Article:American Schools are failing non-conformist kids

[maestramommy]

Wondered if anyone has seen this yet, and any thoughts.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114527/self-regulation-american-schools-are-failing-nonconformist-kids

As I shared on my FB, I was reassured that only 1/3 of the kids in the marshmallow study actually passed, I've never read that stat. I am pretty sure only DD1 would have a chance at passing, and only if she didn't decide two marshmallows had too much sugar!

[elliput]

You beat me to it by mere minutes! I was just about to post this also. :)

[queenmama]

I'm all the more appreciative of my son's school. He's very much a conformist, but a few of his classmates are not. One teacher, in particular, impressed me when, in first grade, she allowed the "busy bodies" to stand at their desks to work, so long as they weren't being disruptive.

Lara

[bisous]

The article is well written. I like some of it but I disagree with a lot of it. Maybe it is because I do tend to put value on the "character is destiny" model for lifetime success? I have a quirky kid. He did not do well in school as a K'er. I homeschooled him for two years. He is now in public school and doing fine. But he will always struggle and part of the reason that he is in school is that I do value being able to sit still and I feel that *for him* he needs to struggle against the constraints of the public model. Honestly, that is the PRIMARY reason that I am not homeschooling him anymore. He may not be good at conformity, it may be a tough model for him but it is what our world is built on and I want him to fit it. I don't want to suppress him. I do want him to learn the skills that will help him be successful in the "real world". I feel like I was lucky. I was able to devote incredible resources to overcoming the traditional school model/quirky kid gap. I don't feel like his creativity is being stifled. I do feel like school is harder for him than it is for his brother who is the classic "marshmallow" kid or "dandelion" to quote two paradigms from the article. But I think the stuff that makes DS1 if it is carefully shaped in this REAL world will serve him well. I believe in grit. I try to teach it at home which is (I think) a bigger influence than school. I give him gobs of free time and lots of emotional support at home.

[maestramommy]

I think the biggest thing that jumped out at me was not that schools value conformist kids, but that kids who are "non-conformist" are prematurely labelled as having something wrong with them, suggest that they be tested, get therapies. I never thought about it, but the writer talks about, "It's not your fault, it's just the way you are," as being something terrible to tell a kid, that they will always feel like there is something wrong with them.

[JustMe]

I don't know, I read the article when I was really tired and skimmed through some of it, but I feel like there could be more of a happy medium than the author allows for. I do not see anything wrong with having a child work on skills (including self-regulation skills) and think the message should be that all have something they are working on, not that there is something wrong with you. Having had a child who did OT, it was a hardly a punishment, something that made her feel weird, etc. It was lots of fun and my other child was jealous.

Again, I am really tired so I may have misunderstood something.

Neither of my kids could pass the marshmallow study, btw.

[fedoragirl]

I'm all the more appreciative of my son's school. He's very much a conformist, but a few of his classmates are not. One teacher, in particular, impressed me when, in first grade, she allowed the "busy bodies" to stand at their desks to work, so long as they weren't being disruptive.

Lara

I haven't read the article yet but wanted to comment on this. As a former teacher of middle/high school students, I tried to work with them and create a happy medium but administration was having none of it. I will never forget the time when the principal burst into my room and reprimanded me in front of my students for allowing some students to listen to their ipods while they wrote their essays.
I'll comment further once I've read the article.

[queenmama]

My error is bugging me. The teacher wasn't in first grade; it was Henry's first grade year! :p

I couldn't let it go (YES, I hate myself and my pedantry!).

Lara

[AnnieW625]

That was a really great article.

If the author had surveyed more kids in traditional public schools I think she might have found something different. The only other children mentioned in the article were in Oakland and Seattle. The child in Oakland probably did not attend public school unless he lived in maybe two or three very well thought of public schools in the city, but most like a plethora of one of the many non sectarian schools or artsy free thinking elementary schools or k-12 schools in the city. On the flip side I find it extremely irritating that every boy who was in one of those other two examples schools had already been referred for treatment of probably a real non issue. IMHO I think the said school needs to hire better teachers or rethink their correcting of children policy.

I actually think that while conformity can be important and children following rules in a classroom is important I don't think labeling a child who has out of the box ideas or silly questions that might embarrass oneself should have the label of conformist or non conformist.

Written by a former student who was big on following rules and completing assignments on time, but I was also that same kid who asked a million dumb questions of which probably 98% of them in some way embarrassed myself. I would have confirmed to every rule, but I would have for sure eaten those marshmallows.

