leg pain / knee pain / tired legs in 4 yo DS

[lmh2402]

DS has been complaining of pain in his legs on and off for awhile

i assumed it was growing pains - he would usually point to his his shins

tonight right before dinner he collapsed on the kitchen floor moaning and then crying hysterically about pain in his knees. he said it was right inside his knee. i tried getting him to sit with his legs straight, and then with them bent - he claimed to feel no relief either way.

does this sound like growing pains? he's also complained a lot about his legs being tired.

and his body being tired.

his sleep is not the best but i can't figure out how to make it better - i can't put him to bed any earlier. he wakes up earlier no matter what time i put him in.

i know this has turned rambling, but i'm concerned and considering calling the doctor tomorrow. but i'm looking for the wisdom here to tell me if i'm just being paranoid.

thx

[BunnyBee]

I'd give him a warm bath and some Tylenol/Motrin and see how he feels. Growing pains are usually in the evening or night. Is he complaining in the morning of pain? Redness or warmth on knee joint?

[lmh2402]

i gave him motrin and after 20 min he said he felt much better. stopped crying and was able to eat dinner. when it started he said he felt too nauseous to eat

i don't see any redness on the joint

time of day for his complaints varies

thanks for the feedback.

[chlobo]

Joint pain and fatigue are classic symptoms of Lyme. I think I'd take him in to be evaluated and possibly tested.

[ShanaMama]

My 5 yo has been complaining of similar pains for years now. In fact I think I posted about it. My Ped blows it off as growing pains, orthopedist said she has no issues that should be causing pain. She needs to wear good shoes for her feet. But the only thing I can find that makes a difference is how much she drinks. When I know she's well hydrated she seems to have less pain & vice versa. I know it's really hard to see them suffer & not be able to do anything about. She refuses to take Tylenol or anything when it happens & only wants me to rub her feet. Somehow my ribbon is never adequate. :(

[jren]

I don't ever see any harm in having it checked out. It could be anything, or nothing. I'm not saying this is what I think he has, I don't at all, but my DS is recently recovered from osteomyelitis. We caught it early, which prevented a hospital stay and any serious complications. But it still took three months to beat. At first, because his symptoms came and went, I thought he was faking. But I took him in anyway.

[Melbel]

Joint pain and fatigue are classic symptoms of Lyme. I think I'd take him in to be evaluated and possibly tested.

I would absolutely, positively take steps to better rule out Lyme with a know knowledgable doctor (PANDAS/PANS doctors do not know Lyme unfortunately). The joint pain and his other conditions that you documented here are HIGHLY indicative of Lyme Disease (not to mention the fact that you live in a HIGHLY endemic area).

Due to testing unreliability, most Lyme Literate Medical Doctors (LLMDs) advise patients to skip the initial Lyme Disease ELISA screen (which misses about 1/2 of actual cases), and instead start with the confirmatory test, the Western Blot. Many prefer to have a Western Blot through the lab iGeneX (www.iGeneX.com) for three reasons: (1) iGeneX tests for multiple strains of Borrelia Burgdorferi (Bb), the bacteria that causes Lyme Disease (commercial labs such as Labcorp and Quest only test for a single strain of Bb); (2) IGeneX also considers additional highly relevant bands 31 and 34 (assuming you did not have the Lyme vaccine that was briefly on the market); and (3) iGeneX reveals intensity for specific bands (not present, equivocal, low, medium and high). Note that IgeneX has scored over 98% on proficiency tests for the past 9 years.

Some doctors prescribe antibiotics used to treat Lyme for a couple weeks before testing to help provoke an immune response on a Western Blot (most tests are for an immune antibody response, not the actual bacteria).

