Feedback on this church issue?

[Melaine]

I am asking you guys bc I am not sure to what degree I am over reacting, although I am sure that I am somewhat.

As background, my anxiety issues are a constant struggle for me that affect the way I look at many issues,particularly those involving my kids. It is reality for me but I try to be "normal" in public. We have been attending this church sporadically for 18 months, but went consistently before having kids. I blame our health for our weak attendance, both my mental health and the fact that we have truly been very sick the last year or so.

DS has graduated from nursery to toddler room. Last week I went in with him and planned to go in today and leave him when I felt comfortable. They don't have dedicated teachers for that age, so it cycles through volunteers. There were two adults there that I hadn't met. They didn't greet me or speak to me other than asking dS's name. They were sitting all the kids down to watch tv (what?? Why???). I stood in the back and ds immediately left the chairs to play in the corner. In the five minutes i was there DS picked up a broken toy that was a total choking hazard and I scooped up a used bandaid off the floor where he was playing. Those are examples of why i hesitate to just drop him off without going in myself.

anyway the kids's director came to the door, called me out and told me she couldn't allow me in the room because I hadn't gone through the training process for volunteers. She seemed to assume i would then just leave him, but I took him and left. She told I could hang out in the foyer (not a child safe area). I ended up taking him outside which was cold and i was really upset the more I thought about it. I basically feel like There is no place for me as a very attached, safety conscious mom in this church. It's not like I am going into the sunday school class with my 6th grader, this is a 22 month old, who isn't talking or potty trained. I am expected to hand him over with no conversation or warming up period? To be clear, I completely agree with the volunteer screening and training. I just think a parent should be allowed to stand in the back of the room while two other "trained" adults are supervising the kids.

So To add insult to injury, bc i was feeling so emotional after standing outside through the whole service, I sent DH to get the girls. Because he didn't have the checkout slip (i couldn't find it), she wouldn't let him pick them up! Now, again, I get the policy. BUt she claims to have not recognized my DH and said they haven't met, but she also she hadn't met me and we actually have met. I had to go back in and get the girls myself and even while apologizing, she still bugged me about the checkout slip. I mean, how are they going to enforce that anyway? not let us take our kids?? I am pretty sure I lost the slip while trying to occupy DS outside because I felt so unwelcome inside. Clearly, this could have been a BP but I am curious about feedback from you guys.

[hillview]

wow sorry. Sounds like it might not be a good fit. Are there aspects you DO like?

[Katigre]

I think, honestly, that you are taking this very personally in a non productive way. The strict check out policy is standard in many churches, and a foyer is a fine place to sit with a toddler - I walk with my toddler in many "non childproof" areas at church and take it on myself to keep him out of mischief. I think you're interpreting everything through a lense of "I'm not welcome" when that didn't seem to be the case.

I don't think you're being intentionally excluded, I think your personal sensitive spots are being aggravated by your perceptions of the environment.

Ex. The video/tv - is it part of the Sunday school curriculum? In my preschool class that I teach we use a video for worship songs and part of the bible story. It's intentionally integrated, not a mindless "park them in front of the tv" thing.

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[georgiegirl]

I would not find that situation acceptable. Granted I don't go to church, but you should have unrestricted access to your child, especially a baby or toddler.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Hmm. Aside from the cleanliness issue, lots of us would just drop our kiddos off at the gym nursery w no warming up period assuming kiddo went off to play. The staff at my gym is hit or miss on the chatty scale but they do play with the kids and keep them safe. That's all I ask while I'm trying to workout. So, through that lens and taking out the choking hazard and band aid, the situation doesn't bother me.

I would personally look for a smaller church though. This one doesn't sound great regarding community building.

[maybeebaby08]

I'm overly cautious about leaving my kids places , and I've also run a few Children's Ministries. From the Director's perspective they have to have standard rules across the board regarding people watching the kids who are certified. If you're allowed to stay while your son gets adjusted for 15-20 minutes then it's ok for everyone to stay and do that. Some parents are creepers and shouldn't be allowed to stand there for 20 minutes watching other people's children, so instead of putting staff members in awkward positions she was probably just following rules. As well as with the check out slip, they could have recently had an incident with someone checking out a child who shouldn't have and want to protect the kids and themselves. DD1 would never go in any type of childcare unless I was there, and we just recently stopped attending a church because the Children's Pastor left and the church member who stepped up to lead it gave me a bad vibe. I understand where you are coming from, but I wouldn't take it personally. I'd just look at it as the Director trying to protect the children and follow rules.