[megs4413]

I may just be completely missing the point since my kids were born "conformists" or what I call "compliant." But, are we now labeling bad behavior as "non-conformity" that should be embraced and encouraged? I don't get it. I mean the example of the cross-legged sitting seemed wildly over-blown on the part of the school and I definitely agree that schools can and should allow a little bit of latitude in those kinds of things, but the examples from the author's child that she didn't raise her hand to speak or sit and listen, distracted the teacher....those are things that need to be corrected, IMO. We all have to conform to get along in this world in one way or another. What's the harm in that?

[larig]

I may just be completely missing the point since my kids were born "conformists" or what I call "compliant." But, are we now labeling bad behavior as "non-conformity" that should be embraced and encouraged? I don't get it. I mean the example of the cross-legged sitting seemed wildly over-blown on the part of the school and I definitely agree that schools can and should allow a little bit of latitude in those kinds of things, but the examples from the author's child that she didn't raise her hand to speak or sit and listen, distracted the teacher....those are things that need to be corrected, IMO. We all have to conform to get along in this world in one way or another. What's the harm in that?

That Seattle story did not ring true with me. Our kiddo has lots of issues with "conformity" and we've been more than pleased with the way they've handled it. He has many many accommodations. ETA: and we've not paid a cent for screenings to get services from them.

[o_mom]

I don't get it. I mean the example of the cross-legged sitting seemed wildly over-blown on the part of the school and I definitely agree that schools can and should allow a little bit of latitude in those kinds of things, but the examples from the author's child that she didn't raise her hand to speak or sit and listen, distracted the teacher....those are things that need to be corrected, IMO.

She didn't say that that didn't need corrected, but that when they asked the teacher if he had corrected her, his answer was no. Instead of correcting it, he suggested that she had a disorder requiring therapy.

Personally, I thought the article was all over the place and didn't give a coherent argument. I think some of the point was that while some kids do have disorders that mean they are unable to follow rules, etc., there are many who do not, but are labeled as such. If you say it is a disorder and they internalize that, it may be a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts and they see themselves as defective. I didn't really get what she thought *should* happen - that they should just follow the regular discipline of the classroom or that they should be allowed to do whatever they wanted?

[HannaAddict]

That Seattle story did not ring true with me. Our kiddo has lots of issues with "conformity" and we've been more than pleased with the way they've handled it. He has many many accommodations. ETA: and we've not paid a cent for screenings to get services from them.

It rang true to me, I guess I assumed it was a private school as a doctor's kid and note home versus a public school doing screening. At our private school and friends' private schools, this article rings incredibly true. I'd never seen classrooms with so many fidgets in my life until my oldest started kindergarten! There were none at his preschool. I'm continually amazed at how many fine or normal kids have had evaluations and "interventions" when they seem totally fine.

[larig]

It rang true to me, I guess I assumed it was a private school as a doctor's kid and note home versus a public school doing screening. At our private school and friends' private schools, this article rings incredibly true. I'd never seen classrooms with so many fidgets in my life until my oldest started kindergarten! There were none at his preschool. I'm continually amazed at how many fine or normal kids have had evaluations and "interventions" when they seem totally fine.

I can see that happening at private, but I just assumed she was talking public, since she was writing about the american education system. I consider private outside the system, given they have way more latitude to NOT follow state mandates, etc. ETA: DS is in our neighborhood public school here.

[o_mom]

I can see that happening at private, but I just assumed she was talking public, since she was writing about the american education system. I consider private outside the system, given they have way more latitude to NOT follow state mandates, etc. ETA: DS is in our neighborhood public school here.

I think it was private too, since no public school I know would send a note home suggesting the child be tested. If they suspect a learning disability, they are required to test for it and they would not want that record. I do agree with you, though, that the private schools are not representative of the American education system and that makes a bad example for her point (although, as I said, I'm not exactly sure what her point is).

[AnnieW625]

I think it was private too, since no public school I know would send a note home suggesting the child be tested. If they suspect a learning disability, they are required to test for it and they would not want that record. I do agree with you, though, that the private schools are not representative of the American education system and that makes a bad example for her point (although, as I said, I'm not exactly sure what her point is).

Granted I was in high school in the 1990s (91-95) but my parents wanted to get me tested because since second grade my standardized test scores were between 40-60% and my grades were generally As-Bs for liberal arts subjects, and Cs-Ds for math (with summer school to get it up to a B or C). The counselor I had my sophomore year flat out told my parents my grades were too good (3.50 average) and I was of the wrong ethnicity to be tested (meaning I would have been tested if I were Hispanic or black, not white). I ended up getting tested at the beginning of my senior the fall after I had failed my SATs (670 combined). It would have been nice to know my issues or get additional time to take the test had I known that sooner.