Western Blot test results will include both IgG and IgM assays. It is critically important that one not look at the NEGATIVE or POSITIVE summary result of the Western Blot test. Instead, it is important to carefully consider Lyme-specific bands (those bands that represent evidence of serological exposure to Bb). Many Lyme doctors believe that a single Lyme-specific band, along with clinical presentation, is sufficient to diagnose Lyme Disease (with an acknowledged 3% false positive rate). Likewise, in China, a single positive IgG band coupled with a single IgM band is considered to be a positive Western Blot. In comparison, the CDC’s lofty surveillance criteria require a total of seven (7) positive bands (this is part of the same surveillance program that missed at least 90% of actual cases per recent CDC press releases; thus, the CDC now estimates there are at least 300,000 cases per year, not 30,000. iGeneX requires a total of four (4) positive bands for a positive WB. The following bands are generally considered to be Lyme-specific: 22-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 35, 37, 39, 58, 66, 83 and 93.

The state of Virginia recently passed legislation requiring doctors to inform patients that test negative on Lyme tests are fallible, with many false negatives.

Please, please, please get him tested for Lyme Disease. Two friends who did not think they could possibly have Lyme recently tested positive.

[lmh2402]

thanks, guys

melbel, pm'ing you

i took him in today and the doctor took nine vials of blood to test for lots of stuff. she said she did not think it was growing pains - he never wakes up with discomfort in the middle of the night. the times it happens are very variable. he came out of school today and dropped to the ground rubbing his legs and then cried most of the way to the doctor. he then seemed better in the late afternoon, but once again at dinner time he melted down and was sobbing on the kitchen floor.

unlike yesterday when he was very clear that it was pain in his knees, tonight he was saying the whole leg (both) hurt. he was sobbing and retching and begging me to help him. very disconcerting.

hoping we get some clear answers soon

[pinkmomagain]

No advice, just so sorry to hear that you and your sweet boy are dealing with this and hope you find answers and resolutions quickly!

[Melbel]

thanks, guys

melbel, pm'ing you

i took him in today and the doctor took nine vials of blood to test for lots of stuff. she said she did not think it was growing pains - he never wakes up with discomfort in the middle of the night. the times it happens are very variable. he came out of school today and dropped to the ground rubbing his legs and then cried most of the way to the doctor. he then seemed better in the late afternoon, but once again at dinner time he melted down and was sobbing on the kitchen floor.

unlike yesterday when he was very clear that it was pain in his knees, tonight he was saying the whole leg (both) hurt. he was sobbing and retching and begging me to help him. very disconcerting.

hoping we get some clear answers soon

Your post makes my heart ache for your sweet boy. I am glad that his pediatrician is taking his complaints seriously and is running labs. Lyme pain tends to migrate, but it is prudent to consider other causes too. Can you dose him with Motrin? I would also try and avoid inflammatory type foods (i.e. gluten, dairy).

[citymama]

Sending P&PT. I hope you have some answers soon, and it is nothing serious. Hugs.

[ShanaMama]

Sobbing & retching in pain? Poor baby. Poor Mommy. I'm sorry you're going thru this. It sounds a lot worse than my DD's symptoms. I hope you find an answer.

[BunnyBee]

So glad your doctor is taking your concerns seriously! And poor baby--hope he gets relief soon.

[lmh2402]

thanks, guys

doc gave a few good ideas re: really innocuous causes (1) he's been living in water shoes or barefoot all summer - maybe the lack of arch support has caught up with him, or (2) perhaps he's getting leg cramps and doesn't know the word "cramps"

i'm to stay relaxed and keep perspective that chances are it's nothing too serious, right? but the cramp thing seems like a bit of a long shot since he's specified pain right in his joints on multiple occasions, plus he eats a TON of watermelon and bananas and i make sure he has lots of wate during the day. i did ask his teacher to make sure he's drinking lots during the day and she agreed.

fingers crossed that all labs come back normal.

thanks for the thoughts.

[123LuckyMom]

I'm just thinking of you and hoping they find a diagnosis soon so you can get started on the cure!

[lmh2402]

doc just called to say all tests are normal so far - only thing they're still waiting on are mono and Lyme, which will take a week. though i'm not sure the Lyme will be reliable anyway since it's just the standard test.