I Feel So Bad For DH

[anonomom]

Ugh, poor DH. He's being manipulated by his mom and it has him in knots. He's asked me not to confront her so I have to yell here.

Neither DH nor I are religious. To please our parents, we got married in the church and until a few years ago allowed his parents to take our kids to mass occasionally and would go to church on Christmas despite our disbelief and our political discomfort with the church.

A few years ago, their church worked actively to pass a ballot referendum that DH and I find morally indefensible and it was our proverbial last straw. We told his parents that we were no longer willing to be associated in any way with that church. ILs remain very active there.

A few nights ago, DH tells me his mom called to ask if he would escort her to midnight mass because FIL is singing in the choir (as he does every year) and she wants to go to mass but doesn't want to sit alone. Caught off guard, he initially agreed. But when he got home and we discussed it, he realized that he really didn't want to lend even the appearance of support to this church so he told his mom that he'd changed his mind.

Since them, his mom's been acting like a 2yo. She's spent the last two days alternately freezing him out, complaining, and threatening to spend next Christmas out of state. She keeps whining about everyone else having family with them at church while she sits alone. From my perspective, nobody forces FIL to spend every Sunday and holiday in the choir loft, nor does anyone force MIL to go to church alone while FIL is singing. They both choose to attend these specific masses and it's not DH's responsibility to make those choices easier. For her even to ask DH to attend that church knowing that he finds it represensible is, to me, a betrayal. Basically she is trying to force DH to prove she is more important to him than his principles. Poor DH is so sad -- he worries that this refusal of his mom's whims will result in a permanent rupture of their relationship. But if he gives in, we both know that next time her demand, and the resulting tantrum if he refuses, will be bigger.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

oh wow, i'm so sorry. but i must say-kudos to your DH for standing up to her! I am in serious awe here as i swear my DH would never ever do anything like that, and it seems like most guys wouldn't either. I do get the impression that most guys (DH included) almost always take the "i don't like it, but i'll do it just to appease her, i don't really believe in it so it means nothing, it's just a small sacrifice that would mean a lot to her" approach, which can be frustrating if you're always on the receiving end of having to bite your tongue. So, i'm amazed he actually went and changed his mind. That stinks though that she's throwing a tantrum over it though.

[georgiegirl]

Wow, she sounds very manipulative.

[MamaMolly]

Gross. What a peach.

[wellyes]

"Don't be mad at me, ma. Be mad at the people in the church who decided _______ that made us leave".
Maybe that will reframe it a bit?
Probably not- actually I don't advise speaking against her religion at Christmas- but it'd be gratifying to say, I think.

[hellokitty]

UGH! I feel bad for your dh, your mil sounds like a real peach. It will be hard for him to say, "no" to her, but he really needs to do it, or she will keep pulling this garbage on him and toying with him. I would challenge him to call his mother out on her manipulation, turn the tables and see how she reacts. Sometimes when you do that to ppl who pull stunts like this, it catches them off guard and they will back down (at least for a little bit). My mil is like this, so I totally empathize with you and your dh.

[MontrealMum]

I'm so sorry, that sounds awful! Your poor DH.

If she's so very active and invested in this church, can I just ask...does she not have friends there? Why doesn't she sit with them? My mom sang in our church choir for years and my dad always sat with 2 other DH's who had a wife in the choir. And my grandma, who was widow, had a whole gaggle of friends to sit with from her guilds. Your MIL is being a snot (which you know). Don't let her prey on your conscience.

[belovedgandp]

Um, yeah, sounds like a winner there.

I don't get the guilt trip from a practical stand point. She has to have friends there or other spouses of choir members to sit with.

Now I usually go to church with three kids, so the idea of sitting by myself sounds so peaceful.

[queenmama]

Yeah, if she's that active she can find someone else to sit with! I would not back down if I were him.

I had a "last straw" moment with my parents and, honestly, I am at peace with it. Our relationship was never worth sacrificing my principles, so it was an easy choice for me to step back. My sister made the same decision, and it's kind of a relief to keep these people at arm's length.

