Update in #101 :Neighbors spraying my dog with a hose??

[Pennylane]

Not sure if I posted about this before in the bitching post, but now asking for advice. We live on a large lot( over 1 acre) as do all of our neighbors. Our fences do connect though and my neighbors behind us having started putting their garden up right along the fence line. Just got home and let me dog out and he sees the people working in their garden and immediately runs up to the fence and starts barking. I look outside after a few minutes of him doing this and see them spraying him with a hose through the fence. I opened the door and yelled for him and they quickly stopped. I am just ticked off !! They have an acre or more and yet choose to put their garden right up against the fence? Nothing I can do about the dog, he isn't outside very much anyway just to use the restroom.

Is there anyone I can call about this?

Thanks,

Ann

[mommylamb]

That's really mean of them.

I'm the type of person who is more comfortable with confrontation than most. I would say something to them. I'd let them know you saw it and ask why they did it. Explain the obvious, that you have a fence to keep your dog on your property. Reiterate that the dog is not out and barking constantly, nor is he barking in the middle of the night.

[Pennylane]

That's really mean of them.

I'm the type of person who is more comfortable with confrontation than most. I would say something to them. I'd let them know you saw it and ask why they did it. Explain the obvious, that you have a fence to keep your dog on your property. Reiterate that the dog is not out and barking constantly, nor is he barking in the middle of the night.

Should have mentioned that they don't speak English! I think one person might but he is never at home.

He is a big dog and I can only imagine that it is annoying to them, but imo this is just being mean!


Ann

[BunnyBee]

I don't let my dogs keep barking. Once they bark, I go to the door and tell them to be quiet, then they get called in if they don't listen. How long was a few minutes? Letting the dog sit there and bark at them was annoying to them and the other neighbors who have to listen. I'd be ticked at them for spraying the dog absolutely--the dog is doing what dogs do, but not enough to call the authorities. If it were a person, the water spray could be assault, but I doubt the police would do anything for a dog, and it would escalate the issue.

[icunurse]

I would let this one go and keep a watch in the future. It was water from a hose, which is a way to deter many animals (check out gardening catalogs). It wasn't a high-powered hose, I am guessing. The dog probably shook it off. They have a right to build a garden wherever they want, just as your dog has the right to roam over the whole yard. But if they do it again, then, yes, you have the right to talk to them about it and tell them that you don't want your dog sprayed with water. As both an avid gardener and a dog owner, it would annoy me to hear a dog barking if it was happening every time I gardened. I wouldn't spray the dog (I don't encourage confrontation :)), but I would not be happy. But I also wouldn't be upset if my neighbors sprayed my barking dog if she wouldn't stop after a few encounters. But that's just me.

[Pennylane]

I don't let my dogs keep barking. Once they bark, I go to the door and tell them to be quiet, then they get called in if they don't listen. How long was a few minutes? Letting the dog sit there and bark at them was annoying to them and the other neighbors who have to listen. I'd be ticked at them for spraying the dog absolutely--the dog is doing what dogs do, but not enough to call the authorities. If it were a person, the water spray could be assault, but I doubt the police would do anything for a dog, and it would escalate the issue.

He had been there for about 3 minutes I'm guessing. I yelled for him once I realized why he was barking and that is when I saw them spraying. I also hate barking dogs and like I said, my dog is not one that wants to be in the yard unless it is with us or going to the bathroom. But I do have to let him out to pee and it is my yard!

Ann

[squimp]

So many people don't like barking dogs. I have lived in areas where there was a dog barking every time I went outside my house. Granted I have never sprayed someone else's dog with water, but it gets old fast. Clearly not acceptable to spray your dogs, but obviously they are bothered. So I'm not sure what their issue is, but this could be a good opportunity to have a conversation with them.

[hillview]

ok so I will be the voice of dissent and say that I can understand someone spraying my dog if it was barking near them (even behind a fence). I would likely write it off and hope that the dog learned something. I have a dog that I love.

[kdeunc]

In my opinion you need to tell your neighbors that spraying your dogs is not acceptable. I have two dogs that my neighbors hate. They started spraying them with water and then vinegar when they were puppies. Our female dog hates them now and will bark any time she sees them. This has caused huge issues and the neighbors have brought the barking on themselves. They tormented the dogs. We never left our dogs outside when we were not home. No other neighbors have an issue with our dogs or the other 10 dogs in a block radius from our house! I will say that my neighbors are crazy. They complain about the dogs and then continue to come as close to our fence as possible for activities including throwing a Frisbee for their dog so it bounces off of our fence. In our case it has resulted in police involvement (us calling not them) and according to the police they cannot do anything to our dogs including spraying them with a hose. It is bad enough that we put our house on the market. Good luck!

[twowhat?]

Geez I would never spray someone else's dog with hose unless I was in danger of being bitten!

I guess I would give this a pass as well but keep an eye on it. Hopefully they won't be out there gardening all day and your dog can enjoy your own yard most of the time. Hopefully it will not happen again since they know that you saw them do it.

If they don't speak English it definitely wouldn't help to try to talk to them.

[Pennylane]

Geez I would never spray someone else's dog with hose unless I was in danger of being bitten!

I guess I would give this a pass as well but keep an eye on it. Hopefully they won't be out there gardening all day and your dog can enjoy your own yard most of the time. Hopefully it will not happen again since they know that you saw them do it.

If they don't speak English it definitely wouldn't help to try to talk to them.

Yes, I think this is what I will do. I've lived here for almost 2 years and these people have never spoken to anything to me, I wave and say hello and they pretty much ignore me. Which is fine!

I don't leave my dog out as I too hate dogs that bark all day! But I do have to let him out and will just keep an eye on it for a bit.

Thanks all,

Ann

[daisysmom]

I think they have a right to put their garden whereever on their lot that they want to. But how close to the dog were they when they were spraying him? Was it through a chain link fence? Or over a fence? Or through the slots of a slatted fence? I would be very upset... I have 2 dogs, neither of whom are big barkers. But dogs are dogs, they bark... and most of them go to the bathroom outside. Honestly, if this was my neighbor, depending on how factually this happened (how old were they, how close to the fence, were they just playing/being menaces or were they really trying to hurt the dog), I would be worried that they might do something else to hurt the dog. I never understand how it happens, but I have seen neighbors really do mean things to a dog who is helpless to defend itself. I can imagine that spraying a barking dog could be harmless, but I could also imagine it being the first of other things that would not be harmless. I know a story where neighbors irritated with a dog held meat up and taunted the dog until the dog accidentally got his collar stuck on the fence and died. Not trying to be graphic here, but people do horrible things to animals. And... I would not tolerate spraying a pet with water unless you were in physical danger. So yes, I would be worried. If you lived near me, our SPCA would be all over this.

[rin]

ok so I will be the voice of dissent and say that I can understand someone spraying my dog if it was barking near them (even behind a fence). I would likely write it off and hope that the dog learned something. I have a dog that I love.
:yeahthat:

I personally would not escalate this any further at this point. The spraying may convince your dog not to bark at them in the future!

[Nooknookmom]

That's really mean of them.

I'm the type of person who is more comfortable with confrontation than most. I would say something to them. I'd let them know you saw it and ask why they did it. Explain the obvious, that you have a fence to keep your dog on your property. Reiterate that the dog is not out and barking constantly, nor is he barking in the middle of the night.

I'd also say something then spray the idiot neighbor. If they are hanging over your property line - that's a big no no. I'd also report it EVERY time it happens bc thats animal cruelty. What if it exacerbates into something more and they do something harmful? You need a record of these incidents.

I'm very mad at them for you!!!!!

[Nooknookmom]

I'd also say something then spray the idiot neighbor. If they are hanging over your property line - that's a big no no. I'd also report it EVERY time it happens bc thats animal cruelty. What if it exacerbates into something more and they do something harmful? You need a record of these incidents.

I'm very mad at them for you!!!!!


Eta-just remembered a client of ours had his dog sprayed by his neighbor. Our cliemt got mad and hid outside and watched them...dog (mini pinscher) wasn't even barking they were spraying it!! So he popped up and let them have it. No more spray but the guy is still a jerk neighbor....

[Rainbows&Roses]

:yeahthat:

I personally would not escalate this any further at this point. The spraying may convince your dog not to bark at them in the future!

if my neighbor's dog were barking at me for 3 minutes, I would spray him too (and with a garden hose from a distance of at least a few feet, that is NOT animal cruelty). Obviously barking dogs don't annoy OP that much if you listened to the dog barking for 3 minutes straight.

[Pennylane]

if my neighbor's dog were barking at me for 3 minutes, I would spray him too (and with a garden hose from a distance of at least a few feet, that is NOT animal cruelty). Obviously barking dogs don't annoy OP that much if you listened to the dog barking for 3 minutes straight.

Barking dogs make me crazy actually. I was doing something with my dc as we had just gotten home from school. Since our yard is completely fenced in, I didn't rush out to check , although I think 3 minutes is pretty quick to get outside.

I have to say that I am surprised that people are saying that they would spray an animal that was not on their property and that is hardly ever outside. I guess I can understand if this happened all day, everyday (although even then I wouldn't do it) .


Ann

[Pennylane]

I'd also say something then spray the idiot neighbor. If they are hanging over your property line - that's a big no no. I'd also report it EVERY time it happens bc thats animal cruelty. What if it exacerbates into something more and they do something harmful? You need a record of these incidents.

I'm very mad at them for you!!!!!

It's funny because they have all this crap up against my fence when they put up their garden....boxes and ropes, milk containers, etc and I never thought about saying a word even though it is an eye sore!

They are very quiet neighbors and I barely see them except when they garden. I don't want to start anything with them but also don't my dog not to be able to go out!

Ann

[egoldber]

I think people have different tolerance levels when it comes to dogs and barking. You also don't know if perhaps someone there has an intense fear of dogs, etc. Personally, I don't think spraying a dog with a garden hose is cruel. While I would personally be annoyed after 3 minutes of barking, I don't think I would do anything about it in that short of a time. But I can see in a moment of annoyance and irritation, especially if the hose was already in my hand while I was gardening, that I might spray.

What kind of dog is it?

ETA: I have owned a dog and like dogs.

[kdeunc]

In our case spraying my dog with a hose did not make her stop barking. It made her bark even more because it aggitated her and because she was getting attention. She is a big dog who likes water. You might want to mention to the neighbors that spraying her is not likely to make her stop. I completely agree that your dog has the right to go outside and use the bathroom. A dog barking for a few minutes is not unreasonable.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

.

I have to say that I am surprised that people are saying that they would spray an animal that was not on their property and that is hardly ever outside.

:yeahthat: i am kind of surprised too. i am not a pet person, and i don't own dogs. DD is TERRIFIED of most dogs. Yet i think spraying a dog that is not on your property, just bc it is barking close by for a few minutes, with a water hose is just, i don't know, cruel and mean. I can't imagine doing that to a dog unless you were in fear of getting hurt, or maybe if it was on your property somehow and you were afraid it would mess up your garden or whatever.

[123LuckyMom]

It's a shame about the language barrier! If that weren't an issue, I would go over the next time you see them outside and say, "I'm sorry about the barking the other day. I called the dog in as soon as I realized. I think using the hose isn't the best deterrent. It's likely to make the dog bark more. I'll do my very best to make sure I call the dog in when I hear barking, but I ask you not to use the hose on the dog again. It won't work as a deterrent, will probably increase the problem, and causes a problem for me since the dog then comes inside soaking wet."

In the absence of being able to have that conversation, I'm not sure what you can do except run out if it happens again and try to communicate the same sort of idea.

Our dog is fenced, but none of the neighbors' dogs are despite leash laws. We have neighbors who let their dangerous dog (he's bitten neighbors) run the fence line challenging our poor golden retriever who didn't have a territorial none in his body! It made him territorial and caused him to become a barker. It was infuriating, and very unfair to the whole neighborhood! Spraying the dog in it's own territory is likely to have a similar effect. I would try hard to keep your dog away from them. I might even erect an interior fence in that area so their hose can't reach your dog. If the dog has an acre fenced, losing a little space probably won't make a difference.

[daisysmom]

:yeahthat: i am kind of surprised too. i am not a pet person, and i don't own dogs. DD is TERRIFIED of most dogs. Yet i think spraying a dog that is not on your property, just bc it is barking close by for a few minutes, with a water hose is just, i don't know, cruel and mean. I can't imagine doing that to a dog unless you were in fear of getting hurt, or maybe if it was on your property somehow and you were afraid it would mess up your garden or whatever.

People that don't think spraying with a garden hose is cruel - go ahead and stand up and ask your child to take the garden hose, put it on full, jet or one of the other settings (not "gentle shower") and have them spray you in the face. See how you like it. This is mind boggling to me that someone doesn't think this is cruel.

[rin]

People that don't think spraying with a garden hose is cruel - go ahead and stand up and ask your child to take the garden hose, put it on full, jet or one of the other settings (not "gentle shower") and have them spray you in the face. See how you like it. This is mind boggling to me that someone doesn't think this is cruel.

I say that it is not cruel. I have a dog who I love very much. Dogs are animals, not children, and not people. There are behavior management techniques used to help dogs be safe around people or other dogs (gentle leaders, muzzles, even collars) that would be considered cruel or abusive if used on a person. This does not mean that they are inappropriate for dogs.

The phrase "spraying a dog with a hose" could mean a whole range of actions, honestly. I do not necessarily interpret it as being sprayed with the hose on full force in the face. Just like most things, there could certainly be some instances of hose spraying (a long time, spraying when an animal is trying to get away, spraying in the face, etc) that IMO would be cruel. I do not think that every hose-spraying should be considered cruel.

[egoldber]

Well, my dog actually loved the hose. It was a game. So no, I don't think it is necessarily cruel. While I am sure it can be done in a cruel manner, that isn't necessarily so. The size of the dog makes a difference to me as well. My dog was small, but sturdy.


put it on full, jet or one of the other settings (not "gentle shower") and have them spray you in the face

That's not what the OP said. She said this:


spraying him with a hose through the fence

To *me*, that does not imply high velocity, full spray.

I do agree that it may not actually have the intended effect, if the intent was to get the dog to stop barking.

[babyonway]

I have to say that I am surprised that people are saying that they would spray an animal that was not on their property and that is hardly ever outside. I guess I can understand if this happened all day, everyday (although even then I wouldn't do it) .


:yeahthat: and I am not a dog owner. That is what dogs do... they bark. When kids are outside they scream and yell when they are having fun and I am sure that that can annoy many folks but would anyone advocate spraying water on a playing child?

Sorry to be the voice of decent buy I am not understanding how spraying a dog after 3 minutes of barking is at all acceptable.

[Piglet]

OT: Am I the only one in awe that there are people out gardening right now??? We have 2 feet of snow in our back yard!

[KLD313]

I can't believe people think 3 mins of barking is some awful thing and they have the right to spray a dog. I would say something. You could always get a bark collar for when the dog goes out if you don't want to deal w the neighbors.

[arivecchi]

It's a shame about the language barrier! If that weren't an issue, I would go over the next time you see them outside and say, "I'm sorry about the barking the other day. I called the dog in as soon as I realized. I think using the hose isn't the best deterrent. It's likely to make the dog bark more. I'll do my very best to make sure I call the dog in when I hear barking, but I ask you not to use the hose on the dog again. It won't work as a deterrent, will probably increase the problem, and causes a problem for me since the dog then comes inside soaking wet."

I agree with this approach. Can you write them a note instead to make sure there is no miscommunication? What language do they speak? Can you write them a note in their language? If you live in an HOA, I would ask if there are guidelines about barking dogs and perhaps report the incident. While I would not want to escalate things, I would want some sort of record in the event they do something worse.

Also, I do think that spraying a dog after a couple of minutes of barking is ridiculous. Reminds me of that guy on a plane who slapped a toddler in the face for crying too much for his liking.

[egoldber]

I can't believe people think 3 mins of barking is some awful thing and they have the right to spray a dog.

Well, I don't think most people said that. They said they didn't think it was in and of itself cruel. And that for some people, 3 minutes of barking would drive them crazy.

[hillview]

So to clarify it would depend on some things, I can imagine a situation where a dog is up against the fence barking in an aggressive way and the other people spray water over the fence at the dog (not on hard in the dog's face) being pretty ok really or where they are watering their garden and the water comes through the fence onto a dog barking right at them. I can also see a situation where the dog is sprayed in a cruel way which would of course be not ok at all.

I can see if I was outside watering my garden and MY DOG was barking through a fence at the neighbors and I told him to stop and he didn't and he kept going for 2-3 minutes that I would spray him with water :) I am really not cruel!

I think if it really bothers you and you feel it was done in a cruel way that you should write up a note asking them not to water your dog.

[rin]

I can see if I was outside watering my garden and MY DOG was barking through a fence at the neighbors and I told him to stop and he didn't and he kept going for 2-3 minutes that I would spray him with water :) I am really not cruel!

:yeahthat:

I actually spray my kids all the time in the summer with the hose. They love it. If I'm watering and they come near, I'll turn the hose on them (*certainly* not full force) and they giggle and run away, and then come back to have me do it again. It's a game that they adore doing when I'm watering, to the point where we've had to explicitly lay down rules about how you don't go running into the hose stream when you're wearing clothes, you have to be wearing a bathing suit and/or water shoes, etc. The hose is not inherently a cruel torture device.

