How Would You Discipline for This?

[anonomom]

Got a call from a friend -- my DD1 (7.5) told her daughter (5.5) the story of "Bloody Mary" on the bus today. Now the 5yo is apparently terrified and won't go anywhere near a mirror alone.

DD heard this story last year, and got in trouble for relaying it to her then-3yo sister (who was frightened similarly to the 5yo today). We told her repeatedly and clearly that she is not allowed to repeat scary stories to younger kids, and IIRC, reminded her of that again this year (but I am not 100% sure that we issued the reminder because my short-term memory rivals Dory's these days). Regardless, from the look on her face when she realized what I was talking about on the phone, she knew darned well that she had done wrong. She says she "forgot" that she wasn't allowed to tell smaller kids scary stories, which is her catch-all excuse every time she messes up.

I'm trying to figure out how to discipline her for this. The first step is clearly an apology note to the little girl, complete with a explanation that the story is fiction. But given that DD1 has had issues in the past with deliberate disobedience, I feel like something more severe is called for especially since this time her actions actually caused harm to someone else. Problem is, there's not a reasonable consequence for this kind of behavior. Any ideas?

[maestramommy]

Wow, that's a new one! Well, how do you normally deal with deliberate disobedience? You could simply go with the same thing. Something that stings (figuratively!).

[HannaAddict]

I would talk to her about it and the note, I can't think of what logical consequences fall from this so wouldn't think of another punishment. I also think the other child hasn't been "harmed" even if scared a bit. I guess I think kids do stuff and it is developmentally normal to be deliberately disobedient too. I don't know what she has had issues with in the past, but telling a scary story to the kindergartners on the bus seems pretty "normal" having been said kindergartner once long ago. I think the note and stern talking to is fine.

ETA I also think the "I forgot" catch-all is true in part, and something people the world over use. When she grows up, she may well be cross-examine the head of a investment brokerage who will continuously repeat "I don't recall" :)

[bisous]

You know what is tricky about this? It is becoming kind of a "forbidden fruit" to talk about, KWIM? I imagine as kids get older the stories will only get "scarier" or more off color and you won't always be informed of her storytelling. I'm NOT trying to insinuate that what she is doing is terrible or she's a troublemaker, I'm just thinking generally as kids get older they start talking about stuff we'd probably rather that they keep secret or not share with each other, etc. I can only imagine the range of topics. Can you take this opportunity to build empathy in her for the other child? Have a discussion about inappropriate conversations and the results they can have on other people? As far as punishment, I don't really know. I'd probably go with something appropriate to the "crime". Maybe she's not allowed to watch on movie night because that's the source of the "scary" stories (or something along those lines??)

I'm really not sure, anonomom. Maybe somebody will have more wisdom!

[o_mom]

It may require some help from the bus driver, but could you 'ban' her from sitting with this friend for a week?

If she really likes the 5.5 yo, then just forbidding sitting with her might be enough.

OTOH, the dynamics of how it happened might need to be explored - was she showing off for her same age friends on the bus? If so, maybe sitting in the front seat alone for a week would be ideal. Some combination of she loses the privilege of sitting where she wants and/or needs more supervision if she can't control herself.

ETA: Like bisous said, whatever consequence you use, the emphasis needs to be on how her actions hurt the other child, not the disobedience. You want to build that internal regulation that "we don't do things that hurt others", not "we don't do them because we might get in trouble".

[wellyes]

I would talk to her about it and the note, I can't think of what logical consequences fall from this so wouldn't think of another punishment. I also think the other child hasn't been "harmed" even if scared a bit. I guess I think kids do stuff and it is developmentally normal to be deliberately disobedient too. I don't know what she has had issues with in the past, but telling a scary story to the kindergartners on the bus seems pretty "normal" having been said kindergartner once long ago. I think the note and stern talking to is fine.

ETA I also think the "I forgot" catch-all is true in part, and something people the world over use. When she grows up, she may well be cross-examine the head of a investment brokerage who will continuously repeat "I don't recall" :)

Oh I don't agree. It is developmentally normal to disobey, but that doesn't mean you should discipline lightly for it. Quite the opposite. When kids test boundaries and rules, when they try to see what they can get away with, that is precisely the time to be firm.

I'd say a reasonable consequence for scaring a little kid on purpose is losing a privilege. No bedtime story, no favorite TV show tonight, something like that.
I'd say those fun things aren't for kids who don't act mean.

[sste]

Well, I would remove any of her scary/semi-scary books and toys and not let her watch any remotely scary tv shows (you could be quite generous in the definition here) for a week because she has not made good choices about sharing scary material.

I would also ask my child how they plan to make amends to the other child and what they can do repair some of the damage. With your nudging, she can probably come up with a decent plan that you can run by the other parent to make sure it won't further traumatize the other child! For example, could she apologize and offer to be a special buddy and watch out for the little girl on the bus? Could your DD make up a positive, happy story about a mirror and share it with the girl (again ask parents!). I would see what ideas your DD has . . .

Honestly though it is easy to react from here in internetland but in the moment I would be fuming at my DC and skulking in shame around the other parent!!

[anonomom]

Thanks, all, for the replies so far. Some answers to questions:

1. DD heard the story at school last year from another kid, and apparently it's an extremely popular lunch/recess discussion topic among the 2nd grade girls,

2. The 5yo is the little sister of DD1's good friend, who is also in second grade.

I agree that I need to focus on the harm to the little girl, not the disobedience (even though it's the disobedience that is currently sticking in my craw, but that's my own control issues showing).

[dogmom]

Oh, I would not expect a 7.5 year old to remember something I told them not to do about such a juicy right a passage story when they were 6! It's one thing if it came up all the time. Or last week. But I would use it to talk about how different kids like to be scared, and some don't. I would explain she really scared the child and see if she had ideas. I would stop short of the note, but I might be in a minority. Part of me wants to tell the other parent to just grow a pair. I mean, I would so much rather my kid heard about Bloody Mary than see dead kids in Syria, much easier to explain. If you want to protect your kids that much, home school. Like I said, distinct minority.

It's like the Santa Claus thing, we don't do it. I think I am a reasonable person and explain to my kids not to ruin it for other kids. My kids are really good about it and think it would be mean to do that to someone. But is some parent got in my face and got all worked about that my kid told their kid there was no Santa I would think they were out of line. To me a 7.5 telling a 5 yo on the school bus about Bloody Mary is an age appropriate behavior thing, so a parent should not get all worked up about it. It think we spend way to much time micromanaging our kids interactions with other kids. This is how they learn what is right and what is wrong, by doing the wrong thing and seeing the results.

Oh, and BTW, I would never call you up and say, "your kid told my kid the Bloody Mary story." Now, if every day she did that, it would be different, but not a one off. Once again, grow some parenting balls.

[Cuckoomamma]

I think the natural consequence has already taken place. The little girl's mom called and wasn't very happy (natural consequence 1) and her friend was unhappy (natural consequence 2). I would have a frank discussion with her about how as she grows older you are consistently expanding what responsibilities and experiences that you feel she's able to handle. This has made you realize that she isn't able to handle more mature topics and not share them with younger people. You'll be slowing down her exposure to more grown up experiences until you feel she's ready.

I wouldn't bring it up again, and it wouldn't be a conversation that had a discipline tone to it. Just a very realistic/factual tone. I don't think you have to actually curtail her exposure to anything. The conversation and the other natural consequences may be enough.

[HannaAddict]

Thanks, all, for the replies so far. Some answers to questions:

1. DD heard the story at school last year from another kid, and apparently it's an extremely popular lunch/recess discussion topic among the 2nd grade girls,

2. The 5yo is the little sister of DD1's good friend, who is also in second grade.

I agree that I need to focus on the harm to the little girl, not the disobedience (even though it's the disobedience that is currently sticking in my craw, but that's my own control issues showing).

This makes me think that the note is appropriate punishment and I doubt your daughter was alone in this. By developmentally appropriate, I just mean that kids do stuff, they make mistakes, disobey, and every transgression doesn't need a week of punishment or crack down. The note idea you had or idea of her being especially nice to the other little kid seems like enough from the circumstances you have described.

[HannaAddict]

I think the natural consequence has already taken place. The little girl's mom called and wasn't very happy (natural consequence 1) and her friend was unhappy (natural consequence 2). I would have a frank discussion with her about how as she grows older you are consistently expanding what responsibilities and experiences that you feel she's able to handle. This has made you realize that she isn't able to handle more mature topics and not share them with younger people. You'll be slowing down her exposure to more grown up experiences until you feel she's ready.

I wouldn't bring it up again, and it wouldn't be a conversation that had a discipline tone to it. Just a very realistic/factual tone. I don't think you have to actually curtail her exposure to anything. The conversation and the other natural consequences may be enough.

I just read this and am in your distinct minority camp. :) I do think parents need to let kids work stuff out and not take everything so personally. Parents and kids need to be a little resilient and not so fragile. It would take much more and repeated incidents of objectionable behavior to generate a call to a parent. But we are in the age of uber helicopter parenting.

[wellyes]

I just read this and am in your distinct minority camp. :) I do think parents need to let kids work stuff out and not take everything so personally. Parents and kids need to be a little resilient and not so fragile. It would take much more and repeated incidents of objectionable behavior to generate a call to a parent. But we are in the age of uber helicopter parenting.

It is "uber helicopter parenting" to step in when someone tells a 5 year old an evil bloody ghost is going to get her in the night? Seriously?

It was a repeated incident, actually, since the kid already got in trouble for telling the same story to a different little kid.

Look, I don't think this was a major crime or that big of a deal. But if a mom is made aware of her kid being mean, and the kid KNOWS she knows, to brush it off as "kids will be kids" is a bad idea, in my opinion. Getting busted and nothing happening isn't really a consequence, to me.

[AngB]

I agree with HannaAddict and cuckoomamma on this. I wouldn't punish further than the apology note and think the natural consequence (the younger kid isn't going to want to sit by her, the younger kid's parents don't want her to sit by her, etc.) is plenty. I also think it is way over the top that the other parent called you about this.

[carolinacool]

I also think it is way over the top that the other parent called you about this.

I thought that as well. I wouldn't be thrilled if someone told my kid this, but I can't say I would call another parent about it unless that parent was a super close relative or friend.

[Melaine]

Well, I would remove any of her scary/semi-scary books and toys and not let her watch any remotely scary tv shows (you could be quite generous in the definition here) for a week because she has not made good choices about sharing scary material.

I would also ask my child how they plan to make amends to the other child and what they can do repair some of the damage. With your nudging, she can probably come up with a decent plan that you can run by the other parent to make sure it won't further traumatize the other child! For example, could she apologize and offer to be a special buddy and watch out for the little girl on the bus? Could your DD make up a positive, happy story about a mirror and share it with the girl (again ask parents!). I would see what ideas your DD has . . .

Honestly though it is easy to react from here in internetland but in the moment I would be fuming at my DC and skulking in shame around the other parent!!

I really like this. I agree with wellyes 100% too. I wouldn't let this go. and I don't consider the OP getting a call from the other mom a consequence for her DD at all.

[Tondi G]

I agree with HannaAddict and cuckoomamma on this. I wouldn't punish further than the apology note and think the natural consequence (the younger kid isn't going to want to sit by her, the younger kid's parents don't want her to sit by her, etc.) is plenty. I also think it is way over the top that the other parent called you about this.

Yup me too. I bet that someone in your DD grade brought up the story today on the school yard ... so it was fresh in her mind again. She probably wanted to "pass" on the story to another kid and the younger one on the bus was a perfect candidate. The kids at our school talk about the scary bathroom ... and there is a rumor about a little girl got murdered in there. Of course it is a boys bathroom and then my DS who was 5 or 6 at the time was telling me about the story when I picked him up. I explained to him that there will always be some "story" at school, at camp etc. People tell it like it is real but it is fiction and a little bit of a tradition. I promise you that the 5 year old will hear the story of Bloody Mary again in her elementary years ... and in a couple of years may be passing on that tradition to other younger kids herself. This is a classic case of Helicopter parenting .... calling the parent to tattle on their kid who told a story to their child and their kid got scared. Reassure your own child ... tell them the story is made up and that it has been talked about for ages. If she mentioned it the next day when you were waiting at the bus stop like "hey, your kid told my kid about Bloody Mary and she was scared ... maybe she can keep the stories more G rated in the future". You talk to your kid again about how it scared the little girl and that if she wants to discuss Bloody Mary to keep it with kids in her grade or above. She can tell the other little girl that she was sorry that she got scared.... that it was a story she heard in 1st grade and someone talked about it again.... but it is not real. Plain and simple ... DONE!

[arivecchi]

I also think it is way over the top that the other parent called you about this.
:yeahthat:
I agree. I'd be embarrassed to make that call!

I think a conversation and apology are sufficient.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

:yeahthat:
I agree. I'd be embarrassed to make that call!

I think a conversation and apology are sufficient.
:yeahthat: Yes. I think a stern talking-to and an apology (written or whatever) are enough.

I think calling another parent over this is over the top, but OP mentioned the other girl's mom is her friend, so maybe that's different...in that case it could be more of a "just wanted to be aware that your DD did this, if case u want to handle it a certain way" vs. "have your child fix this damage to my poor innocent child" sort of thing.

I remember my cousin (2 years older) always telling me all those bloody mary stories plus other sorts of things that probably wasn't ok to repeat...plus i was in brownies/girl scouts and ghost stories were the rage. i don't know, i think it'd be hard for a 7yo to always be able accurately determine what's ok and what's not okay to share...especially on a school bus or something where she's under the pressure of other kids. i'm sure some 5 yos would be okay with this type of story, whereas some 8 yos would not be. regardless i'd give a talking to and explaining that some kids can get really frightened of this stuff, tell her things she can say if her other friends tell her to tell the story, etc.

[cvanbrunt]

:yeahthat:
I agree. I'd be embarrassed to make that call!

I think a conversation and apology are sufficient.

:yeahthat:

I can't imagine ever making a call like that and would have a very hard time taking anyone seriously who called me with something like that.

[anonomom]

:yeahthat: Yes. I think a stern talking-to and an apology (written or whatever) are enough.

I think calling another parent over this is over the top, but OP mentioned the other girl's mom is her friend, so maybe that's different...in that case it could be more of a "just wanted to be aware that your DD did this, if case u want to handle it a certain way" vs. "have your child fix this damage to my poor innocent child" sort of thing.

I remember my cousin (2 years older) always telling me all those bloody mary stories plus other sorts of things that probably wasn't ok to repeat...plus i was in brownies/girl scouts and ghost stories were the rage. i don't know, i think it'd be hard for a 7yo to always be able accurately determine what's ok and what's not okay to share...especially on a school bus or something where she's under the pressure of other kids. i'm sure some 5 yos would be okay with this type of story, whereas some 8 yos would not be. regardless i'd give a talking to and explaining that some kids can get really frightened of this stuff, tell her things she can say if her other friends tell her to tell the story, etc.

OP here, and that's my take on the call too. We ended up sitting down with DD and reiterating that there are things she will hear and learn that it is not ok to discuss/pass on to younger kids. We're thinking ahead to other stuff she's likely to hear at school (Santa, Sex, etc). And she will be talking to the littler girl and making it clear the story is made up.

FWIW, as annoyed as I was with DD, I really don't think she told the story with any malice or intention to scare the 5yo. She just lacks common sense at times and the story is all the rage among her classmates right now.

[BunnyBee]

:yeahthat:
I agree. I'd be embarrassed to make that call!

I think a conversation and apology are sufficient.

I agree. Reminds me of A Christmas Story when Ralphie tells his mom his friend taught him the f-word and his mom calls the friend's mom who starts beating the crap out of her kid.

Do you think your DD was telling her same-aged friend and didn't even think about the little sister? My kids use "I forgot" as a catch-all excuse... Really meaning I didn't think it through to the logical conclusion (which of course they can't always because they're 7!).

My DS heard the Bloody Mary story in 1st from another 1st grader. The version he heard was totally crazy and made no sense. It freaked him out a little, but I never would've called the other kid's mom.

[fedoragirl]

Count me in the "distinct minority" camp. I have a DC who is anxious and easily scared but even I would not have made a call for something like this.
My DD is going to come across millions of people before she knows how to handle her emotions or develop or become mature. I certainly can't and will not manage everyone's interactions with her.
What does the OP's friend do when it's her own 2nd grader telling the 5 year old sis' this story?