Lara

[specialp]

"Don't be mad at me, ma. Be mad at the people in the church who decided _______ that made us leave".
Maybe that will reframe it a bit?
Probably not- actually I don't advise speaking against her religion at Christmas- but it'd be gratifying to say, I think.

Yeah that. I feel sorry for him, too. Hope he can reframe it to show she is asking him to do something terribly uncomfortable to his beliefs so she doesn't have to sit alone for an hour.

About the having friends to sit with, I will say it is different at Christmas services because most people have family with them they do not normally have. DH has an uncle in a choir and the aunt always sits with friends, but she has commented that she feels like a third wheel at Christmas services where everyone has their extended family with them, it is insanely crowded, etc. She didn't say it in a bad way/complained - she just skips church that day and they do not have any kids. She said it more in passing as a why she doesn't mind missing Christmas services in order to cook for her side of the family.

[elliput]

"Don't be mad at me, ma. Be mad at the people in the church who decided _______ that made us leave".
Maybe that will reframe it a bit?
Probably not- actually I don't advise speaking against her religion at Christmas- but it'd be gratifying to say, I think.
The problem is that mom might be one of those people, no?

I'm sorry, OP. Balancing principles and familial relations can be excruciatingly difficult. I hope your DH is able to make MIL see that this is her problem, not his.

[anonomom]

Thanks for all of your support. I am really proud of DH for standing up for her. It's so weird for me, because unless religion is involved, MIL really is great. She's been kinder to me than my own mom ever was and we tend to have a close relationship. But when it comes to her kids disagreeing with her about her church, she turns into a different person.

[BabbyO]

In the interest of keeping *some* peace at the holidays and to help ease some of the tension for your DH, could he suggest the following??

Can MIL sit in the choir loft while FIL sings. I've never sang in a church that didn't have some extra seating in the choir loft to accommodate family. If they sing a the front of the church/on the altar, suggest MIL sit in one of the first pews - off to the side, and FIL join her during the sermon. Our choir members do this regularly.

I've sung in many churches, both Catholic and Lutheran and especially at the holidays people generally understand a family member in the choir loft or a choir member joining their family at least during the sermon.

It seems like a logical solution.

I do think it is terrible that MIL is trying to guilt your DH, but I know that their generation look at things, esp church differently. IME - Catholics (not all, but some) rely on guilt to get you to do things...so this may be a perfectly acceptable approach in MIL's mind.

(I'm not trying to rip on Catholics here, like all people and institutions, there are some with flaws and some that are awesome)

[blisstwins]

IME - Catholics (not all, but some) rely on guilt to get you to do things...so this may be a perfectly acceptable approach in MIL's mind.

(I'm not trying to rip on Catholics here, like all people and institutions, there are some with flaws and some that are awesome)


I will just say that this is hurtful. If you took out Catholic and substituted any other religion or ethnicity people would be screaming murder, but this kind of comment always passes.

Did OP even say this is a Catholic church?

Also, I get not wanting to compromise principles, but when I read this days ago I was struck by the fact that the mother in this case seems to be otherwise Ok--decent relationships and usually kind. I think being a good parent earns you a little credit.

I get wanting to protect your principals, but since when does doing something for someone you love who has presumably done much for you count for nothing? This is one hour out of a year to make a mom feel good? It's not as though OP's DH is a public figure and escorting mom will send a public message. My faith is important to me and though my children may grow up to practice another religion, I would hope they would still come to events that are important to me just because I love them and want to be together. I guess I just think a one time thing at the holidays is different from insisting OPs DH be a member or practice regularly.

[TwinFoxes]

I do think it is terrible that MIL is trying to guilt your DH, but I know that their generation look at things, esp church differently. IME - Catholics (not all, but some) rely on guilt to get you to do things...so this may be a perfectly acceptable approach in MIL's mind.

(I'm not trying to rip on Catholics here, like all people and institutions, there are some with flaws and some that are awesome)

This is just a ridiculous stereotype. I mean really, what decade is this? I can't wait to hear your theories about overbearing Jewish moms.

How about "some PEOPLE rely on guilt to get you to do things".

[abh5e8]

This is just a ridiculous stereotype. I mean really, what decade is this? I can't wait to hear your theories about overbearing Jewish moms.

How about "some PEOPLE rely on guilt to get you to do things".

i agree completely. i'm offended and i'm not catholic! no need to blame the MIL in questions manulipulative behaviors on one of the largest and oldest religions in the world. sheesh.

[anonomom]

I will just say that this is hurtful. If you took out Catholic and substituted any other religion or ethnicity people would be screaming murder, but this kind of comment always passes.

Did OP even say this is a Catholic church?

Also, I get not wanting to compromise principles, but when I read this days ago I was struck by the fact that the mother in this case seems to be otherwise Ok--decent relationships and usually kind. I think being a good parent earns you a little credit.

I get wanting to protect your principals, but since when does doing something for someone you love who has presumably done much for you count for nothing? This is one hour out of a year to make a mom feel good? It's not as though OP's DH is a public figure and escorting mom will send a public message. My faith is important to me and though my children may grow up to practice another religion, I would hope they would still come to events that are important to me just because I love them and want to be together. I guess I just think a one time thing at the holidays is different from insisting OPs DH be a member or practice regularly.

OP here. When it was just a matter of us not believing in god and finding MIL's church's politics distasteful, this is the tack we took. We went to church when she asked; we allowed her to take our kids there. But what this church did violates our most important value -- treating all people with love and kindness. MIL knows how vehemently we disagree with the way her church has acted (and I keep specifying "her church" to emphasize the fact that it's not an entire religion we feel this strongly against, but the actions taken by this particular church). I'd even go so far as to characterize its actions as evil. I will not willingly associate my family with that kind of hatred; not for MIL, not for anyone.

In the end, DH agreed to take MIL to the "Carol singing" portion of the service so she could see FIL sing, but they did not stay for mass. She and FIL went to mass together on Christmas morning. Nobody was happy with this -- I'd have preferred DH not ever step foot in that church; MIL was annoyed that DH wouldn't stay to pray; DH just wanted the whole issue to go away. But it kept the peace and MIL is now on very clear notice that this drama will not be repeated next year.

[blisstwins]

In the end, DH agreed to take MIL to the "Carol singing" portion of the service so she could see FIL sing, but they did not stay for mass. .

Sounds like you handled this with respect and graciousness. I do get where you are coming from, especially if the Church is really that bad, but your husband showed respect for his family and for his own beliefs. I am sorry your MIL was not mollified by that. Your husband was really quite delicate.

[BabbyO]

I will just say that this is hurtful. If you took out Catholic and substituted any other religion or ethnicity people would be screaming murder, but this kind of comment always passes.

Did OP even say this is a Catholic church?

Also, I get not wanting to compromise principles, but when I read this days ago I was struck by the fact that the mother in this case seems to be otherwise Ok--decent relationships and usually kind. I think being a good parent earns you a little credit.

I get wanting to protect your principals, but since when does doing something for someone you love who has presumably done much for you count for nothing? This is one hour out of a year to make a mom feel good? It's not as though OP's DH is a public figure and escorting mom will send a public message. My faith is important to me and though my children may grow up to practice another religion, I would hope they would still come to events that are important to me just because I love them and want to be together. I guess I just think a one time thing at the holidays is different from insisting OPs DH be a member or practice regularly.


This is just a ridiculous stereotype. I mean really, what decade is this? I can't wait to hear your theories about overbearing Jewish moms.

How about "some PEOPLE rely on guilt to get you to do things".


i agree completely. i'm offended and i'm not catholic! no need to blame the MIL in questions manulipulative behaviors on one of the largest and oldest religions in the world. sheesh.

To each of you I am truly sorry. I did not intend to offend ANYONE. That is why I said "In MY Experience" and "not all but some." My experience growing up Catholic and attending Catholic school for years is that guilt was used A LOT by family, members of the church, and school to motivate people to do things. It was this way in multiple parishes that I attended not a single parish.

Regardless, I'm sorry.