[Katigre]

I would not find that situation acceptable. Granted I don't go to church, but you should have unrestricted access to your child, especially a baby or toddler.
But she shouldn't have unrestricted access to all the children in the room which is why she was asked to leave. That's a standard part of child protection policies. Imagine if an unsafe parent harmed other children in the room bc they were granted access simply bc their child was in there. That leaves the church open to a lawsuit for allowing non screened adults around vulnerable children.

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[Katigre]

I'd be glad to talk through solutions for you. Bc you should be able to feel safe and comfortable at church. Sometimes it helps to hear the "why" behind a given policy, at least in my experience.

Is your anxiety/social issues being treated?

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[DietCokeLover]

First, I would mention the toy and bandaid to the staff. Sounds like they need to be made mindful of the cleanliness/ safety issue.
But second, I completely get the checkout process and them needing the slip. I would be extremely unhappy if someone let my children out with someone that did not have a slip. And if your attendance hasn't been all that regular, they might not have known you or your DH and were trying to keep your children safe.
As for standing in the room, I see both sides. You are anxious about leaving your ds and so you are trying to settle in to that decision. However, sometimes having an extra person in the room is disruptive to the child, other children or teachers. If I was feeling like you, I think I would wait outside in the hall and make sure ds was ok, then join your DH in church.

[MelissaTC]

I work for both MOPS groups at a local church and have done both the infant and toddler rooms. The problem with lingering parents, especially in the toddler room, is that the other kids tend to get upset and worked up as they too want their mother. However, we always chat with the moms, try and make them feel comfortable and then shoo them away. ;) I would never not speak to a mom dropping off her baby. We always want to know what the baby likes (as in some like to be held, some like their pacifier, special blanket, etc..).

[specialp]

The safety/choking hazard I would address, but do agree with a PP. This place might not be a good fit for you, but it does feel like you are taking it too personally and then looking at everything negatively through that lens. Is the TV for the entire time, or just during drop off so they can sort of keep the kids in one place while adults are coming and going? You aren't looking it at the safety from their side of the situation as far as picking up children and having adults who they don't know hanging around children in their charge. You're one person, but they are a rotating staff dealing with a lot of parents. If everyone did it, it wouldn't be manageable. As far as chatting up, there is a downside to that. You can't watch 10+ little kids as well if you are chatting with adults. Re: pick up, all I can say is I would never be able to remember all the parents of a child I see once a week (and that is for somone who goes weekly) and that is especially true if the parent who did the pick up is different than the one who did the drop off. I'm not sure what else they are supposed to to keep pick up safe unless it is not to offer it at all.

[BunnyBee]

If you're not comfortable with the setup, then you're not comfortable with it. Maybe a church with a cry room would be a better fit?

The broken toy and band-aid would make me uncomfortable as well. I wouldn't be thrilled about the TV either. I don't think it is unusual to allow only screened persons into the nursery. The volunteers are there to watch the children, not parents, so it's better to have a bright-line rule. Same with check-out procedures. There should be some fallback to the slip though. If you lose it or get ill? What do they do if they don't recognize either parent?

It sounds like today spiraled out of control for you. Can your husband do dropoff?

[Hemlock]

I don't think that you are overreacting at all! My son is almost the same age and I have never left him alone in the nursery. We have attended the same church for over 10 years and I just don't feel comfortable leaving my baby in the Nursery. I don't have any specific health or safety concerns, it is just a personal preference. Our Nursery is staffed by 2 trained/screened volunteers, but mothers are welcome to stay. After the age of 2, children are expected to move from the nursery to Sunday School, however this is a very lax policy (if your child is not ready for Sunday School until 2.5-3, they are welcome to stay in the Nursery). I taught the 2-3 year old Sunday School class for several years and parents were always welcome in the class.

I think you have some valid health/safety concerns. Also, if you are not comfortable leaving your child, I don't think anyone should try to persuade to do so. Can you try to speak with the Sunday School Coordinator about your concerns? Otherwise, maybe it's time to find a new church :(

[sweetsue98]

I work for both MOPS groups at a local church and have done both the infant and toddler rooms. The problem with lingering parents, especially in the toddler room, is that the other kids tend to get upset and worked up as they too want their mother. However, we always chat with the moms, try and make them feel comfortable and then shoo them away. ;) I would never not speak to a mom dropping off her baby. We always want to know what the baby likes (as in some like to be held, some like their pacifier, special blanket, etc..).

I agree with this. I volunteer frequently in our church infant/toddler room and appreciate the parents that just drop their kids off. However, there are times I've quickly greeted the parents because there are many kids running around.

[specialp]

I'm wondering: if you really like this place otherwise, could you volunteer to help in the toddler room? You could get to know the people, the environment, etc?

