Weaning time? Do I laugh or cry? Tips, anyone? (long)

[ShanaMama]

DS is 19 mo now & very active, very verbal. And still nursing. He is severely allergic to a lot of foods including milk & soy, which is why I haven't weaned him yet. He drinks Rice Dream, which he loves, but it has zero nutritional value. Despite his allergies he eats a decently well rounded diet & is a chunky little man.

DD2 also had multiple food allergies & I struggled so hard to make it to one year nursing her. After that it just became a pleasure for both of us & she nursed until almost 2.5 when we weaned pretty painlessly.

I am a SAHM. DS is a delicious, delightful rough & tumble little boy. He is quite attached to Mommy & will be M.A.D. if I wean him. I am positive that there will be no more snuggles if we aren't nursing. I am so not ready to give up my snuggles! But.
He has never slept through the night. Until recently he'd nurse before bed around 6:30 & used to wake up at 11 & 2. I've pushed his morning nap to an afternoon nap & I put him to bed a little later, like 7, 7:30. He seems to have cut out the 11 wakeup but might still wake up at 2. I don't actually know what time he wakes up or how he gets into my arms. Every morning the previous night is a blur. I think he wakes up around 3 & just comes to bed with me. (DH brings him to me in my sleep). This is really not working out for us because around 5:30 he decides he's ready to party & just starts beating me up. Climbing on my head, nursing silly in a way that hurts me, etc. I am perpetually sore from his tight suckle & when he wakes me up like that I just wish he wasn't nursing.
I have gotten into a really bad habit of staying up late & procrastinating going to bed until I literally drop. Like now, when I'm posting @ 1:45 am. I just can't bring myself to go to sleep when I know that *the minute* my eyes close & I drift off he'll wake up shrieking. So I am seriously sleep deprived from this whole saga even though I can function pretty well on very little sleep.

DH is desperate to go away as a couple & doesn't want to take him along. We haven't been away at all since DS was born & DH really needs some time away every so often. We usually go away for a couple of nights once or twice a year, if we have someone to watch the kids. I have no one to watch DS during the day either, as he's not in daycare but I certainly can't leave him for the night unless he's reliably weaned.

The last complicating factor is that we live in a small house & all 3 of my DC share a room. So when he wakes up he often wakes up DD2 & vice versa. This is why I run to take him out of the room every time he wakes up. Every time I try nursing him in his room & putting him back to sleep he freaks out & wakes up his sisters. It becomes a crazy cycle of exhausted parents & kids all awake & desperate to be asleep. I can't even imagine what life would be like if we were sleeping through the night regularly. I think I'll have to move my girls downstairs to the playroom for 1-2 weeks while I wean him. They are not going to be pleased about that.

Thanks for reading this novel, if you've made it this far. I don't really know what I want to do at this point. DH definitely wants me to wean him yesterday. I am not so ready to give up my snuggles with my babe, even though I sometimes go crazy from him. Is there a middle of the road other than cold turkey? The hardest time to change is going to be the 3-5 am nursing because I have no willpower when I've just gone to bed at 2. I don't really want to continue that one & take away his nursing before bed.... please share your advice or even just commiseration. Thanks!

ETA: I'll add a DS funny which pretty much sums up the scenario: He was in my bed one morning at some ungodly hour nursing away but being silly & annoying me. I finally closed my shirt & told him no more, stop it. He whined & begged for me, tried lifting my shirt, cried, etc. I just kept saying no more, go away. Finally he changes his tone, puts on his puppy dog smile & turns to me & says "Peez Mommy, I have some more NuNu??" I cracked up & caved & he was pleased as cheese.

[azzeps]

Night weaning might help. Dr. Jay Gordon. I know what you mean by waking up like you do. Mine is night weaned but still wakes early wanting milk. I'm so ready to be done. Good luck to you!

[ShanaMama]

I'd love to night wean him & continue to nurse before nap & bedtime. However that middle of the night feeding is going to be the hardest one to cut! I have no idea how to do it because it's not a conscious feeding. Every night he wakes up, DH begs me to go to him before he wakes up the girls & I tell DH in my sleep that I'm too tired to go to him (settle him down in his room) & please just bring him to my bed. I have no recollection of this conversation but apparently it happens every night.

Night weaning won't help with the vacation aspect, but we might just have to take him along. Everyone I know IRL thinks it's pretty crazy to be nursing a 19 mo & 'having him run your life'. So I'm trying to figure out how the BBB feels about it.

[Melaine]

Very very similar situation here....DH did Ferber 10 days ago and things are SO much better. http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?468395-Update-on-the-always-nursing-never-sleeping-toddler

[egoldber]

I hate to say this, but even after weaning, my younger DD did not sleep through the night. She STILL sometimes does not sleep through the night. She has always been a terrible sleeper. To wean middle of the night, have DH go in instead for several nights. You have to be committed and it was never worth it to me, but it can work.