[KLD313]

Well, I don't think most people said that. They said they didn't think it was in and of itself cruel. And that for some people, 3 minutes of barking would drive them crazy.

I didn't say all people said that and I don't think it's cruel but I don't think the neighbor has the right to do it. If my neighbor did that to my dog I would be mad.

[lkoala]

I'm curious as to what culture they are from. There are many cultures that don't treat dogs/cats with the same care we do. They may not think they are doing anything wrong. However, the fact that they did stop when they saw you come out seems like they know they shouldn't be doing it.

I would go over and try to talk to them in a non-aggressive manner. Tell them that it hurts your dog when they spray him.

I wonder if they don't want your dog by the part of the fence where their garden is because they don't want him to do his business in that area. Obviously they shouldn't build their garden right up against the fence if that is the case but maybe that is another motive for spraying water at him.

Overall, I think you're not going to be able to make the decision on what to do until you talk to them and find out where they are coming from. If its a misunderstanding, its easier to fix with a request to not spray the dog. If they are trying to hurt the dog, you know the next step may be to contact the police.

[BunnyBee]

Well, my dog actually loved the hose. It was a game. So no, I don't think it is necessarily cruel. While I am sure it can be done in a cruel manner, that isn't necessarily so. The size of the dog makes a difference to me as well. My dog was small, but sturdy.



That's not what the OP said. She said this:



To *me*, that does not imply high velocity, full spray.

I do agree that it may not actually have the intended effect, if the intent was to get the dog to stop barking.

I agree. We have a dog who loves playing with the hose. She runs between what we are spraying every time. We also wash her outside when it's warm enough with a hose. My kids play in the hose water too.

I'd never spray a neighbor's dog through a fence with the hose. It's rude and stupid. Unless it's a pressure washer, I don't think it's *cruel* on its face. If the dog were being hurt by or didn't like the water, wouldn't it run away? My dog would stay at the fence and keep barking for more water. They make motion-activated sprinklers to keep unwanted animals out of places like flower beds, and they work (somewhat for dogs, more for cats) because dogs don't like to be startled.

Anyway, it doesn't scream animal cruelty to me. The dog wasn't being sprayed while in a crate or tied up and couldn't leave. It is really crappy both behaviorally (as dog stayed at the fence and wasn't deterred) and neighborly. Animal cruelty in my mind is something that endangers the welfare of the animal. Animal cruelty is not the same as child cruelty. I crate my dogs, walk them on leashes, do all kinds of things I would never do to a child. My dogs wrestle on the floor, chewing ears and body-slamming each other and like it. Did the OP say she had a boxer? That's not a fluffy, delicate dog. Definitely cannot equate what would be painful to a human child to a dog. It's just not the same, and I love dogs!

[daisysmom]

Both of our dogs (labs, and then a chessie before that) loved "playing hose" but it was a game. It was intended to be a game. It was not intended to hurt the dog or shush the barking. I got the impression from the OP (and maybe I was wrong) that the neighbors were not doing it to play with her dog, to entertain the dog, or to engage with the dog. I got the impression they were spraying to hurt the dog.

OP also said that she could see all the flowerpots/gardening stuff against the fence. I still wonder what kind of fence it is? If it is just a chain link fence, that worries me. If it is a slat fence where the water wasn't coming full force on the dog, I think I feel differently. Still their motive was not to play or engage or have fun (which is what we do when we play hose with our dog or with kids). Their motive was to hurt/scare/punish the dog (I guess I don't know that for sure, but that is the impression I have).

If it was the neighbor's dog and they wanted to spray it, that's their decision. But if someone was being cruel to my dog on my property, than I have a serious problem with it. I have seen a lot of abused dogs -- I am overly sensitive on this issue. But there is no way I would tolerate this.

[mackmama]

That's really mean of them.

I'm the type of person who is more comfortable with confrontation than most. I would say something to them. I'd let them know you saw it and ask why they did it. Explain the obvious, that you have a fence to keep your dog on your property. Reiterate that the dog is not out and barking constantly, nor is he barking in the middle of the night.

:yeahthat: Wow I'd be really upset if someone sprayed my dog with a hose. It sounds like you called him in right away when he was barking. I would talk to them or find someone who can translate for you. If they do it again, I'd call the sheriff or the humane society and ask their opinion.

[LBW]

It's funny because they have all this crap up against my fence when they put up their garden....boxes and ropes, milk containers, etc and I never thought about saying a word even though it is an eye sore!

I'd consider adding privacy fence panels along the back portion of the fence. This way you don't need to see their crap anymore, your dog may not bark at them, and they probably won't be able to spray the dog.

[rin]

Wow I'd be really upset if someone sprayed my dog with a hose.

While it would depend on the particulars (how long the dog had been barking, how they were spraying my dog) I would not mind at all. When other adults are around my kids/dog and see behavior that they think is socially unacceptable (say, excessive barking or a child hitting another child) I am happy when they reinforce the social messages that we ourselves promote in our family, rather than coming to me to tell me about it and asking me to handle it. I am happy when my kids/dog get to hear the same messages from other members of our community, so they know that it's not just me/us. I realize that this varies, but to me this is the same as if we were at the park and my kid pushed another kid in front of another parent; I would be grateful if the other parent addressed the pushing right then and there rather than waiting for me to come over to address it.

(I know that people can certainly be cruel or unkind to fenced dogs, and I'm not suggesting that anything goes for a neighbor's pet. We had an issue with our neighbors where their 9ish yo grandson and one of his friends were throwing rocks at our dog and barking at her to antagonize her. That, IMO, is a totally different kind of situation from someone turning a garden hose on a dog for a moment when the dog is barking at them out in their own garden.)

[♥ms.pacman♥]

I got the impression from the OP (and maybe I was wrong) that the neighbors were not doing it to play with her dog, to entertain the dog, or to engage with the dog. I got the impression they were spraying to hurt the dog.

OP also said that she could see all the flowerpots/gardening stuff against the fence. I still wonder what kind of fence it is? If it is just a chain link fence, that worries me. If it is a slat fence where the water wasn't coming full force on the dog, I think I feel differently. Still their motive was not to play or engage or have fun (which is what we do when we play hose with our dog or with kids). Their motive was to hurt/scare/punish the dog (I guess I don't know that for sure, but that is the impression I have).

this is how i see it. if it is a slat fence l ike ours i probably woudlnt' be as upset. but a chain link or other that is more transparent, i'd be more mad.

our lots are small (definitely not 1 acre) and our next door neighbor had a dog. also the ppl behind us have one. occasionally one of them would bark for a few minutes at something (a rabbit, or whatever). dd will get super scared, stop playing and want to jump in my lap. sure its annoying bc we have to stop what we're doing and we have to tell dd it's ok, the dog is behind the fence and can't get her. sometimes we'd have to go in bc she wanted to go in. i figure that is part of life, living in existence with other people and animals. but never in my wildest dreams would i think to turn a hose on a dog, even through the fence, bc it was barking for a few minutes (during the day!). that would just seems super unnecessary, not to mention ineffective. if i saw my DC doing something like that i would definitely discipline him/her. it just does not seem very nice or neighborly.

[OKKiddo]

I have two Basset Hounds. They're extremely friendly and bark to say "hello" to anyone as they go by. Their bark isn't a bark though--it's a loud arooooo. One of them is also afraid of the color yellow. Don't ask me how he can see it because he does. A yellow feather duster, a yellow dust mop, a yellow bag, a yellow ball. All of them make him shake and run sideways to get away from it. If there's a yellow ANYTHING, ANYWHERE where he can see it in our yard or outside the fence, he'll spend his entire time AROOO'ing at it. I try to stop him and then usually try to find what's making him bark. If I can't find it, he comes right back in with us. If your neighbors have items in their garden that make noise, flap, or are intended to shoo bugs or birds I can see that being a issue with your dog barking. I definitely agree with adding privacy panels for your yard.

[BunnyBee]

I'd consider adding privacy fence panels along the back portion of the fence. This way you don't need to see their crap anymore, your dog may not bark at them, and they probably won't be able to spray the dog.

:yeahthat:

[TwinFoxes]

i figure that is part of life, living in existence with other people and animals. but never in my wildest dreams would i think to turn a hose on a dog, even through the fence, bc it was barking for a few minutes (during the day!). that would just seems super unnecessary, not to mention ineffective. if i saw my DC doing something like that i would definitely discipline him/her. it just does not seem very nice or neighborly.

:yeahthat: I completely agree with this. "I was disturbed for three minutes, so is will take matter into my own hands". How do people function in society if they're so easily disturbed? I just can't imagine having the cajones to spray another person's property, especially a living creature, because of three minutes, or even 10 minutes of annoyance. I guess it's not so surprising people are getting shot for texting in theaters or playing their stereos too loudly.

I get annoyed at things, but I just can't imagine being so upset at one incidence of a barking dog, crying baby, random kids being loud on their bikes, whatever. If it happens over and over, sure make a call, write a note. But how about a little neighborliness to start? (Would no one be worried that their neighbor would go ballistic if you sprayed their dog?)

OP, I like PPs suggestion of apologizing, and asking them not to spray your dog. Good luck!

[daisysmom]

:yeahthat: I completely agree with this. "I was disturbed for three minutes, so is will take matter into my own hands". How do people function in society if they're so easily disturbed? I just can't imagine having the cajones to spray another person's property, especially a living creature, because of three minutes, or even 10 minutes of annoyance. I guess it's not so surprising people are getting shot for texting in theaters or playing their stereos too loudly.

I get annoyed at things, but I just can't imagine being so upset at one incidence of a barking dog, crying baby, random kids being loud on their bikes, whatever. If it happens over and over, sure make a call, write a note. But how about a little neighborliness to start? (Would no one be worried that their neighbor would go ballistic if you sprayed their dog?)

OP, I like PPs suggestion of apologizing, and asking them not to spray your dog. Good luck!

I agree with all of this. The crying baby is another point. What if you were in an appartment and you heard a crying baby in the middle of the night upstairs. It irritated you, but you liked loud music so you blasted your music to drown out the crying baby. Dogs bark. Babies cry. Both of those are unfortunate realities of life in communities. There are noise ordinances for a reason -- but if the barking doesn't violate the noice ordinance, then that's life. I agree it is disruptive... we had a barking dog nextdoor in my first house (I didn't have a dog then) and it was incredibly irritating on Saturday and Sunday mornings. But that is part of living in a neighborhood. If you want a place where dogs don't bark, then you have to find a homeowner's association where dog ownership is prohibited. But I can't believe that spraying someone else's dog, barking or whatever, is deemed ok.

[rin]

I agree with all of this. The crying baby is another point. What if you were in an appartment and you heard a crying baby in the middle of the night upstairs. It irritated you, but you liked loud music so you blasted your music to drown out the crying baby. Dogs bark. Babies cry. Both of those are unfortunate realities of life in communities. There are noise ordinances for a reason -- but if the barking doesn't violate the noice ordinance, then that's life. I agree it is disruptive... we had a barking dog nextdoor in my first house (I didn't have a dog then) and it was incredibly irritating on Saturday and Sunday mornings. But that is part of living in a neighborhood. If you want a place where dogs don't bark, then you have to find a homeowner's association where dog ownership is prohibited. But I can't believe that spraying someone else's dog, barking or whatever, is deemed ok.

And yet it would be ok with me. I personally would not spray someone else's dog due to barking (I frankly don't mind barking dogs, maybe from living in urban environments (?), and am very good at tuning out noises like barking dogs, car alarms, sirens, etc) but if my neighbor was bothered by our dog barking I'd be perfectly ok with him/her trying to address it by turning the hose on the dog. To me, if something bothers you and you have a safe and reasonable way to try to address it without involving me, I am happy not to be involved. If it continues, then sure, let's work together to find a solution, but it sounds like the neighbors in this case had an idea for something that might nip it in the bud.

I agree that putting up privacy paneling sounds like a perfect next step in this case.

ETA: The crying baby/loud music example is IMO very different; (a) most apartment buildings have some sort of nighttime noise ordinance, and (b) turning up the music is not in any way an attempt to get the baby to stop crying, it is just an attempt to presumably drown out the sound and possibly irritate every other resident of the apartment building. Turning the hose on the dog is an attempt to modify the dog's behavior.

[California]

I'd be quite tempted to buy a rain jacket for the dog and send him out there in it the next time the neighbors are gardening. It'll at least give you a good laugh!

[TwinFoxes]

I'd be quite tempted to buy a rain jacket for the dog and send him out there in it the next time the neighbors are gardening. It'll at least give you a good laugh!

:rotflmao:That would be awesome.

[Tenasparkl]

I don't think I'd call it cruel, but I'd certainly call it rude & unneighborly. Obviously nobody wants to hear a neighbors dog barking when you're trying to spend time in your own yard, but spraying goes too far IMO. I'd be very unhappy about bringing a wet dog back into the house or having to keep it out there longer to dry off.

[BabyBearsMom]

Maybe the next time they are working in the garden near your fence, you can turn the hose on them and they can see how it feels? :30:

[SnuggleBuggles]

I don't think I'd call it cruel, but I'd certainly call it rude & unneighborly. Obviously nobody wants to hear a neighbors dog barking when you're trying to spend time in your own yard, but spraying goes too far IMO. I'd be very unhappy about bringing a wet dog back into the house or having to keep it out there longer to dry off.

:yeahthat: I like the idea of the passive aggressive apology upthread. :)

[Pennylane]

The fence is wrought iron, so very easy to spray through. My dog is very large, 100 pound boxer but a huge sweetie who wouldn't hurt a fly (although they have no way of knowing that). The family is Chinese and the people gardening are older, so I am assuming the parents of the couple that live there. I don't think he was sprayed hard enough to get hurt, but that's not the point. Are they going to start squirting my dc next because they are screaming on the trampoline :)

I guess I could do a privacy fence, but that would be a total PITA as I would have to have HOA approval and I'm sure they would want me to replace the entire fence.

Ann

[Pennylane]

I'd be quite tempted to buy a rain jacket for the dog and send him out there in it the next time the neighbors are gardening. It'll at least give you a good laugh!

Love this idea! Maybe I'll check petsmart this weekend !

Ann

[Green_Tea]

I am a dog lover, but would definitely be unnerved by a 100 lb boxer barking at me through a fairly open fence as I gardened. I think spraying the dog was unneighborly, but I also can understand being wary of/nervous about a large dog barking at me continuously from just a few feet away. My mom, who is not a dog lover, would spray the dog in a white hot minute because she's terrified of them.

Honestly, neither party is without fault here. I would not send the dog into the backyard unattended if the neighbors are outside, both for your sanity and theirs.

[Pennylane]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/22/he4yqe5e.jpg

Here's a picture .

Ann

[twowhat?]

I'd be quite tempted to buy a rain jacket for the dog and send him out there in it the next time the neighbors are gardening. It'll at least give you a good laugh!

BWAAA HAHAHA!!!! Hilarious!!!!

Well, FWIW that culture isn't exactly the most dog-friendly...I have some family members overseas who love dogs (though they tend to be of the "wealthy with fancy small dog" type but the general consensus is "ewww, animal". DH's cousin spent several weeks with us - she's terrified of dogs - and one of our dogs is terrified of strangers. It made for HILARITY! At one point they walked past each other in the hallway, squeezing against opposite sides of the walls, casting unsure glances at each other as they eeeked their way by. Hahahahaha, I really wish I had that on video. In the end DH's cousin fell in love with them:)

Anyway yeah, I would supervise your dog outside if the neighbors are out. I'm hoping that it's easy to see from inside your house whether or not the neighbors are outside. Cuz it would suck to have to walk out there in inclement weather to check every time the dog needed a yard break :/ I hope the fact that they know you saw them do it will prevent them from doing it again. At least if you're there.

eta: What a lovely yard. If only you didn't have neighbors who thought it'd be OK to squirt your dog with a hose...

[ahisma]

I'm a dog lover, with a dog who is still learning not to bark. It wouldn't bother me. I think it's less confrontational than yelling at your dog, and I'm guessing that they were a bit unnerved.

We have great neighbors and honestly, I'd find it pretty hilarious if they sprayed our dog for barking. BUT, that's with the backstory of knowing that they love our dog and that we have a good relationship. It sounds like, for various reasons, you haven't had that opportunity to build that relationship. I think that maybe you'd feel differently if it was someone you were friendly with.

[jren]

I think the garden is somewhat of an eyesore smack up next to your fence. And I'm a gardener! Guess they wanted to watch you swim while they gardened? I would plant some screening bushes or trees along that area of the fence and avoid the problem all together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KrisM]

They can put their garden wherever on their property, I think. I don't think they need to have a buffer before your property. I would be really annoyed at a dog barking at me for 3 minutes. I don't like dogs at all. But, I wouldn't spray it with water. It wouldn't even occur to me to do that. Not sure what I'd do if I were you. Can you let him out on a side yard so he's not near the back fence if they are in the garden?

