being a newish friend, I might not know how that would go over without your input. Opinion and reaction are two very different things. Don't give up on her. Heck, don't give up on any of your friends. Why are you covering for him? If you are afraid that others will think that you are weak or stupid - DON'T. He screwed up and will ultimately get the evil eye. Perhaps having it out there and having support in-person might give you the strength to take action in some way. Or at least let your DH know that he is on watch.

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I can understand that things aren't always as easy as an outsider might make it seem, especially if you don't have family or support. But you can make this better. You need to make this better for your children. It might take time and it might be hard, but you can do it. You deserve better than this.

[Green22]

If I'm following this right: he left the baby alone for no good reason, got caught, said he was sorry and he'd go to therapy, then in therapy it was determined that there is nothing wrong with him. That just does not compute. It almost sounds like he's gaslighting you.



Janine hit the nail on the head. I understand you can't leave because of your son, but, I also think you can't stay because of your son - your husband is teaching him some very uncomfortable lessons. I'm sure you're working very hard to shield him, but, kids always know.


I am not trying to be overly harsh or judgmental but I feel that someone else needs to echo this and maybe point out the obvious: you probably have co-dependent personality traits. You really must work on this with your own personal therapist if you want to have a good relationship with your children in the future. I say this as a woman who has co-d's in her own family and who is married to a man who is basically your son, although His father was more horrible than your dh sounds (although he was also in his life longer, so maybe in time things would get worse). My mil tried to foster a relationship with her h and his kids, and my h adored his father. Now he realizes he was just trying to interact with him and do anything the dad wanted so that he would get signs of approval which was as close as he got to being loved. Mil and her h did divorce in time, she never really worked on her own co-d issues so she ended up continuing in a bad cycle and failing her children in very significant ways as they grew up.

Again, I am not trying to be mean or judgmental but I feel like I am watching my dh's story unfold with your son. You obviously love your children tremendously. I really do not want you to have the same fate as my mil, which is horribly strained, sad and generally angry interactions with her adult children. They resent her and do not trust her and I do not want that for you. I really hope you stop trying to fix a manipulative, dishonest man with a non-fixable personality disorder, that you focus on dealing with your own issues, and that you leave him and find a healthy person with whom to have a healthy relationship (which will be filled with its own issues and difficulties, but none of which are at the level of crap you are dealing with now), and you give your kids a chance to have a loving, consistent father figure. Almost daily I wish my mil had done this for her children. They have really suffered.

Truly, I wish you the best of luck. It is hard.

[specialp]

The friend is asking if you are okay and my guess is that she doesn’t want to seem nosey or push you, wants you to lead, but wants you to know she heard you and is concerned. I’ve been in your friend’s shoes and felt like it was my job just to listen, not offer opinions and reflect back what she was feeling. I had to walk a line in being supportive so that no matter what decision she eventually made, she knew I would be there for her. I think your family, mother, sister, etc., if you are close to them, would be good, too. Problems get bigger and bigger when you’re alone and keep them inside. Out of curiosity, when you are around friends and family, are you good at pretending that everything is great? Or do they know something is not right, but just don’t know the source?

[dogmom]

When I was considering getting divorced from my first husband many years ago what I learned that when I asked for marital advice I found out how other peoples' marriages were doing, what their past relationships had been, but very little workable knowledge of my own situation. The harsh reality is that you need to figure this out for yourself, and you will need to live with the consequences of your decision. I will say one thing about the situation, if your child was in the exact same situation what would you want for them? If it is different, why is that?

Also I think it is hard to reach out to people in real life. I've been put in many uncomfortable situations in the past with people in marriages I don't understand and I'm never sure if they just want me to listen to them bitch, if they want solutions, or if they want support. Or to quote a friend of mine when I asked why he didn't tell me something when I married my first husband when he knew it wasn't a good idea, "I can't stand in front of that train." There are situations I have distanced myself for my own good.

[avd3875]

You've gotten such great advice from everyone, and I have nothing I can think of to add, just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you.