I'm not sure why you can't take a vacation? At 19 months he can go a few days without nursing. You may feel a little uncomfortable and might want to have a pump available in case you need to relieve some engorgement, but I would go, enjoy yourself, and see what happens when you come back. He may stop or he may pick right up where he left off. If you're planning to wean anyway, that could be a good way to do it.

Also, at 19 months, you should feel free to set limits. After 18 months I told younger DD:

no nursing out of the house
in the morning
before bed
(after I went back to work) when I got home from work
only in places where I said it was OK

At 2, I said no more night time. That one was surprisingly easy for us.

But if you still want to nurse occasionally, there are many ways to go about doing this.

[hellokitty]

I basically agree with most of what egoldber said. If anything, focus on night weaning, instead of weaning all together. With his history of allergies, I think that it would be better for him to continue nursing longer. Give him water in a sippy if he wakes up and move the older sibs to the playroom while you nightwean, if that's what you need to do. I know many moms who weaned and it did not solve sleep problems, but night weaning can help. I also think that setting bf limits is OK at this age.

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[Simon]

My Ds3 who is just a little older (21 months) is also waking and wanting to nurse and, also because of allergies, I really don't want to wean him yet. So far, I have had great luck telling him that the milk is sleeping. I am sleeping, his brothers are sleeping, the milk is sleeping and he can nurse when the sun is up (around here that is after 6 am). He might cry a little but will then snuggle down and go back to sleep. I will admit I am inconsistent in that I do sometimes nurse him in the middle of the night, but all 3 of my kids have not stopped waking up when the middle of the night nursing ended. So, I would have a back-up plan for how he'l be put back to sleep if the nightweaning doesn't cure the waking. FWIW, my Ds is also getting teeth right now and he wakes at the exact time that his motrin wears off. It took my several days to figure that out but he slept a lot better once I did!

[georgiegirl]

Try night weaning first. If that doesn't work, then there might be other issues. Many toddlers who are not nigh weaned will wake to nurse until night weaned. I night weaned my DS at 2 and he still woke at night. I totally weaned him at 2.5 and he still woke at night. He turned 4 in July and was still waking at night. We had his tonsils and adenoids out last month and he's finally sleeping through the night regularly. Granted he still wakes at 5 am, but that's another story.

[Pear]

Night weaning is the hardest, but I still think it is your best approach. We had to nightwean DD for medical reasons. It was tough. Having DH on board was essential.

Daytime weaning was easier. I just started setting limits. For me that meant cutting out midday sessions and offering milk or a enticing snack and cuddles Instead. Then over several months I just kept adding rules about when she could nurse. Eventually we dropped the last session and she took it surprisingly well.

[lizzywednesday]

I understand - we only night-weaned in January for similar reasons: DD bit me one too many times & I said "enough." Because she was older than your DS, it may have been easier ... and our situation's different (we're a one-child family rather than a 3-child one) but it's OK to set limits with a toddler.

I agree with hellokitty about it likely being better for him to continue nursing because of his allergies, but getting him to drop that overnight comfort-feed is likely going to be rough.

Do you think maybe he would take to a lovey for the soothing instead of needing Mama?

[Blue Hydrangea]

OMG, I was just there! DD is 18m, and never reliably slept though the night, and was always up at least twice. And I work FT, so there was a mix of feelings: a small amount of guilt that kept me going to her at night, thinking that "she missed me", worry that her crying would wake up DS, wanting to preserve my own sleep and nursing her got her back to sleep the fastest, being so exhausted that I couldn't imagine sacrificing what little rest I was getting to sleep train her, and certain percentage of zombie-ism that had me going to her to nurse her at night if she peeped without even realizing what I was doing.

So I told DH I really wanted her to learn to sleep, and we had a plan. Over the course of a month or so, we started dropping feedings, morning was easiest because she was desperate for anything, and would take a sippy if DH gave it to her right after she woke up, then the rest of the morning was easy. Next I ended the before bed nursing session, and replaced it with DH giving her a sippy while he read to her and put her to bed. She HATED that. Screamed in protest. But she lived through it, and that seemed to be what actually got her to sleep through the night. She still squawked at her usual times at night, but once I committed to not giving her the crutch of nursing back to sleep I realized that 1) it wasn't actual "feed me" crying, it was sort of like sleep crying, and never lasted more than 5 min. and 2) DS didn't wake up. Once we were at that point I figured out that I didn't need to go to her every time she made a noise, and she's been sleeping through the night ever since. AND SO AM I!

I get feeling like you can't go away without DS sleeping through the night. I couldn't do that to my own MIL, knowing DD would be up crying at 11 and 4. But now that she's sleeping it's incredibly freeing. I don't feel worried about leaving the kids with sitter for night out, knowing now that she's content with a sippy in her night routine. I feel like DH and I could and should take a weekend trip, knowing DD will sleep through the night at MIL's. And me sleeping through the night again is amazing. I'm clear headed, happier, and more energetic. Sure, I survived on a couple hours of sleep here and there for 18m, but now that I'm rested I feel so much better. A good solid stretch of sleep is a glorious thing.

[essnce629]

I'd also focus on night weaning and I think 19 months may be old enough to understand the "no nursing till the sun comes up" route. That's what I did and I know it's pretty common with extended nursers, but I know lots have had success with the Jay Gordon Method, including one of my best friends who night weaned at just past a year old.

http://drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

DS1 night weaned on his own at 15 months and then slept through the night from that day forward. I night weaned DS2 around 20-24 months (can't remember!) and he didn't sleep through the night till he was almost 4 years old! So you never know what you're going to get! With DS2 even though he was night weaned he would wake up multiple times a night. At the beginning of the night, when I was still awake, I'd put him back in his room and he'd go back to sleep. But in the middle of the night he'd end up in our bed. At 3 I said he could sleep in our room on the floor (Shrunks air bed) if he had to, but not in our bed since we just had a queen and I was getting back and shoulder pain from sleeping like a sardine. He slept on the air bed for a few weeks off and on but then started sleeping through the night in his room. He's now 4.5 and even though he sleeps in his bed all night, he sometimes wakes up with a night terror early on. He's just never been a great sleeper ever!

[ShanaMama]

Thanks for all the replies. I can't reply to each so I'll try to address a few points. I hope this doesn't get too long.

Thank you for pointing out that he may not sleep much better after weaning. DD2 is really not a great sleeper at age 5. I often wonder if their current sleep styles are inborn or learned. My 8 yo is the only one who took a pacifier and she self weaned at 8 months. She's a great sleeper. My other two have followed the pattern I described in OP. Both are allergic, no paci babies, just used Mommy as a paci until I put my foot down.
In any case I think our best bet is to cut out that middle of the night comfort feed & retain the others for now. I really don't want to give up nursing completely just yet. To clarify, I certainly set limits with him. He only nurses in my bed in the morning, before nap & before bedtime. And through the wee hours of the night. That's the entire problem.
I did a combination of Jay Gordon & Baby Whisperer to get him to actually sleep in his crib several months ago. So I am no longer his pacifier & he actually embraces his crib when I put him in. I am trying to be very strict about nursing till sleepy but not asleep. I think that's what has him skipping the 11 & sometimes 2 am feeding. I also recently incorporated a whole bedtime routine including brushing teeth & a story. So nursing is just one part of bedtime instead of everything.

I need to get DH on board with night weaning. The only way to do it is to have DH go in, right? That's gonna be the biggest challenge because DH is a real softie & cannot leave him crying. I hate being bad cop but I am better about being matter of fact rather than introducing all kinds of 'crutches ' like patting his back, staying in the room, etc. DH also works very long intense days & really cannot function without sleep. It's going to be challenging to get through 3-4 nights before DS gets the hang of it.
Lastly, to address our potential vacation, it absolutely never occurred to me to leave a nursing toddler with a caregiver for an extended period. I don't think it's fair to either of them. I didn't look at it as him skipping a few feedings, I looked at it as he's waking up at night looking for Mommy & I'm not there & there's no tried & true way to settle him back down. I don't exactly have relatives begging to watch my kids, so it's logistically tricky. But if I could night wean him now, I can see leaving him & just letting him skip his regular feedings which can be easily replaced.
maybe this will be a good way to help DH motivate himself- reward ourselves with a getaway once he's night weaned.
Thanks for the perspectives & tips. Blue Hydrangea- I'm really glad you're all STTN now. I can't even imagine that !

[goldenpig]

Shanamama, I feel like I could have written your post! I have 3 at very similar ages to yours (like half a year behind). All of my kids cosleep for at least the first year, and still night wake regularly till age 2 and intermittently till 3-4. I nursed DD a long time, till age 3, and had struggles with her wanting to nurse all the time and difficulty night weaning. I posted about it before. CIO never worked for us--she would cry for hours and then throw up. I nursed DS1 till 2, and stopped mainly b/c I was sick of avoiding dairy while I was pregnant (DS is allergic to dairy). I had a hard time getting him to sleep through the night because he was sharing a room with DD and kept waking her up. Now 8 month old DS2 is still in our bed (he refuses to sleep in the crib in our room) and he's allergic to dairy, soy and egg too. I also went on a 1 week trip with DH while DS1 was 17 months old and still nursing--I was so freaked out about it, but everything went fine (my mom and stepdad came to stay with the kids). They got him to pretty much sleep through the night and when I came back, he went back to nursing (and waking up at night to nurse, LOL). I pumped and brought the milk back with me (we were on a diving trip and I kept the milk in the boat's kitchen). So it can be done, don't worry about having to wean him before you go.
Good luck with everything! You are not alone!

Here are some of my old posts/threads if they might be helpful:

http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?345913-Need-to-wean-toddler-(long-sigh)&p=2575956
http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?369081-cosleeping-mamas-when-and-how-did-you-tranfer-your-child-to-his-her-own-bed&p=2828922
http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?393284-Best-strategy-for-sleep-training-my-1-year-old-CIO
http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?390278-Thinking-of-going-on-a-trip-with-DH-and-leaving-the-kids-but-not-ready-to-wean
http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?406046-Help!-Separation-anxiety-worried-about-leaving-baby-behind