[meggie t]

This doesn't address yor specific issue but can't you just have your children in church with you? Why drop them off at all? I understand not feeling comfortable with it and given your anxiety issues maybe dropping your kids off isn't the best option right now, regardless of the church.

I also might not understand the situation completely as I have never been to a church that has such a program. Our children sit with us in the pew.

Good luck and I hope you find an acceptable outcome.

[Simon]

If you're not comfortable with the setup, then you're not comfortable with it. Maybe a church with a cry room would be a better fit?

The broken toy and band-aid would make me uncomfortable as well. I wouldn't be thrilled about the TV either. I don't think it is unusual to allow only screened persons into the nursery. The volunteers are there to watch the children, not parents, so it's better to have a bright-line rule. Same with check-out procedures. There should be some fallback to the slip though. If you lose it or get ill? What do they do if they don't recognize either parent?

I agree with all of this. I don't think the church did anything wrong or bad, but it sounds like a poor fit for you, at least at this stage in your kids' life.

At our church, the volunteers are nice but there is zero warm up period for kids. It is truly a quick hand the over and good bye. The infant room has large one-way windows so you can see if and how quickly your child calms down and there is a paging service for parents to be called during the service. They don't let kids cry more than 10 minutes straight. But there is not room for parents to even enter a room; you are always expected to pass them off at the threshold. That said, there is both a room for nursing moms and a family room where parents are always welcome to watch the service (via video feed) with their own kids, plus kids are welcome at the regular service, too. I liked that they had so many alternatives but also clear policies with good enforcement. I feel it is a safe place for my kids to be without me and has good options for those times when its better for us to be together.

I'm sorry that today left you with such negative feelings. I can understand your perspective and your feelings are ones that I might experience too, but I don't feel as though its necessary for the church to accommodate your wishes in this situation.

[Gracemom]

Can you get screened and trained so that you are allowed in the room? You could take turns being one of the teachers, which would allow you and your child to become more comfortable there. I did this for a while, and the training was a minimal time commitment, and they provided child care.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

This doesn't address yor specific issue but can't you just have your children in church with you? Why drop them off at all? I understand not feeling comfortable with it and given your anxiety issues maybe dropping your kids off isn't the best option right now, regardless of the church.

I also might not understand the situation completely as I have never been to a church that has such a program. Our children sit with us in the pew.

:yeahthat:

If you have anxiety over leaving your ds, I just would use the crying room, or sit in the pew and just step out if tiddler got too fussy.

I agree thw bandaid and choking hazard are bad but i think you are asking waay way too much by expecting to remain there for 20 minutes. As pp said many church nurseries have strict policies about non screened adults in the presence of children. At our church nursery, parents are not allowed to even enter, period. .it has a half-door thing and you literally hand over the kid with a bag of dipes etc. They have a whole background check process for all the volunteer s that work there.

I totally understand not being comfortable with leaving them...which is why we basically never used it. I think we ysed it maybe twice. At the time I was a sahm and my kids had never been in any sort of group care setting. I worried about germs mostly and them catching something from being there. So I pretty much would either use the crying room or dh amd I would take turns walking outside or in the foyer with a kid. I guess I dont see how stepping out for a few minutes here and there is that much worse than missing 15 minutes of the serviceby being un the nursery with your ds.

Anyway I totally get not wanting to drop your ds at a "strange" place...from my own anxieties I wasn't a fan of it either ..but I think that was my issue and not the center's. I do not think hanging around a few minutes would have helped at all. From all what ive seen that thr best thing to do is to be brief and not prolong the drop off.

[Ceepa]

This doesn't address yor specific issue but can't you just have your children in church with you? Why drop them off at all? I understand not feeling comfortable with it and given your anxiety issues maybe dropping your kids off isn't the best option right now, regardless of the church.

Yes. Would keeping DS with you be a workable option?

[Momit]

First, I would mention the toy and bandaid to the staff. Sounds like they need to be made mindful of the cleanliness/ safety issue.
But second, I completely get the checkout process and them needing the slip. I would be extremely unhappy if someone let my children out with someone that did not have a slip. And if your attendance hasn't been all that regular, they might not have known you or your DH and were trying to keep your children safe.
As for standing in the room, I see both sides. You are anxious about leaving your ds and so you are trying to settle in to that decision. However, sometimes having an extra person in the room is disruptive to the child, other children or teachers. If I was feeling like you, I think I would wait outside in the hall and make sure ds was ok, then join your DH in church.

:yeahthat:

It seems to be kind of a universally accepted truth in child care that ripping the bandaid off quickly (no pun intended with the dirty bandaid you found -ick) and doing a quick handoff rather than a long good bye is the way to go with drop offs. Easier for your kids and more fair to the others whose parents didn't stay.

