s/o: keep vs. toss

[AnnieW625]

What is your MO in regards to keeping or tossing food?

In general I usually keep food left out overnight or what not unless it smells rancid. I always reheat a bit and taste and put the rest in the fridge until I know for sure it will be kept or tossed.

(and yes there are only two choices;))

[brittone2]

Well, I'm not one to think that heating reliably kills off everything. That's my main issue with that advice. It probably works for a lot of things, but it doesn't reliably work for everything.
http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/facts.html#howcontamination

from the link above:
Microbes are killed by heat.



If food is heated to an internal temperature above 160oF, or 78oC, for even a few seconds this sufficient to kill parasites, viruses or bacteria, except for the Clostridium (http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/botulism/) bacteria, which produce a heat-resistant form called a spore.

Clostridium spores are killed only at temperatures above boiling. This is why canned foods must be cooked to a high temperature under pressure as part of the canning process.


The toxins produced by bacteria vary in their sensitivity to heat.

The staphylococcal (http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/staphylococcal/) toxin which causes vomiting is not inactivated even if it is boiled.
Fortunately, the potent toxin that causes botulism (http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/botulism/) is completely inactivated by boiling.



I think the staph concern is mostly from food handled by someone who was sick with it, so not necessarily as big of an issue at home with leftovers if no one is sick.

[JBaxter]

I've never tossed anything I left out overnight. My mother never did either I've never had an issue.

[crl]

I am generally a toss it girl. Dh is adamant that he would always toss stuff. (Very, very, very nasty illness when deployed to Thailand that he believes was caused by food/water--nasty as in the other person they thought had the same thing came back to the US in a coma and was still in a coma six months later which was the last dh ever heard--and he is much more susceptible to stomach things now maybe as a consequence). So I figure we can afford new food and I will toss anything that is suspect.

Catherine

[TwinFoxes]

Well, I'm not one to think that heating reliably kills off everything. That's my main issue with that advice. It probably works for a lot of things, but it doesn't reliably work for everything.
http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/facts.html#howcontamination

from the link above:
Microbes are killed by heat.



If food is heated to an internal temperature above 160oF, or 78oC, for even a few seconds this sufficient to kill parasites, viruses or bacteria, except for the Clostridium (http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/botulism/) bacteria, which produce a heat-resistant form called a spore.

Clostridium spores are killed only at temperatures above boiling. This is why canned foods must be cooked to a high temperature under pressure as part of the canning process.


The toxins produced by bacteria vary in their sensitivity to heat.

The staphylococcal (http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/staphylococcal/) toxin which causes vomiting is not inactivated even if it is boiled.
Fortunately, the potent toxin that causes botulism (http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/botulism/) is completely inactivated by boiling.



I think the staph concern is mostly from food handled by someone who was sick with it, so not necessarily as big of an issue at home with leftovers if no one is sick.



To me this says pretty much everything is killed by boiling. If there's staph in your kitchen the chili isn't your only issue. And this is what the link says about clostridium
What kind of germ is Clostridium botulinum?


Clostridium botulinum is the name of a group of bacteria. They can be found in soil. These rod-shaped organisms grow best in low oxygen conditions. The bacteria form spores which allow them to survive in a dormant state until exposed to conditions that can support their growth. There are seven types of botulism toxin designated by the letters A through G; only types A, B, E and F cause illness in humans.

How common is botulism?

In the United States, an average of 145 cases are reported each year.Of these, approximately 15% are foodborne, 65% are infant botulism, and 20% are wound. Adult intestinal colonization and iatrogenic botulism also occur, but rarely.

I'll play the odds and keep boiling and enjoying my chili. :)

[sanja973]

I would also consider temperature in the house. In the winter I would check taste and probably keep it, while in sumer if it is left outside more than 3-4 hours toss it.

