At wit's end with bed time UPDATED POST 13

[candaceb]

DS is newly 3. He learned to climb out of his crib in about May, but wanted the crib side left up so we left it up until one night when I found him half asleep teetering on top of the rail, so we took it off in early July. I was ready to re-do his room anyway, so we moved him to a big boy bed in August. We have been sliding down a slippery slope of awful bedtimes, and it has gotten worse. He hasn't taken regular naps since sometime early last spring (March?) when he would take forever to fall asleep in the afternoon, and then would be running around the house at 9:30 at night. Most days, I try really hard to not let him fall asleep when we are in the car or the stroller because anytime he gets a nap, he is up until past 9:00 and clearly not tired. He mostly sleeps through the night - wakes early in the morning a couple of days a week and I tell him it's not time to get up yet, rock him for a couple of minutes, and then he will almost always go back to sleep until normal wake-up time, which is supposed to be around 7AM. When he used to go to bed at 8, he would wake up at 7 reliably.

Bedtimes right now go just fine until I get to the point of tucking him into bed. He has a bath every other night, put on pj's, take meds and brush teeth and then go into his bed and read 3 stories and he always talks me into 1 more. Then we rock in the rocking chair for a few minutes and I put him in bed. He is always sleepy at this point - leaning against me for stories and seeming ready for bed. Then the fun begins. As soon as I close the door, he is up. He runs into my office, and then as I get up, he races back to his bed. If I sit outside his room, he opens the door and then dashes over me. If I hold the door closed, he fights me until I can't hold the door any more. We put up a gate and he climbed over it. We moved the gate higher and he climbed under it. He gets a glint in his eye and he just loves the game. I tried taking away his 5:00 TV time (the only time he gets to watch his beloved Fireman Sam and Mighty Machines) after 2 escapes, and that worked for about a week. I tried putting up a sticker chart on his door and telling him that if he got 5 stickers he could have a fire engine that he picked out at the toy store a while ago (just a $5 thing). He has no stickers on his chart. I tried offering him a gummy worm in the morning for any night he went to bed without problems. That stopped working after about a week. The only thing that seems to break this cycle at this point is making him cry. Either he eventually hurts himself during his antics, or one night I started crying and then he started crying. Tonight I screamed in his face (not my proudest moment) and he started crying and then he wanted to be rocked again and went to bed after that. This is not good. HELP! I have even consulted supernanny - I got the book out of the library and her methods don't seem to have any affect on my child.

I have tried moving bedtime up a half hour this week, and it doesn't seem to reduce the amount of time that the antics go on, but it does mean that he is in bed earlier in the end. I may try to move it up another half an hour but it's going to be a stretch with our usual dinner schedule - at this point I will do whatever it takes though.

Any suggestions???

[Mrs.Skeeter]

Here is what worked for us and our 3yo, but you may find is not the solution for you... we removed all toys from his room. There is a bed with the usual blankets and pillows and an empty night stand, nothing else. At bedtime he gets one small toy (think matchbox car). Then we tuck him in, give kisses etc, and say goodnight. We turned his door knob around so we closed the door then locked it from the outside. Then we mostly ignore him. We did get him up for potty breaks but not usually for anything else. After he went to sleep we unlocked and opened his door. It took a few days for him to get the routine. His room shares a wall with our living space, so now we close the door at bedtime without locking it. He rarely gets out of bed anymore, but will often talk or play quietly for 30-60 minutes in his bed.

[petesgirl]

Well, all I can say is you are not alone!! We are dealing with the exact same issues. I like how you said he enjoys the 'game' of it- that is totally my DS and it is frustrating to no end. And I have also yelled at him several times this week... Mommy guilt. :(

[Momit]

DS has been a good sleeper for the most part, but we did have a rough spot around that age when he moved from a crib to a bed. The freedom of getting up and wandering around was so exciting to him he had a terrible time staying in bed and we would often find him asleep on the floor in the hall, our room, his room, wherever.

I recently read the book Peaceful Parent, Happy Kids and they had a different take on bedtime. Basically that a child who draws out bedtime by getting up, wanting "one more" drink or story, etc. is having trouble separating from you. As much as parents look forward to bedtime because they will have the evening to themselves, to kids it's the awful time when they are left alone. I skimmed over the section, but I believe what they suggest is 10 minutes of quality/snuggle time after lights out to assure the child of your connection with him/her. Totally anti sleep training, I know, but it might be worth trying. The Aha! Parenting website is supposed to have more info on making bedtime smoother.

Also maybe a picture chart showing the steps for bedtime to help the routine flow smoothly?

[joonbug]

When DD was 3, we had to hang out at her bedside until she fell alseep, there was no power to prevent her from leaving her bed, we did it for close to a year, just sitting next to her with the Ipad and reminding her to lay down, be quiet etc. she had no toys in her room but would play with the pillow, roll around with the blanket etc. She was done with her naps around 3y2m and it got a bit better, she was just tired so would fall asleep quicker, 30-60 minutes instead of 2+ hours (some nights she d fight sleep till past 11 pm!). Her bedtime never was later than 8.30, with no naps closer to 8. Her starting preschool was life saving lol, she was just too tired at bedtime and it became gradually easier. Shortly before her 4th bday, we got the sleep training clock and it worked like a charm. From day 1 she knew that when it turned blue, mommy or daddy leaves the room and it's time to sleep. Yes, she still plays sometimes a bit before falling asleep but as long as she stays in bed and lays down, it s ok. The clock helped with her night waking as well, she still wakes up and comes to our bed in the middle of the night but at least it's 3-4 am instead of midnight (or earlier!). Now I say she is a great sleeper, lights out is 7.15 and she's usually sleeping by 7.30 -8 the latest but it took is a very long time to get here! And she just was not ready to sleep train earlier...

[candaceb]

I recently read the book Peaceful Parent, Happy Kids and they had a different take on bedtime. Basically that a child who draws out bedtime by getting up, wanting "one more" drink or story, etc. is having trouble separating from you. As much as parents look forward to bedtime because they will have the evening to themselves, to kids it's the awful time when they are left alone. I skimmed over the section, but I believe what they suggest is 10 minutes of quality/snuggle time after lights out to assure the child of your connection with him/her. Totally anti sleep training, I know, but it might be worth trying. The Aha! Parenting website is supposed to have more info on making bedtime smoother.

I think you hit the nail on the head. My niece has been having problems with kindergarten dropoff and I told my SIL the other day that the only time Miles has separation anxiety is at bedtime. AND we haven't had many bedtime babysitters lately, but when we did a couple of weeks ago, he went to bed without a peep for her. I think that since I wasn't there, there was no point to his game.
DH is absolutely useless. (in general, and at bedtime, but that's for the BP). So it's all on me.

Thanks for all the input so far - off to check out that book on Amazon - I was not proud of my non-peaceful parenting moment last night.

[elephantmeg]

we did a doorknob cover on the inside of the door and then just ignored him/them. The room was safe, they were safe, the game was over

[ECUPirateMom]

check out the Door Monkey on amazon.com...BEST INVENTION EVER!!!

Sent from my SGH-T989

[Philly Mom]

we did a doorknob cover on the inside of the door and then just ignored him/them. The room was safe, they were safe, the game was over

Which one did you use?

[BabyBearsMom]

That sounds really tough! We only had brief issues with DD1, but I think they were brief because we didn't let it become a fun game. If she got out of her bed, I didn't say a word to her. I just picked her up, walked calmly back to her room, put her back in her bed, and walked out. Once she realized that getting out of bed wasn't very fun, she stopped.

[BabbyO]

I recently read the book Peaceful Parent, Happy Kids and they had a different take on bedtime. Basically that a child who draws out bedtime by getting up, wanting "one more" drink or story, etc. is having trouble separating from you. As much as parents look forward to bedtime because they will have the evening to themselves, to kids it's the awful time when they are left alone. I skimmed over the section, but I believe what they suggest is 10 minutes of quality/snuggle time after lights out to assure the child of your connection with him/her. Totally anti sleep training, I know, but it might be worth trying. The Aha! Parenting website is supposed to have more info on making bedtime smoother.

Also maybe a picture chart showing the steps for bedtime to help the routine flow smoothly?

Wow...I think I now understand what has been happening at bedtime for just over a year now....and why it is worse with me than with DH. The kids see DH more than they see me....maybe I need to put the dishes down and really play with my kiddos for a bit before bedtime. I wonder if it will help prevent Stachio from prolonging bedtime! Thanks for the insight!

[elephantmeg]

we used something like this
http://www.pottytrainingconcepts.com/MH-60201.html?gclid=CLiRl97Lx7kCFeY7OgodSDEAUQ

[candaceb]

Just wanted to update this thread after a couple of weeks...

Thanks to ECUPirateMom's suggestion of the door monkey, bedtime drama has been significantly shortened. Just the threat of putting it on helps to keep him in bed. I give him 3 chances - 2 escapes, plus one trip to the potty. After that, the door monkey goes on. He screams and cries and carries on "I'm trapped, take it off, you trapped me, etc." I eventually go in there and rock him for a minute and then he goes to bed. Most nights that's the end of it, some nights we have one more round.

I tried the staying in bed for 10 more minutes thing and he doesn't want me in his bed. If I lie down with him, he treats me as a jungle gym and climbs all over me, or else tells me to leave. I am on the list at the library for the Peaceful Parenting book because I still think it could be helpful.

Door knob covers wouldn't work for us because we have lever-style doors and he knows how to open the kid-safe version. I was thinking about putting a lockable bathroom door knob backwards on his door, but it seemed like overkill for what is hopefully a temporary problem. I have secured the exterior doors with flip-locks so even if he is out of his room in the middle of the night he is not going to get outside. And as far as I know, if he does leave his room, he comes to our room.

He now has 2 stickers on his sticker chart, and earned another one tonight, so we are making progress. I hope.

here's a link to the door monkey:
http://www.amazon.com/Childproof-Door-Lock-Pinch-Guard/dp/B004ECJWK4/ref=sr_1_1?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1379898315&sr=1-1&keywords=door+monkey

[petesgirl]

So how is the door monkey different than just locking the door (DH already switched our knob so there is a lock on the outside but I haven't had the heart to lock ds in yet)? It looks like from the picture on Amazon that it holds the door open a tiny crack but still 'locks' it? It is easy to remove to get back in the room, in the case of a fire?

[NCGrandma]

No ideas about bedtime challenges but some comments about the door monkey: it's great IF your door and door frame are the right size. I think their website has the specs. (Don't make the mistake I made by measuring one door and assuming all the rest are the same size...)

If the door monkey does fit, it's very easy to set up and remove, as well as to open and close. When you close the door, it stays slightly ajar.

When my family visited, the door monkey kept 2 y.o. DGD2 out of places while being easy for 9 y.o. DGD1 to open.

[candaceb]

So how is the door monkey different than just locking the door (DH already switched our knob so there is a lock on the outside but I haven't had the heart to lock ds in yet)? It looks like from the picture on Amazon that it holds the door open a tiny crack but still 'locks' it? It is easy to remove to get back in the room, in the case of a fire?

It is just a matter of grabbing the hook to get the door open. It does hold the door open a crack. If you've already switched the knob, I don't know that there's an advantage to it, but I was hoping not to have to go buy a new door knob and then wait 3 years for DH to install it. The door monkey takes 2 seconds to install - it just slides on to the door.