Good luck with your decision to stay or find a new church.

[anonomom]

Would you have been ok leaving if either of the volunteers had greeted you? Because I do not think it's too much to ask that someone be there to "receive" your child (for lack of a better term) and to hang around until you're 100% sure they know he's there.

I confess I am confused about the idea of childcare at church -- don't kids attend services?

[okinawama]

I think by putting your children in the nursery/Sunday school, you're agreeing to their rules, which include no lingering and no picking up children without the slip. Take it or leave it. Maybe your church has a different set up, but I have always felt that a foyer is a safe and appropriate place for a mother and child to be while the service takes place.... Mom can hear the sermon, child can walk around and nobody is bothered.

First and foremost is the safety of my child (which would also mean I'd mention the choking hazards), and if the nursery workers have to step on a few toes to enforce safety rules, I'm all for it. The stand off-ish-ness would have been less than ideal, but not a deal breaker in my mind. I hope you're able to find an option that you're comfortable with and meets everyone's needs! .

[belovedgandp]

I understand the policies you have described for running a program like that. They have to be universal and consistently applied.

With that. None of my three kids would have been OK at 22 months with what you described. I've always taken my kids to services with me. I've left them places too but with babysitters we know in our home, grandparents' house, or school programs they are familiar with and comfortable.

[MommyAllison]

Sorry, that sounds like a crummy experience! If it's helpful, here's what happens in those situations at our church.

Parent staying with toddler - Parents of any age child are welcome to come and observe a class. The policy is that if a parent stays for the entire service more than 3-4 times, they do ask them to fill out a background check. They also ask that the parent does not interact much with other children (aka act like a teacher) unless they have gone through training to volunteer in children's ministry. Tons of parents stay with their babies and toddlers when they are adjusting, it's totally understandable and the attitude that parents aren't allowed to observe without training would totally turn me off. IMO there should be a very open-door policy. If that's their policy, fine, but IMO she should have told you "here's our policy, you can stay today but in the future we need you to do XYZ"

Pick-up without checkout slip - Our church is very strict about having the checkout slip, but of course they get lost sometimes. If someone can't find their slip, they have to show their photo ID to the Childrens Ministry coordinator, they get a new slip, and go get their kids. That happens all.the.time! No big deal, and the fact that she made a big deal out of it would turn me off.

We do have a parents room, a nursing mothers room, and an overflow room for parents to sit in with their kids, and if someone isn't comfortable dropping their kids off they are directed there. I'm sorry to hear about everything that happened today. :(

[TwinFoxes]

This doesn't address yor specific issue but can't you just have your children in church with you? Why drop them off at all? I understand not feeling comfortable with it and given your anxiety issues maybe dropping your kids off isn't the best option right now, regardless of the church.

I also might not understand the situation completely as I have never been to a church that has such a program. Our children sit with us in the pew.


:yeahthat: My across the street neighbor goes to a large Protestant church, and she did say something about one thing she noticed about Catholic churches (we're Catholic) is there's no place you can drop off your kids where someone else can "love on them while you enjoy services". So maybe it's a denominational thing.

Anyway, I don't think they were intentionally trying to make you feel unwelcome. i completely understand why they didn't want you in the class, if my kids had seen another mommy in the class, they would have cried for me. If there were no other mommies, they would be fine. I learned this from dance class...one mommy insisted on staying, and whenever she was there, a bunch of other kids wanted their mommies too. It would be a PITA for the teachers.

And I really, really understand the drop off slip situation. Especially for toddlers who can't communicate very well. I think they did the right thing there. I can totally see someone writing in to ask "how do I address this with my Sunday school, they are very lax about letting kids go without drop off slips".

I would be fine with being in the hallway, even if it's not child-proof, since I'd be sitting right there.

Those are my thoughts. I don't know if switching churches is the answer. But I'd say try to look at through the lens of they're trying to keep your kids safe, rather than they're trying to make you feel unwelcome.

[Melaine]

Ugh just lost a long post! Anyway, thanks for all the feedback. I do know that my feelings are not typical. I also am very familiar with children's ministries and childcare...I have worked at camp, mentored at a youth detention center, led youth groups, taught sunday school and worked as a nanny. I'm currently on staff with our homeschool group for childcare as well....I don't disagree with the policies and I'm not ignorant to the reasoning behind them. I like that they are enforcing the rules, I just disagree that parents aren't allowed with their babies/kids under any circumstances. As for turning in the paper/sheet, I want to clarify that that was for our SEVEN year olds, not the baby. And honestly, she has no excuse for not recognizing both of us. I admit I was put off at the very beginning of our conversation when she said "we haven't formally met"...because we have. We actually spoke specifically about my joining the childcare staff, apparently she has forgotten.