[specialp]

Toss.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I got very ill from a soup that was left out overnight and then reheated. My (now DH) then BF tasted a small bowl, said it was fine, and then left to go to his home. I ate a larger bowl and later that night, I began the vomiting marathon that lasted for days, got dehydrated, the whole shebang. This has been 14 years ago and I still hold it up as the sickest I have ever been and ironically, the thinnest I have ever been. It was my 2nd experience with FP, but the worst of the two. Food poisoning vomiting is so forceful and violent and my stomach muscles were sore forever, but looked great (joke, but I was really thin for a while after that)! FWIW, DH did end up sick the next day with diarrhea so I have no idea if it was that I ate more than him or if my system said, "Oh hell no!" from the beginning and his just didn't have that initial violent reaction.

ETA: First FP experience was when I was 8 and my sister and I ate a dairy product that was bad.

[brittone2]

To me this says pretty much everything is killed by boiling. If there's staph in your kitchen the chili isn't your only issue. And this is what the link says about clostridium
What kind of germ is Clostridium botulinum?


Clostridium botulinum is the name of a group of bacteria. They can be found in soil. These rod-shaped organisms grow best in low oxygen conditions. The bacteria form spores which allow them to survive in a dormant state until exposed to conditions that can support their growth. There are seven types of botulism toxin designated by the letters A through G; only types A, B, E and F cause illness in humans.

How common is botulism?

In the United States, an average of 145 cases are reported each year.Of these, approximately 15% are foodborne, 65% are infant botulism, and 20% are wound. Adult intestinal colonization and iatrogenic botulism also occur, but rarely.

I'll play the odds and keep boiling and enjoying my chili. :)

I am pretty sure there are other bacteria besides those mentioned in the CDC link. I just linked to that one quickly, but there have been on other threads on this in the past.
This mentions bacillus cereus. That one dwells in "soil" too but the link below mentions it can be found in food left out too long. They cite rice as an example (mentioning that as I've seen people here who say they'd eat things other than meat left out all night, and i know i've read that can cause food borne illness...it doesn't have to be a meat product)
http://www.foodsafety.gov/poisoning/causes/bacteriaviruses/bcereus/

http://www.foodsafety.gov/poisoning/causes/bacteriaviruses/bcereus/

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09300.html

Clostridium Perfringens Food-Borne Illness (from link above)

Clostridium perfringens belong to the same genus as the botulinum organism. However, the disease produced by C. perfringens is not as severe as botulism and few deaths have occurred. Spores are found in soil, nonpotable water, unprocessed foods and the intestinal tract of animals and humans. Meat and poultry are frequently contaminated with these spores from one or more sources during processing.

Spores of some strains are so heat resistant that they survive boiling for four or more hours. Furthermore, cooking drives off oxygen, kills competitive organisms and heat-shocks the spores, all of which promote germination.

Once the spores have germinated, a warm, moist, protein-rich environment with little or no oxygen is necessary for growth. If such conditions exist (i.e., holding meats at warm room temperature for several hours or cooling large pots of gravy or meat too slowly in the refrigerator), sufficient numbers of vegetative cells may be produced to cause illness. Foods commonly involved in C. perfringens illness include cooked, cooled, or reheated meats, poultry, stews, meat pies, casseroles, and gravies.

It sounds like the chili example of the OP would be a good place for that to thrive. I have no idea how rare or common it is, but even extensive boiling doesn't seem to offer a guarantee of killing off the toxins.

I had salmonella from some WFs tahini a few years ago (a week or two after my illness a recall went up. This was during the peanut butter recalls. I had eaten some tahini from a brand new jar that night, and I was the only one in my house to get sick. I started with symptoms within hours of consuming it, and was sick with GI stuff for 6-7 days. It was pure hell, and I probably should have been hospitalized. I had a newborn and really wanted to remain at home, so I managed to stay hydrated enough to stay out of the ER, but it was one of the worst experiences of my life). I am firmly in the toss camp most of the time, because I never, ever want a repeat of my experience.

[georgiegirl]

When in doubt, throw it out. That's my motto. I despise puke.