[sntm]

I think there is a big difference with an unattended dog that is barking for several minutes - a totally different scenario than a crying child. I'm a dog owner and that would drive me crazy. If my dog is outside and barking, I'm outside giving her commands to get her to stop and/or bringing her back inside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pennylane]

I think the garden is somewhat of an eyesore smack up next to your fence. And I'm a gardener! Guess they wanted to watch you swim while they gardened? I would plant some screening bushes or trees along that area of the fence and avoid the problem all together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a really good idea. I'm going to get my yard guy to give and estimate on doing something across that fence.

Ann

[Pennylane]

I think there is a big difference with an unattended dog that is barking for several minutes - a totally different scenario than a crying child. I'm a dog owner and that would drive me crazy. If my dog is outside and barking, I'm outside giving her commands to get her to stop and/or bringing her back inside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree, but does that mean I can't let my dog out in MY fenced in back yard to pee without escorting him every time?? I'm just not going to do that. There is 3 of them that sit right along my fence for a good 2 or 3 hours a day gardening.

Ann

[California]

If they left your dog alone or made friendly overtures eventually your dog would get used to them. I wonder if they realize that spraying the dog will just make him continue to bark every time he sees them since they've made themselves a threat.

[BunnyBee]

I agree, but does that mean I can't let my dog out in MY fenced in back yard to pee without escorting him every time?? I'm just not going to do that. There is 3 of them that sit right along my fence for a good 2 or 3 hours a day gardening.

Ann

Aren't they sitting along their fence? It's your responsibility to keep your dog from barking, whether that means escorting him, training him, putting up privacy fencing, whatever.

[twowhat?]

Maybe you could put up a tarp along that fence. :angry-smiley-005: That's not very neighborly, I'm halfway joking (because it'll also affect sun for their garden) but seriously - when you share a fenceline, there has to be compromise between the neighbors. In yards THAT big, they didn't HAVE to put their garden right there where it's best positioned to invade your privacy, view-wise! And I also don't think it's reasonable for you to escort your dog EVERY time he goes out. Your dog gets to enjoy the yard too.

This is such a PITA situation. Some shrubs as a privacy screen might be a good idea for the long-term because of privacy. But it will totally impact the amount of sun their garden gets! Still - you should be able to do with your property what you want, within reason. Spraying water beyond your property line on your neighbor's dog isn't cool. Putting a garden right there where you can see into your neighbors pool if there are other location options is kind of really not cool.

So, my vote right now is privacy hedge/shrubs. How big is that section of fence that you share with your neighbors? Could you plant screen shrubs along the entire thing? That would also give you much more privacy for your pool. I cannot imagine enjoying my backyard and pool with neighbors sitting RIGHT there, fully visible, gardening all afternoon. MIL lives on a lot like this with one whole section of fence (chain link) shared with the neighbor and she has screen shrubs planted all along it. It doesn't stop the dogs from barking though it does lessen it - because the dogs can still see movement through it (they aren't all that thick) and can still crawl back there to bark if they want. But those neighbors also aren't out there for hours each day gardening right along the fence line :/ Nothing technically wrong with that, of course, but I think that also makes your planting a privacy screen completely reasonable.

[Pennylane]

Aren't they sitting along their fence? It's your responsibility to keep your dog from barking, whether that means escorting him, training him, putting up privacy fencing, whatever.


Yes, they are but my dog is also on my side of the fence. Why should it only be me that has to compromise? Why don't they think about moving their garden to the other side of the yard that connects to nothing?? H

Don't get the wrong idea about my dog.... He is very well trained BTW, hardly ever barks. I think he thinks these people are just too close to us and he feels a little defensive. He would never bark if someone was just walking past and he was outside. He's super friendly and sweet! I walk past a house everyday that has 4 huge dogs that chase after us (on their side of the fence) for about a 1/4 of a mile. It is annoying but the thought of squirting those dogs or doing anything about it never occurred to me. They are on private property and have every right to run along that fence and bark their heads off.



Ann

[Kindra178]

If I saw my neighbor purposefully spray my dog who was on my property, I would file suit for trespass as well as intentional harm to property. Unless the barking occurred during normal sleeping hours, there is no reason to be upset about intermittent barking during the day. By the way, I asked my dh this question. He is not a dog person at all. The first thing out of his mouth was he would sue them.

[mikala]

If I saw my neighbor purposefully spray my dog who was on my property, I would file suit for trespass as well as intentional harm to property. Unless the barking occurred during normal sleeping hours, there is no reason to be upset about intermittent barking during the day. By the way, I asked my dh this question. He is not a dog person at all. The first thing out of his mouth was he would sue them.

Sue them?? I would never spray a dog that way but surely there has to be a better use of resources than a lawsuit. I can't see that doing anything positive for anyone other than the lawyers racking up fees.

[TwinFoxes]

It's your responsibility to keep your dog from barking, whether that means escorting him, training him, putting up privacy fencing, whatever.

I think it's her responsibility to keep her dog from breaking noise laws/becoming a nuisance. It doesn't sound like OP even comes close. If people never want to hear a dog bark, go somewhere without dogs.

Is is the fence yours or theirs? They may be planning on using it for climbing plants. BTW, gorgeous view OP.

[123LuckyMom]

Yes, they are but my dog is also on my side of the fence. Why should it only be me that has to compromise? Why don't they think about moving their garden to the other side of the yard that connects to nothing?? H

Don't get the wrong idea about my dog.... He is very well trained BTW, hardly ever barks. I think he thinks these people are just too close to us and he feels a little defensive. He would never bark if someone was just walking past and he was outside. He's super friendly and sweet! I walk past a house everyday that has 4 huge dogs that chase after us (on their side of the fence) for about a 1/4 of a mile. It is annoying but the thought of squirting those dogs or doing anything about it never occurred to me. They are on private property and have every right to run along that fence and bark their heads off.



Ann

I absolutely believe you. He is barking because he sees them infringing on his territory. It's a totally normal behavior, and though you can noise train a dog, it takes a lot of work and, like any training, can be undone by something like getting sprayed by a hose! The idea of a lawsuit is utterly ridiculous, and you'd certainly be the ones slammed with frivolous suit fees, but it would be a good idea to find a way to communicate to the neighbors that, though they have every right to put their garden there, the dog will inevitably bark at them, especially if they insist on further invading his territory by doing something like spraying a hose through the fence. He may even bark at their stuff when they're not there. There was once a plastic bag stuck on a branch in the woods behind my house, and our dog barked at it like crazy, and this was when he was noise trained! He was afraid of it, I think.

I still think your best bet is trying to communicate with them that you will do your very best to keep the dog from barking at them but that they may want to reconsider placement of the garden, and they should certainly not spray the dog who is engaging in normal behavior on its own turf. It will make the situation worse. The dog is barking because of their proximity to what he considers his territory (most likely.) The farther away from his territory they are, the less likely the dog is to bark. The closer they are and the more threatened he feels, by a hose, for example, the more likely they are to make him a more persistent barker and pervasive barker such that he may start barking even when nobody is there. If they want a quiet neighborhood, there are things they can do to help that happen. What they're doing now is truly counterproductive and not in their own best interest (which is what you are trying to protect, of course ;).)

ETA: planting screening will give you privacy and also force them to relocate their garden, because your screening will block their garden sun. It's a good idea!

[amatahrain]

I didn't notice this mentioned- Was it a hot/warm day? Maybe they were trying to cool him off or thought he'd enjoy it? I would never dream of spraying my neighbors dog but I know people that do spray their dog down just b/c the dog enjoys it. Maybe they didn't think ahead to the PITA it can be to deal with a wet dog. Either way I agree they shouldn't have done it but maybe their intentions weren't so awful.

[Kindra178]

Sue them?? I would never spray a dog that way but surely there has to be a better use of resources than a lawsuit. I can't see that doing anything positive for anyone other than the lawyers racking up fees.

I am a lawyer, so it would be free for me, but for the filing fees. And yes, I would want them to rack up legal fees. Who sprays a dog? At a minimum, their behavior would cease.

[o_mom]

Op... All of the right/wrong of it aside... I would find a way to talk to them. Go out with your dog a few times when they are out there and give him lots of treats and praise so he associates them with good things and will be less likely to bark. If they are willing have them pet him and treat him (with your treats) and explain as best you can that if they talk to him, and tell him he is good, etc. He will stop barking. Also let them know that if he is barking excessively that it is because you are unaware and they should come to your door to let you know because spraying him is likely to make it worse, not better.

[NJ_Mom2011]

Op... All of the right/wrong of it aside... I would find a way to talk to them. Go out with your dog a few times when they are out there and give him lots of treats and praise so he associates them with good things and will be less likely to bark. If they are willing have them pet him and treat him (with your treats) and explain as best you can that if they talk to him, and tell him he is good, etc. He will stop barking. Also let them know that if he is barking excessively that it is because you are unaware and they should come to your door to let you know because spraying him is likely to make it worse, not better.

Yes, please talk to the couple who owns the house. It sounds like that they speak English better than the parents? The idea of passive aggressive apologizing, and then saying that spraying will just exacerbate the problem will be helpful. Some things need to be done in person, it often greatly deescalates a troubling situation. Some people are just insensitive, without realization that they are being so, and maybe this friendly conversation will wake them up that spraying your dog is not neighborly.

I think that the long-term strategy of planting privacy bushes, and thus causing their garden to always be in shade, is a spot-on great suggestion if you think this conversation is getting nowhere.

[arivecchi]

Aren't they sitting along their fence? It's your responsibility to keep your dog from barking, whether that means escorting him, training him, putting up privacy fencing, whatever.

It's her responsibility to keep her dog from barking at all? Dogs are dogs and intermittent barking is to be expected in a neighborhood with 1 acre lots.

If they had sprayed a kid this would clearly be assault.

If they want to live free of nuisances they should buy a home on 20 acres so that they have no neighbors to deal with.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[sntm]

Legal action more likely to escalate things. I agree dog probably is "defending" his territory and a privacy fence is a good idea. Their spraying the dog was rude (though it's a stretch to call it assault) but in response to what probably felt like a rude initial action - having the dog barking at them for several minutes without any intervention from the owners while they were gardening in their own yard. Which is different than intermittent barking. IMHO "dogs are dogs" is sometimes used as an excuse for having a badly trained dog since it is mostly used in situations where there is a solution that is still dog-respectful #nodisrespecttoarrivechi ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pennylane]

I didn't notice this mentioned- Was it a hot/warm day? Maybe they were trying to cool him off or thought he'd enjoy it? I would never dream of spraying my neighbors dog but I know people that do spray their dog down just b/c the dog enjoys it. Maybe they didn't think ahead to the PITA it can be to deal with a wet dog. Either way I agree they shouldn't have done it but maybe their intentions weren't so awful.

Nope, just normal temp.

Ann

[BunnyBee]

No, not keep the dog from barking at all! But a normal response would be to go up, say hello, introduce them to the dog, let the dog see that it's okay that they're where they are, bring dog treats, etc. OP says they're there for hours a day, and presumably will be for most of the year. Why escalate things? If they're asshats and spray the dog again after you try polite measures, then call the non-emergency number and get the police to tell them to chill out. The very first response shouldn't be to sue your neighbor! All they have to say is that they were afraid and used it as self defense. Boxers can climb fences. (We had a neighbor whose beautiful boxer hung himself by the collar on the top of his 5ft tall fence. We would constantly keep him when we saw him out before that.) Someone afraid of dogs with a 100 lb boxer barking at them? That would be very unnerving.

I wouldn't want to be able to see my neighbors like that from my pool, so I'd have up privacy fencing. Especially if they don't keep their yard nice anyway. I'd rather look at nice landscaping.

[Pennylane]

Legal action more likely to escalate things. I agree dog probably is "defending" his territory and a privacy fence is a good idea. Their spraying the dog was rude (though it's a stretch to call it assault) but in response to what probably felt like a rude initial action - having the dog barking at them for several minutes without any intervention from the owners while they were gardening in their own yard. Which is different than intermittent barking. IMHO "dogs are dogs" is sometimes used as an excuse for having a badly trained dog since it is mostly used in situations where there is a solution that is still dog-respectful #nodisrespecttoarrivechi ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have no intention of taking any type of legal action . I walked by their house this evening to see if I saw anyone outside, but did not see anyone. If I see the younger couple I will try to speak with them. I will not allow them though to continue to do this to my dog.

Ann

[kristenk]

OP, how wet was the dog when he came back to you and where was he wet? Did you have to dry him off before you'd bring him back inside?

I think everyone has a different scenario in mind when picturing the whole thing, so I'm just trying to get the right picture!

[squimp]

Looking at the yard, I would probably plant a couple of trees or a shrubs there. It does seem really strange to have a garden in that spot - I can understand wanting to put it on the edge instead of the middle of the yard, but it's an odd spot.

[ahisma]

Sue them?? I would never spray a dog that way but surely there has to be a better use of resources than a lawsuit. I can't see that doing anything positive for anyone other than the lawyers racking up fees.

I would definitely not sue them. You live next to these people!

ITA that you should talk to them first. It really sounds like it's just a cultural / lack of communication misunderstanding. I'm guessing that they really didn't think that it was offensive to do that.

If they start throwing stones at him or something, sure. Water? I'd work that one out on your own.

FWIW, my grandma is determined that gardens belong along fences. She's mortified that ours isn't. ITA that it's an annoying location, but it may be force of habit. I give older folks a pretty wide berth. We'll all be there someday too.

[mikala]

I am a lawyer, so it would be free for me, but for the filing fees. And yes, I would want them to rack up legal fees. Who sprays a dog? At a minimum, their behavior would cease.

Am I understanding this correctly? You would bypass talking to someone in the household and go straight to a lawsuit over what seems to be a one time offense?

[mikala]

Yes, please talk to the couple who owns the house. It sounds like that they speak English better than the parents? The idea of passive aggressive apologizing, and then saying that spraying will just exacerbate the problem will be helpful. Some things need to be done in person, it often greatly deescalates a troubling situation. Some people are just insensitive, without realization that they are being so, and maybe this friendly conversation will wake them up that spraying your dog is not neighborly.

I think that the long-term strategy of planting privacy bushes, and thus causing their garden to always be in shade, is a spot-on great suggestion if you think this conversation is getting nowhere.

I agree with this approach.

[smiles33]

I've read a few pages, enough to figure out how this became a NINE page thread. Here's my take:

1) No, I wouldn't sue them (and I'm not saying OP was planning to but I see it mentioned). Why escalate it to the most hostile form of confrontation when you haven't even had a conversation with them yet? Filing a lawsuit should be one of last resort, reserved for hostile defensive folks.

2) I own a large exuberant 70+ pound dog. I have immigrant Chinese parents. My mother remains terrified of my dog. Frankly, the fact that your elderly neighbors who spend 2-3 hours gardening per day are afraid of your dog is not likely something to change, no matter how many dog treats you give your dog. It's a cultural thing. My mom sees my kids climbing on my dog, laying on my dog, sleeping with my dog, etc. and she STILL fears he's going to eat them up alive. SERIOUSLY. So rather than approach this as "Those people better learn to live with my dog barking aggressively (as they perceive it) every time he exits my house to relieve himself," why don't you step back and think of it instead as, "How can I help my dog learn to ignore these devoted gardeners who spend a LOT of time outside?" I agree with other dog owners--you can't be expected to walk your dog on a leash each time he needs to step outside to relieve himself. BUT, that doesn't mean you are absolved of all responsibility to do something practical to address this issue. Plant privacy hedges, block off that part of the yard where they garden (they don't garden along the entire 1 acre width of the fence do they?), something to limit your dog's interaction with them.

3) Go over and talk to the homeowners (presumably the elderly folks' kids who actually work all day and don't garden 2-3 hours a day). Explain that you hope their parents are enjoying their gardening and apologize if your large 100 pound boxer scares them. However, you would greatly appreciate it if they would tell their parents NOT to use the garden hose on him--it only makes him bark louder and more aggressively. Explain that he is an indoor dog (as the concept might be foreign to them as my parents had never heard of dogs being indoors, let alone sleeping in my bed with me!), reassure them that you will do your best to ensure he doesn't bother them and conclude by saying that you are working on getting him acclimated to seeing strangers at your fence every time he goes outside.

GOOD LUCK.

[TwinFoxes]

Smile33, I agree completely. :thumbsup: OP says she is checking about privacy shrubs. I'd love an update!

[arivecchi]

Legal action more likely to escalate things. I agree dog probably is "defending" his territory and a privacy fence is a good idea. Their spraying the dog was rude (though it's a stretch to call it assault) but in response to what probably felt like a rude initial action - having the dog barking at them for several minutes without any intervention from the owners while they were gardening in their own yard. Which is different than intermittent barking. IMHO "dogs are dogs" is sometimes used as an excuse for having a badly trained dog since it is mostly used in situations where there is a solution that is still dog-respectful #nodisrespecttoarrivechi ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My dog is well trained and she still barks at times. Fortunately I guess we live on 5 acres and don't have crazy neighbors nearby.

I don't get the sense the OP's dog is not trained and she went outside to get her dog when the barking did not cease. Not sure what more you can do. I'm surprised people are so intolerant of a dog barking in his backyard and lenient with a neighbor just spraying another person's dog. IMO, that action is more disrespectful than a barking dog. The neighbor should have spoken to the op before resorting to spraying.

Like Twinfoxes said, now I understand why people get killed for texting in a movie theater. The overreaction to small nuisances in life is apparently acceptable.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[wellyes]

I absolutely believe you. He is barking because he sees them infringing on his territory. It's a totally normal behavior, and though you can noise train a dog, it takes a lot of work and, like any training, can be undone by something like getting sprayed by a hose! The idea of a lawsuit is utterly ridiculous, and you'd certainly be the ones slammed with frivolous suit fees, but it would be a good idea to find a way to communicate to the neighbors that, though they have every right to put their garden there, the dog will inevitably bark at them, especially if they insist on further invading his territory by doing something like spraying a hose through the fence. He may even bark at their stuff when they're not there. There was once a plastic bag stuck on a branch in the woods behind my house, and our dog barked at it like crazy, and this was when he was noise trained! He was afraid of it, I think.

I still think your best bet is trying to communicate with them that you will do your very best to keep the dog from barking at them but that they may want to reconsider placement of the garden, and they should certainly not spray the dog who is engaging in normal behavior on its own turf. It will make the situation worse. The dog is barking because of their proximity to what he considers his territory (most likely.) The farther away from his territory they are, the less likely the dog is to bark. The closer they are and the more threatened he feels, by a hose, for example, the more likely they are to make him a more persistent barker and pervasive barker such that he may start barking even when nobody is there. If they want a quiet neighborhood, there are things they can do to help that happen. What they're doing now is truly counterproductive and not in their own best interest (which is what you are trying to protect, of course ;).)

ETA: planting screening will give you privacy and also force them to relocate their garden, because your screening will block their garden sun. It's a good idea!


I would think going outside for 3 minutes while the dog pees is a more commonsense solution than asking neighbors -- who spend many hours every day gardening -- to move their garden. Or, train him to see elsewhere.

I can just picture the BBB post: "My neighbor asked me to move my garden so *I* don't make *her* dog bark!"

[twowhat?]

OK, I missed that the house is owned by a younger couple and that it's likely their older parents who are out there gardening who don't speak English. In that case I agree with Smiles33 to try to talk to them (the younger couple) and just say you are working on getting the dog used to their presence and to expect that the dog will bark at first since they are right up against the fenceline, and that spraying water will only make the barking worse. If they can convey to their parents to completely ignore the dog, that would help you out. Your dog will initially bark but will calm down once he gets used to their constant presence/lack of engagement. There doesn't have to be any dog treats involved and ALL they have to do is ignore the dog - they get the easy part. They simply have to ignore. And not spray water, LOL. There has to be compromise on both sides - you will work with the dog to get him used to their presence (supervising potty trips at first) so they need to do their part too to make this work.

Does your dog like to play ball or anything? If so it would be really helpful to (at first) go out with your dog, give the command to go potty and then play a couple min of ball whenever they are out there gardening (and only when they are out there). Your dog will quickly associate their presence with good things. Hopefully your dog picks this up pretty quickly and then you can stop supervising potty trips - your dog will go potty and then likely look to you for some positive attention, even if that means coming right back into the house. If all goes well their presence will eventually stop arousing your dog, and your dog can enjoy the whole of your yard (with a yard that big, it wouldn't be right for the dog to not be able to use it for exercise time). If that doesn't work, then I'd maybe go back to the neighbors (young couple) and explain that it's not working and that you plan to plant some privacy hedges for their benefit.

Though if I were you I think I'd want the privacy hedges anyway...with your pool being right in the line of view! Good luck:)

[TwinFoxes]

I can just picture the BBB post: "My neighbor asked me to move my garden so *I* don't make *her* dog bark!"

More like "I sprayed my neighbor's dog because it barked at me, and now she suggested gardening right next to the fence might not be the best idea". It's not like the OP was randomly going to suggest they move their garden because she's tired of her own dog barking. (I personally wouldn't suggest moving the garden, but clearly I'm in the minority who thinks people can do what they want legally in their own yards).

[wellyes]

More like "I sprayed my neighbor's dog because it barked at me, and now she suggested gardening right next to the fence might not be the best idea". It's not like the OP was randomly going to suggest they move their garden because she's tired of her own dog barking. (I personally wouldn't suggest moving the garden, but clearly I'm in the minority who thinks people can do what they want legally in their own yards).

It sounds like they sprayed the dog once. With water. And stopped when asked. Right ? Not good, but not worth going nuclear over. Especially given the language and cultural differences.

[smiles33]

My dog is well trained and she still barks at times. Fortunately I guess we live on 5 acres and don't have crazy neighbors nearby.

I don't get the sense the OP's dog is not trained and she went outside to get her dog when the barking did not cease. Not sure what more you can do. I'm surprised people are so intolerant of a dog barking in his backyard and lenient with a neighbor just spraying another person's dog. IMO, that action is more disrespectful than a barking dog. The neighbor should have spoken to the op before resorting to spraying.

Like Twinfoxes said, now I understand why people get killed for texting in a movie theater. The overreaction to small nuisances in life is apparently acceptable.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I felt the need to comment on this. I LOVE my dogs, and when my first one passed away, I bawled for an hour in the emergency vet's office. But I understand that my parents, immigrant Chinese folks, will always view my dogs as potential threats. This is why I posted in this thread. I can identify with the elderly gardeners' fears because I can put my parents there in their shoes. Now my parents have lived in the US for 40+ years. They both worked in professional settings and can speak English. They know how devoted some crazy Americans (i.e., me!) are toward our dogs so they would never spray a dog with a garden hose UNLESS they felt threatened. It would not be because they were annoyed at 3 minutes of barking

There's a clear distinction to me between cranky, trigger-sensitive Americans and older, presumably "set-in-their-ways" immigrants who may be scared of dogs. They do not speak English, per OP. They may have zero experience with dogs, let alone a barking 100 pound boxer trying to defend its territory (who come on, you must admit can be scary even to dog-lovers, let alone folks completely unaccustomed to dogs as pets). How do you expect scared older people to react when a large dog starts to bark at them through an open fence, one in which *they* may think he can get past?

This has NOTHING to do with how well-trained your dog is and how infrequently he barks at other nuisances. My dog doesn't bark at all unless it's a stranger at the door OR he seems something strange. But when he barks, my 70 pound labrador/Rhodesian Ridgeback mix DOES look scary. His hackles rise, he's LOUD, and his tail is not wagging. I'd be a little scared if I didn't know him and saw him barking at ME in front of an open fence like yours, OP. But I, being a reasonable person, would just go back into my house as I don't like gardening for 10 minutes, let alone 2-3 hours.

So the question here is does anyone think your neighbors are NOT entitled to use their yard because your dog has the right to bark at them and force them back inside? No, obviously not. But have a little sympathy for them, too. That's all I'm saying. Yes, your dog has the right to pee when he wants without you hovering near him to stop him from barking at them. But these elderly folks, people who may have worked really hard all their lives, deserve the freedom to garden on their own property WHERE they want. I think the comments from some PP that they should move their garden elsewhere are, frankly, selfish and very NIMBY along the lines of "My dog and his ability to pee freely is more important than 'those people' and their excessive gardening time" which I find very offensive.

[speo]

OP, I am wondering if your dog going over and barking was a one-off or had been happening frequently? I don't think what they did was right. However, it seems likely that the dog had barked at them more than once if they are out there for so long. Maybe they had been barked at many times (not for long each time) and they were just really frustrated. I think that is a slightly different scenario that being barked at once and then spraying.

I do agree with PP that it would be good to talk to anyone at the house who might speak English.

[arivecchi]

Smiles33, you must have missed my first post. I said I would definitely try to communicate with the neighbors to address the issue, but I don't think there is any excuse for spraying a dog who is clearly contained (with a tall and solid fence I might add). Nothing IMO can excuse that behavior.

[smiles33]

Smiles33, you must have missed my first post. I said I would definitely try to communicate with the neighbors to address the issue, but I don't think there is any excuse for spraying a dog who is clearly contained (with a tall and solid fence I might add). Nothing IMO can excuse that behavior.

You're right. I only saw your 2 most recent posts that were appalled at the dog being sprayed. I get that, I really do. Yet I also remember the palpable fear I felt as a child being chased by a dog and my parents' even GREATER fear of dogs. So we will have to disagree that there is NEVER a reason to spray a dog with water from a garden hose (NOT a pressure washer or high intensity spray gun) while behind a metal fence.

In our case, our fear of dogs could have led to spraying a neighbor's dog behind a metal fence. I'm not saying it was a RATIONAL reasonable fear that the dog could break past a metal fence. I'm saying I DO think there is a justifiable reason why someone would "stand their ground" and not abandon their own garden/yard that they've invested countless hours in despite a real fear of a dog they perceive to be aggressive and intimidating.

[TwinFoxes]

In our case, our fear of dogs could have led to spraying a neighbor's dog behind a metal fence. I'm not saying it was a RATIONAL reasonable fear that the dog could break past a metal fence. I'm saying I DO think there is a justifiable reason why someone would "stand their ground" and not abandon their own garden/yard that they've invested countless hours in despite a real fear of a dog they perceive to be aggressive and intimidating.

I can empathize, BUT, I have a hard time believing that they never saw the dog before planning their garden right along the fence. I think the cultural difference argument only goes so far. In this day and age, I think it's pretty well known even in foreign countries that Americans love their dogs. It's 2014, not 1980, the internet and movies exist, it's not the iron curtain of old.

I'm not sure how we've decided they're "elderly" as opposed to just late 50s. But again, even if they're elderly with no concept of American culture, they had to have seen the dog at some point before putting their garden in. (Or their kids could have said, you know there a huge dog, and I know about your terror, maybe not right along the fence). So to say they're terrified of the dog doesn't make sense to me. I'm terrified of the dog, so I'll garden as close to him as possible? Again, I think they can garden where they want, but I'm not buying they were spraying out of terror. I think they don't like barking.

Also, so, the people on his board who are saying they'd spray a dog too are neither elderly nor unfamiliar with American culture. They could easily speak to the owner instead of basically losing it after a few minutes.

[chlobo]

If I saw my neighbor purposefully spray my dog who was on my property, I would file suit for trespass as well as intentional harm to property. Unless the barking occurred during normal sleeping hours, there is no reason to be upset about intermittent barking during the day. By the way, I asked my dh this question. He is not a dog person at all. The first thing out of his mouth was he would sue them.

I take exception that I shouldn't be upset about intermittent barking. who are you to decide what amount of barking is annoying. I have about 10 dogs in my neighborhood. If each one just barked for a period of time once a day I"d be listening to dogs barking all day long. I used to have a neighbor whose dog barked "intermittently" for 6 hours a day.

That said, I would not sue them over it but I was pretty annoyed.

[Kindra178]

I take exception that I shouldn't be upset about intermittent barking. who are you to decide what amount of barking is annoying. I have about 10 dogs in my neighborhood. If each one just barked for a period of time once a day I"d be listening to dogs barking all day long. I used to have a neighbor whose dog barked "intermittently" for 6 hours a day.

That said, I would not sue them over it but I was pretty annoyed.

Intermittent barking is something everyone is forced to listen to when they live in a neighborhood of houses. As others have noted above, live on a bigger parcel of land if don't want to hear others' noise.

[wellyes]

Intermittent barking is something everyone is forced to listen to when they live in a neighborhood of houses. As others have noted above, live on a bigger parcel of land if don't want to hear others' noise.

Another option, they could take your earlier suggestion to file a lawsuit so that the neighbors would rack up legal fees until the behavior ceased.

[TwinFoxes]

I take exception that I shouldn't be upset about intermittent barking. who are you to decide what amount of barking is annoying.


She may not be the one to decide, but there are laws on the books. It's not just her opinion. As a dog owner, I know what the law is here. It says dogs may not bark "frequently" and frequently is highlighted. Six hours a day is pretty darned frequent! This concept that dogs shouldn't bark is just not the norm in law, I'd say.

[niccig]

This thread is becoming like the yoga pants controversy ;)

They sprayed your dog for barking, you don't like it, which is fair. I'd talk to someone that lives in the house telling them you'll do what you can about the barking (common courtesy to stop it when you can which you already do) and tell them to not spray your dog as it will make him bark more, so it's not helping. Then I'd look at putting some bushes along the fence because while they can put their garden where ever they want on their land, you don't have to look at it when you're in your pool.

We had a similar situation with our elderly neighbors complaining about our dog barking. MIL's advice was they're not moving anytime soon (lived there 30 years and will stay there until they die), having pissed off neighbors can cause many more problems so make peace with them about it. DH didn't want to because they wrote us a nasty note. I did talk with the neighbors and came to an understanding. I did what I could about the barking, would let them know if dog had to be outside longer than normal (eg. had people working in house and dog couldn't be inside), and they became more understanding. Over the years, they've even put the dog back in the yard if she escaped and I wasn't home - the back door didn't latch properly and she got out of the house. They saw her, chased her down and put her in the yard for me. They're the neighbors I wrote about, who DS is helping with their trash cans.

I don't see how it helps to escalate something that may be taken care of with a conversation.

[Pennylane]

Update :

So it happened again this morning. I let him out at 7:15 to go to the bathroom, they were already outside. He ran right to the fence and barked. The woman immediately squirted him with the hose. He just ran around like it was a game, barking his head off. I came outside and called for him, had to promise him a treat to get him in :) I knew it was too early to go over so waited until after lunchtime and walked over and knocked on the door. The son answered. He speaks very broken English. I explained who I was and what had happened. I told him I understood that my dog was very large and might seen threatening to his in-laws (once I found out who they were) , but I did not appreciate them squirting him with a hose especially since he was in my fenced in yard. I also explained that the only time that my dog was out was to go the restroom, not like he was outside for long periods of time barking. He apologized and said he would speak to them but he could not promise that it wouldn't happen again. I then told him that if it continued I would have to contact someone about it. That I was trying to be a good neighbor but when they are out there for 6 hours a day, he couldn't expect me not to let my dog out.

Didn't seem to bother him at all and he was nice about it, but didn't really seem to care. So I guess I'll just wait and see what happens. I am on the HOA and I could report the garden (it is really a mess back there) I don't want to though because they seem to get a lot of enjoyment out of it and I hate to be that kind of person.

Ann

[wellyes]

Good update. Even if he wasn't as apologetic as he could have been, hopefully he will get the message across. Fingers crossed!
I am kind of laughing that in the midst of all drama, this the dog is all "woo hoo! I'm getting sprayed!"

[Kindra178]

Pennylane, the update is not promising. You need to follow up with a note in their mailbox (keep a copy) stating that you witnessed residents of the home spraying your dog with a hose, that you discussed this behavior with owner of the home and that you request this behavior ceases immediately.

[Pennylane]

Good update. Even if he wasn't as apologetic as he could have been, hopefully he will get the message across. Fingers crossed!
I am kind of laughing that in the midst of all drama, this the dog is all "woo hoo! I'm getting sprayed!"

Yes, now it is a game to him. Let him out this afternoon and what does he do? Run right to the fence looking for them! Ugh!

Ann

[Pennylane]

Pennylane, the update is not promising. You need to follow up with a note in their mailbox (keep a copy) stating that you witnessed residents of the home spraying your dog with a hose, that you discussed this behavior with owner of the home and that you request this behavior ceases immediately.

Yes, I will. That is a good idea.

Ann

[MMMommy]

A barking dog is annoying to me. However, I would not spray a neighbor's barking dog with a hose, unless the dog posed some immediate threat of harm or danger to me or my family. If there was a hole in the fence, and the dog escaped and approached aggressively while barking, then I can see why they might spray him with a hose. I assume this was not the case. Was your dog perhaps nosing through the fence rungs while barking (such that his face was poking through on the neighbor's side of the fence), thus scaring them?

I hope the situation resolves itself after your conversation with the SIL. Hopefully, he will talk to his in-laws and make it clear to them that they are not to do that. I don't think they should be spraying your dog, but I can see how the barking (if frequent enough and long enough) can be a nuisance and tiresome.

[abh5e8]

so can you report them to the HOA? is there a rule that would pertain to a barkign dog and/or a neighbor spraying the dog?

same with the garden. does the HOA allow gardens? would the HOA require them to remove the garden if you report it?

maybe the neighbors think the dog enjoys it and that they are playing with the dog? especially if the dog seems to like it? i think letting them know that you do not want them to spray the dog is a good idea, mabve they have no clue it bothers you?

but i'm also wondering what the laws or rules are that can be enforced against the neighbors?

[sariana]

Wow, lots of opinions on this thread!

OP, you have more courage than I to approach the family. It's great that you did that.

FWIW, I don't like dogs--at all--and would not appreciate having one bark at me through a fence. However, I think barking is a part of a dog's nature, and asking dogs to stop barking is unfair to them. They are dogs.

Hopefully the son-in-law will be able to mediate some sort of compromise.

[Momit]

Glad you were able to talk to them about it. I do hope it's resolved the way you hope it will be. I agree with the advice to document everything and be prepared for them to file a claim with the HoA as well to get back at you.

We had a terrible issue with our neighbor's dog barking, to the point that it negatively affected the resale value of our house, and it never occurred to me to shoot water at the dog. I would be fuming if someone did that to our dog.

[TwinFoxes]

Yes, now it is a game to him. Let him out this afternoon and what does he do? Run right to the fence looking for them! Ugh!

Ann

Of course they started a game with the most playful breed.

OP, our boxer would sometimes bark at the little girls next door to us in LA, and we'd go get him. I knew he just wanted to play, but I was afraid he would scare them. One day he was outside and I could hear the girls, but he wasn't barking. I go out there, and they are petting him through the fence, and feeding him their ice cream cones. :) They remained buddies.

[jacksmomtobe]

Maybe the SiL was not sure the in laws would listen to him so maybe he was listening to what you were saying but unsure they would listen to him ykwim. Maybe if you mentioned in the note that the dog now thinks they are playing with him and they need to stop or the dog will continue his behavior & keep barking at them.

[twowhat?]

Eeeeek, I agree - not the best update. And I'm totally going to generalize (I'm Asian, am I allowed? LOL) and say that even if he talks to his (assumed) parents, they aren't going to change their behavior unless 1) he also tells them you will follow up with someone if it continues and 2) they take the "threat" seriously. I really hope he understood well enough to convey the message. Of course they totally aren't going to get that a lot of dogs bark in excitement over meeting people, it's not necessarily aggression at all. Our dog barks, howls, and whines up a storm when we have friends or family over that she knows, she is SO excited to see them, never mind if it has only been a few days since she last saw one of them. It melts my heart. We can tell the difference in bark as dog owners but to everyone else barking=aggression.

Definitely please update! What a PITA neighbor situation! The silver lining is that your dog isn't harmed and thinks it's a blast...no pun intended...

[Pennylane]

so can you report them to the HOA? is there a rule that would pertain to a barkign dog and/or a neighbor spraying the dog?

same with the garden. does the HOA allow gardens? would the HOA require them to remove the garden if you report it?

maybe the neighbors think the dog enjoys it and that they are playing with the dog? especially if the dog seems to like it? i think letting them know that you do not want them to spray the dog is a good idea, mabve they have no clue it bothers you?

but i'm also wondering what the laws or rules are that can be enforced against the neighbors?

I am pretty sure all the stuff they have up around the garden in in violation, we have a very strict HOA. There are milk cartons, plastic hung up, lots of random junk all around the area. That would be a last resort for me though!

Ann

[daisysmom]

Good luck op. If I were you, Ipis you see it happen again, I would file a complaint with the police. I relayed this list to my friends in real life, a bunch of attorneys like me, and they were pretty confident that spraying a dog who was appropriately fenced would be animal cruelty (even tho the dog seems playful) as well as trespassing on your property. Hang up a no trespass sign so it is marked and be ready. Whether dog barking annoys some people or not is nit the issue. The dog was fenced in your property snd your neighbors did something to it.

[twowhat?]

I am pretty sure all the stuff they have up around the garden in in violation, we have a very strict HOA. There are milk cartons, plastic hung up, lots of random junk all around the area. That would be a last resort for me though!

Ann

Oh, dear...sounds like my parents' garden. Sigh. They take "recycle" to a whole new level...

[♥ms.pacman♥]

read the update. it's good that he'll talk to his parents/ILs..hopefully that will get through.

from the pic you posted, your neighborhood looks very, very similar to mine.. though most people here have slatted fences; the only people who have fences like yours are on the very edge or corners of a block, or where there is a walkway going in between houses. It is very, very, very common for when i am out walking with the kids to see dogs up running up against those fences barking at people who walk by or whatever. It never occurred to me that that is such a nuisance that merits some sort of action (spraying a dog with water), and my DD is super scared of dogs.

our neighborhood has a super strict HOA. if anybody with a fence like that had milk cartons and that kind of thing against the fence like that they'd get a notice in a hot second. i can see the point, it doesn't look very nice if everyone can see that stuff.

[123LuckyMom]

Well, the "good" news is that your dog loves the hose and thinks he has new playmates. Now it's not a territory issue (if it ever was), it's a please-spray-me-I-want-to-play issue!

I agree you should send a letter. If nothing happens, my next step would be to have a lawyer friend, write a follow-up letter on letter head stationery. A letter from a lawyer can scare some people into action. If that doesn't work, I would try one more time to let them know your only recourse will be to report the garden to the HOA. Then I'd do that. If it's not too expensive, though, I'd plant screening. It will up your property value, give you privacy, hide the ugly garden (and probably cause it to need to be relocated), and protect the dog from getting wet. My dog would enjoy that, too, but mine's really hairy, and I do NOT appreciate him coming into the house soaking wet!!!

[daisysmom]

Our hoa is similarly very strict about objects like that. We moved from a very urban house, and the strict hoa rules were explained well and allowed to be read by us (our state's laws allow one to cancel a contract for purchasing real estate within a period of days after receiving the hoa rules). And while a backyard is private property, hoa rules are widely and liberally enforced.

If your hoa says something about barking dogs or noise that is different than your city/county ordinance, then that could be a problem for op. Ours just say pets must be leashed or in a fancied (including electronic fence) area.

[bisous]

Pennylane, you've had some good advice. I hope you can get to an amicable solution with your neighbors! I don't think all hope is lost.

Honest question, why is spraying the dog so bad? Is it because dogs don't like to get wet? Is it traumatizing? Does it hurt? I suppose I ask because I definitely would think it was TERRIBLE if someone was spraying a child with a hose. On the other hand, I know lots of people that spray cats with water when they are places that they shouldn't be (for example on counters in the kitchen). The cats don't seem upset. I'm not a dog person and while I don't think I would spray one with a hose in my yard (would not occur to me to do that), I don't really get the "abuse" angle that others are talking about. OP, since your dog likes to be sprayed is it just because you don't like the dog to then come in the house all wet?

[HannaAddict]

Your dog is out barking at 7:15 am? I'd think twice before starting a HOA feud with that fact. He isn't injured, he likes it, then I'd let it go and just bring him in as soon as he's done. I have dogs, did dog obedience shows as a kid, love pets, but would be rather fed up with a barking dog in the early morning. I would be pretty fed up with a barking dog od any size who stayed and barled at me if I was using my yard. They are entitled to use their yard, even near the fence and shouldn't have to put up with 100 lb dog barking at them. That is not quiet enjoyment. :) They have zero obligation to use a different part of their yard, rather you need to figure out how to train the dog if he wants more time in the yard. They are gardening quietly, in their yard, and you would actually report their garden? Don't do it, unless you want scrutiny of your every move and noise of your dog . . . Karma.

[JBaxter]

The milk cartons are probably hot caps as are the other containers. It it is a fantastic way to re-purpose items to start and protect plants. Instead of tossing them in the trash they are used to protect the plants and can be reused for years. Plant the row of privacy trees or bushes. Personally I wouldn't people watching me and my kid sin my pool let alone my dog freaking out everytime a neighbor was by the fence.
I am pretty sure all the stuff they have up around the garden in in violation, we have a very strict HOA. There are milk cartons, plastic hung up, lots of random junk all around the area. That would be a last resort for me though!

Ann

[AshleyAnn]

Your dog is out barking at 7:15 am? I'd think twice before starting a HOA feud with that fact. He isn't injured, he likes it, then I'd let it go and just bring him in as soon as he's done. I have dogs, did dog obedience shows as a kid, love pets, but would be rather fed up with a barking dog in the early morning. I would be pretty fed up with a barking dog od any size who stayed and barled at me if I was using my yard. They are entitled to use their yard, even near the fence and shouldn't have to put up with 100 lb dog barking at them. That is not quiet enjoyment. :) They have zero obligation to use a different part of their yard, rather you need to figure out how to train the dog if he wants more time in the yard. They are gardening quietly, in their yard, and you would actually report their garden? Don't do it, unless you want scrutiny of your every move and noise of your dog . . . Karma.

:yeahthat:

I'm surprised over the outrage over a dog being sprayed with water and the suggestion its the neighbors who should change their behavior to accommodate the dogs annoying behavior. Your dog should NOT be permitted to bark for 3 minutes without being corrected. You choose to get an animal, you have to be a responsible owner and that includes not allowing it to annoy your neighbors. Figure out a solution.

My neighbors have 2 large dogs, one a boxer, in a privacy fence. They bark EVERYTIME I step outside my house "intermittently" and the owners opinion is its not excessive because well dogs bark and I'm spooking them. They sound aggressive and the boxer really acts like he'd eat me (and DD) if he could get out. I often fear if he could get out it'd be a serious situation. The owners swear it cannot happen but I don't feel safe and the barking is loud and so annoying. I've tried everything to make them stop barking and nothing help. Not good for neighbor relationships !

[SnuggleBuggles]

The milk cartons are probably hot caps as are the other containers. It it is a fantastic way to re-purpose items to start and protect plants. Instead of tossing them in the trash they are used to protect the plants and can be reused for years. Plant the row of privacy trees or bushes..

If HOAs report or fine people for reusing items, add another mark to why I'm glad we have no HOAs here.

[Pennylane]

:yeahthat:

I'm surprised over the outrage over a dog being sprayed with water and the suggestion its the neighbors who should change their behavior to accommodate the dogs annoying behavior. Your dog should NOT be permitted to bark for 3 minutes without being corrected. You choose to get an animal, you have to be a responsible owner and that includes not allowing it to annoy your neighbors. Figure out a solution.

My neighbors have 2 large dogs, one a boxer, in a privacy fence. They bark EVERYTIME I step outside my house "intermittently" and the owners opinion is its not excessive because well dogs bark and I'm spooking them. They sound aggressive and the boxer really acts like he'd eat me (and DD) if he could get out. I often fear if he could get out it'd be a serious situation. The owners swear it cannot happen but I don't feel safe and the barking is loud and so annoying. I've tried everything to make them stop barking and nothing help. Not good for neighbor relationships !

I think you guys aren't understanding what I am saying or maybe you do ....My dog goes outside 3 times a day....early morning , afternoon, and before bed. He never barks, honestly you would never know we had a dog. He will occasionally bark if someone rings my doorbell , which is maybe once a week if UPS delivers. These people are sitting right up against my fence for hours at a time. Fine, I've got no problem with that or the unsightly mess they are making.

So you are saying is they should be allowed to do what they want on their property and I should have to put my dog on a leash to walk him to the other side of the yard to go to the bathroom so it doesn't bother them with his barking? I purchased a home with a large fenced in yard just so I didn't have to do that and I won't. He is a dog and occasionally barks. I am a good dog owner and he is a good dog that is sweet as can be. He was well trained as a puppy.

Listen I would be annoyed too if I couldn't go in my backyard without listening to a dog bark all the time. But this is twice a day, for a few minutes . He is not deserving of being squirted with water ,although he probably doesn't care. I don't think it is hurting him, it just seems wrong to me as it is my property. Would you also think it is ok if they gave him poison meat to stop him or starting squirting my dc because they are on the trampoline every afternoon screaming and playing??

As far as neighbor relations, we've lived here for 2 years and these people have never so much as raised a hand to wave at me. Yesterday was the first time i have spoken to them so I'm not concerned with maintaining a relationship with them, as we've never had one and probably never will.

The HOA would probably make them remove all the junk from their backyard . Couldn't really do anything about my dog because he is not doing anything wrong.

Ann

[Pennylane]

If HOAs report or fine people for reusing items, add another mark to why I'm glad we have no HOAs here.

They don't but it is a big old mess back there. I love my HOA and don't mind following the rules if it keeps my neighborhood looking nice.

Ann

[TwinFoxes]

I think you guys aren't understanding what I am saying or maybe you do ....My dog goes outside 3 times a day....early morning , afternoon, and before bed. He never barks, honestly you would never know we had a dog. He will occasionally bark if someone rings my doorbell , which is maybe once a week if UPS delivers. These people are sitting right up against my fence for hours at a time. Fine, I've got no problem with that or the unsightly mess they are making.

So you are saying is they should be allowed to do what they want on their property and I should have to put my dog on a leash to walk him to the other side of the yard to go to the bathroom so it doesn't bother them with his barking? I purchased a home with a large fenced in yard just so I didn't have to do that and I won't. He is a dog and occasionally barks. I am a good dog owner and he is a good dog that is sweet as can be. He was well trained as a puppy.

Listen I would be annoyed too if I couldn't go in my backyard without listening to a dog bark all the time. But this is twice a day, for a few minutes . He is not deserving of being squirted with water ,although he probably doesn't care. I don't think it is hurting him, it just seems wrong to me as it is my property. Would you also think it is ok if they gave him poison meat to stop him or starting squirting my dc because they are on the trampoline every afternoon screaming and playing??



I think you're being reasonable. I also think people are looking at their own situations with I'm assuming much smaller lots and equating it to yours. Even if your dog were barking at 7:15am, it'd be doubtful anyone could hear him across your huge lot unless they are outside next to the fence. I moved to a neighborhood with lots of dogs, I have a fenced yard, and no my dog is not completely silent. He's not doing anything wrong by running around having fun and barking at my daughters while they play chase. My dogs are inside dogs, they don't hang out outside for hours at a time (unless they're sleeping). I'm sure there are communities with tougher dog laws for people who don't want to ever hear a dog bark. But I don't live in one, and it sounds like OP doesn't either.

[specialp]

What provision in the CCRs would allow the HOA to demand they clean it up? Most that I have seen only address issue with the backyard only if they are visible from the street.

[egoldber]

Even if your dog were barking at 7:15am, it'd be doubtful anyone could hear him across your huge lot unless they are outside next to the fence.

I live on an acre lot in a neighborhood of acre lots and lots of old trees. I can clearly hear dogs barking, even inside my house.

I think complaining to the HOA is a potential can of worms for the OP. Their garden may be against the HOA, but even assuming her dog is acting completely in the bounds of the HOA by-laws, if the other homeowner complains, it could still get nasty.

[SnuggleBuggles]

They don't but it is a big old mess back there. I love my HOA and don't mind following the rules if it keeps my neighborhood looking nice.

Ann

Granted the pic is small but it doesn't look like a mess. I've seen messes.

[cvanbrunt]

I just don't understand this insistence that people have some sort of right to never hear something they find annoying. You know what sound I hate? The d@mn neighbor kid with his relentless thump thump thump thump thump thumpthumpthumpthumpthump of the basketball. And his toddler brother screeching. But guess what? There are sounds in this world and I don't like all of them.

[kdeunc]

I just don't understand this insistence that people have some sort of right to never hear something they find annoying. You know what sound I hate? The d@mn neighbor kid with his relentless thump thump thump thump thump thumpthumpthumpthumpthump of the basketball. And his toddler brother screeching. But guess what? There are sounds in this world and I don't like all of them.

:yeahthat: I agree. If you live in a town, a neighborhood, anywhere but on 40 acres, don't you have to "tune out" noises?

[westwoodmom04]

I think you're being reasonable. I also think people are looking at their own situations with I'm assuming much smaller lots and equating it to yours. Even if your dog were barking at 7:15am, it'd be doubtful anyone could hear him across your huge lot unless they are outside next to the fence. I moved to a neighborhood with lots of dogs, I have a fenced yard, and no my dog is not completely silent. He's not doing anything wrong by running around having fun and barking at my daughters while they play chase. My dogs are inside dogs, they don't hang out outside for hours at a time (unless they're sleeping). I'm sure there are communities with tougher dog laws for people who don't want to ever hear a dog bark. But I don't live in one, and it sounds like OP doesn't either.

Perfectly said. We live in a neighborhood with one to two acre lots and most are fenced. Until recently, we did not have a dog (we do now) but ninety percent of our neighbors do. There is almost always a dog barking somewhere in the neighborhood. I consider it white noise. Unless a dog is barking incessantly (and that'S more than three minutes) or is running loose through the neighborhood, there isIMO no room for complaints. Most people move to neighborhoods like this precisely because they are pet friendly.

[TwinFoxes]

I live on an acre lot in a neighborhood of acre lots and lots of old trees. I can clearly hear dogs barking, even inside my house.
.

OP's photo looked like more than an acre to me.


If you live in a town, a neighborhood, anywhere but on 40 acres, don't you have to "tune out" noises?

:yeahthat: I can hear the HS marching band on clear Friday nights in fall. I don't complain. And the kid who practices his drums during the summer...he lives nowhere near me, but I still hear it, and I don't complain to his parents that he should close the garage door on hot summer days. I like living in a neighborhood with families, big yards with dogs and swing sets, and other suburban noises.

[wellyes]

Perfectly said. We live in a neighborhood with one to two acre lots and most are fenced. Until recently, we did not have a dog (we do now) but ninety percent of our neighbors do. There is almost always a dog barking somewhere in the neighborhood. I consider it white noise. Unless a dog is barking incessantly (and that'S more than three minutes) or is running loose through the neighborhood, there isIMO no room for complaints. Most people move to neighborhoods like this precisely because they are pet friendly.

I think there is a pretty big difference between hearing a dog bark somewhere in the distance and having a dog bark AT you through a not-very-big fence.

OP, since the lot is rather large, can't you have the dog pee somewhere else? Not that you should have to-but- easy solutions are always better than drawn-out animosity between next door neighbors.

[AshleyAnn]

I think there is a pretty big difference between hearing a dog bark somewhere in the distance and having a dog bark AT you through a not-very-big fence.

OP, since the lot is rather large, can't you have the dog pee somewhere else? Not that you should have to-but- easy solutions are always better than drawn-out animosity between next door neighbors.

That is exactly what I was going to say - yes the lot is large but your dog is RIGHT there barking at them. I can and do tolerate a dog barking distance away but barking AT me while I'm on my property? NO.

[AshleyAnn]

I think you guys aren't understanding what I am saying or maybe you do ....My dog goes outside 3 times a day....early morning , afternoon, and before bed. He never barks, honestly you would never know we had a dog. He will occasionally bark if someone rings my doorbell , which is maybe once a week if UPS delivers. These people are sitting right up against my fence for hours at a time. Fine, I've got no problem with that or the unsightly mess they are making.

So you are saying is they should be allowed to do what they want on their property and I should have to put my dog on a leash to walk him to the other side of the yard to go to the bathroom so it doesn't bother them with his barking? I purchased a home with a large fenced in yard just so I didn't have to do that and I won't. He is a dog and occasionally barks. I am a good dog owner and he is a good dog that is sweet as can be. He was well trained as a puppy.

Listen I would be annoyed too if I couldn't go in my backyard without listening to a dog bark all the time. But this is twice a day, for a few minutes . He is not deserving of being squirted with water ,although he probably doesn't care. I don't think it is hurting him, it just seems wrong to me as it is my property. Would you also think it is ok if they gave him poison meat to stop him or starting squirting my dc because they are on the trampoline every afternoon screaming and playing??

As far as neighbor relations, we've lived here for 2 years and these people have never so much as raised a hand to wave at me. Yesterday was the first time i have spoken to them so I'm not concerned with maintaining a relationship with them, as we've never had one and probably never will.

The HOA would probably make them remove all the junk from their backyard . Couldn't really do anything about my dog because he is not doing anything wrong.

Ann

Well you've been given several good solutions to the problem here - so I don't think walking him is the only option but YES you do have the responsibility as an animal owner to keep him under control and that includes barking. Obviously it bothers your neighbors and to stop it they did something that bothered you. If you don't want them to spray your dog don't put hour dog in the position to be sprayed. Simple concept.

For the record with my neighbors bark happy dogs I went straight to the city and made a nuscience complaint about it. Police came put agreed with me and fined them $50 a dog. They can be fined anytime I call and the city can remove the dogs for excess complaints. Would you prefer that route? That's the equivalent to your HOA complaint.

Your dog does not have the right to bark at the neighbors while they are quietly gardening

[westwoodmom04]

I think there is a pretty big difference between hearing a dog bark somewhere in the distance and having a dog bark AT you through a not-very-big fence.

OP, since the lot is rather large, can't you have the dog pee somewhere else? Not that you should have to-but- easy solutions are always better than drawn-out animosity between next door neighbors.

I didn't say anything about off in the distance, neighbors on all three sides (side, side, and back) have dogs. Plus all houses surrounding them. If its "off on the distance," its only due to all lots being at least an acre, as is the case for OP. I think OP has every right to let her dog roam in her fenced in yard, just as neighbors have right to garden. What they don't have the right to do is throw water or anything else into her yard.

[westwoodmom04]

Well you've been given several good solutions to the problem here - so I don't think walking him is the only option but YES you do have the responsibility as an animal owner to keep him under control and that includes barking. Obviously it bothers your neighbors and to stop it they did something that bothered you. If you don't want them to spray your dog don't put hour dog in the position to be sprayed. Simple concept.

For the record with my neighbors bark happy dogs I went straight to the city and made a nuscience complaint about it. Police came put agreed with me and fined them $50 a dog. They can be fined anytime I call and the city can remove the dogs for excess complaints. Would you prefer that route? That's the equivalent to your HOA complaint.

Your dog does not have the right to bark at the neighbors while they are quietly gardening

If you called and dogs weren't barking when police arrived, what would police do? There is a difference between incessant barking and a dog going out to pee and barking for a few minutes. I'm also betting your situation is a little different re size of lots,e tc. . .

[KLD313]

I just don't understand this insistence that people have some sort of right to never hear something they find annoying. You know what sound I hate? The d@mn neighbor kid with his relentless thump thump thump thump thump thumpthumpthumpthumpthump of the basketball. And his toddler brother screeching. But guess what? There are sounds in this world and I don't like all of them.

Yes this exactly! Oh the thumping basketball is the worse. It's crazy that the OP is even having to deal with this. It's a dog, dogs bark. My dogs bark. My neighbors pet them through the fence and I live on a one acre lot. My neighbors dog also barks and yeah it's really loud and deep and annoying but I'm not going to do anything about it. I do go out and yell if the dogs fence fight but otherwise oh well. I think the difference here is that all my surrounding neighbors have dogs. The OP's neighbors have a right to use their yard just as much as she has a right to let her dog out in hers.

Maybe this thread is just bothering me because I just put my dog that barked a lot to sleep last week.

[HannaAddict]

Barking for a few minutes is rude. Our dog barks at the mailman and UPS from inside the house. We don't just let her go on and on and she doesn't bark outside for minutes on end. I guarantee if a poster had posted about 100 lb boxer rushing a fence and barking at the poster 's adorable children, all heck would break loose with folks suggesting falling the HOA, the police, and drafting snarky ly worded letters of complaint to the evil neighbors whose dog dares to bark. There are many more reasonable solutions for the dog owner than the neighbors. Get a dog run, place it strategically on your large lot and then you will also avoid the poop minefield that the lovely yard may have. That could be against regs too unless you clean it up daily.

[kdeunc]

Maybe this thread is just bothering me because I just put my dog that barked a lot to sleep last week.

I am so sorry!:hug:

[TwinFoxes]

I guarantee if a poster had posted about 100 lb boxer rushing a fence and barking at the poster 's adorable children, all heck would break loose with folks suggesting falling the HOA, the police, and drafting snarky ly worded letters of complaint to the evil neighbors whose dog dares to bark. There are many more reasonable solutions for the dog owner than the neighbors. Get a dog run, place it strategically on your large lot and then you will also avoid the poop minefield that the lovely yard may have. That could be against regs too unless you clean it up daily.

I think it would actually split along the same lines. Someone posted I think last year about a dog in his garage with the owner scaring her kids (not barking, just he was a large dog walking around). Pretty much the same reaction...people saying it's their house they can have their dog in their garage, others saying a responsible dog owner would take the dog in the house.

Ashley-Ann, I think if your neighbors are violating the noise code, and the police agree, they've been put on notice and need to curtail their dog's barking. I do think they should be fined if they're violating an ordinance. Or move to a more dog friendly place. I think people need to know and follow the existing regulations, not make up and enforce their own ideas about what's acceptable.

[arivecchi]

I just don't understand this insistence that people have some sort of right to never hear something they find annoying. You know what sound I hate? The d@mn neighbor kid with his relentless thump thump thump thump thump thumpthumpthumpthumpthump of the basketball. And his toddler brother screeching. But guess what? There are sounds in this world and I don't like all of them. Exactly! Kids can be way more annoying and louder than dogs! As a PP noted, what ordinances typically describe as nuisance barking is a lot more than a couple of minutes. I'm all for responsible dog ownership, but a dog will bark, just like babies will cry. Period.


Perfectly said. We live in a neighborhood with one to two acre lots and most are fenced. Until recently, we did not have a dog (we do now) but ninety percent of our neighbors do. There is almost always a dog barking somewhere in the neighborhood. I consider it white noise. Unless a dog is barking incessantly (and that'S more than three minutes) or is running loose through the neighborhood, there isIMO no room for complaints. Most people move to neighborhoods like this precisely because they are pet friendly. Stating the obvious. If you don't like noises, move to a huge parcel. Problem solved.

OP, I think you are being incredibly reasonable. You've now communicated with them. I think the follow up note is a great idea given the language barriers. I would definitely get bushes planted along that fence more to block their ugly garden than anything else.

[westwoodmom04]

Barking for a few minutes is rude. Our dog barks at the mailman and UPS from inside the house. We don't just let her go on and on and she doesn't bark outside for minutes on end. I guarantee if a poster had posted about 100 lb boxer rushing a fence and barking at the poster 's adorable children, all heck would break loose with folks suggesting falling the HOA, the police, and drafting snarky ly worded letters of complaint to the evil neighbors whose dog dares to bark. There are many more reasonable solutions for the dog owner than the neighbors. Get a dog run, place it strategically on your large lot and then you will also avoid the poop minefield that the lovely yard may have. That could be against regs too unless you clean it up daily.

Relocating the garden seems the easiest solution to me, or learning to live with the dog bark for five minutes three times a day without throwing water, even easier. I personally wouldn't want a dog run on my property.

[HannaAddict]

Relocating the garden seems the easiest solution to me, or learning to live with the dog bark for five minutes three times a day without throwing water, even easier. I personally wouldn't want a dog run on my property.

Wow. That is actually hilarious. Someone should move their actual garden in their property - rather than train a dog not to bark? What has the world come to that we are all so important and can't get along with others? A garden is hard to move, depends on sunlight, etc. They may be using other parts if their property too. And it won't even stop the problem I bet. If the dog wants contact and sees them in their yard, I would bet he will want to bark.

Remember, these people didn't come to the poster complaining about the dog, they squirted him with a garden hose. Dog is fine, it is the OP who is upset about this happening to the pooch on "her property." I'm a lawyer and thought you were too, in our area telling a homeowner to move their garden or whatever they are doing on their property wouldn't pass the smell test and would get laughed out of court. Why doesn't the OP ignore the hose while working on telling the dog "no bark."

[LBW]

Wow. That is actually hilarious. Someone should move their actual garden in their property - rather than train a dog not to bark? What has the world come to that we are all so important and can't get along with others? A garden is hard to move, depends on sunlight, etc. They may be using other parts if their property too. And it won't even stop the problem I bet. If the dog wants contact and sees them in their yard, I would bet he will want to bark.

I believe the OP described the garden as new -- meaning the neighbors chose to put it in along the fence knowing that there was a large dog in the adjoining property. That was a stupidly obnoxious choice on their part. The OP should not have to change her routine or accept that they're now spraying her dog because of the neighbors' choice.

[NJ_Mom2011]

Before everyone starts hitting the barricades on this issue, it could well be that the OP solved it by talking to the son-in-law. I am a fan of planting privacy bushes if things don't seem to be working out.

I don't know why it made me smile when I read that the dog thought it was a game by being sprayed by the hose. Shows the innocence of dogs?

[Pennylane]

Wow. That is actually hilarious. Someone should move their actual garden in their property - rather than train a dog not to bark? What has the world come to that we are all so important and can't get along with others? A garden is hard to move, depends on sunlight, etc. They may be using other parts if their property too. And it won't even stop the problem I bet. If the dog wants contact and sees them in their yard, I would bet he will want to bark.

Remember, these people didn't come to the poster complaining about the dog, they squirted him with a garden hose. Dog is fine, it is the OP who is upset about this happening to the pooch on "her property." I'm a lawyer and thought you were too, in our area telling a homeowner to move their garden or whatever they are doing on their property wouldn't pass the smell test and would get laughed out of court. Why doesn't the OP ignore the hose while working on telling the dog "no bark."

I would never suggest that they move their garden and I have no intention on taking them to court. I would never want to do that in a million years. But I also expect them to respect me and my rights to allow my dog on my property. I don't mind them sitting there all day long. Like I said before, my dog is very well trained and doesn't normally bark, but since that is where they have chosen to put their garden, they are going to have to deal with it once or twice a day. I'm not building a run for him, oh and FYI my yard is not a mine field. I pick up everyday and he actually is TRAINED to poop in the same one section of the yard.

You seem very angry about this and I'm not sure why as I don't think I am being mean, snarky , or unreasonable at all.

Ann

[squimp]

I am glad you went over and spoke to them. Hopefully that will help the situation. If they don't stop, I honestly would put up some bushes or something to hide them from your view. I would not call the police or the HOA - in my view this situation is not that serious, why can't neighbors just work this out. Why do we need laws and the authorities to tell us how to behave with our neighbors? If you see them spraying the dog and you don't want them to do it, tell them to stop, catch them in the act.

[KLD313]

I am so sorry!:hug:

Aww, thanks!

[daisysmom]

YES you do have the responsibility as an animal owner to keep him under control and that includes barking.
Your dog does not have the right to bark at the neighbors while they are quietly gardening

Her responsibibility under the law is most likely met by the fact that she keeps her dog fenced. And as long as her dog is not breaking the legal noise ordinance, barking is not illegal. Otherwise (assuming her HOA laws are stricter than we are all assuming) her neighbors do not have a right to quiet gardening.

[arivecchi]

OP, you are being totally reasonable and I'm impressed that you are so even keeled and respectful here in spite of a couple of mean spirited posts.

I wish I lived closer. I would bring my scary looking 150+ pound dog over for a doggy playdate to really give those neighbors something to complain about! :tongue5:

[westwoodmom04]

Wow. That is actually hilarious. Someone should move their actual garden in their property - rather than train a dog not to bark? What has the world come to that we are all so important and can't get along with others? A garden is hard to move, depends on sunlight, etc. They may be using other parts if their property too. And it won't even stop the problem I bet. If the dog wants contact and sees them in their yard, I would bet he will want to bark.

Remember, these people didn't come to the poster complaining about the dog, they squirted him with a garden hose. Dog is fine, it is the OP who is upset about this happening to the pooch on "her property." I'm a lawyer and thought you were too, in our area telling a homeowner to move their garden or whatever they are doing on their property wouldn't pass the smell test and would get laughed out of court. Why doesn't the OP ignore the hose while working on telling the dog "no bark."

Did you read the thread or are you just interested in responding to my post as viciously as possible? The garden is new and according to OP, not in compliance with HOA requirements. Most rational people do not respond to a barking dog behind a fence (who is only outside for less than 15 minutes at a time) by shooting water at it; they just learn to live with the momentary annoyance.

OP, I think the suggestion of planting shrubs is a helpful one unless you think that will just further attract your dog to the area.

[bluestar2]

I don't think it is reasonable to have a big dog run up to neighbors working quietly in their own yard as soon as it is let out and bark at them for 3 minutes straight, especially if it is territorial barking which tends to sound aggressive. It is very different than hearing dogs barking at random noises intermittently around the neighborhood. You might consider going out with him on a leash up to the fence to talk to the neighbors in a friendly manner. Maybe bring some treats for the neighbors to throw to him so he doesn't see them as a threat and hopefully he will get used to them being out there. It's worth a try. I think the longer he barks at them, the harder the habit will be to break.

[daisysmom]

Wow. That is actually hilarious. Someone should move their actual garden in their property - rather than train a dog not to bark? What has the world come to that we are all so important and can't get along with others? A garden is hard to move, depends on sunlight, etc. They may be using other parts if their property too. And it won't even stop the problem I bet. If the dog wants contact and sees them in their yard, I would bet he will want to bark.

Remember, these people didn't come to the poster complaining about the dog, they squirted him with a garden hose. Dog is fine, it is the OP who is upset about this happening to the pooch on "her property." I'm a lawyer and thought you were too, in our area telling a homeowner to move their garden or whatever they are doing on their property wouldn't pass the smell test and would get laughed out of court. Why doesn't the OP ignore the hose while working on telling the dog "no bark."

I am a lawyer too, and I find your post "actually hilarious". I live on 2 acres, with a fenced in backyard, and I would never put in a dog run. If I had OP's neighbors, I would call the police by now, they have sprayed her animal on her property twice. YOu are an attorney -- you know property law. If the noice ordinance laws aren't being broken, OPs dog can do whatever he pleases. And even if the ordinaces are broken, the neighbors are not allowed to trespass by spraying water or anything else on OP's yard (or dog). I do agree with you that no one can tell those neighbors to move their garden and that is their right too, but neither can they insist on any coralling of the dog.

OP ignore the hose?? It is infringing on her property, that's why. She bought the property and has rights to it. The other neighbors have no right to spray her property.

You are wrong about getting laughed out of court. I know several judges who would follow general property law here and not allow trespass.

[Kindra178]

Wow. That is actually hilarious. Someone should move their actual garden in their property - rather than train a dog not to bark? What has the world come to that we are all so important and can't get along with others? A garden is hard to move, depends on sunlight, etc. They may be using other parts if their property too. And it won't even stop the problem I bet. If the dog wants contact and sees them in their yard, I would bet he will want to bark.

Remember, these people didn't come to the poster complaining about the dog, they squirted him with a garden hose. Dog is fine, it is the OP who is upset about this happening to the pooch on "her property." I'm a lawyer and thought you were too, in our area telling a homeowner to move their garden or whatever they are doing on their property wouldn't pass the smell test and would get laughed out of court. Why doesn't the OP ignore the hose while working on telling the dog "no bark."

HA, as a lawyer, you know full well shooting water on another's land is trespass. They are breaking the law by shooting water. The fact that they are shooting water at the dog most likely breaks additional laws, in addition to trespass to chattel. Shooting water at a dog may enrage some dogs and cause unwanted behaviors to other strangers. Why are you missing the point?

[Kindra178]

OP, you are being totally reasonable and I'm impressed that you are so even keeled and respectful here in spite of a couple of mean spirited posts.

I wish I lived closer. I would bring my scary looking 150+ pound dog over for a doggy playdate to really give those neighbors something to complain about! :tongue5:

Can my Rottie join the mix?

[BunnyBee]

What about the gardeners' rights to quiet enjoyment? The dog barking is a noise nuisance. Let's sue everybody!!! I think even in a law school exam, two squirts with a garden hose through a very open fence is not going to fly in any jurisdiction as trespass.

[daisysmom]

trespass to chattell..., ?

Great recollection of Property Law 101. I tried to google what other crime or tort this could be but couldn't find it in my haste... you nailed it!

[speo]

I think the neighbors are acting out of fear of the dog and are not just annoyed. There is a difference. Many posts here are describing instances of being annoyed. I understand why they would be scared. It would be great if OP could somehow alleviate this a bit more. The addition of bushes are a nice idea, but they will still cost money.

However, I agree with the above posts. While it would be nice for OP to help fix it in some way, I do not see why she has to. What she has described is in no way excessive barking. I do not see how she has done anything wrong legally. The neighbors have though. They are not allowed to impact her property. They have sprayed water and hit a dog with water. That should not be allowed.

[arivecchi]

What about the gardeners' rights to quiet enjoyment? The dog barking is a noise nuisance. Let's sue everybody!!! I think even in a law school exam, two squirts with a garden hose through a very open fence is not going to fly in any jurisdiction as trespass. There is no such thing. If you live in a neighborhood, you will not get quiet 100% of the time. That is simply an unreasonable expectation - let alone a right.

These neighbors brought the problem upon themselves by planting their garden right next to OP's pool (bizarre) and then squirting the dog, instead of talking to OP about it.

[arivecchi]

I am a lawyer too, and I find your post "actually hilarious". I live on 2 acres, with a fenced in backyard, and I would never put in a dog run. If I had OP's neighbors, I would call the police by now, they have sprayed her animal on her property twice. YOu are an attorney -- you know property law. If the noice ordinance laws aren't being broken, OPs dog can do whatever he pleases. And even if the ordinaces are broken, the neighbors are not allowed to trespass by spraying water or anything else on OP's yard (or dog). I do agree with you that no one can tell those neighbors to move their garden and that is their right too, but neither can they insist on any coralling of the dog.

OP ignore the hose?? It is infringing on her property, that's why. She bought the property and has rights to it. The other neighbors have no right to spray her property.

You are wrong about getting laughed out of court. I know several judges who would follow general property law here and not allow trespass. Great post. I had similar thoughts when I read that post but my recollection of property law is quite rusty!

[twowhat?]

I'd be really tempted to have my phone video camera on next time they are out there and you let the dog out. I absolutely don't think it's OK for them to use their hose. If they were truly that terrified of your dog, they'd have come to talk to you about it - they wouldn't sit out there and garden and then shoot your dog with their hose. That's just plain ridiculous. Plus hopefully in the video you can capture how the water spraying just ramps up the barking.

Not that I would do anything with the video but I'd certainly feel better HAVING it...just in case this really gets blown out of proportion. Do you have any neighbors against other parts of your fence that would vouch for you and the behavior of the dog?

Dogs will bark, just like kids will scream and yell and babies will cry. Yes, they have a right to garden out there, but you have the right to let your dog go out to potty, and it's not like you're leaving the dog there barking for the 6 hours that they garden each day. If they are out there, you let the dog pee and you take him back inside. You're already doing what's reasonable. Sigh. We live on a pretty small lot and yeah, you hear dogs barking. Neighbors are good and no one lets their dog bark incessantly but dogs WILL bark for a few min here and there and I WANT them to - it is a nice deterrent for any strangers walking through the neighborhood. We live in very quiet neighborhood but you WILL hear normal daily living noises, including dogs barking, lawnmowers, other yard equipment, children screaming while playing in the pools, basketballs bouncing, music from occasional parties, garage doors opening/closing, bangs and bumps and people drag trash cans in/out, etc.

So yeah, I'd get those privacy bushes started now! It's the right time to plant, while things are still dormant but will be gearing up for spring soon. Even without the dog I wouldn't be able to stand it to have neighbors looking right at your pool in the summers for 6 hours a day!!

What a PITA. OP, I hope the neighbors get the point and that you don't have to escalate this any further.

Oh and FWIW I'm sure they don't MEAN to hurt your dog and truly believe that they are "helping" the issue by "harmlessly teaching" the dog to stay away from that fence. All wrong assumptions, of course...but I'm sure their intention isn't to be evil. Still, they need to know it's not OK and that you're not OK with it - which you've taken care of. Next move is theirs.

[NJ_Mom2011]

OP, you are being totally reasonable and I'm impressed that you are so even keeled and respectful here in spite of a couple of mean spirited posts.

I wish I lived closer. I would bring my scary looking 150+ pound dog over for a doggy playdate to really give those neighbors something to complain about! :tongue5:

I think that OP has said several times that she won't sue. Hold off the law school hypos, fellow lawyers!

I have taken the OP's side, this elderly couple are in the wrong. But they sound like a slightly eccentric pair who wants to engage in the harmless pastime of gardening. They barely can speak English, and know they should be dragged into court? OP has just recently spoken to the couple's son-in-law, it very well may end up that the couple will start leaving the dog alone.

Btw, OP, the son-in-law was not blowing you off by saying that the couple may not listen to him. I think that he was trying to be honest with you. The same thing has happened to my husband and his Korean mother. Under a Confucian value system, young people are often not listened to by their elders. But right now, let us hope that they will listen to him.

[BunnyBee]

There is no such thing. If you live in a neighborhood, you will not get quiet 100% of the time. That is simply an unreasonable expectation - let alone a right.

These neighbors brought the problem upon themselves by planting their garden right next to OP's pool (bizarre) and then squirting the dog, instead of talking to OP about it.

Yes, those rights exist. That's why there are noise ordinances. The dog charged the fence and barked territorially at them. The dog was actually the instigator. If they're in FL, give the gardeners a gun and the dog a pack of Skittles, and it's more than justifiable homicide.

Are you saying the gardeners' property rights are limited by the fact that their neighbor has a dog? Every suburban garden I've ever seen has been along one side of the yard. I've never seen one planted in the middle. If the whole plot is an acre, the backyard is what, a 1/3 acre? They have the right to use every inch of their property. Their garden isn't bothering their neighbors.

Spraying the dog was stupid, but at this point, suing is a crazy suggestion. The elderly people have not squirted the dog since she asked them to stop. This is why people hate lawyers. And dogs!

[mommylamb]

Remember, these people didn't come to the poster complaining about the dog, they squirted him with a garden hose. Dog is fine, it is the OP who is upset about this happening to the pooch on "her property."

Do you think it is better for them to squirt the dog with the hose vs. complain to the OP about it? I imagine that it would have been a much better situation overall if the neighbors had approached OP and said that they were afraid of the dog and concerned about the barking and tried to problem solve with her. I bet the OP wouldn't have been nearly as upset if it had been addressed to her in a constructive manner vs spraying her dog (who I assume then comes into her house dripping wet) with their hose.

ETA: I am not a dog owner, and while I like other people's dogs, I am not a "dog person" per say. However, I would never in a million years consider spraying a dog that was barking for a few minutes a day on the other side of a fence where I knew it couldn't get to me. I may not like it, but I would suck it up. I live in a townhouse community, and maybe I'm just more accustomed to a live and let live philosophy because I am more used to density.

[chlobo]

Intermittent barking is something everyone is forced to listen to when they live in a neighborhood of houses. As others have noted above, live on a bigger parcel of land if don't want to hear others' noise.

I live on 2 acres. Should be plenty big bug if someone's dog it outside intermittently barking all day it gets annoying.

Not only that but I've had a lot of dogs visit my yard and even threaten my chickens (which are in a pen) because their owners feel that their dogs rights to roam the entire neighborhood is somehow greater than my right to my own property. If I started a "thing" with every dog owner whose dog visited my yard I'd be warring with half my neighborhood.

[daisysmom]

Yes, those rights exist. That's why there are noise ordinances. The dog charged the fence and barked territorially at them. The dog was actually the instigator. If they're in FL, give the gardeners a gun and the dog a pack of Skittles, and it's more than justifiable homicide.

Are you saying the gardeners' property rights are limited by the fact that their neighbor has a dog? Every suburban garden I've ever seen has been along one side of the yard. I've never seen one planted in the middle. If the whole plot is an acre, the backyard is what, a 1/3 acre? They have the right to use every inch of their property. Their garden isn't bothering their neighbors.



We have all assumed that OP's jurisdiction doesn't have a noise ordinance that would regulate 3 minutes of dog barking 3 times a day. Where I live, this would not violate a noise ordinance but you are correct, if it does violate the noise ordinance, all of the lawyers on here insisting on following the law would honor the noise ordinance.

The gardeners only have the right on their property. They don't have a right to activities not on their property (assuming that the noise ordinance has not been broken).

I am assuming that you were joking in very poor taste about it being justifiable homicide in Florida.

[daisysmom]

We have kids that play lacross and the sound of a lacross ball hitting the side of the house in which they live is annoying to me. I would never think it was my right to waterboard the children though.

While PP jokes about why people hate lawyers, even the non-lawyers need to learn to read and follow the laws. Frankly, if it were me, I would not file suit either. But I would sure as heck remind these neighbors that they are breaking the law and call the police unless they stop.

[chlobo]

I just had another thought. Do your dogs go out at the same time everyday? Maybe you could let the family know when you are going to let them out so they can move away from the garden during that time. If its short, as you mentioned, that shouldn't interrupt their gardening. Just a thought.

[twowhat?]

I just had another thought. Do your dogs go out at the same time everyday? Maybe you could let the family know when you are going to let them out so they can move away from the garden during that time. If its short, as you mentioned, that shouldn't interrupt their gardening. Just a thought.

It's a nice thought but in practice is completely unreasonable. Dog needs to be able to go out whenever it's convenient for owner. Just one example - if we're going out for lunch, dog needs to pee before we leave. OP's family can't reasonably accomodate that kind of request, and it wouldn't be fair anyway - they get to garden whenever they please but you have to keep your yard time to a rigid schedule? It wouldn't work.

Privacy shrubs FTW!!! LOL:)

[BunnyBee]

We have all assumed that OP's jurisdiction doesn't have a noise ordinance that would regulate 3 minutes of dog barking 3 times a day. Where I live, this would not violate a noise ordinance but you are correct, if it does violate the noise ordinance, all of the lawyers on here insisting on following the law would honor the noise ordinance.

The gardeners only have the right on their property. They don't have a right to activities not on their property (assuming that the noise ordinance has not been broken).

I am assuming that you were joking in very poor taste about it being justifiable homicide in Florida.

No, it's commentary on the sad state of affairs in our country. The son said his parents were scared and squirted the dog out of fear. You're advocating suing elderly people because a dog got wet. Dog was not harmed, wasn't even bothered by the water. The old people weren't spraying the dog to torment him or try to hurt him. But you would sue scared old people for trespass instead of trying to figure out a way to help ameliorate the situation amicably. It doesn't make any sense. Self defense is a defense against common law trespass to persons, property, and chattel.

[westwoodmom04]

No, it's commentary on the sad state of affairs in our country. The son said his parents were scared and squirted the dog out of fear. You're advocating suing elderly people because a dog got wet. Dog was not harmed, wasn't even bothered by the water. The old people weren't spraying the dog to torment him or try to hurt him. But you would sue scared old people for trespass instead of trying to figure out a way to help ameliorate the situation amicably. It doesn't make any sense. Self defense is a defense against common law trespass to persons, property, and chattel.

It's not self-defense if there is a fence between them and the dog; if the dog came onto their property-- that's a different story.

I also don't think anyone is advocating to sue at this point in time -- only if the situation continues to escalate and OP went to the property owner in an attempt to avoid that.

If they were really so terrified of the dog, why plant the garden there? They also have a large lot with at least two other "edges" to plant against.

[ilfaith]

Good fences make good neighbors.

Honestly, I think putting up some sort of privacy hedge is your best bet in this situation. I presume the gardeners next door selected that spot for their planting because it provided the best mix of sun and/or shade for whatever they were growing, and perhaps because the existing fence would be good for their climbing plants. I am certain their intent was not to antagonize your dog. I am also guessing that the dog is drawn to the area near the garden because, not despite, the fact that there are people there (or is that where he always did his business prior to the garden?). Of course if he actually enjoys getting sprayed, he will only keep going back to that part of the fence for the game.

[specialp]

For those who think this is okay, is it okay for OP to water the neighbor’s garden excessively or toss salt in it or whatever because she thinks it is ugly and wants to take care of it herself?

OP, I’ve stayed out of this because it had gotten so far off-track with cruelty, lawsuits as a first response, opinions on HOAs, etc., As someone who (a) has a garden at the property line (although no neighbors border it) because my 3 story house blocks the sun and shadows the rest of the yard for a good bit of the day but the back portion is sunny the whole time and can understand their placement; and (b) am a dog owner myself and a dog lover but reluctantly did go to the mats with neighbors at our old house over their barking dog, the end result being that they got rid of the dog and gave it to a relative, you are handling this very well and are not in the wrong. Even assuming you are underestimating the amount of time and your dog is out there for 10 minutes 3x a day, that isn’t a nuisance, that is suburbia. [ETA: and you did what they should have done in the first place which is have a conversation about it a problem, whether it is reasonable or perceived problem. Even with a language barrier, I can point to a dog. One does not take matters into their own hands and trespass onto another's property, even if it isn't harming the dog.]

What we dealt with were dogs who were left outside alone for a minimum of 14 hours a day, sometimes longer as their owners did not always come home at night and they would be left outside all day and night. All were fine (bored and neglected perhaps) except for one dog who barked for hours upon hours. All of us could tell when he was eating because it was the only time it stopped and those 5 minutes were heaven. We planted bushes, installed an anti bark thing on our property, one neighbor asked if he could feed the dog treats to see if it would help, we spoke with the dog owners and confirmed that conversation in writing, and 3 other neighbors called the police several times. These were dog owners from hell who wouldn’t budge or give an inch. They would lock the dogs in the house for three weeks after a complaint and then repeat the pattern. My husband spoke to them a 2nd time and after that and the police also visited them again that day (not at our request) and they got rid of the dogs at that point. That is a nuisance. What I never did was squirt the dog and even the neighbor who wanted to feed the dog asked permission first! I didn't get upset at 3, 5, 10, or even 15 minutes of barking because that is life in the suburbs. We got upset at hours of non-stop barking that went into the night. Furthermore, we weren't mad at the dogs. Every single one of us in the neighborhood owned a dog. We felt sorry for them. We were mad at the owners.

[kara97210]

I don't know why it made me smile when I read that the dog thought it was a game by being sprayed by the hose. Shows the innocence of dogs?

That's what is confusing to me about some of the posts in this thread. We are big gardeners (my mom is a master gardener) and the water pressure we use for gardening is really gentle (more gentle than most sprinkler systems). Its nowhere near the setting you would use to pressure clean a patio. During the summer, when I'm watering our tomatoes, my kids (who are 2 and 4) fight over who gets to get sprayed with the hose. It's not painful at all.

I absolutely get that it would be annoying to have a neighbor intrude on your yard this way, but find it bizarre that people are comparing getting sprayed with a hose (on a gentle setting that the dog seems to enjoy) with water boarding and poisoning.

Hopefully OP can work this out really easily with the neighbors. I like the idea of walking the dog over and introducing it to the neighbors and also putting up some privacy bushes (mainly to block your pool from their view). We've had a lot of neighbors and, in terms of not ideal neighbors, I think quiet elderly gardeners with a kind of messy garden isn't awful. I would take that over loud, late night partiers in a heartbeat. Good luck!

[TwinFoxes]

I live on 2 acres. Should be plenty big bug if someone's dog it outside intermittently barking all day it gets annoying.

Not only that but I've had a lot of dogs visit my yard and even threaten my chickens (which are in a pen) because their owners feel that their dogs rights to roam the entire neighborhood is somehow greater than my right to my own property. If I started a "thing" with every dog owner whose dog visited my yard I'd be warring with half my neighborhood.

But that's not even close to what's happening here. I (obviously) love dogs, but if there were dogs out roaming the neighborhood and harassing chickens, I'd call animal control. And I don't think dogs should be out all day barking.


Even the non-lawyers need to learn to read and follow the laws. Frankly, if it were me, I would not file suit either. But I would sure as heck remind these neighbors that they are breaking the law and call the police unless they stop.

Exactly. I'm not an attorney, but I know the laws that effect me as a property owner. I don't go around trying to enforce ones that don't exist.

[wellyes]

For those who think this is okay, is it okay for OP to water the neighbor’s garden excessively or toss salt in it or whatever because she thinks it is ugly and wants to take care of it herself?


It seems like the only issue is that OP doesn't want to deal with a wet dog coming back into her house. Which is fair enough, but, it's not the equivalent to destroying a garden. Or waterboarding, for pete's sake. (Not that the OP has said any such thing). It's not OK to spray the dog but let's not exaggerate the level of assault & battery here.

[arivecchi]

Yes, those rights exist. That's why there are noise ordinances. The dog charged the fence and barked territorially at them. The dog was actually the instigator. If they're in FL, give the gardeners a gun and the dog a pack of Skittles, and it's more than justifiable homicide.

Are you saying the gardeners' property rights are limited by the fact that their neighbor has a dog? Every suburban garden I've ever seen has been along one side of the yard. I've never seen one planted in the middle. If the whole plot is an acre, the backyard is what, a 1/3 acre? They have the right to use every inch of their property. Their garden isn't bothering their neighbors.

Spraying the dog was stupid, but at this point, suing is a crazy suggestion. The elderly people have not squirted the dog since she asked them to stop. This is why people hate lawyers. And dogs!No. You misread my post. No one has the right to be completely undisturbed in their property which is surrounded by neighbors 100% of the time. That is just not happening, which is why the noise ordinances come into play - to regulate the amount of noise that is acceptable. I also did not suggest suing at all so not sure why you quoted me as I did not mention that. I agree with the steps that OP has taken so far and I would not resort to a lawsuit unless things were way more serious than what has happened here.

[doberbrat]

Why doesn't the OP ignore the hose while working on telling the dog "no bark."

I dont think its possible OR reasonable to expect a dog to never bark. Especially if he sees people by 'his' fence. OP is doing what she can. She immediately goes out, tells the dog quiet and calls him back in.

Its great that the dog thinks of it as a game. In the general scheme of things, its not a big deal unless the dog is like my doberman was - being squirted by the hose would send her running in a "the sky is falling" - she did NOT like getting wet! I would be livid b/c having a longhaired dog, being squirted by a hose means I'd have to blow dry him to ensure he didnt matt.

Trying to look at it from the other side, yes, it would be annoying to have a big dog charge me whenever I'm outside gardening. I can even understand them being scared. But presumably when they were setting up the garden, they saw the dog? And should probably have thought of this?? I think its their problem to solve - without turning the hose on the dog. They can ignore it, go inside when the dog comes out, move the garden, put up shrubs, heck, they can even file a noise complaint if they like (which I cant imagine would hold up).

OP has seen it, done the appropriate thing by asking them not to repeat it. Hopefully, they will respect that and this will be the end of it.

[Ceepa]

The neighbors should be able to garden without a large dog running at them, even with a fence, barking at them for minutes on end possibly a few times a day.
OP should be able to let her dog run into the fenced yard, do his business and be a dog.
But that's not always possible, and when the two are next door to each other some compromise is necessary.

OP did the right thing by bringing up the matter with the neighbors rather than going first to HOA, police or lawyer (what?!). I would consider the privacy bushes not only because of the dog, but it seems more useful now that the neighbors are outside gardening against the fence every day.

If the gardening neighbors keep spraying the dog and this is a battle OP is choosing to have, OP should walk right up to them and ask them directly to stop. Sure, it could cause bad blood but it might be the most effective way to stop this behavior.

[Snow mom]

It seems like the only issue is that OP doesn't want to deal with a wet dog coming back into her house. Which is fair enough, but, it's not the equivalent to destroying a garden. Or waterboarding, for pete's sake. (Not that the OP has said any such thing). It's not OK to spray the dog but let's not exaggerate the level of assault & battery here.

There's an additional issue which is that the neighbors are potentially creating a behavioral issue with the dog. There was a thread on GF last week where a neighbor was continually antagonizing the posters dog through the fence. Then when they were out for a walk the neighbor approached the dog (which was leashed and giving warning signs that walking up to it wasn't a good idea) and the dog bit the neighbor. Honestly, from the posters description the other party was really in the wrong all the way around but you can guess whose problem it is once the dog has bitten someone.

It isn't a good idea to antagonize a fenced dog and people should not be allowed to create a situation where a dog, even a well-trained dog, is going to react like a dog. I understand why OP is upset. If the neighbors have a problem with the dog for five minutes they should go inside. That's what we always did to keep the peace with our neighbors. Yes, we both have the right to enjoy our property but sometimes those rights are mutually exclusive and there has to be compromise. If they are out there hours on end and the dog can't be out at all during that time that's not compromise.

[HannaAddict]

Relax. I was tongue in cheek about the lawyers getting involved! Just found it rather hilarious another lawyer would suggest a property owner needs to move their garden to avoid an adjoining property owner's barking dog. That's all, it wasn't a legal analysis or suggestion of a suit! It just isn't reasonable - and not something that would hold up for HOA scrutiny. Seriously, one of the most contentious, crazy cases I had in criminal law was over a HOA. Involved video taping each other, cops taking down people at meetings, it was nuts. My client won, but it was ugly and hard fought.

[kdeunc]

There's an additional issue which is that the neighbors are potentially creating a behavioral issue with the dog. There was a thread on GF last week where a neighbor was continually antagonizing the posters dog through the fence. Then when they were out for a walk the neighbor approached the dog (which was leashed and giving warning signs that walking up to it wasn't a good idea) and the dog bit the neighbor. Honestly, from the posters description the other party was really in the wrong all the way around but you can guess whose problem it is once the dog has bitten someone.

It isn't a good idea to antagonize a fenced dog and people should not be allowed to create a situation where a dog, even a well-trained dog, is going to react like a dog. I understand why OP is upset. If the neighbors have a problem with the dog for five minutes they should go inside. That's what we always did to keep the peace with our neighbors. Yes, we both have the right to enjoy our property but sometimes those rights are mutually exclusive and there has to be compromise. If they are out there hours on end and the dog can't be out at all during that time that's not compromise.

This! This is exactly our issue. Our neighbors have tormented our dog for 3 years. There is no way she will not bark at them now. She sees a threat and she is correct. They started out spraying with water, then vinegar, then their grandchildren stood at our fence screaming at the dog, then they began walking their new dog on a leash right up to our fence and down the fence line to potty. The fence line is on our property. When their dog charged the fence(off leash) our female came through one of the pickets. You bait a dog long enough they will act like a dog. The dog behaviorist we hired to the tune of $500 said your dogs are fine it is the neighbor that needs training! Do I think the OPs neighbors will go this far, probably not but while it is "just spraying" today it most definitely can cause behavioral problems that may or may not be correctable.

[specialp]

It seems like the only issue is that OP doesn't want to deal with a wet dog coming back into her house. Which is fair enough, but, it's not the equivalent to destroying a garden. Or waterboarding, for pete's sake. (Not that the OP has said any such thing). It's not OK to spray the dog but let's not exaggerate the level of assault & battery here.

That was me, not Kara. Not sure why it quoted that way.

I wasn’t trying to exaggerate the injury. The exaggeration in this thread is what bothered me. This isn’t animal cruelty, sue worthy, akin to spraying kids, water boarding, etc., and I think it is ridiculous to suggest the others move their garden or that the people were terrified. I stated why my garden is in the exact same place since people thought that was so stupid. I said later there was no harm to the dog, but that isn’t the point. You talk to your neighbors if you have a problem with their property. You give them a chance to either fix it or be a jerk or you alter your own property in some way to deal with it if you choose, but you do not deal with their property on your own. I would not spray someone’s dog that is in their yard because it is their dog and in their yard (not to mention it is pointless). If it gets outside of it’s yard, that is different. I was trying to put the shoe on the other foot; that if the garden was the problem, OP would not be in the right if she did something to their side of the line. I couldn’t come up with a gardening example which was as pointless and useless as spraying a dog with water.

[mmommy]

This thread is fascinating. I'm not really sure what I think the "correct" solution is about the dog and the gardeners, but I really feel like I'm learning something about humanity.
OP, I'm glad you opened the lines of communication, and I hope you find that leads to a solution for you.

[justlearning]

ETA that after writing this post, I started reading through the thread and realize that some of this is redundant and some probably wrong advice (I don't know much about dogs so didn't realize how harmful it could be to let the spraying continue, even if your dog seems to enjoy it). Understand that it's against board rules to delete post so keeping it here...

I haven't read all of the 186 posts in this thread but wanted to say that some people believe that spraying water at a dog is an effective means for training it to stop barking. I've oftentimes seen our neighbor spraying his dog with a water bottle when she starts barking. Our prior neighbors had 3 large dogs (one was a boxer) who would spend hours outside (doggy door and owners both worked) and would bark nonstop for the entire time my kids would be outside. When I talked with my neighbor about it, she told me to spray her dogs with water if they were barking. I never did that, though, because I was scared of the dogs and afraid that they would retaliate by jumping over the fence at us. If you google dog barking and water bottle, you'll see plenty of info about some who used to advise it but no longer do and some who still do (usually with puppies, though). My point is that it's quite possible that your neighbor's in-laws are not trying to assault your dog but rather trying to "help" your dog learn not to bark (obviously not working since he enjoys it). Perhaps they previously had a dog that did stop barking when sprayed with water? Of course, we all hate it when others undermine our role and try to parent our kids (e.g., by lecturing them if they're acting up in a store) but I have tried to show graciousness in my response when this has happened, especially with older individuals. If your dog's enjoying it, why not let it keep happening? Eventually your neighbors may realize that they're being trained by your dog to play with them rather than your dog being trained to stop barking.

[daisysmom]

ETA that after writing this post, I started reading through the thread and realize that some of this is redundant and some probably wrong advice (I don't know much about dogs so didn't realize how harmful it could be to let the spraying continue, even if your dog seems to enjoy it). Understand that it's against board rules to delete post so keeping it here...

I haven't read all of the 186 posts in this thread but wanted to say that some people believe that spraying water at a dog is an effective means for training it to stop barking. I've oftentimes seen our neighbor spraying his dog with a water bottle when she starts barking. Our prior neighbors had 3 large dogs (one was a boxer) who would spend hours outside (doggy door and owners both worked) and would bark nonstop for the entire time my kids would be outside. When I talked with my neighbor about it, she told me to spray her dogs with water if they were barking. I never did that, though, because I was scared of the dogs and afraid that they would retaliate by jumping over the fence at us. If you google dog barking and water bottle, you'll see plenty of info about some who used to advise it but no longer do and some who still do (usually with puppies, though). My point is that it's quite possible that your neighbor's in-laws are not trying to assault your dog but rather trying to "help" your dog learn not to bark (obviously not working since he enjoys it). Perhaps they previously had a dog that did stop barking when sprayed with water? Of course, we all hate it when others undermine our role and try to parent our kids (e.g., by lecturing them if they're acting up in a store) but I have tried to show graciousness in my response when this has happened, especially with older individuals. If your dog's enjoying it, why not let it keep happening? Eventually your neighbors may realize that they're being trained by your dog to play with them rather than your dog being trained to stop barking.

Two differences here:
- spray water bottle is different than garden hose (that can be on "shower" or "jet" blast depending on what the neighbor's nozzle looks like)
- owner deciding to train dog/puppy is different than neighbor taking it upon themselves to "train" dog that isn't their own, on property that isn't their own

There might be lots of moral reasons that the neighbors sprayed a dog that wasn't their own (out of their own fear that dog would break down the wrought iron fence and attack them, to train the dog, because they thought the dog enjoyed it, etc.). Or that morally neighbors should get along, make concessions, etc. I don't disagree that those are valid moral sides issues to consider if you are trying to decide what OP may want to consider.

The legal fact is though, the neighbors do not have the right to trespass like this.

[MamaMolly]

I am SO bad. I keep reading this thread and the little punk in me wants to suggest that the OP spray her neighbors with water. NOT HELPFUL THOUGHTS, I know! :P

[KLD313]

I am SO bad. I keep reading this thread and the little punk in me wants to suggest that the OP spray her neighbors with water. NOT HELPFUL THOUGHTS, I know! :P

On don't feel bad because I've been thinking she should dump some kind of little bugs in their garden. Lol

[Pennylane]

I am SO bad. I keep reading this thread and the little punk in me wants to suggest that the OP spray her neighbors with water. NOT HELPFUL THOUGHTS, I know! :P




Ha, Ha! That might have been my first thought too :)

Ann

[lkoala]

This thread is fascinating. I'm not really sure what I think the "correct" solution is about the dog and the gardeners, but I really feel like I'm learning something about humanity.
OP, I'm glad you opened the lines of communication, and I hope you find that leads to a solution for you.

Agreed! It is very fascinating.

I have to wonder what our grandparents would have done in such a case.

[o_mom]

Agreed! It is very fascinating.

I have to wonder what our grandparents would have done in such a case.


Knowing my Grandfather... well, you don't want to know.

[lkoala]

Knowing my Grandfather... well, you don't want to know.

Ha ha... come to think of it, my Grandmother was not one to shy away from confrontation.

[s7714]

Any chance you could try to draw a truce by asking the neighbors to have a little meet and greet with your dog? If your dog "knows" the people would he be less likely to bark at them? Walk him over, let them get acquainted for a few minutes and all that jazz. Offer the neighbors a bag of dog treats to give to him if he comes up to the fence even? Heck, take the high road and offer THEM some human goodies over the situation! Maybe if they know you and your dog a little better, they'd be less likely to hose down Fido when he come running towards them. I know you said they don't seem that friendly and don't go out of their way to say hi, but it can't hurt to keep trying versus letting the situation escalate into something even worse for all parties involved. Kill 'em with kindness, right? ;) Just a thought.

[Tondi G]

I am SO bad. I keep reading this thread and the little punk in me wants to suggest that the OP spray her neighbors with water. NOT HELPFUL THOUGHTS, I know! :P

LOL! I thought the same thing. What if you set up one of those sprinkler/sprayers that they make as a deterrent for dogs that bark and positioned it so it would spray them in their yard? I think a cold spray at 8am might discourage them from being so close to your fence and spraying your dog! :)

That said ... I agree with the others that growing some hedges sound like a good idea. Hopefully the old folks will listen to the young man you spoke with and they won't spray your dog anymore. I might also get a camera set up to record the next time you let your dog out so that if they spray him again you have it on camera. Good Luck.

[indigo99]

I had a BIL from a culture that didn't like dogs much at all, and some individuals just don't like them. If you bring in the HOA or police then I'd be worried that these people might do something worse than spray some water on the dog. Maybe they'll figure out that the water isn't working well anyway and will stop on their own.

[justlearning]

Anyone else curious for another update? I am!

[twowhat?]

Anyone else curious for another update? I am!

Yes! Me!!

[Pennylane]

Anyone else curious for another update? I am!

Ha, ha! Well I do have an update but wasn't sure if I should bring this up again :) So this morning , 7 am, let the dog out . He was out for a minute, started barking and went to the fence. I called him in before they had a chance to squirt him. Fast forward to this afternoon, I see both of the parents out in the garden so I put the dog on a leash and walked him over to the fence. I said hello and told them that dog was very friendly but did start barking because they were so close to my yard. They just kept shaking their heads as I told them that I would keep an eye on him but to please not squirt him anymore! I don't know that they understood a word that I said but maybe now that I've made the effort to do that they will think twice before squirting him. It is supposed to be warm this weekend, so they should be out a lot !!

Ann

[twowhat?]

Ha, ha! Well I do have an update but wasn't sure if I should bring this up again :) So this morning , 7 am, let the dog out . He was out for a minute, started barking and went to the fence. I called him in before they had a chance to squirt him. Fast forward to this afternoon, I see both of the parents out in the garden so I put the dog on a leash and walked him over to the fence. I said hello and told them that dog was very friendly but did start barking because they were so close to my yard. They just kept shaking their heads as I told them that I would keep an eye on him but to please not squirt him anymore! I don't know that they understood a word that I said but maybe now that I've made the effort to do that they will think twice before squirting him. It is supposed to be warm this weekend, so they should be out a lot !!

Ann

OK, I think you've definitely gone above and beyond! Crossing fingers that they'll learn to just leave your dog alone and there will be peace for everyone. I betcha even though your dog barks, if they ignored him and continued to quietly garden he'd stop barking on his own after a few min. Our dog is VERY trigger-happy with barking (she's an anxious dog) but even she would stop after a few minutes ESPECIALLY if the person she is barking at is paying no attention and continuing with their quiet activity.

[kristenk]

My guess is that they were shaking their heads because they couldn't understand what you were saying.

[123LuckyMom]

My guess is that they were shaking their heads because they couldn't understand what you were saying.

That's my thinking, too. I hope it works out, though! You've certainly handled it very well.

[Pennylane]

My guess is that they were shaking their heads because they couldn't understand what you were saying.

Yes, that is what I thought also. They were smiling, although it might have been more like laughing at me because I was using lots of hand gestures to try to explain what I was saying :)

Ann

[BunnyBee]

Ha, ha! Well I do have an update but wasn't sure if I should bring this up again :) So this morning , 7 am, let the dog out . He was out for a minute, started barking and went to the fence. I called him in before they had a chance to squirt him. Fast forward to this afternoon, I see both of the parents out in the garden so I put the dog on a leash and walked him over to the fence. I said hello and told them that dog was very friendly but did start barking because they were so close to my yard. They just kept shaking their heads as I told them that I would keep an eye on him but to please not squirt him anymore! I don't know that they understood a word that I said but maybe now that I've made the effort to do that they will think twice before squirting him. It is supposed to be warm this weekend, so they should be out a lot !!

Ann

If they didn't understand you, maybe the dog did! We have used a leash and talking to neighbors in their yards to introduce our dogs to them and show the dogs it was "okay" for those people to be where they are. Praise him for being quiet, fill your pockets with cookies! :)

[kristenk]

Yes, that is what I thought also. They were smiling, although it might have been more like laughing at me because I was using lots of hand gestures to try to explain what I was saying :)


LOL! It's good that they were smiling. If you see them out gardening while the younger couple is home, I think it would be good to go over again and let the younger people translate.

It really sounds like this will all get resolved in a good way. (fingers crossed)