[Melaine]

I am free to take DS in the service with us but no one else does this and he absolutely won't sit still or quiet enough to make it remotely possible. Each week I try to sit in with him and he lasts about 10 minutes. "Baby proof" wasn't the word I should have used. The room is open to the hallways and adjoining buildings and there is no door, no cry room. Taking him out of the service just means I will be chasing him from one end of the church to another and can't hear anything from the speakers.

[Melaine]

I am replying separately because I so often lose posts on the ipad.....sorry!

I am under a doctor's care for the anxiety, and on medication. I don't think I have social anxiety at all, but I do have OCD tendencies. I am trying a new med and so far it is not working.

[Melaine]

I also want to mention that my expectation was to stay for a little while and then leave....today. My plan was to drop him off next time. This is his first time moving up to this class. I wasn't planning to stay each time. But this was a new room for him and I don't think it's unreasonable to stay for awhile. Katigre, in response to your post, it is hardly unrestricted access to children for a parent to be in a well lit, open room in full view and supervision of screen volunteers. It's not as if I was asking to take the kids on bathroom trips.

The TV show was lesson-based, of course, but I admit I was very surprised to see it used with kids as young as 18 months. That is certainly not ideal in my mind, but that is neither here nor there. I guess what I find frustrating is them enforcing this "rule" ( which I would have really really liked to have been told about ahead of time) but letting safety standards and cleanliness slide which from what I have observed is typical of this church. I would find those issues less grating if I was allowed into the classroom from time to time.

[georgiegirl]

Considering the AAP says no tv before 2, I would be unhappy with TV. Most daycares/preschools have an open door policy, so I'm surprised the church discourages parents. When I started dd at daycare, the providers were happy to have me there to acclimate my anxious and sensitive DD to the room.

[AngB]

Considering the AAP says no tv before 2, I would be unhappy with TV. Most daycares/preschools have an open door policy, so I'm surprised the church discourages parents. When I started dd at daycare, the providers were happy to have me there to acclimate my anxious and sensitive DD to the room.

:yeahthat:
Any NAEYC accredited childcare facility/program has open door policies with parents. It was not uncommon for us to have a parent stay for an hour or so when dropping their kid off for the first time in our room.

I get that a church drop off is different but I personally would not have ever been comfortable with that and neither of my kids would have been ok with anything like that!

[azzeps]

If I really really liked the church I'd take the toddler in with me to the service. While less than ideal, maybe there is something you could occupy him with? Busy bag? A snack? iPhone apps on mute? And when he's old enough for the threes room then take him there.

[mommy111]

I don't think you're over-reacting.....I think its fairly ridiculous to not allow a mom to stay for a bit and watch her almost 2 year old the first few times she drops him off

[Pear]

I wouldn't be comfortable with that drop-off situation for a toddler either. For an independent preschooler who was used to separating I would be on with it.

I would be mostly upset about spending the service in the foyer. Sure with a kid I would sit towards the back and be ready to step out if needed, but children should be welcome in the service.

[BDKmom]

I am not an anxiety-prone person, and the church nursery has left me in tears more times than I can count, especially when my kids were babies, and it has definitely affected how much we attend. Like OP, I know why the rules exist, but at my church, there is definitely room for improvement. My problem was mostly with the baby room. Usually it was filled with older volunteers who basically just wanted a chance to hold babies. They weren't interested in what my baby might need as far as feeding or schedule, they just wanted me to hand them over and go. My anxiety got so bad that DH had to do all the drop off. It helped a little that my neighbor was the nursery director, so I knew someone had eyes on them that I trusted, but it still made (and makes) me super nervous.

I think in your (OP) situation, they could have shown you more compassion and helped you with the transition. I don't think it's out of line to want to observe for a bit. Depending on the set up, being in the room might have been disruptive, but saying that you had to leave because you weren't screened seems odd. It's not like you were trying to provide care to other children. They could have at least been more understanding of your nervousness.

There is no good alternative to nursery at our church, either. No crying room, no family room. Taking a toddler into the service is quite disruptive, and most others in attendance don't have much tolerance for a child who is moving around and/or making noise. It is expected that they be in the nursery. I know that neither of my kids would be able to be in a service without me having to take them out after 2 minutes. Hanging out in the foyer is a waste--you might as well stay home.