[nfceagles]

I find the worrying about each bite prevents me from enjoying it anyway, so I toss it. Especially after having kids. The thought of needlessly having to deal with puking kids while being that sick myself is more than I can bear. My DH, then BF, got very sick from something I left out over night. I realized it in the morning, but didn't have time to clean it up. Didn't want it to stink up the kitchen so I threw it in the fridge. He beat me home that night and didn't know it had been left out. He heated it up and had a bowl before I got home. I did NOT have a bowl and hoped mightily that he would be ok. He was SO SICK.

[okinawama]

When in doubt, throw it out. That's my motto. I despise puke.
This is my view too. I hate puking, but I would feel totally awful if I gave my little boys food poisoning to save a few bucks. So, if there's ever a question on whether or not it's safe, we always err on the side of caution and throw it out.

[rin]

I'm a keeper.

I have to admit that some of the things people say they'd throw out are bewildering to me, like produce with bad spots or a gallon of milk that smells ok but sat out overnight.

I have traveled in developing countries, and do not take food safety lightly. That said, the refrigerator is not some magical bacteria-killing place that is categorically different from the rest of a deadly bacteria-infested house. Bacteria grow faster in warmer temperatures, and things go bad *faster* at room temperatures, but it doesn't mean that they go bad immediately. Many foods will also clearly indicate if they have gone bad (e.g. milk), or the spoiled parts can easily be removed (mold on cheese, rotten spots in vegetables).

I pretty much follow the same food handling practices my mom & grandma always have (actually, I am slightly more cautious than my mother, who I just found out always used eggs that had come cracked in the carton). I figure we all either have freakishly good immune systems, are scary lucky, or else the odds are in our favor.

[TwinFoxes]

BTW, I'm so making chili this week thanks to this thread! Perfect for brisk fall weather.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I'm almost always a keeper. I hate the idea of all the food wasted when it doesn't need to be. I totally don't get questioning "best by" dates and such. Open it, smell it, look at it and go from there. We also tend to cook dinner at 6 and not get the leftovers away til 11. Over the years, we've probably "toughened up" some wrt bacteria exposure b

[HannaAddict]

The ground beef is the big reason to throw this out and the pathogens found in ground need these days. Produce with a spot, moldy cheese, not the same thing at all and not the same risk at all.

[crl]

The ground beef is the big reason to throw this out and the pathogens found in ground need these days. Produce with a spot, moldy cheese, not the same thing at all and not the same risk at all.

I agree. Produce I will cut off parts, etc. Diary I go by smell and looks. But questionable meat is an immediate toss for me.

Catherine

[specialp]

The ground beef is the big reason to throw this out and the pathogens found in ground need these days. Produce with a spot, moldy cheese, not the same thing at all and not the same risk at all.


I agree. Produce I will cut off parts, etc. Diary I go by smell and looks. But questionable meat is an immediate toss for me.

Catherine

:yeahthat: All of the above. I rarely throw anything out, have no problem with removing bad parts or using past expiration dates, but meat that is questionable, either because it has been on the counter from afternoon to the next morning or feels/looks/smells off gets tossed asap.

[mackmama]

If I have to ask, I toss. :)


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[Melaine]

I toss! Although I am fine with cutting moldy parts of cheese or even fruit off sometimes. Meat is a totally different story.

[khm]

Yeah, meat I get squicky about. I'm pretty loosey goosey otherwise, I'm totally not a germophobe.

I hate puke and I'd be unable to enjoy even one bite if I were even wondering if I was going to be puking soon. I have never had food poisoning, but I know enough people that have.......

My grandma had food poisoning so severe she was hospitalized and missed her daughter's wedding.

A friend got food poisoning from a fast food joint and was super sick. She ended up getting a settlement check from them that was.... pretty substantial. She said the money was totally not worth it (and we were just starting out single ladies at the time) it was so very awful. A year or so later, she was food poisoned again at a friend's house from chicken. She was sicker than anyone else, I wonder if her earlier experience made her more susceptible, or if maybe she just IS more susceptible from some reason?

A co-worker and her husband were sickened at a super popular smoked meat restaurant. The way she described it just gave me the cold sweats, it sounded so terrible. She was so sick she was *hallucinating*, her husband told her she said things she has no memory of. They both spent the night on the floor of their (one) bathroom.