[pinkmomagain]

I think you MUST focus on fixing you; specifically, how you feel about yourself. I know from things you've posted that there are issues that go back way further than your relationship with DH, and until you sort them out and realize that you're worth something, regardless of what DH or anyone in your family thinks, or whether they're angry with you or agree or disagree with your decisions, nothing is ever going to change. I'll say it-- posters have mentioned how your relationship with your DH will affect your son, but also think about your DD. Do you want her to feel like you do about yourself when she grows up? I'm sure you don't. I'm sure you will want her to know that she is just as capable and worthy of love and respect and all good things as her brother. But if things continue this way, and as your kids get older, they're both going to be learning a lot of lessons, especially implicit ones, that I'm sure you don't want them learning. And I have seen, in an extended family member situation of DH's, that when a husband/father treats his wife like garbage, the kids are doing the same by the time they're tweens.

Wouldn't it be freeing to not feel so bad about yourself all the time? To not feel trapped and subject to everyone's desires but your own? You can attain that, and you deserve to. You seem to have so much love and kindness to offer but you've go to show yourself some first. Then, you can hold out for someone who shows you the love and kindess you deserve in response. And you should. You need to. For you and for your kids.

This is very good advice. I wouldn't expend one more ounce of energy on trying to get him "fixed" (he may not even be fixable) and focus completely on yourself. I think your overall situation will only improve when you've worked through your self-esteem issues.

[Still-in-Shock]

Hoping today is a better day in your world.

[Corie]

Maybe I missed this somewhere but how are you even sure that he gave your letter to the psychologist? He probably crumpled it up and tossed
it in the trash then just told you that he gave the letter to the pyschologist.

Your husband really sounds like an ass. Hang in there!!!

[karstmama]

some good advice in the thread, and some i'm sure won't ring true to you for whatever reason. keep thinking things through.

i really hope today was a day with some sunshine.

[niccig]

:hug: I think it's a guy thing to want to rush to fixing things. Dh told our marriage therapist that he just wants to know what to do to fix things. She's making him focus on emotions - what I'm feeling, what he's feeling..and he just wants to know what to do to make things better. It's not that simple or quick to fix. No advice. Just commiserations.

[TwinFoxes]

I have every sympathy for you. But I don't get it. I've never read one positive thing about your DH. I've never read anything about him and your son having a good relationship. I just read that he's exasperated by DS and has said cruel things. And saying you broke DS. Maybe you think DS would be devastated, but you're the adult, you have to make tough decisions for DS's welfare. Anyway, I hope it works out in whatever way is best for your kids.

[lmh2402]

thank you all for your thoughts and support

as i'm sure you know, every detail of my life - good and bad - is not shared here. however, i will freely admit that i have sought advice and support for the harder, more difficult times here. so they are far more documented. and if i'm being totally honest, yes...it's pretty clear that things are not good. they're far from great. they're often really not good at all.

but, my children really do adore their dad. even DD, who i wasn't srue she would even recognize him given how little she saw him for months and months. yet, somehow, she knew it was her dad.

and yes, he's said some really awful, cruel things in days and times of frustration about both of the kids, and about me. and i'm not excusing that at all. never would. but i do know that he loves the kids. he's DS' best buddy and playmate...during the times that he's actually around. without his face stuck in a blackberry.

for nwo, i'm definitely not in a place in my life or marriage, where either of us is ready to walk away. not yet.

i grew up in a marriage that was together for the kids. i know the damage that it can cause. and it's fair to ask what i would want for my kids, if they were in my shoes.

this is an excruciatingly hard situation. i wish i had a better set of answers - for myself, for H, for my kids, for you guys.

but i don't. i'm just doing my best each day, and some days are better than others.

anyway, i wanted to say thanks. i'm going to step out of this tread, but i do appreciate the support and the advice and the hugs.

i know i've sought it many times.

[MamaMolly]

Honey it is early days yet. I don't think you are going to have the answers to all those tough questions right away. You are going to have to work through this stuff and decide what you want and how to go about getting it. Only you know how the good and the bad measure up, only you know what is worth fighting for and what is worth giving up on. I wish you all the best as you travel this journey.

[TwinFoxes]

Good luck. I know it can't be easy. I hope everything works out well and you get to a better place. :hug: