(Update in #29) Please help me... I am SO tired!

[rolypoly27]

How do I get my 2.5 yo to fall asleep on her own and not wake up several times a night crying for me to put her back to sleep?!

I also have a 4 week old newborn that I am nursing/diapering through the night. So I am having to go back and forth between my newborn and my toddler and cannot get any sleep! I am so sleep-deprived and consequently very irritable, snappy, and just overall unhappy everyday.

The 2 yo has always been very attached to me (even before the baby arrived), so I am the one who has to put her to bed (laying with her for an hour or more until she falls asleep), calm her down when she wakes up crying and screaming in the middle of the night, and come to get her in the morning and get her ready for daycare. When DH tries to help, she screams even more and pushes him out asking for me. And of course the newborn needs me because I am nursing and DH can't do that obviously.

My 2 yo is in full-time daycare during my maternity leave because she loves it there and we didn't want to change her routine with the arrival of the new baby. Plus, I don't think I would be able to handle both kids at home by myself while I am so sleep-deprived. Even so, I'm not able to nap much during the day because I am nursing every 1 to 1.5 hours and the baby wants to be held a lot of the time.

Last night, I was up until 2 am nursing because the baby wouldn't go to sleep, then my toddler woke up crying and screaming as soon as my head hit the pillow at 2 am so I was in her room laying with her until she fell asleep again... I fell asleep in her bed and woke up to come back to my room only to find that I needed to nurse my baby again. And change 3 more poo diapers. And put the toddler back to sleep 3 more times that night. I was literally in my bed for a total of 30 mins last night and I still had to get up in the morning and get her ready for school.

Please help me... I am just SO exhausted. Is it too late to teach a 2.5 yo to fall asleep on her own and put herself back to sleep at night???

eta: sorry if my post is all over the place. I can't think straight enough to type well right now. I just really need some help and don't know who to ask.

[bisous]

Oh you sound so tired. I'm SO sorry. I don't have great advice but just wanted to offer support! I think if it were me I'd try to help the 2.5 yo sleep independently. I'm not sure that you can do it quick enough to benefit you immediately but down the road, when that baby is starting to "STTN" it will be nice to be able to return to full nights of sleep!

How to start? I'm not sure. I think I'd have DH try to work with her. Maybe he can take over the night time routine with her temporarily. I imagine that although she will protest initially and you might even have a few really bad nights, she WILL adjust to that. Then he can work on tapering off the nighttime visits/comforting or even if it isn't you, she might not wake so frequently. But I'm not an expert by any means. I think that's what I'd try.

Good luck!

[sste]

I would also let your DH handle it. Use the same protocol each time -- he does NOT interact with her, he does NOT talk to her except to say "I am going to put you back to bed now" and he marches her gently back to her bed. Any interaction or attention reinforces the getting up behavior. Your presence is reinforcing the waking behavior. Remind yourself this is not a good situation for anyone -- you are tired and it is affecting your health and parenting, your DD is not getting enough sleep. It can be very difficult with a new baby because it is obviously a change for the sibling and the parent always feels a little guilty for the reality that the existing children have less of their attention. But don't let that guilt stop you from implementing a firm and consistent plan! It is best for everyone and if your DH is super-consistent you should see results in less than a week.

Good luck!

[rolypoly27]

Oh you sound so tired. I'm SO sorry. I don't have great advice but just wanted to offer support! I think if it were me I'd try to help the 2.5 yo sleep independently. I'm not sure that you can do it quick enough to benefit you immediately but down the road, when that baby is starting to "STTN" it will be nice to be able to return to full nights of sleep!

How to start? I'm not sure. I think I'd have DH try to work with her. Maybe he can take over the night time routine with her temporarily. I imagine that although she will protest initially and you might even have a few really bad nights, she WILL adjust to that. Then he can work on tapering off the nighttime visits/comforting or even if it isn't you, she might not wake so frequently. But I'm not an expert by any means. I think that's what I'd try.

Good luck!

Thank you for the support. Made me feel better just reading it!

[petesgirl]

My 2 yr old daughter is the same way! I'm getting nervous because we will have a newborn in February. Hope you figure something out!

[rolypoly27]

I would also let your DH handle it. Use the same protocol each time -- he does NOT interact with her, he does NOT talk to her except to say "I am going to put you back to bed now" and he marches her gently back to her bed. Any interaction or attention reinforces the getting up behavior. Your presence is reinforcing the waking behavior. Remind yourself this is not a good situation for anyone -- you are tired and it is affecting your health and parenting, your DD is not getting enough sleep. It can be very difficult with a new baby because it is obviously a change for the sibling and the parent always feels a little guilty for the reality that the existing children have less of their attention. But don't let that guilt stop you from implementing a firm and consistent plan! It is best for everyone and if your DH is super-consistent you should see results in less than a week.

Good luck!

Yes, it's the guilt. I keep thinking it must be a difficult transition for her and that she needs more attention. But you're right. This situation isn't helping anyone. I will try your suggestion tonight! I'll remind DH to be consistent and not show any emotion or get frustrated. It will be rough the next few days but can't be much worse than it has been.

Question -- so do we use the same protocol when we put her to bed for the night? Tuck her in and then leave the room? I usually stay in there until she falls asleep. So we (or just DH) should just leave and then keep taking her back to bed when she comes out? Also, in the middle of the night she is usually crying and screaming in her room. Do we let her cry and wait until she comes to our room to take her back to her room? She's done that before and woken up the baby. Do we carry her if she is kicking and screaming?

[rolypoly27]

My 2 yr old daughter is the same way! I'm getting nervous because we will have a newborn in February. Hope you figure something out!

I wish we would have taken care of her sleep issues before the baby was born. I'm really regretting that now. I didn't want to deal with it while I was pregnant but of course it's so much harder now with a newborn.

It's hard because she doesn't just come to our room and climb into bed or anything. She wakes up crying and screaming every single time and just sits in her room until I go to her.

I'll try to update with our progress.

[amom526]

How do I get my 2.5 yo to fall asleep on her own and not wake up several times a night crying for me to put her back to sleep?!

I also have a 4 week old newborn that I am nursing/diapering through the night. So I am having to go back and forth between my newborn and my toddler and cannot get any sleep! I am so sleep-deprived and consequently very irritable, snappy, and just overall unhappy everyday.

The 2 yo has always been very attached to me (even before the baby arrived), so I am the one who has to put her to bed (laying with her for an hour or more until she falls asleep), calm her down when she wakes up crying and screaming in the middle of the night, and come to get her in the morning and get her ready for daycare. When DH tries to help, she screams even more and pushes him out asking for me. And of course the newborn needs me because I am nursing and DH can't do that obviously.

My 2 yo is in full-time daycare during my maternity leave because she loves it there and we didn't want to change her routine with the arrival of the new baby. Plus, I don't think I would be able to handle both kids at home by myself while I am so sleep-deprived. Even so, I'm not able to nap much during the day because I am nursing every 1 to 1.5 hours and the baby wants to be held a lot of the time.

Last night, I was up until 2 am nursing because the baby wouldn't go to sleep, then my toddler woke up crying and screaming as soon as my head hit the pillow at 2 am so I was in her room laying with her until she fell asleep again... I fell asleep in her bed and woke up to come back to my room only to find that I needed to nurse my baby again. And change 3 more poo diapers. And put the toddler back to sleep 3 more times that night. I was literally in my bed for a total of 30 mins last night and I still had to get up in the morning and get her ready for school.

Please help me... I am just SO exhausted. Is it too late to teach a 2.5 yo to fall asleep on her own and put herself back to sleep at night???

eta: sorry if my post is all over the place. I can't think straight enough to type well right now. I just really need some help and don't know who to ask.

BTDT and it is SO SO hard. waking up with a newborn is hard enough, but when you need to wake up for a toddler and it messes up the rest of your sleep, it is just beyond horrible.

Is this new behavior on the toddlers part? Is she waking up more often since the baby has come? Has she always needed your help to go back to sleep? If she has never been able to fall asleep on her own, she may need some help to get there. This can take a few days or weeks, and you will probably get even less sleep during that time, but hopefully you will see results. At the same time, it is absolutely imperative that you get some sleep. I don't think there is a great solution here - I think you need to start with bedtime though. Most kids wake up in the middle of the night looking for whatever comforts they had when they fell asleep the first time. So if she can only fall asleep at bedtime with you there, she is going to want you in the middle of the night.

I would slowly wean her off of falling asleep with you there. Every couple nights, move further and further away from her bed as she falls asleep.Eventually you can comfort her from right outside the door, etc. You may need to do this in the middle of the night, but soon hopefully it will be a lot easier to comfort her during the night.

I hope this passes soon and you get some rest!! Also as the baby starts sleeping longer stretches, you will be able to get more sleep even if the toddler wakes up, so there is hope!!

[sste]

No, I wouldn't use the same protocol for bedtime -- you can tuck her in, follow your normal routine, and just tell her at the end goodnight, mommy will see you in the MORNING!

On crying and her staying in the room, have you tried waiting it out ever? My DS went through a phase where he would cry for a few minutes, half in his sleep, and then stop if we didn't fully wake him up. If she is really earnestly crying and it doesn't stop in couple of minutes, I would send your DH in, have him pull the covers over her and say gently, "Its time for sleeping now. Good night." and then leave. If she is kicking and screaming, that is harder but I might still try the DH just gently putting her back in multiple times . . . she will probably get tired and just fall asleep after a few goes.

I know it is hard. But no one is saying that you guys aren't going to deal with her upset and confusion over the new sibling transition . . .you just aren't going to deal with it at 11pm, 1am, etc.

Our pedi rec'd this technique to us --both of our kids would get up all night for parental attention. DS actually had DH to the point where DH was having "hang out sessions" with him 3-4 times per night while DH tried to soothe him and at the end (when I finally woke up and realized what was going on), DS actually had convinced DH to let him watch tv!! DD was a super-chubby, 20 month old breastfed baby who was waking me up every 90 minutes to BF when she could easily go 8 hours plus, she just wanted to hang out!

[AngB]

BTDT. DS1 also started sleeping horribly when DS2 came along. We took the opposite approach and decided to let him co-sleep, mostly DS1 and DH in our bed, DS2 and I in the living room at least the first few months while DS2 was in the RnP. (DH snores horribly so I was much better off in the living room anyway, and DH knew I like the newbies to sleep near me.) DS1 sleeps fine now, and was in his own bed until we had preschool issues a few weeks ago. I am a big believer in whatever works to let me get sleep with the least amount of crying, but then I'm not really a fan of sleep training/CIO/etc. and lean more towards attachment-style parenting.

[petesgirl]

I wish we would have taken care of her sleep issues before the baby was born. I'm really regretting that now. I didn't want to deal with it while I was pregnant but of course it's so much harder now with a newborn.

It's hard because she doesn't just come to our room and climb into bed or anything. She wakes up crying and screaming every single time and just sits in her room until I go to her.

I'll try to update with our progress.

Well, we have sleep trained a few times already. It lasts for a few months and then he starts randomly waking up again at night and we can't determine why. Then we train again. I know one thing that has helped my 2 yr get to sleep initially is dimming all house lights at least an hour before bedtime and having a super consistent bedtime routine.

[georgiegirl]

I will write more later, but I'm in a similar situation. 3 week old plus 4 year old who wakes at night plus at 5 am. He's not as bad as your 2 yea told, but he used to be. I will write more later when I can type with 2 hands.

[rolypoly27]

To answer some of the questions...

This is not new behavior as this has been going on pre-baby, but I do think the frequency has increased. In the past, we have let her cry a bit and sometimes she would fall back asleep on her own. This has not happened since the baby was born. She will stay up and cry until she's fully awake.

[Simon]

To answer some of the questions...

This is not new behavior as this has been going on pre-baby, but I do think the frequency has increased. In the past, we have let her cry a bit and sometimes she would fall back asleep on her own. This has not happened since the baby was born. She will stay up and cry until she's fully awake.

Have you ever considered a sleep study or talked to her Ped about the frequent night waking? IMO, by 2.5 yo its important to be sure you've ruled out medical and not just behavioral reasons for nightwaking. We used to think we had a hard to put to sleep infant/toddler/preschooler. But he was still waking at 3.5 yo! And we finally went to an ENT who diagnosed enlarged adenoids. In fact, it was here on the BBB that I even read about it at first. It may not be your problem, but I wanted to mention it. We were already having Dh handle all nightwakings except for the one at 5 am, at that point Ds would just cry until he woke up for the day. The short ending is that surgery solved our problems and it an *almost* instant fix. He slept so much better and is a great sleeper now!

How about 2 yo molars? Have you tried pain meds at bedtime?

We have a nightwaking 18 mo who will also just cry himself awake if we don't help him back to sleep so I feel your pain. The biggest "fix" for his nightwaking was cutting dairy out of his diet. He didn't have any classic symptoms of dairy intolerance but WOW, he sleeps tons better if he doesn't eat any at all (milk, cheese, yogurt, ice cream, etc). Also, he does do better if Dh puts him to bed last (I nurse, sing, and then hand him off). He is also a terrible cosleeper and does badly with me in the room so its a lose-lose situation. For now we're waiting him out and I feel pretty good that it won't be too much longer.

[Kestrel]

What worked for us, strangely enough, was a new baby monitor. We got one that had an intercom feature. When DS would wake, he would call - and we (usually DH) would say something like "everything's fine, if was just the wind (or storm, or the dog, or a bad dream, whatever), go back to sleep"... and he very quickly did much better. We went from 6 or 7 wake-ups a night to maybe two or three a month.

In our case, it turns out DS has exceptionally good hearing, and every storm/wind/broken branch/dog going down the stairs woke him.

[Kestrel]

OH! and don't forget to eat, yourself! I know it's hard, but it will help with the tired, and you're still eating for two if you're nursing!

[echoesofspring]

BTDT, and I'm so sorry - I hope you get some rest soon. It just *hurts* to be that tired.

We have a similar problem. DS isn't a terrible sleeper but he will wake up in the middle of the night, although it's gotten better recently. We had to transition DS out of his crib when DD was about a month old and we've struggled with this ever since, he used to be an outstanding sleeper. Here's what's working for us, hope it helps you:

- DS was turning on his light and playing, so we removed the bulb from the ceiling light.
- We dress him in what seems to be a warmer than necessary, but DH swears that when we don't he wakes up
- If we sense that he's teething *at all* he gets some meds. I'm a prefer not to use meds person, but again, when we don't he wakes up.
- When he wakes up and is clearly not going back to bed DH goes in with him. Even if I'm in DD's room right next door and have just finished nursing her. I've been known to nap on the guest bed/couch while DH is in DS's room so he doesn't see me.If I go in it's a good hour before he's settled again, and often he wakes right back up. If DH goes in it's a song or two and he's asleep.
- Limited his nap to 2.5 hours. This goes against my sleep begets sleep belief, but seems to be helping as well

It's interesting to read about the various medical conditions that could be causing it as well, I would never have known about them except from this board. I'm keeping my eyes open for a possible issue, but right now I really think for us it's just being...2.

[abh5e8]

oh hugs mama....it is SO hard when you cant' get any sleep. we had similar problems, with both DS1 and DS2 nigthwaking. cosleeping gave us a huge improvement. when they wake up now, they just come in and sleep with DH and they stop crying and go right back to sleep. sometimes he moves them back to his bed, sometimes not. dd2 and I sleep in the guestroom. My oldest 3 have all needed more help at night, and cosleeping has definitly gotten us all the most sleep. dd2, she is a wildcard! by far my best sleeper. i think a lot of it is temprement of the child.

[mackmama]

I am so sorry you are so exhausted. Sleep deprivation is just awful. My best advice would be to have your DH take over bedtime. It will be *awful* at first, but I think having the less attached parent do the night routine is worth trying. It was suggested to us when DC was younger (who is now 2.5yo), and it really helped. Good luck, and hang in there.

[georgiegirl]

Id have DH take over her sleep and even co sleep with her.

My DS (4) is a bad sleeper, and now that I have a newborn too I can't handle it. We are getting his tonsils and adenoids out next month and we hope and pray that will solve the problem. (He has large tonsils and often mouth breathes at night.). I'm not sure if I can make it until next month because he wakes me up at night plus he's up for the day at 5 am. We are both horribly sleep deprived.

I think you should also look into medical reasons if she's always been a poor sleeper.

[rolypoly27]

Thanks everyone. Your words of support and advice are very comforting. I feel like we can get through this (hopefully sooner than later). We're going to have DH take over starting tonight and we'll see how it goes. And I'm so sorry a lot of you are going through this as well. Sleep deprivation is awful!

[crayonblue]

Thanks everyone. Your words of support and advice are very comforting. I feel like we can get through this (hopefully sooner than later). We're going to have DH take over starting tonight and we'll see how it goes. And I'm so sorry a lot of you are going through this as well. Sleep deprivation is awful!

Hoping it goes well! DD1 was like that...only wanted me, pushed DH away, wouldn't sleep. We finally did massive screaming sleep training. It worked. DH and DD1 got closer. Funny how that works!

[TxCat]

:hug:BTDT

So, DD1 has always been a poor sleeper and we have had to intermittently sleep train her - she's good for a while, then doesn't sleep, then we retrain, etc. And she usually wanted me over DH. So, this spring we started training her to accept DH more, starting with the bedtime routine first. What worked for us was my leaving the house while DH put DD1 to bed - she behaved better if I wasn't there at all. So maybe take your newborn for a long walk during bedtime. We also emphasized to DD1 that my pregnancy and my postpartum/post-c-section recovery means that I can't put DD1 to bed, sleep in her bed, etc. this has helped her get used to the change as well. Night weaklings have lessened this week for whatever reason, but as a PP recommended, do not engage the toddler - this rewards the behavior!

Now if I could only get my 5-week old to sleep somewhere else besides ON me!

[khalloc]

We had a long stretch of our DD not sleeping thru the night. What finally worked was handing out "surprises" in the morning if she stayed in her bed all night. Just Dollar Store toys and we slowly phased them out and she didnt really notice. If she did we brought them back or it took more nights in a row in order to earn a surprise. Not sure if that would work with a 2 year old, but it did help us.

[AngB]

Now if I could only get my 5-week old to sleep somewhere else besides ON me!

DS2 has a double ear infection and we are having this same problem again though he's 10 months! If you don't already have a RNP, that is what worked the best for DS1, he easily accepted it and stayed asleep in it. DS2 hasn't been quite that easy with it but he did sleep better in it then he would have in a flat crib or bassinet.

[TxCat]

DS2 has a double ear infection and we are having this same problem again though he's 10 months! If you don't already have a RNP, that is what worked the best for DS1, he easily accepted it and stayed asleep in it. DS2 hasn't been quite that easy with it but he did sleep better in it then he would have in a flat crib or bassinet.

We do have a RnP, but DD2 wakes up about 70% of the time when I put her in it -sooo frustrating! I'm loving the snuggles, but we can't cosleep long-term because 1) I have to go back to work at 12 weeks and I occasionally work nights and DH will NOT cosleep and 2) DH eventually wants to move back into his bed and he will NOT cosleep. She also won't take any pacifier and I've tried every one out there. But, if I let her cosleep, she can sleep in up to 3-5 hr stretches at night! Sigh...

[Pilotbaby]

At that age, I would start with your pediatrician just to make sure everything is ok. However, it could just be behavioral as it sounds like she has never learned to fall asleep on her own. We did a version of what someone else mentioned earlier in the thread where you sit by the crib and comfort and as they stop crying over time, move farther and farther away. Not ideal to do this now with a newborn too so your hubby will probably have to play a significant role. There is a great sleep lady named Kim West. If you have a minute, check out her website and facebook page. Her staff will answer questions if you post on her facebook wall and she will have some specific tips for a 2.5 year old. Hope you get some rest soon and good luck to you!

[123LuckyMom]

How's it going, OP? I know how it feels to be THAT tired, and I'm just hoping you're getting some rest!

[rolypoly27]

Update:

I can finally do an update now that I'm sitting at a computer and not on my phone.

The past few nights have been better. The first night, we tried the method where DH would put her back in her room every time she came out. I locked myself in my room and hid from her so she wouldn't attach to me. As soon as he put her back in, she came out kicking and screaming at the top of her lungs. She came to my door pounding and begging for me. It was awful to listen to but I had expected it. So, DH lasted 10 mins of that before he said he couldn't do it anymore lol. He said to leave it up to him and he'll try his own method and told me not to worry. He ended up staying with her in her room until she fell asleep. This was still a big step for us because she had actually let DH put her to sleep. So, in the middle of the night, she woke up crying and we were so knocked out that we didn't hear her at first. She came into our room crying very loudly. DH woke up but was half asleep so he just sat there and didn't do much expect to try to plead with her to go back to sleep. She wouldn't go back with him and only wanted me. I was so tired and didn't want a fight so I went back with her and laid with her in her bed. I was so disappointed and frustrated and cried myself to sleep in her room.

So after the first night, we started doing a new bedtime routine where DH would do books, then I would go in and pat her a bit and snuggle with her for a few minutes. Then DH would come back in and stay with her until she fell asleep. She protested at first, but she has been going down easily the past couple of nights with only DH in her room. This helps me immensely because I am free to nurse the baby and clean the kitchen, prep for the next day, etc. She woke up in the middle of the night screaming for mommy and DH had to go in and restrain her in the bed since she was trying to come to me (and wake the baby in the process). She still wakes up in the middle of the night but the crying is getting less and less since she knows DH will go in there and soothe her (not mommy). DH usually falls asleep in her bed until the morning. And since he's been sleeping in her room the last couple of mornings, he's been able to get her ready in the morning so that I can get an extra hour of sleep.

I can't call it a complete success because she apparently cannot put herself back to sleep when she wakes up at night and we were not able to "train" her to do so. But I feel like we've made good progress towards her accepting DH more and being less attached me. I've noticed that she actually asks for him for other things during the day too, instead of wanting mommy all the time. DH is probably getting less sleep because he is taking on more nighttime duties. But DD and I are getting more sleep with less night interruptions. We don't have a complete cure, but it's working for us now. I will talk to the pediatrician at our next visit about other options we can explore.

[bisous]

Glad for the update! This seems to be working well for your family. Sounds like everyone is getting more rest. That is actually a rather quick adjustment on the part of your DD. She might not be so difficult to "train" as you might think!