What does your DH think of the situation? If it doesn't bother him as much, maybe your anxiety is clouding your judgment and he should handle drop off. Or maybe the two of you should take turns taking your DDs to church while the other parent stays home, just until your DS is a little older and you feel more comfortable leaving him. Otherwise, I don't have any real solutions, because I'm basically in the same boat and just end up avoiding. I hate that my church attendance has suffered so much because of my anxiety in the situation, and I know that for people who don't experience anxiety in this situation, it seems silly. FTR, I would not be comfortable leaving my DC under about 2.5 or 3 at gym childcare or any other unfamiliar drop off situation, either.

[dogmom]

From a non-religious former Catholic perspective my feelings are you get what you pay for. Since it's free and completely volunteer I think you can hope for certain standards, but not be surprised when they don't happen. So on the end it's going to be a choice you have to make to use or not use.

[daisymommy]

Just one more bit of input on needing the slip for your 7 year old DDs. I know you're thinking that children wouldn't go with a stranger at this age, and would tell the workers, but what about another family member they were not supposed to be in contact with? A father who did not have custody of his children? Because both happened at our church and caused us to start using number matching wristbands for both parent and child, and there are no exceptions. Custody disagreements, over bearing grandparents who parents have separated from their lives, have come and said "oh, didn't they tell you? I'm picking up little Susie today and babysitting" or whatever. Legal and emotional nightmare!


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[vonfirmath]

Would you have been ok leaving if either of the volunteers had greeted you? Because I do not think it's too much to ask that someone be there to "receive" your child (for lack of a better term) and to hang around until you're 100% sure they know he's there.

I confess I am confused about the idea of childcare at church -- don't kids attend services?

1) We just had our preschool training. Not greeting you was a major No-no. It was emphasized we needed to have one person greet every parent dropping off kids. However (we have a half wall on the entrance to all classes in the preschool -- Birth-age 5 -- wing) Parents are not to come into the room. The drop off happens at that wall. Hand Kid over, etc. Also it was emphasized NOT to release kids without the slip showing the person has the right to pick that kid up. We can get in serious trouble if the kid is picked up by the wrong person. And even for adults we know, we are to check slips because you never know when a visitor will be there, see you NOT check a slip and think security doesn't matter to the church.

2) Kids CAN attend services. But at the churches I have been at we had developmentally appropriate lessons for all ages available in Sunday School classes. The worship services are directed toward an adult level.

[AngB]

1) We just had our preschool training. Not greeting you was a major No-no. It was emphasized we needed to have one person greet every parent dropping off kids. However (we have a half wall on the entrance to all classes in the preschool -- Birth-age 5 -- wing) Parents are not to come into the room. The drop off happens at that wall. Hand Kid over, etc. Also it was emphasized NOT to release kids without the slip showing the person has the right to pick that kid up. We can get in serious trouble if the kid is picked up by the wrong person. And even for adults we know, we are to check slips because you never know when a visitor will be there, see you NOT check a slip and think security doesn't matter to the church.

2) Kids CAN attend services. But at the churches I have been at we had developmentally appropriate lessons for all ages available in Sunday School classes. The worship services are directed toward an adult level.

See- I would never ever attend church again before I would drop my young kid off with a virtual stranger that supposedly the church checked out and trained--um, the background checks aren't that thorough (usually just state hwy patrol, that is hardly a check), and who knows what training the church does. I get that it's for just an hour or so but I would have a HUGE problem with that. I have worked in daycares and seen a lot of good and bad but always universally parents were welcomed in.

[Melaine]

I really appreciate all the feedback, and those who see my side of this are making me feel a lot less crazy. I do understand the slip policy and I absolutely am aware of the possibilities of relative pickup. In this case, the slip was LOST. As in, I had the waxy piece of paper and the sticker literally fell of and was gone (maybe they need to replace printer cartridge). What was I supposed to do? I know for a fact that the sticker system is laxly enforced for the older kids because the director knows most of the families. despite her memory we have met each other multiple times. For her to ask AGAIN for the sticker I said I didn't right after she applogized for not recognizing my husband was ridiculous. She clearly recognized and knew me and to emphasize the sticker "policy" after our previous encounter.....I don't know....I really felt like she was on a power trip at that point.

The reason I am feeling really emotional about this right now is that I have not sat through more than 2 or 3 church services over the last two years and I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm feeling spiritually starved but I am not able to get past this issue and DS is NOT going into the service. It's completely out of the question. So yes I feel like the rule and her attitude were both unreasonable but I am torn about pulling DDs out of a church where they are happy.

[HannaAddict]

Can you hire a sitter or have your husband stay home with the kids so you can attend every other week?

[carolinacool]

Can you hire a sitter or have your husband stay home with the kids so you can attend every other week?

:yeahthat:

I'm so sorry. I'm not sure what the solution is. I think the church day care is different from the rules of normal preschool/day care, and if this is the way they've always done things using volunteers and no one else has complained, I'm not sure if it's worth trying to make changes.

This is also foreign territory for me. I grew up going to small country churches that basically had the main part for services and a few scattered rooms for Sunday School. No nurseries, day cares, crying rooms, etc. It's odd to me that bringing your kids into a service is frowned upon in some churches.

[amyx4]

I can tell you that there's a spot in my church where I can stand in the back and see into the large nursery window and hear the service under the speaker. Have you asked the sound dept or ushers if there is a place where the sermon is broadcast near the classrooms?

[barkley1]

We havent attended church much in the past few years bc of both dc's separation anxiety (ages 0-2 mostly), and my (admittedly overboard) fear of germs in the nursery. However, when we did take the plunge and try to work through dds crying everytime i left, no one ever expected me to drop and go, even after the first time! I cant imagine leaving my baby in a new room with new people without any warm up time. We also have a very structured volunteer program and the whole ticket for pick up thing.

If you want to stay at the church, i would talk to the director about a plan for a successful, happy transition to the new room, both for you and dc. Imo, thats her job...to be of service to the church members. For us, it was 5-10 minutes of warm up time, then dh would leave (no way was this going to happen if i was the drop off person!), and one of us would stand in the hall out of dds sight and get a thumbs up from one of the nursery workers after 5 minutes, then maybe once more. And, of course, they would put our number up on the screen in the sanctuary if she became inconsolable, and we would go get her.

Good luck. I know how you feel with the spiritually starved thing..its really been weighing on me lately!

[♥ms.pacman♥]

just read your updates. with a DC that age i would have found it very hard to regularly attend a church without a crying room. i used it heavily when the kids were toddlers. i don't think i could have done without it. our church had a nursery but i wasn't 100% gung-ho about it plus it filled up SO fast (mass would be at 10:00, all spots were gone by 9:50, so if we were a bit late, too bad). so i guess i'd look around for a church that offers a crying room. hugs!

[BunnyBee]

See- I would never ever attend church again before I would drop my young kid off with a virtual stranger that supposedly the church checked out and trained--um, the background checks aren't that thorough (usually just state hwy patrol, that is hardly a check), and who knows what training the church does. I get that it's for just an hour or so but I would have a HUGE problem with that. I have worked in daycares and seen a lot of good and bad but always universally parents were welcomed in.

In the churches I have attended in the past, that was the setup. The nursery has a half-door that's always open. Parents are welcome to stand in the hall, but unless you are working in the nursery that day, you stay in the hallway. Sometimes there's also a large one-way mirror/window. There's also always been a room with a couple of rocking chairs and a few books and toys where you can go with your own child.

I don't think a free, volunteer-run church nursery will ever mimic a NAEYC daycare. The parents in a daycare are screened to an extent. There's an application process, interview, often a credit check. The parents also don't just wander in/out. There's a security process. That's not going to be practical in a small church nursery with any number of unknown, unscreened parents. Plus, your child will be there for an hour, maybe hour and a half. The volunteers gladly will give your child to you. From having worked in the nursery, passing a kid over the door to an "unseen" adult did not upset the other kids, but opening the door (necessary for an adult to come or go) meant a toddler herd trying to escape. The other side of the door is exciting!

[vonfirmath]

Note ours is not even a door. Its a half-wall with a low door in to allow egress when necessary. The room can not be completely closed off, ever. It's not built that way. The adults are welcome to stay and watch from the other side of the wall. And you are always welcome to take your kids into worship service with you if you are not comfortable with the preschool rules.

[BunnyBee]

I really appreciate all the feedback, and those who see my side of this are making me feel a lot less crazy. I do understand the slip policy and I absolutely am aware of the possibilities of relative pickup. In this case, the slip was LOST. As in, I had the waxy piece of paper and the sticker literally fell of and was gone (maybe they need to replace printer cartridge). What was I supposed to do? I know for a fact that the sticker system is laxly enforced for the older kids because the director knows most of the families. despite her memory we have met each other multiple times. For her to ask AGAIN for the sticker I said I didn't right after she applogized for not recognizing my husband was ridiculous. She clearly recognized and knew me and to emphasize the sticker "policy" after our previous encounter.....I don't know....I really felt like she was on a power trip at that point.

The reason I am feeling really emotional about this right now is that I have not sat through more than 2 or 3 church services over the last two years and I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm feeling spiritually starved but I am not able to get past this issue and DS is NOT going into the service. It's completely out of the question. So yes I feel like the rule and her attitude were both unreasonable but I am torn about pulling DDs out of a church where they are happy.

My parents have had my grandmother living with them for several years. She has Alzheimer's and cannot be left alone, and now is unable to sit through a church service. Until they found a sitter they trusted (and now if she can't come), they alternated attending church service. It's not ideal, but they were able to maintain their connection with the church. Can you and DH alternate for the time being? The nursery set up at your church may not be ideal for your DS at this age, but maybe in 6 months, he and you will be in different stages.

[westwoodmom04]

My parents have had my grandmother living with them for several years. She has Alzheimer's and cannot be left alone, and now is unable to sit through a church service. Until they found a sitter they trusted (and now if she can't come), they alternated attending church service. It's not ideal, but they were able to maintain their connection with the church. Can you and DH alternate for the time being? The nursery set up at your church may not be ideal for your DS at this age, but maybe in 6 months, he and you will be in different stages.

Alternatively, maybe one of you could attend a different service (perhaps on Saturday or a different time on sunday), and then stayed home with the baby, while the others attend the main service.

On a different topic, I don't think all NAYEC certified preschools have an open door policy. Ours didn't. Parents of the young twos were allowed to walk their kids into the classroom and put their things in their cubby and then had to leave immediately. All other kids had to either be dropped off via carpool or left with the teacher at the school door. There was a one hour orientation the first day of school which parents could attend with child, but parent was encouraged to leave in the middle. The school very strongly felt this was the best way to get kids adjusted. I know of other local NAYEC preschools that let parents stay in the classroom and others that won't; I don't think it has anything to do with certification; more a question of the school's philosophy.

[buddyleebaby]

One of the things I love about my church is that they understand that kids are kids and welcome them as they are. There is a nursery and a Sunday school room for parents who want to use them, and there is a speaker in the parish hall. There is a section of the sanctuary itself where a couple of pews were removed to make room for a play rug and a basket of toys for wiggly babies. There are always bags of Cheerios, crayons/paper, etc. in the back of the church.
I never felt comfortable leaving my babies in the nursery and I always took them into the service with me. No one ever made me feel unwelcome, if anything they went out of their way to show me that they appreciated my effort to come to church every Sunday, with small children, and support me in that effort.
I have been to churches who feel that children should be kept out of the service until they are older, and while I understand their position, I don't agree with it. If I ever felt unwelcome/judged/belittled while in service, that would be a sign to me to keep looking for my church home. I would advise you to give it a couple of weeks and see how you feel.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jamie-bruesehoff/parents-kids-church_b_3909085.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

[maybeebaby08]

I really appreciate all the feedback, and those who see my side of this are making me feel a lot less crazy. I do understand the slip policy and I absolutely am aware of the possibilities of relative pickup. In this case, the slip was LOST. As in, I had the waxy piece of paper and the sticker literally fell of and was gone (maybe they need to replace printer cartridge). What was I supposed to do? I know for a fact that the sticker system is laxly enforced for the older kids because the director knows most of the families. despite her memory we have met each other multiple times. For her to ask AGAIN for the sticker I said I didn't right after she applogized for not recognizing my husband was ridiculous. She clearly recognized and knew me and to emphasize the sticker "policy" after our previous encounter.....I don't know....I really felt like she was on a power trip at that point.

The reason I am feeling really emotional about this right now is that I have not sat through more than 2 or 3 church services over the last two years and I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm feeling spiritually starved but I am not able to get past this issue and DS is NOT going into the service. It's completely out of the question. So yes I feel like the rule and her attitude were both unreasonable but I am torn about pulling DDs out of a church where they are happy.

I think her attitude of a power trip would really put me off too, and elevate my emotions. If you like the church in the other areas, I agree with PP's about switching weeks with DH and one person staying home with DH. It won't be forever but it'll feed you spiritually and keep you connected with the church. I think this problem is very common with young DCs ( or it is among my friends.) I've always been very active in church but since DDs have been born it's hard to attend regularly and be involved.

[Melaine]

Yeah alternating sundays could happen. Except i would have to push DH out the door every week because he is such a huge introvert. For a while just the girls and I went but then I was frustrated that no one was getting to know our whole family. It just seems like so many people are super active in the church with young kids and I just feel sad that I get in the way of us connecting with other families in this way.

Update: She called and left a message, I called back and we had a very positive conversation. She apologized, I apologized. We talked about solutions. I also had a chance to give my feedback about health, safety and TV. I do feel better about the situation and I think I will consider going through the volunteer process and just go in each week with him. I no longer feel like my only option is leaving the church, so I do feel better.

[anonomom]

I'm glad it worked out. :hug: